I'm currently not speaking to my mother

[turnera]

"Mom, it's my turn to talk, ok?"

[SpiralOut]

haha. yeah I have thought of saying it before. I never did because of how weird it seems to say that to another adult. But I think I'll try that next time. Or I'll say "you've had your turn already."

[SpiralOut]

I am noticing more and more how she takes everything I say and makes it about herself somehow. When there is an opportunity for her to ask about me, she doesn't really. She doesn't read between the lines of our conversations. I mean if there is a lull in the conversation she will ask me the usual questions like how is my job, blah blah. She is most interested in what other people I talk to are doing. It's all gossip. I am the complete opposite. I find that sort of talk very boring. I tell her a little bit to indulge her, then change the subject.

 

 

I am upset about something. My father usually travels with me for the day to my town after Christmas. I wish that he wouldn't do it but he insists on it so it's a tradition we have now. I see it as father-daughter bonding time. At the end of this month we'll be doing that again. I invited him to meet my boyfriend for lunch while he is here. I figure why not? Two of my favourite people can meet.

 

 

I spoke to my father today and he told me that he told my mother about it and she wanted to know why she wasn't invited. He told her it's because she never comes with us, and it's a long drive. It doesn't make sense to sit in a car all day just to go to lunch. He told her she can come if she wants, so I guess she might be coming now.

 

 

If she does, I can handle it. I'm just upset. I don't trust her to behave herself. All I want to do is have a good time. I don't want to be stuck worrying about what rude thing she might blurt out at me. I told my boyfriend how she is, but still, I don't feel comfortable introducing them just yet. Anyway, she may not come. I guess I am just upset that this was randomly thrown at me and how I feel doesn't matter. Either I cancel it completely or I let her do what she wants and just deal with it. I feel that she is imposing herself and I don't know of a polite way to stop it. I mean I guess I could say something but it doesn't seem worth the drama.

 

 

Ha! I just realized that I'm not as angry at her as I used to be.

Edited December 8, 2014 by SpiralOut

[SpiralOut]

I haven't updated since my Christmas visit.

 

 

We got along okay. She didn't make any rude comments about me right in front of me (like she has before) and she didn't belittle me or say anything rude. At least not that I can remember. It's possible that I just don't notice it as much.

 

 

She DID do that thing where she decides she doesn't like how I'm doing something and randomly out of nowhere advises me on some other way to do it. That's very annoying. Her advice doesn't even make any sense half the time, plus I am happy with my choices, so it makes no sense to advise me in the first place. Anyway, I turned it around on her and asked her if what I was doing was bothering her? I offered to stop or to go somewhere else if it was buggering her, and suddenly she had no problem with it.

 

 

Oh and she ended up not travelling back with us, so that was good.

 

 

All I can do is look at my own behaviour and make sure I'm not picking up her bad habits. There are several things she does that I never do. There are certain habits I do have, that I got from her. I've been watching myself and correcting myself when I can.

 

 

Perhaps the one good thing I got from all this is my sense of compassion. I've been told by many people that I'm a nice person. Part of this may have come from walking on eggshells around an emotionally disturbed woman half my life. Part of it may have come from being bullied and knowing how much bad treatment can hurt. Obviously I'm not perfect but I do try really hard to not say hurtful things or make people feel left out.

 

 

I should focus on not criticizing people so much. She does that all the time and I hate it. I don't want to be like that.

 

 

Also, not sure if I mentioned this earlier or not but I've been researching Jungian psychology for the past year and it has helped me to find a sort of "inner" mother, the one that I never had, that I should have had, that I can have now. It is a deity that lives within me and within all of us. She is the goddess in her mother form. I talk to her sometimes when I'm upset and it fixes the hole that I've been trying to fill for so long.

[turnera]

Great progress! And great way to turn that around on her.

[Acacia98]

SpiralOut, it's been cool following this discussion and seeing how your relationship with your mother has evolved and how you've developed insight into her behavior. I'm proud of you (if it's possible to be proud of a stranger, lol).

