cocorico Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 When I say values like loyalty and honesty are important to me, I mean I strive to live my life according to these values, to encourage them in others, to bring people into my close circle who share these values, and to avoid situations which compromise these values in myself or in those I connect with. I take it you mean something different? Yes. I live my life by my values but I respect the choices of others to live their lives according their own values, rather than trying to convert them to mine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
cocorico Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Compromising your own values is detrimental. I've seen so many examples of how former OW are hurting because they compromised their values by being in the EMR. Then they project their emotions on all EMRs. I strongly recommend not going against your moral compass. It prevents you from owning your choices and your history. If you are true to your morals during the EMR, you won't feel bad about having been in an EMR afterwards. And the additional benefit: you can let others make their own choices without trying to convince them they are settling or in denial or whatever. Very sage advice. Link to post Share on other sites
woinlove Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Yes. I live my life by my values but I respect the choices of others to live their lives according their own values, rather than trying to convert them to mine. This doesn't quite address what I was getting at by living according to my values. For example, if I discover a colleague is given misinformation about a job opening in order to unfairly disadvantage her, I would try to correct that situation because such I find such dishonesty unethical and I don't like to see people treated unfairly/unkindly. The deception involved in affairs brings in many of the same issues and, similarly, I strive towards honesty, fairness and kindness and, in particular, try to avoid contributing to or encouraging the opposite. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Compromising your own values is detrimental. I've seen so many examples of how former OW are hurting because they compromised their values by being in the EMR. Then they project their emotions on all EMRs. I strongly recommend not going against your moral compass. It prevents you from owning your choices and your history. If you are true to your morals during the EMR, you won't feel bad about having been in an EMR afterwards. And the additional benefit: you can let others make their own choices without trying to convince them they are settling or in denial or whatever. maybe I have misunderstood you here... you strongly recommend that people not go against their moral compass, but if being in an affair ( and please don't quibble over semantics) goes against their moral compass, then the only way that they could ever not go against their own value system would be to no be in the affair in the first place. To do otherwise would require that one change their morals and values system to suit the circumstances...this goes against owning your own choices and history... someone who doesn't agree with infidelity or affairs or heating or whatever the heck term one wishes to use...they get involved with a married person anyway- they aren't happy, and the affair ends saying ' I don't agree with infidelity, but was okay in this circumstance because of x, y or z." is not owning your behavior... saying" I made a mistake and got involved with a married person...but I'm human, I can learn from my mistakes and I won't make them again" is owning your behavior 2 Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 This doesn't quite address what I was getting at by living according to my values. For example, if I discover a colleague is given misinformation about a job opening in order to unfairly disadvantage her, I would try to correct that situation because such I find such dishonesty unethical and I don't like to see people treated unfairly/unkindly. The deception involved in affairs brings in many of the same issues and, similarly, I strive towards honesty, fairness and kindness and, in particular, try to avoid contributing to or encouraging the opposite. and these seem to be your core values...you don't seem to pick and choose from them in order to suit the occasion the way a chameleon changes his color to suit the temperature ( sorry for the weird analogy)... you value honesty, respect , kindness and dignity. you want these things for yourself, and you treat others the same way... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author MissBee Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) There are hardly any OW/OM who come on LS to say that an EMR is exactly what they've always wanted and it is perfectly aligned with their value system. Very few. Most admit it isn't. Most admit if their MM had another OW they'd be upset. Most say they feel badly and conflicted. Most say they never expected to be in that position. Most say they'd never do it again and most engage in the relationship in spite of all this. Doing something in spite of is very different than doing something because you've always felt it was a perfect fit for your morals. A lot feel like they're being pragmatic. Few feel like As are splendid things that they'd shout from the roof because it aligns so well with their beliefs. Many will find a way to make it okay in their minds "just this time" or find a way to make it such that it's okay if they do it, but not if it is done to them. Something cannot be consistent with your morals, if when done to you, you have a problem with it. Unless you have very shaky morals that bend and sway with the wind and are selective and convenient anyway. I think most LS members try to question and ask OW/OM who seem contradictory in what they believe, and who've expressed their conflict, to reconsider or assess their situation through different eyes. If today you say you don't