I'm currently not speaking to my mother

[KittyKat67]

Speaking as an older seasoned mother who had a VERY controlling mother.......get over it.

 

You are obviously not a parent yet, and well making conversation about your doctor is something I would ask just to make conversation.

 

I moved across country from my parents and would give anything now to have those years spent so far away back again.

 

I just recently moved my very elderly parents here to help them. My mother still drives me insane, but I'm a mother of two young adults now so I guess I get it now.

 

Be patient. I know you were venting as all children do, but don't stay mad long, time is so precious. She loves you and is interested in what's going on with you. As far as the sleeping with some do like I did and just say......." yeah mom, I sleep with all the guys, right?"

 

Take a break from her, but understand from a moms perspective.......she loves you regardless and forever!

I have to say that i think its absurd and rediculous that you tell her to get over it..REALLY? That is your perspective and its a free country so yes you get to voice your opinion, but so do I. Obviously her mother crossed boundries and we don't really know through her posts to what extent as its hard to physically convey all the emotions associated with the pain. Some people are born more sensitive to others, as some people are born with a tougher persona. It seems as though you have "gotten over " whatever it is you need to but honestly, thats not a solutions, thats your opinion. Getting over something like a toxic mother daughter relationship has soo many layers to it that you have no clue about it really. You have done what works for you but simply getting over it isn't as easy for some people as the abuse that can happen through the years doesn't warrent just getting over it. Sometimes cutting ties is the answer, sometimes it isn't. Soooo telling someone to get over it sound just as dismissive as an abusive parent who can't understand how deeply a person may have been affected.

[KittyKat67]

Well, I'm not taking your mothers side but honestly it pains me to hear you are cutting her out of your life.

 

 

As for mothers day, you made no effort to see her, she defended you and herself. I do not believe she is intentionally trying to hurt you. Maybe I feel that because my mother is similar and I see it differently now at I'm an older seasoned mom myself.

 

Everyone has faults. Perhaps you two are not getting along because you are similar? I don't know really.

 

What I do know is this.........time here with family is short lived. Take the high road and don't take everything so personal.

 

My brother spent 15 years in therapy because of our mom. I have since told him, save your money and 'get over it'. He never had children and has no clue what it's like at times. Parents do the best they can with what they got, end of story. Despite that they love you unconditionally whether you want to believe it or not.

 

Being independent is fine. When she calls answer what you want and leave the rest. You being upset is giving her the control over you. When you can let it go in one ear and out the other you have come to a good place. Had to do that myself years ago.

 

I'm taking care of my parents now, she 78 and he's 82. She's still just as controlling and down right mean at times, but she's who she is and that's still my mother. My brother wouldn't lift a finger for them and that's fine, his choice, but I know someday he will regret not having them around.(sooner than not because they are both very I'll at this point and I'm running myself ragged taking care of them and my two young adults).

 

I regret the time I lost with them in the last twenty years, by being across the country from them. If I could get it back I would in an instant. I moved them here a year ago because of failing health. It's been a long road, and mind you, the things my mother has done and said to me have been horrible. She called my brother three years ago and told him I was stealing money from their bank account. Well, no such thing was going on at all, but I was humiliated by my brother completely. My mom insists now she never said that, but I know better. Thing is, I could have been mad and cut them off, but I realize now that these are small things in the big picture. My mom may crap all over me, I'm not a door mat, I just don't let it get to me. Why? Because it makes no difference, she's old and I'm her only daughter.

 

I didn't mean to drag on about this, sorry. It's just I think I really know the position you're in because I have lived it at length. You cannot change her, you must change yourself so you can just deal with her. When you do that, you might find that's she's not so bad and you can be friends. I'm like pollyanna though, I just think that people should find the good in others and shrug off the bad, if you love someone that is...........