 

Just wanted to say, some of the things your mother does that make you think she has a low opinion of you: it's possible that they have nothing to do with you and everything to do with the lenses through which she sees the world.

 

For instance, her obsession with the gender of your dentist may have something to do with a fear she had of being assaulted in her younger years. It's possible that she was actually assaulted. Maybe her way of dealing with the fear or with an actual assault was to avoid situations where she was alone with men.

 

You mentioned that she grew up the child of an alcoholic. Perhaps being the child of an alcoholic meant that she was sometimes placed into dangerous situations? And perhaps her doctor's observation that her body has constantly been in a fight or flight response is reflective of an emotional state that she learned to adopt when she was younger?

 

She sounds a bit childlike- her perception of people and their motivations lacks the insight that typically comes with emotional maturity. To add to that, she tends to think out loud. So perhaps that's why she comes across as rude and socially awkward.

 

The other thing I find myself thinking is that some of your father's behavior feeds her dysfunction. Based on what you say, he has played a bit of a role in creating or sustaining some of the situations you've found problematic. So it might help you to focus, not just on your mother, but on the roles that each member of your family plays in sustaining the unhealthy dynamic.

[SpiralOut]

SpiralOut, it's been cool following this discussion and seeing how your relationship with your mother has evolved and how you've developed insight into her behavior. I'm proud of you (if it's possible to be proud of a stranger, lol).

 

Just wanted to say, some of the things your mother does that make you think she has a low opinion of you: it's possible that they have nothing to do with you and everything to do with the lenses through which she sees the world.

 

 

Yes this is true. When she looks at me she doesn't see me. She sees herself. Then she talks to me and treats me as if I am her. This is what infuriates me more than anything - her inability to acknowledge that I am not her.

 

 

I think she made some mistakes in the past or had bad experiences so she assumes that I think the same way as her, or that I might make the same choices . . . and then treats me that way. Sometimes I wonder if she thinks of herself as helpless and weak and naïve and lacking good judgement.... because honestly, that's how she talks to me and treats me, as if I am all those things. It is extremely frustrating to have someone project themselves onto you pretty much constantly.

 

She sounds a bit childlike- her perception of people and their motivations lacks the insight that typically comes with emotional maturity. To add to that, she tends to think out loud. So perhaps that's why she comes across as rude and socially awkward.

 

 

Yep.

 

The other thing I find myself thinking is that some of your father's behavior feeds her dysfunction. Based on what you say, he has played a bit of a role in creating or sustaining some of the situations you've found problematic. So it might help you to focus, not just on your mother, but on the roles that each member of your family plays in sustaining the unhealthy dynamic.

 

 

How has his behaviour fed her dysfunction? I know he enabled some of it. I'm just wondering what you noticed specifically.

[SpiralOut]

Okay I'm not sure this warrants its own thread, so I'll post this here. This problem comes from the way my mother treated me.

 

 

I feel guilty when I stand up to someone, especially if I lose my temper in the process. When I first started trying to be assertive, I flipflopped between being totally passive, to being aggressive. I would either say nothing, or explode and yell.

 

 

Now, I am much better. However, I still feel guilty when I am assertive. I told off a woman at work last month. I did it in a very respectful way and, even though I felt proud of myself, I still spent the whole night with nagging doubts. Did I go too far? Did I hurt her feelings? Is she going to hate me now? It ended up being okay. Still, these feelings always come up after I've confronted someone.

 

 

I think it's because of how my mother handled my anger. She would belittle me. I would get angry and talk back at her. I would be told "don't talk to your mother like that." She got away with her bad behaviour. I didn't. Even though I was the child and she the adult, it was okay for her to bully me, and not okay for me to stand up to her. She never apologized. Nobody asked me if I was okay. Nobody asked why I was mad. Nobody ever tried to explain to me how to stand up for myself in an appropriate way. Nobody ever acknowledged (to me, anyway) that my mother's behaviour was unacceptable. I was told to shut up, and it all got swept under the rug.

