Compromises

[whichwayisup]

I've been afraid that he was going to cheat on me like he did her now that we're together. I bring it up allot and it gets on his nerves. He told me that if he was gonna cheat, he woulda already done it. He said all the stuff about it all being hippocritical because he was frustrated about me bringing it up in counselling again. He's right on both counts tho. It is hippocritical for me to expect him to be faithful when I let him be unfaithful to someone else and it's up to me to deal with my fears.

 

After reading some threads and comments today, it's not worth it.

Thanks for being nice to me.

 

I think any OW or OM who ends up with their MM or MW will end up having trust issues due to the fact they knew firsthand that the MM/MW was good at lying and deceiving every single day at home with their BS.

 

And with that said, with the love and support of the MW/MM - They can make it easier by being understanding and patient, reaffirm their love .. ANd also get some counselling to get rid of habits and rid of the affair dynamic..

 

Anyway, you are doing what is best for you.

Edited July 12, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Silly_Girl]

I think any OW or OM who ends up with their MM or MW will end up having trust issues due to the fact they knew firsthand that the MM/MW was good at lying and deceiving every single day at home with their BS.

 

 

I never once thought he was interested in anyone else. Genuinely. I was mightily pissed off with some bad habits but never got close to thinking that. Even though my bad R left me suspicious and jealous.

 

So I don't think it's inevitable. The relationship itself is a factor, as is how the affair evolved, and the state of the M in the first place. And much other stuff.

 

I do agree that a person has more right to be untrusting of someone who's had an affair, but as ever I don't think there as hard and fast rules.

[MissBee]

I been thinkin about this to cuz my counsellor told me that if you keep accepting something even reluctantly, it becomes acceptance Not compromise know what I mean?

Like if I told him I wanted a real R, and he stayed married and I stayed in the A, even though I told him what I wanted, I was accepting the A by staying in it. Not compromising. Same with the cheating I think now to. He won't go to IC, even tho the couples counsellor wants him to. So if he keeps behaving like he did and I stay, I'm accepting his behavior right?

 

This is so true!

 

And yes you would be accepted. Compromise is two way. Someone refusing to do something and you saying "Okay" is just accepting it. Even if you don't say okay, if they continue not meeting your terms and you continue staying then you've accepted it.

[Radagast]

If a MM or MW divorces and is going to cheat on their AP, aka new and out in the open partner, they're gonna do it reguardless of an ultimatum or not.

 

I would disagree with this. If a married person leaves their marriage because they are ready to do so, they will walk away from the marriage and never look back. They will look forward and hopefully embrace the changes required of them to participate in a healthy relationship, through counselling and full commitment and developing self-awareness and other skills required to prevent a recurrence of what led to the infidelity.

 

If a married person leaves their marriage before they are ready to do so, they may well waver in their commitment to their new partner, still having residual feelings for their ex, or unresolved issues they are resistant to addressing fully through counselling because deep inside they still harbour doubts about whether leaving was the right thing to do, having done so under pressure or through fear of losing the affair partner. It is much more likely, in my opinion and from what I have read on the matter, that people in such a situation would fall prey to the temptation to engage in further infidelity, whether with their ex or with somebody new.

 

My own experience of having left a marriage when I was ready to do so, to start a new life with my former affair partner, resonates with everything I have researched on this subject.

[woinlove]

I would disagree with this. If a married person leaves their marriage because they are ready to do so, they will walk away from the marriage and never look back. They will look forward and hopefully embrace the changes required of them to participate in a healthy relationship, through counselling and full commitment and developing self-awareness and other skills required to prevent a recurrence of what led to the infidelity.

 

If a married person leaves their marriage before they are ready to do so, they may well waver in their commitment to their new partner, still having residual feelings for their ex, or unresolved issues they are resistant to addressing fully through counselling because deep inside they still harbour doubts about whether leaving was the right thing to do, having done so under pressure or through fear of losing the affair partner. It is much more likely, in my opinion and from what I have read on the matter, that people in such a situation would fall prey to the temptation to engage in further infidelity, whether with their ex or with somebody new.

