Author Shelly72 Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 The note talked about when he first met me and how he wanted to see me again. Then it talked about the first time he saw that I was abused, and he knew he needed to get me out of there before it got worse (which it did and he got me out just in time) it went over our relationship and talked about a lot of things we've been through, and how much he loves our babies. and he can't lose that. I know him better than anyone else and he can't be with anyone other than me. It asked me to please talk about all of this and please don't file, just give him one last chance to prove himself. It asked me to please talk to him tonight and he wants to go out and take me to the place we went on the night when he first found out what was really going on when I lived with my parents. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The note talked about when he first met me and how he wanted to see me again. Then it talked about the first time he saw that I was abused, and he knew he needed to get me out of there before it got worse (which it did and he got me out just in time) it went over our relationship and talked about a lot of things we've been through, and how much he loves our babies. and he can't lose that. I know him better than anyone else and he can't be with anyone other than me. It asked me to please talk about all of this and please don't file, just give him one last chance to prove himself. It asked me to please talk to him tonight and he wants to go out and take me to the place we went on the night when he first found out what was really going on when I lived with my parents. Yup, he really likes keeping you familiar with your history of abuse. Keeping you so indebted for being "rescued by him". Reminding you how weak you were before him so you'll believe you will be so without him. You just write him back a letter to let him know he will still be able to have his children in his life as that is the right thing to do; can't go back an unmake him their dad so why put the kids through that. But for pete's sake Shelly there isn't a one of us that doesn't deserve better than what you've been getting dished up by this guy. NO ONE WHO LOVES YOU WOULD CALL YOU STUPID AND TELL YOU THAT YOU CAN DO NO BETTER THAN THEM. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Furious Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The note talked about when he first met me and how he wanted to see me again. Then it talked about the first time he saw that I was abused, and he knew he needed to get me out of there before it got worse (which it did and he got me out just in time) it went over our relationship and talked about a lot of things we've been through, and how much he loves our babies. and he can't lose that. I know him better than anyone else and he can't be with anyone other than me. It asked me to please talk about all of this and please don't file, just give him one last chance to prove himself. It asked me to please talk to him tonight and he wants to go out and take me to the place we went on the night when he first found out what was really going on when I lived with my parents. This is coming from the man who cheated on you. The man who got the other woman pregnant and expects you to baby sit and who kisses and hugs the so-called ex OW right in front of your eyes. He is giving you a guilt trip...I think he is abusive, controlling and it's not love but ownership that he is fighting for. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The note talked about when he first met me and how he wanted to see me again. Then it talked about the first time he saw that I was abused, and he knew he needed to get me out of there before it got worse (which it did and he got me out just in time) it went over our relationship and talked about a lot of things we've been through, and how much he loves our babies. and he can't lose that. I know him better than anyone else and he can't be with anyone other than me. It asked me to please talk about all of this and please don't file, just give him one last chance to prove himself. It asked me to please talk to him tonight and he wants to go out and take me to the place we went on the night when he first found out what was really going on when I lived with my parents.Wow, he IS GOOD! He knows EXACTLY which heartstrings to pluck - how he rescued you (he's the good guy), how he had the hots for you (stroke your ego), how he's such a good dad (even though he cheated on THE WHOLE FAMILY), and how to take you RIGHT BACK TO THE ONE PLACE that he knows means something to you. Damn, he's good. I haven't seen many better manipulators than that. He tied it ALL up into one letter. Can I just comment on ONE little bitty thing, though? You say this:he can't be with anyone other than me but you gloss over the one factor that's affecting your whole issue - HE HAS BEEN WITH SOMEONE OTHER THAN YOU AND HE CONTINUES TO BE WITH HER. Hell, he just went and SCREWED her a couple days ago because you dared question his actions! Shelly, I know you love him, but come on! Show some respect for yourself. You're not that dumb. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
UpwardForward Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) I just can't imagine a real man continuing to rehearse all that he does for someone and to bring up the past in this manner i.e. all you two have been through together. He does seem to be holding you hostage. It does appear you have him shaking in his boots over possibility of divorce. If he was so devoted to you he wouldn't have had an affair and continue to kiss her upon visitation. .. So IMO that leaves: financial reasons among the possibilities. Edited July 9, 2012 by UpwardForward Link to post Share on other sites