 

 

So growing up, being angry/standing up for myself never got me anywhere. If I dare to talk back, well then, I am the one who is wrong. I'm just a piece of ****.

 

 

Anyway, the counseller I was seeing wasn't a good fit. I stopped seeing her. I want to go back to the other one - the expensive one. She was pricy but had a spiritual approach that was perfect for me. I might try to go back.

Edited February 27, 2015 by SpiralOut

[writergal]

SpiralOut, I totally empathize with your situation as I'm going through it myself, and have seen several friends cope with an abusive parent. It's not easy. Not by a long shot. But you seem to be making great progress towards recovery and healing.

 

It's cruel irony to be raised by an abusive parent. The adult who is supposed to shield you from harm, causes you more harm, more often than you would normally receive from the outside world. Psychological abuse is hard to recover and heal from when that abuse comes from your parent.

 

Keep posting about it, if it helps you to process your recovery and healing.

[Timshel]

When you have a moment, look up scapegoating within families. It may answer some questions.

[justacollegekid]

My mom had to stop talking to her own mother for the same reason. Its hard when its your own family especially when friends are so unreliable, it really really is. To be honest, she is a strong lady and has had to deal with everything on her own. But I guess once you have kids your mother won't matter as much anymore.

Edited March 1, 2015 by justacollegekid

[CrystalShine2011]

Tough situation....my mother and I went through that a bit too.

 

One day though, it will get easier because those little things that annoy you now will start to disappear. Try to hang in there and be the bigger person.

[SpiralOut]

Thanks for all the support.

 

 

I'll be going to visit my parents in a few weeks for Easter. My bf will be coming with me and it will be his first time meeting her. I have warned him about her. I am trying really hard to not feel nervous. Whatever happens, I can deal with it.

 

 

My mother is not like other people. I have noticed she does not stand up for herself. Ever. Not even against me. Not even when I was little and I talked back at her when she acted rude to me. She would either pretend like I didn't exist, or she would say "I don't care" and walk away. Not once did she ever say "don't talk to me that way" or "I'm sorry you don't like what I said but you don't need to swear at me" or "Oh sorry, I shouldn't have said that to you" or .....ANYTHING, really.

 

 

If I say anything even the least bit rude, or something that might accidentally be interpreted as rude, well then you don't exist anymore. You don't even deserve to be spoken to. But of course it's okay for her to talk to you however the hell she wants. And she never says sorry.

 

 

Clearly I still have some anger towards her. I just saw some old photos of my mother at my age and she looks just like me. She also has a look on her face that makes her look like a b***. How could someone who looks like me become such an emotionally immature, dysfunctional person? That's scary.

 

 

In order to not be like her, I need to regain my self-esteem. I think most of her problems are due to low self-esteem. And she is a narcissist. I was worried I might be too, but I researched it and found out that if I were a true narcissist, I would not have bothered to consider it a possibility for myself in the first place. So I guess I'm not, or if I am then I'm not on the extreme end of it.

 

 

Next time she talks badly about my grandmother I will ask her why she talks about her that way. She never openly insults her but will make remarks like "she just sits there and watches TV" and "she has nothing interesting to talk about." She worries way too much about her mother socializing with other people - and it doesn't sound like genuine concern. It sounds more like disdain.

Edited March 16, 2015 by SpiralOut

[Auspecial]

To be honest it sounds like she has a personality disorder. To be even more honest it sounds like she has Narcissistic PD. I'd encourage you to read up on that and see if you find a lot of parallels.

 

These people are vastly empty inside. The are able to mimic emotion to the point of believeability, except to those they heap their abuse on. And even then it is difficult to accept because things they do are so cruel. Particularly hard to accept if it is a mother. No one wants to believe the person who brought them into the world is capability of wanting to anhililate their very soul.

 

NPD's require the energy of someone elses pain in order to feel anything at all. It is really hard to believe for outside observers, because they can be so convincingly real. It doesn't matter if you cross them, agree with them or confront them. If they decide you are their target, they stop at nothing to destroy. The smear campaigns are highly strategic and almost machine-like in their execution.