 

My own experience of having left a marriage when I was ready to do so, to start a new life with my former affair partner, resonates with everything I have researched on this subject.

 

I don't see things this black and white or so clearly divided. People are more complex than that. I think if you reflect, you might see this as I know you feel you were ready and yet so many of your posts years later expressed such hostility to your exW, showing that even when you are ready, things are not completely finished. There is no clear dividing line between ready and not ready. Some people will think they are ready and then live to regret their decision, perhaps only coming to that realization a decade later! Some people will feel not ready, make the move because they are unhappy, and live to think of it as one of the best decisions they ever made.

 

Also, I agree with wwiu's implication that people who chose to cheat do so because of who they are and unless they change that, they are likely to repeat the behavior. Changing spouses does not in itself change a person. If a person firmly decides they want to become a person who does not deceive and betray their spouse and figures out how to become that person, then they are unlikely to cheat.

 

eta: I get the sense that the thread on "waiting until one is ready is a myth" has stimulated a lot of good discussion even as it pushed many buttons. this is not directed toward any one post here, just something I see running through a number of current posts.

Edited July 12, 2012 by woinlove

[frozensprouts]

. Changing spouses does not in itself change a person. If a person firmly decides they want to become a person who does not deceive and betray their spouse and figures out how to become that person, then they are unlikely to cheat.

.

 

 

this makes so much sense, and melds perfectly with one of the things so often said on here- both in this forum and also in the infidelity section...

 

in both sides, we re told that a wayward spouses / married manor woman's cheating is becuse of something in them. The responsibility lies not with the betrayed spouse nor the other man/woman.

 

If this is the case, then there is nothing that anyone can do/ not do to make this formerly married person choose the be faithful to one person...the only one who can do that is themselves, and the circumstances of their making a decision will probably not change them...they are who they are, and if they are to learn other ways of solving problems in a relationship, it will take a lot of introspection, counseling, etc....will they be willing to do that? Some may, some may not.

 

In my humble opinion, if an other man/other woman wants to be the only romantic interest in their affair partner's life, they need to take a stand. Unless they are willing to wait for years and years for something that may never happen ( a lot of the time it seems like the married person only leaves when they have no other choice- their spouse has kicked them out or is seeking a divorce because of the cheating).

 

Unless one is willing to keep on being used by their married affair partner, then why not take a stand? Why not make an ultimatum? Why not stand up for yourself to get what you want? If the only thing hat is keeping one from doing so is that they are afraid that their married person may run for the hills, then what does that say?

 

Why keep on getting less than what you want because you are too afraid to ask for more?

[frozensprouts]

The man who responds to ultimatums or being pushed may indeed be ready to leave the marriage, just need that final push, but he may also be someone who does not commit strongly to any woman.

 

 

the how on earth is waiting going to change that? He ( or she) is what he is...waiting or giving an ultimatum won't change them...

 

they are what they are, and it would seem like the only choice that one would have if they want to be with them would be to accept that they simply don't have the make-up in them to be with only one person...one can make whatever excuses they want for this behavior, but that won't change anything...being with them would mean accepting who they are and that you can't change that

 

the only thing that will change this about them is some real self knowledge and introspection ( and that means recognizing that their behavior comes from within, and can not be blamed on any external factors) and most likely some heavy duty therapy.

[Spark1111]

the how on earth is waiting going to change that? He ( or she) is what he is...waiting or giving an ultimatum won't change them...

 

they are what they are, and it would seem like the only choice that one would have if they want to be with them would be to accept that they simply don't have the make-up in them to be with only one person...one can make whatever excuses they want for this behavior, but that won't change anything...being with them would mean accepting who they are and that you can't change that

 

the only thing that will change this about them is some real self knowledge and introspection ( and that means recognizing that their behavior comes from within, and can not be blamed on any external factors) and most likely some heavy duty therapy.

 

I agree with this!