Author Shelly72 Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 Wow, he IS GOOD! He knows EXACTLY which heartstrings to pluck - how he rescued you (he's the good guy), how he had the hots for you (stroke your ego), how he's such a good dad (even though he cheated on THE WHOLE FAMILY), and how to take you RIGHT BACK TO THE ONE PLACE that he knows means something to you. Damn, he's good. I haven't seen many better manipulators than that. He tied it ALL up into one letter. Can I just comment on ONE little bitty thing, though? You say this: but you gloss over the one factor that's affecting your whole issue - HE HAS BEEN WITH SOMEONE OTHER THAN YOU AND HE CONTINUES TO BE WITH HER. Hell, he just went and SCREWED her a couple days ago because you dared question his actions! Shelly, I know you love him, but come on! Show some respect for yourself. You're not that dumb. I did think that when I read it, how can he mean it if he WAS in fact with someone else a few days ago? Other than that it was a heartfelt letter, it may have been to remind me of my childhood, but it's clear it affected him too. If I typed out the whole letter this would probably be more clear. I don't think it's going to stop me though. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I did think that when I read it, how can he mean it if he WAS in fact with someone else a few days ago? Other than that it was a heartfelt letter, it may have been to remind me of my childhood, but it's clear it affected him too. If I typed out the whole letter this would probably be more clear. I don't think it's going to stop me though. He didn't offer ALL honesty about how he's participated in RUINING your marriage! He hasn't earned YOUR respect! If he was he'd be cutting all contact with his OW except for drop off and pick up time! No - he did opposite - he ran straight to her and slept with HER AGAIN! Sheez, he participates however HE WANTS and just expects you to take his terrible choices! What's worse is that you have accepted it in the PADT - but from her moving FORWARD - YOU DON'T NEED TO ANYMORE!!! Hesnot willing to respect you - BUT - YOU can sure as hell RESPECT YOURSELF by not living that way ANY LONGER! Roses!??? Give me a fricking break! He's not sorry he's done this - he's just sorry you are waking up to what a complete douche he's been to you... Google Narcissist... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Shelly72 Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 I did google it, and he does have some of the symptoms... that just makes me feel sooo stupid. I just wish I could interpret his letter better if I'm already this wrong about it. This is so hard. Link to post Share on other sites
UpwardForward Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I did google it, and he does have some of the symptoms... that just makes me feel sooo stupid. I just wish I could interpret his letter better if I'm already this wrong about it. This is so hard. Just listen to what he has to say, and his promises. You've waited this long to begin the D. A little longer may let you know for certain if he expects to change things. It doesn't seem there's a whole lot he can do about his son's visits. Just the manner in which H treats you. Perhaps H has spoken to his son regarding his behavior. Link to post Share on other sites
pink_sugar Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 My dad is narcasistic undiagnosed. He is always bragging about how he saved me and my brother's lives and expects us to appreciate HIM for it each birthday. I mean, seriously? You're a parent, you think you deserve a medal for giving you kid mouth to mouth after falling off a tricycle? Amonst many other things, he thinks he is so great and he just doesn't listen. When he and my mom were in marriage counseling, he told the counselor straight up he had no issues and that he was there to resolve my mom's problems. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Shelly72 Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 We waited until the kids were in bed to talk, he told me he would change. He was sorry for everything and he was ready to give up his ow. He has no plans of ever seeing her again only when he has to do things for their son. I told him he was too late, I can't do it anymore, I've looked the other way for 5 years now and nothing has changed. He sobbed hysterically, and begged for just one last shot we can do anything I want, move, go to counseling, whatever just one last time. It took me forever to get him to calm down, and get him to fall asleep. (he's staying in the other room) I've never seen him act like this. But I'm not going to back down 5 Link to post Share on other sites
pink_sugar Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) He needs to face the consequences. It's gone on too long to salvage the marriage. He's promised you before he'd stop seeing her right? But continued to do so? He's probably thinking of the assets he has to lose in divorce. House? Alimony? He's just waking up to it. Edited July 9, 2012 by pink_sugar Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I thought I heard the phone ring at 3am (I did, but it was in a dream) Counseling? Good, get on the phone this morning and set that up for today. People are always cancelling. My exW and I never had an issue getting in. He can call himself off from work today and let's go. After all, he said 'anything you want'. If he backpedals, make the call anyway, then one to your lawyer to get the papers filed and arrange to have him served at work Oh, also, if you and he are religious, count on him to play the religion card at some point too. Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I did google it, and he does have some of the symptoms... that just makes me feel sooo stupid. I just wish I could interpret his letter better if I'm already this wrong about it. This is so hard.Shelly, let me remind you what I wrote earlier. We give this advice to ALL people in ALL situations, because it works. ACTIONS are what matter, not words, not letters. All you should care about is actions. Actions like... NOT sleeping in when he knows his mistress is bringing over their son for YOU to watch NOT leaving you and HIS KIDS alone while he goes out to have fun with HER son ASKING you what it would take for you to give him a second chance and agreeing to them INSTANTLY VOWING to never speak to OW again except through emails that YOU monitor That would be good for a start. Has he done any of that? If he really really really loved you like he says, he'd never see OW again - EVER. He'd move heaven and earth to find a way that she and he never cross paths again, and he would come to you and ASK you if you could handle having his son by OW around. And, if you said no, he would RESPECT your wishes and stop letting him come over - because he loves YOU. He has done NONE of that, has he? Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 It doesn't seem there's a whole lot he can do about his son's visits. Say what? There is a LOT he can do about bringing the son of his affair into his wife's house. He just chooses not to, because Shelly simply hasn't known any better and has allowed him to dictate how their marriage is run. Now she is learning that SHE is an adult, a valuable human being, and worthy of JUST AS MUCH respect as she gives him. She says she would die for him. He won't even keep his you know what in his pants for her. Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 We waited until the kids were in bed to talk, he told me he would change. He was sorry for everything and he was ready to give up his ow. He has no plans of ever seeing her again only when he has to do things for their son. I told him he was too late, I can't do it anymore, I've looked the other way for 5 years now and nothing has changed. He sobbed hysterically, and begged for just one last shot we can do anything I want, move, go to counseling, whatever just one last time. It took me forever to get him to calm down, and get him to fall asleep. (he's staying in the other room) I've never seen him act like this. But I'm not going to back downI'm proud of you. Please know that I think you CAN have a life together - LATER. First, you need to be on your own for awhile just to learn what it means to depend on yourself. You've never done that, and, as a former abuse victim, I'm here to tell you that the A#1 way for you to grow as a human and become a better mother, partner, and person, is for you to learn to be ok with yourself, on your own. Second, HE needs you to be on your own so that he can start to see you as something more than his possession. He's taken you for granted for 20 years and he likely simply can't see you as a whole human being worthy of respect, since you've been giving in on everything all your adult life. HE needs to see what it's like to respect someone. You two can do that from separate residences. If it helps your daughter, let her see that you are doing this to improve things and that, you INTEND to take him back at some point, after he has gotten his issues under control and after YOU have learned to become a better well-rounded person. When you go to the lawyer, ask for a separation if your state allows it. Ask the lawyer help you set up some stipulations on what you'd require to take him back - things like him going to IC, you both going to MC, a legal document over what happens with the other child, legal protection from OW, stuff like that. Doing this will empower you and will also help you be more generous with him rather than reactionary, better for all concerned in the long run. Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 My dad is narcasistic undiagnosed. He is always bragging about how he saved me and my brother's lives and expects us to appreciate HIM for it each birthday. I mean, seriously? You're a parent, you think you deserve a medal for giving you kid mouth to mouth after falling off a tricycle? Amonst many other things, he thinks he is so great and he just doesn't listen. When he and my mom were in marriage counseling, he told the counselor straight up he had no issues and that he was there to resolve my mom's problems. The ONE time I got my husband to come to counseling with me, I had to lie to him and tell him (at the counselor's suggestion) that I needed him to come in and HELP me deal with some issues I couldn't handle on my own. Then, after a few sessions, where it became clear that all our issues were because of him, the MC stated that she needed to see him alone for awhile before she could see us as a couple. He cussed her out, stormed out of the room, and has refused to discuss it for 15 years. It was only a month ago that I told him he either goes to therapy or I'm divorcing him, that he has finally gone. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Temporary Separation is an option, dependent upon parameters of jurisdiction. OP, I'd look into that. In your case, it, meaning the court ordered details regarding the parameters for such separation, might change H's perspective on the whole matter. You'll need to talk with your lawyer about that. Such an avenue can add cost and complexity to the divorce process, if that's where it ends up, but may serve your needs better than a straight divorce. Be aware that, generally, such a petition may be required to include a parenting plan, financial plan, asset distribution plan and other aspects common to divorce petitions and can, once served upon the respondent, be contested in court. Time, cost and complexity. Examine your choices carefully. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 btw, Shelly, please don't start any more threads, ok? It's easier to follow you and for others to know your story if it's all in one place. Psst: I'm actually saying this to everyone, not just Shelly. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Yeah, co-signed and, further, I won't be surprised if the OP disappears. This was a commonality with a number of the 'friends' in my anecdotes when their H's found the right buttons to push. I call it 'poofing'. Happy to be wrong but all the signs are there. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I'm proud of you. Please know that I think you CAN have a life together - LATER. First, you need to be on your own for awhile just to learn what it means to depend on yourself. You've never done that, and, as a former abuse victim, I'm here to tell you that the A#1 way for you to grow as a human and become a better mother, partner, and person, is for you to learn to be ok with yourself, on your own. Second, HE needs you to be on your own so that he can start to see you as something more than his possession. He's taken you for granted for 20 years and he likely simply can't see you as a whole human being worthy of respect, since you've been giving in on everything all your adult life. HE needs to see what it's like to respect someone. You two can do that from separate residences. If it helps your daughter, let her see that you are doing this to improve things and that, you INTEND to take