 

Their life is a facade and there is absolutely nothing behind the mask except a machine of destruction.

 

I wish you well in this, it is a nightmare to go through. Maybe she just has traits of this and not full-on NPD. But this is what it sound likes to me after reading many of your posts about her.

 

most experts agree there is no other way to deal with them than No Contact. Some are okay with Low Contact, but IMO, this just makes them do more extensive smear campaigns.

[LuckyLady13]

SpiralOut, wow. I read your posts and related in a few ways. I also made an observation. Your nerves are shot from this woman. You've tried to grapple with this situation, understand her, understand her possible motives, analyze your own behavior so as not to repeat the behaviors you see in her that you (and sometimes other people) do not like. I'm mostly concerned with how you 'sound'.

 

How I relate, in one way, is when I was 26 years old, my grandmother did not want me to move half across the country. But, her way to approach the situation was to tell me I'm going to end up a sex slave by the man I was dating at the time. It was just a scare tactic. I didn't appreciate it. Rolled my eyes and ignored it and moved. She had to deal with me being gone. Her way of using a scare tactic to get me to stay was immature and I was angry she did that because at her age I thought she was beyond things like this. I expected adult behavior from her.

 

I also relate because I had a friend who, at 40 years old, was nearly convinced by her grandmother that she was going to be killed and thrown in a ditch by a man she wanted to go on a date with. That night, I was going with her and had my own date to contend with so four of us were going out. I don't know if this was a more common tactic to use by their generations to scare children and grandchildren into staying home but I dragged my friend out, we had a crazy good time that night and all ended perfectly well. I was standing right there when her grandmother tried to scare her and her grandmother was well aware that I was going too, along with my date.

 

Your mother should never have asked you if your doctor is a man or a woman the way she has asked you multiple times. Being a grown adult, it's your personal business what you're doing regarding birth control, having children and who you date. If you want to date your doctor, more power to you.

 

The tactics she's using seem to be quite old. She has an immature way of dropping your self-esteem and trying to scare you so you stick close to her like a petrified toddler on the first day of pre-school. She has your nerves wrapped up so tight around her little finger that I think this has got to a point of being serious. A serious threat to your mental and emotional health. She has been doing this for so many years now that you, at this point in time, aren't able to deal with her objectively to protect yourself.

 

I understand your want to understand her. However, so far, you've been coming to the conclusion she probably doesn't understand herself and isn't aware of what she's doing. I think, personally, quite the contrary.

 

I also think (this is just speculation) that you have tried to explain away her behavior and tried to find innocence in her so that you can have love toward her because she's your mother. If she's not doing this on purpose and not aware of the damage she's causing, how could you be angry, right?

 

I understand wanting to do that because it feels better to love someone, care about them and be happy. Feels like the right things to do.

 

However, I think up to this point, you're becoming a martyr. Sacrificing your mental health, your own self for her. I don't think this is a good idea because if she's so concerned about her and you also are so concerned about her, who is concerned about you?

 

You've analyzed this situation with her so much that it reached a point of obsessing and over-analyzing. Mostly, from the direction your posts took, to try to find innocence in a person who may not have any.

 

You said your mother has belittled you and no one explained to you how to stand up for yourself in an appropriate way. Did it occur to you that you're not supposed to be standing up for yourself constantly with your own mother? There normally is no need to?

 

You are so used to the dysfunction with her that I think some simple things are being missed by you completely!

 

You said she speaks to you as if you're helpless, naive and lack good judgement and this was a constant theme in your posts. She's done this so often that you have put high walls up in fear of the next time because you are so used to her behaving in this way that you expect nothing else. You put walls up as high as you are because damage has been done more and more each time she has done this to such a point you're nearly terrified to let her near you. And you honestly have talked yourself into thinking your mother doesn't know what's going on here. She knows.