like that your MM is married and you wouldn't want him to cheat on you and you "never thought you'd be an OW" and you don't want to hurt anyone...those are the people most try to convince to do what aligns with these expressed sentiments and values. When such people go from that to saying it doesn't compromise their values, sane people read that as that person simply rationalizing and justifying and yes settling. I can't stop bringing up my friend who as the deeper she gets in the A, the more she bargains and twists her values so that she doesn't feel badly about it...yet those who know her well know that's what she's doing.I personally have never tried to convince an OW who says she's happy and an A is her perfect cup of tea in every way and aligned with her values to do something different.There aren't too many like that here anyway, most come with conflicts and contradictions and most people reach out to those folks because of this dissonance. Edited July 10, 2012 by MissBee 3 Link to post Share on other sites
daisy love Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Yes. I live my life by my values but I respect the choices of others to live their lives according their own values, rather than trying to convert them to mine.I'm priddy much this way to but guess what? In couple's therapy last week, I said I was worried about him doing to me what he did to his wife. OMG my sweedy asked me if I new what a hippocrit I was to let him cheat on his wife but to expect that he'll be faithful to me! He said "Oh that's rich. It was okay with you when I was running around on her, but it's different with you, princess," OMG. I'm so confused about this because he's kinda right and kinda not and I don't think he'd cheat cuz he loves me but I don't want to live my life checking up on him. Link to post Share on other sites
truthbetold Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I'm priddy much this way to but guess what? In couple's therapy last week, I said I was worried about him doing to me what he did to his wife. OMG my sweedy asked me if I new what a hippocrit I was to let him cheat on his wife but to expect that he'll be faithful to me! He said "Oh that's rich. It was okay with you when I was running around on her, but it's different with you, princess," OMG. I'm so confused about this because he's kinda right and kinda not and I don't think he'd cheat cuz he loves me but I don't want to live my life checking up on him. Not confusing at all Daisy. You may think it is bc you don't like what you're hearing. When a man tells you who is. BELIEVE HIM. He did you the biggest favor in telling you right now don't expect fidelity from him. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
alexandria35 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I'm priddy much this way to but guess what? In couple's therapy last week, I said I was worried about him doing to me what he did to his wife. OMG my sweedy asked me if I new what a hippocrit I was to let him cheat on his wife but to expect that he'll be faithful to me! He said "Oh that's rich. It was okay with you when I was running around on her, but it's different with you, princess," OMG. I'm so confused about this because he's kinda right and kinda not and I don't think he'd cheat cuz he loves me but I don't want to live my life checking up on him. Well he's right. How can it be okay to cheat on her but not on you? He is a cheater. Do you seriously not see the hypocrisy in that? Maybe he won't cheat on you as long as he loves you but what is his definition of love? If he gets bored with you, if his lust wanes, will he decide he doesn't love you anymore and then cheat? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I'm priddy much this way to but guess what? In couple's therapy last week, I said I was worried about him doing to me what he did to his wife. OMG my sweedy asked me if I new what a hippocrit I was to let him cheat on his wife but to expect that he'll be faithful to me! He said "Oh that's rich. It was okay with you when I was running around on her, but it's different with you, princess," OMG. I'm so confused about this because he's kinda right and kinda not and I don't think he'd cheat cuz he loves me but I don't want to live my life checking up on him. I give this guy credit for at least being honest... it sounds like he knows it isn't in his nature to be with only one person, and he's letting you know that upfront... in his case, being with you in a monogamous relationship would be a compromise for him Link to post Share on other sites
Author MissBee Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) I give this guy credit for at least being honest... it sounds like he knows it isn't in his nature to be with only one person, and he's letting you know that upfront... in his case, being with you in a monogamous relationship would be a compromise for him That's one of the criteria I have for my future husband. I want someone who is naturally monogamous. Whose inclination and predisposition is to be with one woman at a time. I do believe some people are not naturally this way and perhaps would TRY to do it and compromise in order to suit me...but I'd rather them not. I don't want them to end up resenting me or themselves for it. Edited July 11, 2012 by MissBee Link to post Share on other sites