him back at some point, after he has gotten his issues under control and after YOU have learned to become a better well-rounded person. When you go to the lawyer, ask for a separation if your state allows it. Ask the lawyer help you set up some stipulations on what you'd require to take him back - things like him going to IC, you both going to MC, a legal document over what happens with the other child, legal protection from OW, stuff like that. Doing this will empower you and will also help you be more generous with him rather than reactionary, better for all concerned in the long run. Sorry, but I have to take issue with something you said here. I don't think it's wise for the OP to give the husband or the children promises or false hope that she will take the WS back after being separated for a time. No one knows the future, know one knows if this guy can or will change his abusive or narcisisstic pattern after being separated for a while. If the OP wants to delay making any permanent decision, then she should let her family know that she will need time to sort this out, and need time away from the situation to make any decision on what she wants to do, but I don't think it's wise to imply to anyone that she will eventually take him back. She may very well decide not to take him back. Personality disorders and abusive tendencies are very ingrained in a person, and learned from experiences in childhood. It will take years of counseling to break these patterns. I would suggest going for the separation, and then taking that time while separated to get counseling for yourself to empower you to break out of the role of victim which you adopted as a child and are continuing as an adult. Children who were abused often go on to marry abusive men because that is what is familiar to them, and men who are abusive and who have come from abusive homes as children often go on to pick these vulnerable women as a spouse because they know they can manipulate and control such a person. These are very ingrained patterns that are very difficult to break out of. Don't be giving anyone false hope or promises of returning to the marriage. Just consult the attorney, and make plans to separate. Then seek independent counseling to enable you to be empowered and have the strength to set limits on what behavior you will tolerate from men, and to understand the dynamics that led to this situation. In counseling, you will learn about the cycle of abuse, of the ways men will use manipulation and control to get what they want, and how to break out of the pattern that keeps you a victim of such men. The first step, though, is to consult an attorney and get the separation going. A separation does not have to be a permanent thing, but it is necessary to give you the space you need to make decisions. Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 OMG he sounds just like my exH with the crying and the begging and next he may even mention suicide Shelly be smart. Anything he says is not for your benefit it for his own. It's like you deflated him by taking all of the air out of him but don't feel sorry for him! He did this by being a bad husband. You've been kind and forgiving and understanding but it didn't make him value you all along now did it? Why does he all of a sudden value you now? "I will change I will change". Um...not possible. The only one who's going to change this situation is you. Keep being strong. XO Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 We waited until the kids were in bed to talk, he told me he would change. He was sorry for everything and he was ready to give up his ow. He has no plans of ever seeing her again only when he has to do things for their son. I told him he was too late, I can't do it anymore, I've looked the other way for 5 years now and nothing has changed. He sobbed hysterically, and begged for just one last shot we can do anything I want, move, go to counseling, whatever just one last time. It took me forever to get him to calm down, and get him to fall asleep. (he's staying in the other room) I've never seen him act like this. But I'm not going to back down He is reacting on pure emotion and acting out of desparation. Go on with your plans to divorce.. If he truly IS going to change, he will, with or without you. That begging is reaction of losing control of how things are. Now you are involved, calling the shots and he doesn't like that, hense the reaction of sobbing and being hysterical. My guess is, he'll go back to being the jerk he has been and it'll be like nothing happened lastnight. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 We waited until the kids were in bed to talk, he told me he would change. He was sorry for everything and he was ready to give up his ow. He has no plans of ever seeing her again only when he has to do things for their son. I told him he was too late, I can't do it anymore, I've looked the other way for 5 years now and nothing has changed. He sobbed hysterically, and begged for just one last shot we can do anything I want, move, go to counseling, whatever just one last time. It took me forever to get him to calm down, and get him to fall asleep. (he's staying in the other room) I've never seen him act like this. But I'm not going to back down He's going from one extreme to the other, the hallmark of a true control freak. I want to encourage you to stay strong because it is so easy to slip back into what's "comfortable". From the beginning of your most recent threads, both of you have taken a 180, interchanging roles per se and the power has shifted. Maybe I am cynical, although from experience it takes time for people to truly change. IMO most people just wait for the dust to settle and then it's business as usual, and quickly go back to what is "natural". 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Shelly72 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 I left the house early this morning before anyone was up. I filed for a separation because I'm really not prepared for divorce yet. I stayed out Of the house for awhile to collect myself, when I came home he was there. He didn't go to work at all today and just watched his son. He doesn't look good at all... 5 Link to post Share on other sites
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