 

Your mother is very selfish. If she wasn't, she'd seek counseling or a therapist, speak to someone at her church or speak to a friend, your father but one way or another do something about this behavior of hers that's hurting and scaring her own child.

 

I'm sorry that your mother is selfish and uses immature scare tactics on you. I really am. I know it hurts because this is your own mother and you think it's just normal for a mother to care for their children and never hurt them. And you want her to be a caring mother but she just isn't. Hasn't been for a long time, at least.

 

I honestly think that in an attempt to understand your situation and find peace within it, you've actually been hurt more so I think you should step back very far for a little while, spend time with friends and nice people you know and trust and get a new perspective on things before making any further attempts to deal with your mother. People like your mother don't change until they have to.

 

You have a long, bumpy road ahead of you when it comes to analyzing your own behavior to make sure you're not becoming your mother 2.0 but it will go faster if you compare yourself more to people who are nothing like her at all.

 

Your best option at this point looks to me like a total regroup but you can't do that with her around you, even phone calls, because she has way too tight of a grip on your head. You will be better off spending as much time as you possibly can with people who don't resemble her. You'll start to see clearly who she is that way. Not by constantly analyzing her. After enough time, you will start to be able to see the situation with her with more objective eyes and less hurt and fear so that if you choose to try to forge a relationship with her, you'll be coming from a point of strength.

 

Some people...would say life is too short to take time away from your mother and what if something happens. The other side of the coin is, life is too short for you to live the way you've been living one more day!

[Acacia98]

I can relate to your frustration at having her think of you as an extension of her. I have a couple of relationships with similar dynamics.

 

How has his behaviour fed her dysfunction? I know he enabled some of it. I'm just wondering what you noticed specifically.

 

Sorry, but I can't find a specific example right now. I do remember that, as I read through your posts, I got the general impression that your father was kind of enabling her.

[SpiralOut]

To be honest it sounds like she has a personality disorder. To be even more honest it sounds like she has Narcissistic PD. I'd encourage you to read up on that and see if you find a lot of parallels.

 

most experts agree there is no other way to deal with them than No Contact. Some are okay with Low Contact, but IMO, this just makes them do more extensive smear campaigns.

 

 

What do you mean by smear campaigns? Like the way she sits there and complains about how stupid she thinks younger women are? I don't even know what she says about me. I am sure whatever she says would be insults disguised as "concern."

 

 

I've done some research and I can relate to some of what I've found.

 

 

from this site,Narcissistic Parents: Is Love Enough?

"In my experience, if you ask adult children of mildly narcissistic parents whether they were loved, some will say 'yes, in a controlling, self-centered way.' Another variable, however, is far more telling. The critical questions are 'did my parent respect and value what I said, see myself as independent from them in a positive way, and feel that my thoughts and feelings were as important as theirs.' In other words, did my parent allow me 'voice'? No adult child of a narcissistic parent can answer these questions in the affirmative."

 

 

This is very true for me. I've always felt that my mother thinks my opinions are meaningless or wrong or stupid. She doesn't respect what I think or feel. Never has.

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, I think up to this point, you're becoming a martyr. Sacrificing your mental health, your own self for her. I don't think this is a good idea because if she's so concerned about her and you also are so concerned about her, who is concerned about you?

 

You've analyzed this situation with her so much that it reached a point of obsessing and over-analyzing. Mostly, from the direction your posts took, to try to find innocence in a person who may not have any.

 

You said your mother has belittled you and no one explained to you how to stand up for yourself in an appropriate way. Did it occur to you that you're not supposed to be standing up for yourself constantly with your own mother? There normally is no need to?

 

You are so used to the dysfunction with her that I think some simple things are being missed by you completely!

 

 

I honestly think that in an attempt to understand your situation and find peace within it, you've actually been hurt more so I think you should step back very far for a little while, spend time with friends and nice people you know and trust and get a new perspective on things before making any further attempts to deal with your mother. People like your mother don't change until they have to.