I believe most people do not change, do not see or feel that they need to change, unless circumstances happen to force them to.

 

As long as they are enabled, or made to feel their actions are understood and therefore, good enough, why would they even bother?

 

It's this line of thinking: She understands me so well, and accepts me and my motivations, I am comfortable NOT changing my actions or behaviors.

 

Lucky man......I guess.

I

[Furious]

In a healthy relationship compromise is essential.

 

In a relationship that is secret, compromise essentially means accepting less than what it is you truly want.

 

 

"I can accept anything, except what seems the easiest, for most people: the half-way, the almost, and just about, the in-between."

Ayn Rand

[woinlove]

A man who has a strong sense of duty and thus is committed to his marriage vows yet falls in love with another woman and enters an EMR is not likely to respond to ultimatums or to being pushed to leave the marriage. Such a man, if he indeed ever gets a divorce, is likely to also commit to his next relationship. In fact, the danger here is if the man once again feels bound to fulfill a promise, thus you may want to think twice before marrying such a man.

 

The man who responds to ultimatums or being pushed may indeed be ready to leave the marriage, just need that final push, but he may also be someone who does not commit strongly to any woman.

 

Re the bolded, unless his marriage vows allowed for him falling in love with another woman and having an EMR, I don't see how he could possibly be committed to his marriage vows. Wanting to stay married does not mean one is committed to one's marriage vows. Some people want to stay married, yet do not want to honor their marriage vows -- they may want to stay married by making their spouse believe they are honoring their marriage vows while secretly doing the opposite.

 

An ultimatum typically means saying something like "I need this in order to continue in this R". It is a rather extreme step as it means one is ready to otherwise leave the R. However, affairs are often intense in themselves as most people don't actually want to be involved in a triangle involving deception, but are only putting up with it temporarily. In that context, ultimatums don't seem so extreme. As to someone responding to an ultimatum and being pushed - often, it is simply a person deciding what they want given the possibilities presented to them.

[whichwayisup]

I've been afraid that he was going to cheat on me like he did her now that we're together. I bring it up allot and it gets on his nerves. He told me that if he was gonna cheat, he woulda already done it. He said all the stuff about it all being hippocritical because he was frustrated about me bringing it up in counselling again. He's right on both counts tho. It is hippocritical for me to expect him to be faithful when I let him be unfaithful to someone else and it's up to me to deal with my fears.

 

After reading some threads and comments today, it's not worth it.

Thanks for being nice to me.

 

You're welcome Daisy.

 

Not all MM or MW end up cheating on their AP's.. Yours though is questionnable because of how he treats you and how he treated his wife.

 

A man who has a strong sense of duty and thus is committed to his marriage vows

 

A man who has a strong sense of duty won't cheat at all. He won't let himself get close to, or fall for another woman PERIOD.

[cocorico]

I think any OW or OM who ends up with their MM or MW will end up having trust issues due to the fact they knew firsthand that the MM/MW was good at lying and deceiving every single day at home with their BS.

 

.

 

Not even close! No trust issues at all!

 

He's shown me consistently over the years that he's committed to and focused on being the best partner he can, that the aberration has been addressed and is firmly in the past, that he will never again allow himself to compromise his values the way he did in that M and that he can only live authentically now. He's happy, he's productive, he's back to being himself as his family knew him and he will never let that go again.

 

I was there. I saw how he struggled in the A. I saw the costs. It's not something he would willingly do again. He did it once because the benefits far outweighed the costs. Now, there would only be costs. He's a smart man, why would he do something that profoundly stupid?

[mercy]

So, is the man with a strong sense of duty really who he says he is and is he really compromising anything? I mean, isn't the true character of a man known when no-one is looking. Maybe the facade is his strong sense of duty.

 

The man my sister was involved with said he was all these things but his actions showed him to be someone else. His strong sense of duty protected him when my sister would ask, when are you leaving. She fell in love with who he said he was, she was freed of him when she finally realized his true nature. In the end truth be told he never compromised a damn thing to be with her. When her eyes were opened he just moved on to another who wasn't so wise to him.