Radagast Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I'm priddy much this way to but guess what? In couple's therapy last week, I said I was worried about him doing to me what he did to his wife. OMG my sweedy asked me if I new what a hippocrit I was to let him cheat on his wife but to expect that he'll be faithful to me! He said "Oh that's rich. It was okay with you when I was running around on her, but it's different with you, princess," OMG. I'm so confused about this because he's kinda right and kinda not and I don't think he'd cheat cuz he loves me but I don't want to live my life checking up on him. I'm not entirely sure how your post relates to the one you quoted, but it seems to me there is a mismatch in the values you hold dear and the values your "sweedy" embraces. Sexual fidelity appears not to matter to him, and appears to matter to you situationally (as in, it's fine if it's done to others, it's not fine if it's done to you.) My ex-wife was like you in that regard. She was conceptually opposed to the notion of sexual fidelity, as it "oppressed women", and practiced that by having an affair in her first marriage, but at the same time objected vehemently when that was done to her. Sexual infidelity was fine for her, but not for others especially not for anyone involved with her. Given the different values here, at least one of you will have to compromise your values if your relationship persists. He will either have to compromise his "right" to sexual non-monogamy, or you will have to compromise your expectation of sexual fidelity. You will both need to decide whether this is a dealbreaker for you - whether you are only prepared to continue the relationship if he changes, or from his side if he's only prepared to continue the relationship if you change. Either way if these values are really important to you, and to him, I foresee resentment and difficulty ahead. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I'm priddy much this way to but guess what? In couple's therapy last week, I said I was worried about him doing to me what he did to his wife. OMG my sweedy asked me if I new what a hippocrit I was to let him cheat on his wife but to expect that he'll be faithful to me! He said "Oh that's rich. It was okay with you when I was running around on her, but it's different with you, princess," OMG. I'm so confused about this because he's kinda right and kinda not and I don't think he'd cheat cuz he loves me but I don't want to live my life checking up on him. Daisy, for that ass.hole comment, if I were you, I would've walked out of the counsellor's session and tell him to goodbye. A respectful man who honestly and truly loves you, left his marriage to be with you because he loved you fully, would NOT have said such a thing. He would have made sure you felt safe and secure, told you that just because he made a selfish choice to cheat on his wife and hurt her doesn't mean he'd do that to you. He would prove to you that he'd be trustworthy and learn from his mistakes. Link to post Share on other sites
Radagast Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 A respectful man who honestly and truly loves you, left his marriage to be with you because he loved you fully, would NOT have said such a thing. He would have made sure you felt safe and secure, told you that just because he made a selfish choice to cheat on his wife and hurt her doesn't mean he'd do that to you. He would prove to you that he'd be trustworthy and learn from his mistakes. You are so right with this. I would certainly never have said such a thing to my wife, nor called her "princess". I love and respect my wife and worked hard through counselling and outside of it to make sure I was good enough to earn her love, respect and trust. I would never dream of disrespecting her in such a fashion (or any other) and I worry that if someone is saying such things at the stage of a relationship where they should be wooing you and trying to convince you of their suitability as a partner, he's doing the reverse and trying to rightsize your expectations by telling you what's what and if you don't like it too bad! He is not seeing himself as having to earn you, he is seeing you as having ideas above your station that need to be challenged and changed. I'd be very wary of entering a relationship like that, with such an unbalanced distribution of power. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Stellar Wench Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 You are so right with this. I would certainly never have said such a thing to my wife, nor called her "princess". I love and respect my wife and worked hard through counselling and outside of it to make sure I was good enough to earn her love, respect and trust. I would never dream of disrespecting her in such a fashion (or any other) and I worry that if someone is saying such things at the stage of a relationship where they should be wooing you and trying to convince you of their suitability as a partner, he's doing the reverse and trying to rightsize your expectations by telling you what's what and if you don't like it too bad! He is not seeing himself as having to earn you, he is seeing you as having ideas above your station that need to be challenged and changed. I'd be very wary of entering a relationship like that, with such an unbalanced distribution of power.How is the unbalanced distribution of power in Daisy's A different from any other A? I've been reading infidelity boards for years, and the recurring theme is the unbalanced distribution of power due to one partner being married. Fora like this exist because OW make compromises that they wouldn't have to make with a single partner. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 The MM who takes longer to leave his marriage is more likely to be sincere about commitment and not be using the affair as an exit affair either. How is he sincere with committment? With whom? Committed to the affair and committed to his marriage? Committed to have it both ways, live a double life? Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 You are so right with this. I would certainly never have said such a thing to my wife, nor called her "princess". I love and respect my wife and worked hard through counselling and outside of it to make sure I was good enough to earn her love, respect and trust. I would never dream of disrespecting her in such a fashion (or any other) and I worry that if someone is saying such things at the stage of a relationship where they should be wooing you and trying to convince you of their suitability as a partner, he's doing the reverse and trying to rightsize your expectations by telling you what's what and if you don't like it too bad! He is not seeing himself as having to earn you, he is seeing you as having ideas above your station that need to be challenged and changed. I'd be very wary of entering a relationship like that, with such an unbalanced distribution of power. This goes for ANY relationship.. If a person isn't sincere and is rude/being a jerkhead, then yeah, it is an unbalanced distribution of power, and an ego/control game. Not based on honesty either. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Radagast Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 It seems you are implying that it's daisy's fault her man is a cheat because "she pushed him off the fence"? I think it's fairly clear what that poster meant. She said that those who worry that their partners will cheat are those who gave them an ultimatum and forced a premature decision. That is not the same as blaming somebody for someone else's cheating. It's saying that forcing an ultimatum denies the person who forced the ultimatum the peace of mind of knowing that they were chosen freely and after adequate due consideration by their partner, which is something rather different. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Originally Posted by trinity1 From what I've seen the OW who end up worrying that their MM will in turn cheat on them are likely to be the same OW who gave their MM an ultimatum and pushed him off the fence. If a MM or MW divorces and is going to cheat on their AP, aka new and out in the open partner, they're gonna do it reguardless of an ultimatum or not. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author MissBee Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 Agreed. Anyone who is willing to compromise for too long a time (i.e. allow their MM/MW to have their cake and eat it too) ends up on a neverending cycle of constant compromise. We teach people how to treat us. When someone realizes they can get away with murder, they often do. We all read people and know who to try what with. Kids test their parents in this way and learn how much they can get away with and which parent will allow what. Likewise with partners we do this. When you have someone willing to wait for an eternity or they are glad to compromise first or more...well you feel like you already have that bagged and thus have no need to act like you're scared to lose them or make yourself uncomfortable, when you know they'll gladly be uncomfortable so you don't have to be. It's a nice life, especially for the scared and/or self-absorbed. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
daisy love Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) If a MM or MW divorces and is going to cheat on their AP, aka new and out in the open partner, they're gonna do it reguardless of an ultimatum or not. I've been afraid that he was going to cheat on me like he did her now that we're together. I bring it up allot and it gets on his nerves. He told me that if he was gonna cheat, he woulda already done it. He said all the stuff about it all being hippocritical because he was frustrated about me bringing it up in counselling again. He's right on both counts tho. It is hippocritical for me to expect him to be faithful when I let him be unfaithful to someone else and it's up to me to deal with my fears. After reading some threads and comments today, it's not worth it. Thanks for being nice to me. Edited July 12, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
daisy love Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Agreed. Anyone who is willing to compromise for too long a time (i.e. allow their MM/MW to have their cake and eat it too) ends up on a neverending cycle of constant compromise. I been thinkin about this to cuz my counsellor told me that if you keep accepting something even reluctantly, it becomes acceptance Not compromise know what I mean? Like if I told him I wanted a real R, and he stayed married and I stayed in the A, even though I told him what I wanted, I was accepting the A by staying in it. Not compromising. Same with the cheating I think now to. He won't go to IC, even tho the couples counsellor wants him to. So if he keeps behaving like he did and I stay, I'm accepting his behavior right? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I been thinkin about this to cuz my counsellor told me that if you keep accepting something even reluctantly, it becomes acceptance Not compromise know what I mean? Like if I told him I wanted a real R, and he stayed married and I stayed in the A, even though I told him what I wanted, I was accepting the A by staying in it. Not compromising. Same with the cheating I think now to. He won't go to IC, even tho the couples counsellor wants him to. So if he keeps behaving like he did and I stay, I'm accepting his behavior right? Wow your counselor rocks! It is acceptance. Stick with her, the really good ones are hard to come by. I have a great one too! Link to post Share on other sites
daisy love Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 She's real good mercy! She's helped me to see that I had to compromise way too much in the A and too much now that we're together. I'm thinking about it, and I'm priddy sure I'm going to leave him before he gets home from his trip. I already used his credi card that he leaves for me to prepay so I can see her for the rest of the year! Hehe that's a compromise he'll just have to accept!! Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 She's real good mercy! She's helped me to see that I had to compromise way too much in the A and too much now that we're together. I'm thinking about it, and I'm priddy sure I'm going to leave him before he gets home from his trip. I already used his credi card that he leaves for me to prepay so I can see her for the rest of the year! Hehe that's a compromise he'll just have to accept!! bwwwahahahaah you're just cute as a button! I do wish you well though because all joking aside, you are hurting and for that I'm sorry. Link to post Share on other sites
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