 

You have a long, bumpy road ahead of you when it comes to analyzing your own behavior to make sure you're not becoming your mother 2.0 but it will go faster if you compare yourself more to people who are nothing like her at all.

 

 

 

I agree with most of what you said. I should spend more time with positive people. The thing is that my idea of what is "normal" is so skewed that many of my friends in the past few years have been bad for me. I had to get rid of them. I need to meet new people, which I've been doing, yet I constantly second guess myself. I'm worried about choosing bad people to hang around again. I'm so used to being belittled that I don't always notice a "friend" doing it until it gets really bad. I don't always see the red flags. So for this reason it is hard for me to just hang out with normal people. Guess I should try harder.

 

 

I disagree with your statement that I'm not capable of handling my mother right now. I still struggle, but I get better and better at it each time I see her. I only see her 3-4 times a year.

 

 

I also disagree with your statement that she knows what she is doing. I really don't think she does. Narcissists don't realize they have a problem - that's what makes it so hard for them to ever get help. She might have some vague idea of how she is acting, but I don't think she truly gets it. She probably thinks she is entitled to act that way and therefore, inside her mind, nothing is wrong with it. She has trouble with empathy. I can see her trying to show it sometimes but it doesn't seem genuine. It doesn't come naturally to her - it's an act. I don't think that she truly understands the feelings of other people. That doesn't make it any easier to love her, as you say. If anything it makes me feel pissed off that she could be so stupid. I mean, she clearly wants a relationship with me. I see her trying to do that. Yet she fails totally and completely because she doesn't know how to treat me properly. It's annoying.

Edited March 19, 2015 by SpiralOut

[SpiralOut]

Quick question . . .

 

 

Is it normal for someone to randomly out of nowhere give you advice about your life?

 

 

I ask because my mother does this sometimes. I always saw it as normal. Now, I don't think that it is, because I would not do this to someone. An example is, this card she mailed to me one time. I don't remember what the card was for exactly, but she wrote a message in it advising me to talk about my problems because bottling them up just makes them worse.

 

 

Umm.... okay? This happened shortly after my ex-bf left me. So I can see why she might think that. But why go out of her way to say that to me? We were not having a heart-felt conversation. She is not someone I confide in. Whenever I try to she just stands there talking about herself anyway. I'm not close to her, never have been. And why would she assume I don't talk about things with anyone? She didn't even know what was really happening with me.

 

 

Other examples include, randomly out of nowhere telling me that she understands what its like to have no money. She did that often when I was in university full time. I thought it was weird of her to say that, because she seemed concerned, but I was actually very happy. I saw my low income as part of the student experience. In fact I wasn't even that bad off financially because I had a good amount of savings. So she was making assumptions about my situation and how I felt about it and acting accordingly. She was trying to empathize, but nothing she said made sense. How could she empathize with my feelings when she totally misjudged what they actually WERE?

 

 

 

At the time I rationalized it as her trying to be nice to me.... but looking back.... would you say that she was being condescending?

 

 

One more weird thing... she likes to make comments about how she knows whats going on with me because she "notices things like that you know." For example she noticed me using my cell phone more often than usual during a visit, became suspicious, and tried to figure out why. She didn't say anything at the time . . . it was MONTHS later when she mentioned it to me. She sounded proud of herself. Why mention it to me at all? What on earth is wrong with you that you are watching how often I use my phone and then analyzing it to death? Then bringing it up months later? Are you really bored or something?

 

 

Please tell me that's not normal. It seemed so weird to me and I didn't like the feeling I got from it.

Edited March 19, 2015 by SpiralOut

[Auspecial]

Quick question . . .

 

 

Is it normal for someone to randomly out of nowhere give you advice about your life?

 

 

I ask because my mother does this sometimes. I always saw it as normal. Now, I don't think that it is, because I would not do this to someone. An example is, this card she mailed to me one time. I don't remember what the card was for exactly, but she wrote a message in it advising me to talk about my problems because bottling them up just makes them worse.