 

Getting over it isn't as easy as you say to do it. You say that you were across the country. Well that is great for you and you were able to distance yourself to get your sanity. What about if the person isn't so fortunate to be across the country and has to see the abuse continue all through their adult life and be right next to it with no break? I went through similar situation and always knew that I needed at least a year away completley...a complete break to heal. Getting over it is ideal, but when you have love involved, getting over it isn't as easy and sometimes just impossible if you never get a break to be away from it to find yourself and heal. Getting over it is possible, if the person has time to heal their own wounds to see a diferent perspective.

[preraph]

There does come a time when you have to stop telling your parents everything so that you can become and adult and make your own decisions. But her feeling like your mother doesn't change because you turned 21, which you'll understand some way. To her, right or wrong, she has the movie rights to you since she pushed you out of her 21 years ago and then gave up whatever identity or life she once had to raise you. Her interest isn't going to go away.

 

But it is normal around your age to cut them off from getting advice or crying on their shoulder, at least about romantic type things but some other things as well. It's a stage in becoming an adult. You don't have to be hostile about it. You just have to make sure she knows you're not taking orders anymore and gently and quietly stop confiding your everyday stuff to her so she has nothing to ruminate about. Now, be prepared because once you have kids, you'll be begging for all the attention she can give you!

[turnera]

My DD25 is living at home because she's in grad school (read: poor) and I'm fine with that. But we've had many conversations over the past 7 or 8 years about how SHE needs to take steps to become independent. Since she started high school, I've made her make her own doctor appointments, visit the bank herself, etc., so that she'd know how to do it all and would feel confident enough to just leave when she was ready. Her dad...not so much. So when she started dating her boyfriend last year, it was hard for her to act like a 24 year old, kwim? She was afraid to spend the night with him, for fear of what dad would say. So I had to push through a whole new layer of 'go act like an adult - what would an adult do?' stuff. She's finally nearly there, but I have no doubt if I'd been like her dad, 'punishing' her for daring to want to do what adults do, she'd be far less independent at this point, more scared to branch out on her own.

 

I used to think that adults don't really feel like adults, as least in American society, until around age 30. I remember still being ashamed of having sex when I was 30, and I'd been married 9 years by then. And I didn't really feel able to talk to my mom like peers until I was about 40. And I've seen more and more people on tv today back this up - they'll say things like 'we need to buy our own house so we can feel like grownups' or 'this will make us grow up.'

 

So I think she's making good progress given what she had to deal with.

[SpiralOut]

Soooo telling someone to get over it sound just as dismissive as an abusive parent who can't understand how deeply a person may have been affected.

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

So I had to push through a whole new layer of 'go act like an adult - what would an adult do?' stuff. She's finally nearly there, but I have no doubt if I'd been like her dad, 'punishing' her for daring to want to do what adults do, she'd be far less independent at this point, more scared to branch out on her own.

 

 

 

You sound like a good parent.

 

 

I've encountered women in their late 30s, late 40s who seem afraid of going out on their own, too afraid to even move into their own place. Their families aren't very nice to them, so maybe that's why they lack confidence. It's sad to see.

[SpiralOut]

I've been working through some exercises from the self-help book and I realized something. Even though I internalized some of my mother's criticisms of me, there are a LOT of things that I didn't. She made many jabs and insults that I KNEW she was making because of her own issues. I didn't let everything get under my skin. I never truly respected or trusted her because I understood instinctively that her opinions were often inaccurate.

 

 

I'm just posting here because I feel good about myself right now. I was a strong-willed child. I am a strong-willed person.

[SpiralOut]

I don't know how I feel right now. I'm visiting for the weekend. I see now that I rarely talk when my mother is in the room because she takes what I say and makes it all about herself. I am only able to converse with my brother and father when she is out of the room.

 

I told them something important about me and she made it all about herself within 2 seconds flat. I didn't feel surprised or angry or disappointed. I don't know how I felt. Some combination of pity and calmness and superiority. My brother and I both stayed quiet and let her go on for a while. She was talking out loud to herself without caring if anyone else found it interesting or not. It was weirdly fascinating to watch.