 

His strong moral character and all.

[mercy]

 

A man who has a strong sense of duty won't cheat at all. He won't let himself get close to, or fall for another woman PERIOD.

 

Period.

 

100% agree.

[cocorico]

 

Unless one is willing to keep on being used by their married affair partner, then why not take a stand?

 

What an interesting notion - that being in a R is being used! Is being M also being used - or does the diamond on your finger make it all better?

[cocorico]

the how on earth is waiting going to change that? He ( or she) is what he is...waiting or giving an ultimatum won't change them...

 

.

 

Waiting? How about, having a R with? I wasn't waiting during my A, I was having the best time of my life! If your R - any R, not just an A - feels like waiting rather than having a wonderful time, then you should not be in it, IMO!

[cocorico]

 

Isn't it interesting that an OW/OM can "force" a cheater to continue to be a cheater in some peoples' opinions? !

 

I've never seen anybody claim that an OW or OM can force a "cheater" to continue to be a cheater. Please post a link or show where these mythical posts are because I've looked and I can't find any on LS. Perhaps on another forum elsewhere?

[woinlove]

Waiting? How about, having a R with? I wasn't waiting during my A, I was having the best time of my life! If your R - any R, not just an A - feels like waiting rather than having a wonderful time, then you should not be in it, IMO!

 

FP was asking how waiting would change a man who doesn't commit to any woman. and her earlier post you also partially quoted was about an OW/OM who wanted more than she/he was getting from the affair. Perhaps neither of these are relevant to you, but it doesn't detract from their relevancy to many cases. Most OW/OM posting on LS are not happy that their R is an A.

[woinlove]

I've never seen anybody claim that an OW or OM can force a "cheater" to continue to be a cheater. Please post a link or show where these mythical posts are because I've looked and I can't find any on LS. Perhaps on another forum elsewhere?

 

I don't know about forcing, but the idea has been put forward that if an AP gives a MM/MW an ultimatum this may lead to the MM/MW cheating in the future. I don't agree with that idea and think it is something internal to the person which allows him or her to deceive and betray their spouse/partner. However, I'm interested in further arguments as to how an ultimatum could make someone cheat sometime in the future, someone who would otherwise act honestly and with integrity.

[MissBee]

What an interesting notion - that being in a R is being used! Is being M also being used - or does the diamond on your finger make it all better?

 

If you browse LS, even the very first page, you'll find many threads from OW/OM who feel like they are being used by the MP. Particularly, those who are waiting for the day that the relationship can graduate to an open relationship.

 

It's rather...silly...to act like all relationships are created equally. They aren't. Even the fact that this section of LS exists, suggests that people see some difference between normal dating and those in a relationship with someone married to another person and they are dating secretly.

 

I doubt anyone was saying that being in a relationship in and of itself is a form of being used. But certain kinds of relationships can reveal that that's exactly what's going on. You can be used in your marriage as well...mind you. However, back on the topic of compromise, I'd say, any relationship that includes one person having to bend more while the other person gets to go at the speed they want, they're the one who decides if the relationship will graduate to the next level, they keep changing their minds or they never make up their mind...that's a relationship that probably has a lot of using going on and an unequal distribution of powers. This is not a relationship where the people involved are co-pilots, but rather, driver and passenger.

Edited July 12, 2012 by MissBee

[frozensprouts]

The small compromises that are part and parcel of being in a relationship probably don't matter much...they most likely don't cause someone to go against their values system or to become someone they don't know or do things they don't really like...

 

It's the big compromises that are the problem. It doesn't matter if it's an affair or a marriage,dating or friendship...if one feels uncomfortable about the compromises they make to be in the relationship, there is a problem...

 

the longer one puts up with that, the worse it gets...their relationship partner learns just how much they can get away with ( kind of like a toddler testing the rules set out by his/her parents) and they'll just keep on pushing that boundary,

 

that's when the excuses start...but what kind of relationship is it where one side feels they constantly have to excuse, explain or rationalize their partner's behavior to themselves?