 

 

Umm.... okay? This happened shortly after my ex-bf left me. So I can see why she might think that. But why go out of her way to say that to me? We were not having a heart-felt conversation. She is not someone I confide in. Whenever I try to she just stands there talking about herself anyway. I'm not close to her, never have been. And why would she assume I don't talk about things with anyone? She didn't even know what was really happening with me.

 

 

Other examples include, randomly out of nowhere telling me that she understands what its like to have no money. She did that often when I was in university full time. I thought it was weird of her to say that, because she seemed concerned, but I was actually very happy. I saw my low income as part of the student experience. In fact I wasn't even that bad off financially because I had a good amount of savings. So she was making assumptions about my situation and how I felt about it and acting accordingly. She was trying to empathize, but nothing she said made sense. How could she empathize with my feelings when she totally misjudged what they actually WERE?

 

 

 

At the time I rationalized it as her trying to be nice to me.... but looking back.... would you say that she was being condescending?

 

 

One more weird thing... she likes to make comments about how she knows whats going on with me because she "notices things like that you know." For example she noticed me using my cell phone more often than usual during a visit, became suspicious, and tried to figure out why. She didn't say anything at the time . . . it was MONTHS later when she mentioned it to me. She sounded proud of herself. Why mention it to me at all? What on earth is wrong with you that you are watching how often I use my phone and then analyzing it to death? Then bringing it up months later? Are you really bored or something?

 

 

Please tell me that's not normal. It seemed so weird to me and I didn't like the feeling I got from it.

 

This is my opinion, based on me being in a relationship with a NPD person for a long time, and I studied it. This person also has other "issues," so it could be that the NPD in your life isn't as bad but, similar. So, this may sound severe, but its based on what I experienced.

 

No, its isn't socially normal. It might feel questionably normal to you if this has been going on since developmental years and pre-memory. Its part of the attempt to program you. To insert doubt by negating your own reality, calling to question random, even sometimes mundane things. She doesn't "just" see you as herself, and not separate. She has purposefully sought to create this is in you, because the person with full NPD is hungry to incorporate their victims (yes this absolutely IS abuse) into themselves.

 

Obviously, you ARE separate, but she recalls how easy it was at first, so she maintains hope that she can still accomplish this. When you start calling her out, thats when the smear campaigns either start, or increase in fury.

 

A smear campaign is a deliberate mass-undertaking where the person assassinates your character to other people. This is done in a way that makes the other people think she is actually trying to "help" you with your (fake) problem. They think she has empathy for you when in reality it is the opposite of empathy. Bit by bit they start treating you differently, as they see you (false) differently, and you start to lose any support system and (at that point) have no idea why. Not having a support system, you self esteem would naturally take a hit. The cycle continues.

 

Telling you things like its "hard to be poor", "speak up," etc, are doubts about yourself she is trying to insert into your consciousness, where those doubts were not there to start with. Any way to undermine your own reality of your own individual existence. The "speak up: is also her trying to get you to talk about your life so she can use it to spin more lies to you and to others about you.

 

"I notice things like that"..she is trying to make you think she is psychic, and that you have no power against her control.

 

Sorry if this all seems especially harsh. Maybe your mother has "traits," and not the full disorder. But she seems destructive nonetheless.

[SpiralOut]

This is my opinion, based on me being in a relationship with a NPD person for a long time, and I studied it. This person also has other "issues," so it could be that the NPD in your life isn't as bad but, similar. So, this may sound severe, but its based on what I experienced.

 

No, its isn't socially normal. It might feel questionably normal to you if this has been going on since developmental years and pre-memory. Its part of the attempt to program you. To insert doubt by negating your own reality, calling to question random, even sometimes mundane things. She doesn't "just" see you as herself, and not separate. She has purposefully sought to create this is in you, because the person with full NPD is hungry to incorporate their victims (yes this absolutely IS abuse) into themselves.

 

.

 

 

Hmmm. I just assumed that she thought my situation sucked (which it didn't, and I think on some level she was jealous of it), so she decided to herself that I thought it sucked too - because we share the same brain, after all. So then she tried to act like she understood, and expected me to know what she meant.