 

I think that it helps me to observe her behaviour. It helps me to see her for how she really is.

[SpiralOut]

A few memories came back to me. My mother tried really hard to make me like kids, so much so that I always felt she was forcing it onto me.

 

 

I also grew up watching her being loved by all the other kids at school. She sometimes did substitute teaching at my school and everyone thought she was just so nice....because she was nice to everyone else. They would all tell me about how lucky I am to have her as a mother. ha!!! I never told anyone the truth because they wouldn't have believed me.

 

 

I've had a huge chip on my shoulder my whole life towards kids... basically hating them. But maybe I don't hate kids. Maybe I just hate the way my mother loved other children more than she loved me. Disliking kids may also have been my way of rebelling against her ... by trying to not be like her.

 

 

After she got hired full-time and I went off to highschool, she tried for years and years to convince me to come into her classroom so she could show me off to her class. No matter how many times I told her no, she ignored me and tried harder to change my mind. She just didn't care how I felt. She couldn't take no for an answer or respect the fact that I am who I am. She could have asked my brother, and he may have said yes (he likes kids) but it was me she wanted. I never went in. I'm still not 100% sure what that was all about....something about her, of course, but I'm not sure what exactly.

 

 

There are a few other examples I'd rather not get into.

 

 

I am trying to work through these memories so I can get rid of the chip on my shoulder. I don't really understand why she would try to force me to love children, especially since she was simultaneously obsessed with making sure I didn't get pregnant (even though I was a virgin...). I know it's about HER somehow but I don't know why exactly? I don't get it.

Edited December 21, 2015 by SpiralOut

[turnera]

showing you off was obviously about her getting to say 'look at the good job I did creating her.' Just remember that it's always about her getting her 'fix' of what SHE needed - attention, affection, admiration. She probably loved you, but in a way that benefited HER. Some people are just wired that way. My mom loved me to pieces, but she had that little part of her that would get her to make jokes at my expense. 'You're going to wear THAT?' (laugh laugh) "I never really thought you would ever graduate college!" (laugh laugh)

 

Everyone laughed except for me. But I know she loved me. It's just that little part of her that needed a pick me up.

 

I recognized that, felt sorry for her, and moved on.

[dreamingoftigers]

A few memories came back to me. My mother tried really hard to make me like kids, so much so that I always felt she was forcing it onto me.

 

 

I also grew up watching her being loved by all the other kids at school. She sometimes did substitute teaching at my school and everyone thought she was just so nice....because she was nice to everyone else. They would all tell me about how lucky I am to have her as a mother. ha!!! I never told anyone the truth because they wouldn't have believed me.

 

 

I've had a huge chip on my shoulder my whole life towards kids... basically hating them. But maybe I don't hate kids. Maybe I just hate the way my mother loved other children more than she loved me. Disliking kids may also have been my way of rebelling against her ... by trying to not be like her.

 

 

After she got hired full-time and I went off to highschool, she tried for years and years to convince me to come into her classroom so she could show me off to her class. No matter how many times I told her no, she ignored me and tried harder to change my mind. She just didn't care how I felt. She couldn't take no for an answer or respect the fact that I am who I am. She could have asked my brother, and he may have said yes (he likes kids) but it was me she wanted. I never went in. I'm still not 100% sure what that was all about....something about her, of course, but I'm not sure what exactly.

 

 

There are a few other examples I'd rather not get into.

 

 

I am trying to work through these memories so I can get rid of the chip on my shoulder. I don't really understand why she would try to force me to love children, especially since she was simultaneously obsessed with making sure I didn't get pregnant (even though I was a virgin...). I know it's about HER somehow but I don't know why exactly? I don't get it.

 

That's funny, it reminds me of how my mother was practically pushing me into grandchildren for her as soon as I was able.