[frozensprouts]

What an interesting notion - that being in a R is being used! Is being M also being used - or does the diamond on your finger make it all better?

 

yes it does, thank you very much:laugh:

( Just kidding...I don't have a diamond...never wanted one)

 

and yes, in some relationships, one side is being used, and are giving one h@ll of a lot more than they are getting back...

 

in an awful lot of affairs ( and other relationships too) one person hs to give up a huge amount in order for the relationship to exist...

 

many relationships are symbiotic, but these types are more like host/parasite

[MissBee]

The small compromises that are part and parcel of being in a relationship probably don't matter much...they most likely don't cause someone to go against their values system or to become someone they don't know or do things they don't really like...

It's the big compromises that are the problem. It doesn't matter if it's an affair or a marriage,dating or friendship...if one feels uncomfortable about the compromises they make to be in the relationship, there is a problem...

the longer one puts up with that, the worse it gets...their relationship partner learns just how much they can get away with ( kind of like a toddler testing the rules set out by his/her parents) and they'll just keep on pushing that boundary,

 

that's when the excuses start...but what kind of relationship is it where one side feels they constantly have to excuse, explain or rationalize their partner's behavior to themselves?

 

Ditto.

 

All kinds of relationships can include unhealthy compromise or one-sided compromise.

 

It just so happens that in an A, the incidences may be higher.

 

 

that's when the excuses start...but what kind of relationship is it where one side feels they constantly have to excuse, explain or rationalize their partner's behavior to themselves?

 

For me, this is my marker to run for the hills. If I need to explain, rationalize, justify etc. I can't be bothered. Chances are, if you have a relationship where you can't just be, it's probably questionable. I've yet to see the A that requires little to no explanation, rationalization, justification, deceit.

 

I do get that life is not perfect and that people get into As...but I think the marker of a person with good character and who is unwilling to settle, as well as one who doesn't want to have their partner compromise too much, is one who speedily corrects things. However, if one shows a willingness to do nothing, fence sit and hand hold for all eternity....then as you rightly said, most people will continue to test the boundary and will see no need to do better as you sure don't seem to demand more and it sure seems like you're marching to the beat of THEIR drum.

 

OW have said they are willing to accept the R because of the man, they'd rather have him in any form, than none. I do think this is effed up. I really do. But this sentiment encapsulates the problem of compromise in an A, where it is often not really compromise, just a form of acceptance of another's terms, that appears mutually beneficial; and they'll make you none the wiser. It's like doing a job and not knowing how much you should really be paid and how much you're worth so your employer pays you way less. But to you the pay seems fantastic, while the boss is actually benefiting more as they're saving money and you're doing all the labor. It's only when you find out the truth about what you're worth that you may come to realize your boss wasn't being fair or doing you any favors but was exploiting the situation, and you were all too happy to agree before you realized the truth.

Edited July 12, 2012 by MissBee

[jwi71]

I haven't read the whole thread - just skimmed it.

 

But.

 

I was struck how some claim to make no compromises. I think it was Cocorico. How does this work? I would love to always get my way . How does your MM (is it MM or is he your H now) not feel resentful?

 

And, on broader terms, I cannot see how every OW doesn't compromise <something>.

Time is the easiest one really. How does an OW NOT compromise her want if her MM has to go home that night? Has she not compromised what she wants based solely on the MM's need to get home (presumably to keep the BS in the dark)? To me, it seems the OW compromises herself (her desire for more time) when her MM has to "get home".

 

It's a sad deference to his W and his M. Repeatedly.

How is that not a compromise and compromising?

[Furious]

Exactly why you shouldn't be in a relationship if you are "waiting" instead of enjoying the relationship. You may end up feeling used!

 

So, if you're enjoying the affair and not putting a time limit to it, that it can go on for as long as WS wants, then you're not compromising and not being used.