 

 

I do see some truth in what you say, about wanting to "incorporate their victims into themselves." I often felt she was doing that when she told me over and over that if I ever got pregnant she would support my choice to get an abortion. She talked about it so much I began to feel like she WANTED that to happen to me. She also pretty much treated me as if I were a slut even though I was a virgin. She didn't believe me when I said that. Then, she turned around and said I can always talk to her whenever I want. What a load of crap. It pissed me off.

 

 

I am not worried about her doing a smear campaign against me. Everyone knows what she is like. I give her very little info to work with. She doesn't hide her dysfunction very well, except against little kids or anyone too naïve to see it. Most of my childhood and teenage friends thought she was weird. Most were too nice to say so - only one of them told me straight up that she thought my mother was "crazy." Some people might say she was a bad friend for saying that but at the time it made me feel validated. It was a relief. Finally, someone who has the guts to just say it.

 

 

I guess it's a good sign that I see most of her behaviour as weird. Those two examples that I gave, I didn't agree or give in to them. I maintained my own opinions.

 

 

During one of my visits, I saw her do something to my brother. She invalidated his feelings. It worked. It was weird to see her do it to someone, and it was even weirder to see her succeed. My brother is a pretty tough guy - I guess it's harder to shake off manipulation when you grew up with it. I wanted to punch her in the face when I saw her do that. What a manipulative woman.

 

 

I still don't believe she does these things consciously. She's like a starving person who found a buffet and is shoving her face with whatever she finds, not caring what she eats.

[SpiralOut]

okay another question. any advice on what to do next time she randomly gives me weird advice? She does it even when there are no social cues whatsoever to indicate that I might want advice. I am not complaining, or discussing a problem, or anything. We aren't even discussing the topic! It's just totally out of the blue. It's bizarre!

 

 

She also does things like "drops hints" with my father. The way that she does it is so obvious, but she thinks she is being subtle. He pretends to not notice but he sees right through it. She doesn't know that. She honestly believes that her "hints" are working on him. How could you be married to someone for nearly 40 years and not realize that they know what you're doing? She's so clueless! Maybe I should do the same thing and just sort of humour her.... I could say 'that's really good advice mother, I'm glad that you understand how it feels to be poor." LOL

Edited March 20, 2015 by SpiralOut

[susanpetrick]

Hey !! This is not good . You must talk to your mom. She was not over possessive she is just concerned about you, it will not take your much time to talk TO her for two minutes and tell her that you'll call her whenever you have time and talk to her on a regular basis, like week to week. And about not inviting you ! May be she doesn't want her mother to know about your ignorant behavior for her.

[susanpetrick]

you can learn something from this video, may be this will make you understand your mom .

 

http://goo.gl/FjUQLU try it !

[Auspecial]

okay another question. any advice on what to do next time she randomly gives me weird advice? She does it even when there are no social cues whatsoever to indicate that I might want advice. I am not complaining, or discussing a problem, or anything. We aren't even discussing the topic! It's just totally out of the blue. It's bizarre!

 

 

She also does things like "drops hints" with my father. The way that she does it is so obvious, but she thinks she is being subtle. He pretends to not notice but he sees right through it. She doesn't know that. She honestly believes that her "hints" are working on him. How could you be married to someone for nearly 40 years and not realize that they know what you're doing? She's so clueless! Maybe I should do the same thing and just sort of humour her.... I could say 'that's really good advice mother, I'm glad that you understand how it feels to be poor." LOL

 

Its good if you are able to make light of it and joke about it. Personally, the NPD in my life was so destructive that I have no desire to have any contact with IT whatsoever. But as you say, the lies have become so transparent that everyone knows IT is lying anyway.

[Auspecial]

you can learn something from this video, may be this will make you understand your mom .

 

http://goo.gl/FjUQLU try it !

 

Its an interesting video, but if a person (in this case the OP's mother) doesn't want to stop being toxic, they won't.