 

She THE BEST teenage pregnancy lecture ever:

 

"Dreamingoftigers, it is totally okay if you end up pregnant. Don't be scared to tell me and don't have an abortion. Your father and I will raise it!"

 

HAH! It totally freaked me out thinking of an innocent baby being raised in that nuthouse. It delayed me losing my virginity for years, after that, I was super-paranoid about using protection. Mostly, I preferred to give oral as it was "safer." My husband is the only man I have had unprotected sex with.

 

Even so, we've been together 11 years and I am only on my second pregnancy now. My daughter is 6.

 

Ugh. She bugged me for years and years to have a child. I didn't have my daughter until I was 26.

[Cherryz]

We all make mistakes. Im sure you to as kid and adult now.

She may get annoyed to by your naive behavior or so. But still

she loved you. And bear with you.

You know there are people that dont even have a mother

or that care for them. Or never met her cause she died after birth. Or wish

some adult could have warn them of things.

 

Some things are not even worth it to do or to fight about.

 

I understand your mom can be worried as a parent.

But in this case it may be also that she went true sexual abuse or some

kind of bad experience with man when she was younger and trys to look out for you

bye warning you always when its about a male.

 

Even thou it can also be a normal warning from a mom that have seen the world

before you. But if its "extreme" it could be that she been true things she try to protect you about.

 

On one hand you should be thankful. But if the way its been brought to you

is making you feel some type of way you can adress it to her in a calm way.

And if it not help, find your own way of dealing with it.

Maybe by start a other topic when she starts about it.

 

At the end its your mom. And you dont want to keep no contact and be angry about

patty stuff and find out later she dies and you regret not have been spending time with her. Life is short.

[Els]

I support asserting boundaries. But asserting boundaries does not have to come with cutting off all contact - that should be a last resort, and personally I don't see anything your mum did that warranted such an extreme reaction. Sure she was being annoying, but that's what families do - they annoy each other.

 

Whenever my mother says anything like what yours did, I just laugh and say, "Come ON, mum." If she persists I just don't participate in the conversation until she changes the topic. But I still love her and know she loves me, so I would never cut off contact entirely unless she was being blatantly abusive.

 

That being said, I understand that maintaining boundaries simultaneously with maintaining your relationship with your parents can be a tricky balancing act. I understand that it takes a lot of time and patience - I'm pretty sure I haven't got it all down yet myself. But you shouldn't make cutting off contact your first line of defense - you need to at least try other strategies first.

 

(Oops, just read that you're back in contact with her. Happy to hear that!)

[SpiralOut]

She has turned her attention to my boyfriend. It is subtle but it's there. We are visiting for Xmas right now. Tonight he put some dishes away and she said "oh you've been trained well."

 

Last time we were up he washed his hands and she said "oh you washed your hands. Good for you!"

 

She talks to him as if he's a monkey. So far I've been overhearing things from the next room over. From now on I will be more careful about leaving him alone with her so if she says something again I can say something. It's weird to watch her do it to another person, someone besides me.

[BettyDraper]

I'm glad that you're back in contact with your mother. I do not get along with my mother but we still talk on the phone. It is helpful that she doesn't live in the same country.

 

Maybe it could be helpful to minimize your in person contact with your mother.

She shouldn't speak to your boyfriend like that at all and with the kind of personality your mother has, I don't know if talking to her about the way she speaks to your boyfriend will make a difference. I wonder if ignoring the behavior would be a better strategy as some people just enjoy getting a rise out of others.

[SpiralOut]

She's not doing it to get a rise out of anyone. She says whatever makes her feel better without considering how it affects others. I am not sure why she has turned her attention to someone outside the family. I have not witnessed it before. I've noticed she directs her attention to him when she talks. I guess because the rest of us only half pay attention to her, and he gives full attention to her. I warned him about her and he didn't really know what I meant. He is starting to get it now (he complained about what she said to him)

 

I don't even know what I would say to her the next time I catch her being condescending to him. I don't know why she is acting this way. He is super nice to them both.

 

And I'm not willing to ignore it. After all the **** she pulled with me, no way am I going to watch her insult my partner.

Edited January 2, 2016 by SpiralOut

[BettyDraper]

She's not doing it to get a rise out of anyone. She says whatever makes her feel better without considering how it affects others. I am not sure why she has turned her attention to someone outside the family. I have not witnessed it before. I've noticed she directs her attention to him when she talks. I guess because the rest of us only half pay attention to her, and he gives full attention to her. I warned him about her and he didn't really know what I meant. He is starting to get it now (he complained about what she said to him)

 

I don't even know what I would say to her the next time I catch her being condescending to him. I don't know why she is acting this way. He is super nice to them both.

 

And I'm not willing to ignore it. After all the **** she pulled with me, no way am I going to watch her insult my partner.

 

You have every right to confront your mother and I wouldn't let my mother insult my husband either. I just suggested ignoring your mother because I thought she was trying to get a reaction out of you. My mistake.

 

It could be that your mother is turning on your boyfriend because she thinks that she can do that with no consequences. Maybe she is also unhappy that you are happy as well. Either way, her behavior is not acceptable.

[soph-walker]

I am not planning to ignore her forever, just to be clear.

 

I'm not really sure how my not being a mother yet makes it okay for my mother to cross boundaries with me. It doesn't. It's not okay for her to act that way. There is so much more to this story that I'm not saying.

 

But I understand what you're trying to say.

 

I relate to this experience so much.

 

My mother is very similar in all of what you have said and she often tells me and my sister we won't understand why she is a bit of a busybody until we have children of our own.

 

You've not mentioned your father much, assuming your parents still together, what does he make of this?

 

I often wonder if my mother acts the way she does is because my father has never really given me or my sister any parenting or guidance in life and therefore my mom has picked up the slack and been both the mom and the dad.

 

It must be frustrating for you as I imagine you just want a 'normal' mother/daughter relationship, but I would definitely raise it and air what's on your mind.

 

I had a chat with my mom this afternoon and things feel much more resolved.

[StarGazerGirl]

It took me several days to read through the thread. I found it as a result of yet another random google search for 'not talking to mom'. It's been a very helpful read. At the first few pages, I could relate and as it progressed I was intrigued that it was steadily updated for so long. It was nice to see the changes in you, Spiral.

 

I can relate to a lot of your story and what you've been feeling. There are many differences, of course, but enough similarities that I found myself wondering 'we probably have a lot of the same placements in our birth charts'. Astrology is one outlet of self-reflection for me. : ) I'm not totally devoted to it but it has been interesting.

 

I recently had to build a 'brick wall' between my mother and I. I see no other way for now.

 

Since you've read the book 'Will I Ever Be Good Enough?'... I'm the self-sabatogging type. ( but not really ). I'm an adult and I live with my family. I'm unemployed.

 

I'm still figuring out, with the help of a therapist and lots of work on my own, where my mom fits on the spectrum. I don't know how big this iceberg is.

 

I'm the second born and for a long time now, I've been the scapegoat. I've always been very introverted. As a very young teen, I met a boy. My mom never guided me on such things as sex or life skills and things like that, for the most part. Mom allowed this boy to sleep over. My Dad, the enabler, as I realize now, didn't stop it. Us kids did whatever we wanted. I'm sure my Father didn't approve but mom ran things.

 

Boyfriend and I ended up being together for many years, mostly unhappily, until he found someone new and left.

 

Anyhow, it's so difficult to compact it all, It all seems so scattered. My coping method has manifested itself as internet introversion in addition to real-life introversion. I spend most of my time isolated and yet I don't do any social media.

 

I carry a lot of shame for being in such an intense relationship so young. I didn't know any better. I resent my mom for allowing it without even guiding me in any significant way. I believe my boyfriend was a narcissist. He was more like a son for my mom, I guess. She and my Dad always wanted a son. Also, considering now that she may be in the mid-range of narcissism ( it's been subtle and insidious ), I feel that it was a way for her to sabotage my life. I truly believe that she saw me as very fitting to be a mom, myself, at that age. Yes, I chose to stay with him but by the time I was old enough to truly understand the situation, I feel, the damage had already been done.

 

...among many other people who are helping me, I highly recommend to everyone Jerry Wise's videos and John Bradshaw. : ) This series called, Homecoming, is all on Youtube ( for now ).

 

I hope the thread continues.

Edited March 2, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[StarGazerGirl]

I realize what I've shared doesn't exactly relate much to the rest of the thread... I guess I've just been searching a long time for a candid, in-depth discussion on the topic and this one filled the need.

 

I'll jot down some things that are similar...

 

 

➳ Mom and Dad are still together

➳ Dad is an enabler

➳ I've always had a decent relationship with Dad despite now seeing him in a new light ( enabler ), that relationship is now strained.

➳ I've always been strong-willed and noticed 'something' was off in my family.

➳ I questioned, heavily, if I was on the autism spectrum as an attempt to understand myself better.

➳ My mom said once "that's why you are the way you are" which instilled in me the thought that 'I' was, somehow, wrong.

➳ I'm very quiet and introverted

➳ I push people away

➳ My mom uses triangulation against me with other family members

➳ I place a huge value on honesty in all forms

➳ I don't hate my mom and I want to find a way to have a healthy relationship with her.

➳ I'm open to see things from many angles ie. The power on Now♥, etc.

➳ I often perceive that others don't like me

➳ I love gardening, plants, growing food / nature - it's a passion

 

I, however, am not on my own. I dream of moving away from my family ( at least for a while ) and away from this huge city ( where I don't feel I belong ) and starting my own life in a small town with a Tiny House ( on a foundation, not on wheels ) of my own. But, I don't drive, I fear driving. I tried twice and I failed twice for my license.

[turnera]

Are you in therapy?

[StarGazerGirl]

Are you in therapy?

 

Me? Yes, thankfully, I have been in therapy now for the past ten months, twice a week but I'm still stuck.

[turnera]

In what way?

[StarGazerGirl]

In what way?

 

I just wrote a whole reply to this but I think I took, too, long and the site logged me out while I was writing. When I hit 'reply', it was all lost.

 

I'm sorry... I have no energy to reply again right now... Internet Introversion is a real thing.

[StarGazerGirl]

Hi, I'd just like to have a few details here changed, if possible, as I'm afraid I could be identified. Edits are included in the paragraph below. Thank you!

 

~~~~~

 

It's so frustrating that the last post didn't actually post. It takes long / a lot of effort to gather my thoughts and then type it out in a way that makes sense to others.

 

I'm stuck in so many ways. To sum it up, I want & need financial independence = freedom, generally speaking.

 

I had to move back with my parents when my boyfriend left. I'm dependent on them for a place to live but take care of all other expenses for myself. I live extremely frugally so I've been getting by.

 

I know what I have to do but, it seems I've been mentally paralyzed, depressed and anxious my whole life. I feel it has a lot to do with my past and... my mom. I'm not saying I'm a victim. I take full responsibility for my life but part of that means knowing what was the responsibility of my mom.

 

It's just so much to deal with. I feel like I'm trapped in this life and I'm forced to live it but if it were up to me, I'd be out of here. I doubt my intuition, decisions and sometimes my reality. I guess that's what happens in these situations.

 

Edit: I see what happened before you hit reply to post and then you have to log in again. I didn't do that before.

Edited March 5, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Member request ~T

[amaysngrace]

It's so frustrating that the last post didn't actually post. It takes long / a lot of effort to gather my thoughts and then type it out in a way that makes sense to others.

 

Edit: I see what happened before you hit reply to post and then you have to log in again. I didn't do that before.

 

When you sign in click the "remember me" box and you shouldn't get bumped out during your post.