Compromises

[woinlove]

I'm not sure you are referring to the idea I put forward, but what I said was that the MM who indeed does leave the marriage because of an ultimatum either may have been just about ready to leave already or he may be the kind who doesn't commit very strongly in general, and thus is more likely to be unfaithful also to the now former OW. He doesn't become more likely to "cheat" because of the ultimatum, he already is that kind of man.

 

Thanks, Trinity, for further explanation. In writing my post, I was thinking of Radagast's post where he argued something along the lines that ultimatums may get someone to leave but then be more likely to cheat, but your earlier post might have been interpreted that way too so thanks for explaining.

[Radagast]

I don't see things this black and white or so clearly divided. People are more complex than that. I think if you reflect, you might see this as I know you feel you were ready and yet so many of your posts years later expressed such hostility to your exW, showing that even when you are ready, things are not completely finished. There is no clear dividing line between ready and not ready.

 

 

I think you will find that there is a very big difference between being ready to leave a relationship, as I was, and being ready to forgive and forget decades of toxic behaviour during thirty years of that relationship, which I'm still working on. I've never seen it stated anywhere that the latter is a requirement, or even an indicator, of the former! If judges required you to have to forgive and forget all the wrongs your spouse did you before they granted you a divorce, the courts would be empty.

[Radagast]

Thanks, Trinity, for further explanation. In writing my post, I was thinking of Radagast's post where he argued something along the lines that ultimatums may get someone to leave but then be more likely to cheat, but your earlier post might have been interpreted that way too so thanks for explaining.

 

Was it this one?

 

If a married person leaves their marriage before they are ready to do so, they may well waver in their commitment to their new partner, still having residual feelings for their ex, or unresolved issues they are resistant to addressing fully through counselling because deep inside they still harbour doubts about whether leaving was the right thing to do, having done so under pressure or through fear of losing the affair partner. It is much more likely, in my opinion and from what I have read on the matter, that people in such a situation would fall prey to the temptation to engage in further infidelity, whether with their ex or with somebody new.

[Radagast]

However, I'm interested in further arguments as to how an ultimatum could make someone cheat sometime in the future, someone who would otherwise act honestly and with integrity.

 

Assuming this is in response to my post: it has to do with a lack of resolution. If someone has worked through an issue and resolved it, they are less likely to be vulnerable to pressures and temptations when things get rocky. Someone who is insecure in their decision, unsure about the path they have taken and generally unresolved on such matters is less likely to be able to take the kind of firm stand that results from the assurance of knowing you've done the right thing.

 

I know I did the right thing when I left my marriage. Nothing could ever convince me otherwise. I know why I left, why I want to be with my wife and why I love and respect her so much. I am secure in my decisions and my choices and because of that being unfaithful to her is not something I could ever consider.

 

Had I left in a state of doubt, under pressure or for fear of losing her, I may not have had that security and assurance and may have been vulnerable to doubts, or other pressures, or may simply have responded to some future stressful situation in an unhealthy way (through infidelity or some other unhealthy option) because I still had unresolved issues regarding the relationship.

 

It has nothing to do with being "forced" to be unfaithful or being "made" to cheat. It has everything to do with being in a vulnerable position of not having resolution on the issue.

[Radagast]

If you browse LS, even the very first page, you'll find many threads from OW/OM who feel like they are being used by the MP.

 

In my view, anybody who feels like they are being used in any relationship should not be in that relationship. And I'm as guilty of that as the next. I spent a long time in denial about feeling used within my marriage, and facing up to that was an important step in learning to leave it. But it's only a step. In and of itself, admitting to feeling used changes nothing unless it's matched with either a renegotiation of the relationship, or an exit from it.

[Radagast]

The small compromises that are part and parcel of being in a relationship probably don't matter much...they most likely don't cause someone to go against their values system or to become someone they don't know or do things they don't really like...

 

It's the big compromises that are the problem. It doesn't matter if it's an affair or a marriage,dating or friendship...if one feels uncomfortable about the compromises they make to be in the relationship, there is a problem...

 

the longer one puts up with that, the worse it gets...their relationship partner learns just how much they can get away with ( kind of like a toddler testing the rules set out by his/her parents) and they'll just keep on pushing that boundary,

 

that's when the excuses start...but what kind of relationship is it where one side feels they constantly have to excuse, explain or rationalize their partner's behavior to themselves?

 

I agree with this completely. The bolded part describes exactly what my counsellor spotlighted about my marriage. If I had to spend all my time making excuses to my family and my friends about her behaviour, or why we couldn't participate in family events, or why we never saw friends socially... wasn't the relationship itself a problem? He was right, of course, but I'd become so accustomed to doing that over the decades that it had seemed so normal to me to do so. Looking at my marriage with fresh, outsider's eyes was really enlightening!

[Radagast]

About compromise in how it relates to the ow who at first wanted her mm to leave his marriage, here are my thoughts.

 

If a ow wants her mm to herself, wants him to leave the marriage then she is certainly compromising, I don't see how it can even be debated. The points about ultimatums and pushing him out before he is ready is just background noise that has nothing to do with compromise, imo.

 

When time passes by and he doesn't leave, one has to lower her expectations and the result is compromise or else one would walk. Walking means, no compromise. It's really that simple.

 

If you want something, and can't have it all, you either settle for what you can have (compromise) or you move off and demand the whole of something else. Fair enough. King Edward VIII wanted to be King and wanted to marry Wallis Simpson but couldn't have both. He compromised by marrying her and abdicating the throne.

 

People make compromises all the time. In fact the "definition" of a true compromise is when neither gets what they wanted. A compromise means both parties each cede ground and find resolution somewhere between what he wants and what she wants.

 

Compromises don't necessarily equal resentment, only if one feels one is ceding more ground than the other, or ceding ground more often, and that the other is getting something closer to what they wanted, or is getting their way more often. In which case, basic rules of negotiation apply - you need to know what your own bottom line position is, beyond which you are not prepared to budge (a deal breaker) and stick to that.

 

If you're pushed beyond your bottom line you are not compromising, you are submitting or resigning and handing over any power you have, in which case it is no longer a relationship of equals, whatever kind of relationship it is.

[Got it]

All relationships involve compromise we know.

 

What are some of the compromises you and your AP have made in your relationship?

 

Do you feel like you both equally compromise or do you feel one of you has to compromise more than the other?

 

Do you feel you compromise more/less/differently than in non-A relationships?

 

Have you ever felt like they're getting a better deal than you are from the situation OR do you feel like they do all they can to keep you happy and satisfied?

Thanks guys!

 

 

Ummm . . . . that he was allowed to date me while married.

 

I read an article about relationships/marriage and discussing that there is no scorecard and they aren't equal. Someone is going to give more than the other at times and even one does give more. But it is about that bigger picture and the happiness of the couple as a whole. Are there times that dMM has had the better end of the stick? Sure. Have there been times where there is more invested in me? Yep. I do not want to start keeping track of things because then I am focusing on ticking off a pros and cons score sheet than enjoying the relationship.

 

What I lean on is my gut and my boundaries/sense of self. I know that if the bad outweighs the good I will know and make the appropriate decisions. What I know is that both parties are investing everyday into the relationship. That to me is key. We are both putting in energies into our partnership for the good of it. If it starts becoming one sided we will know and I trust that we will do something about it. If not then I know I will.

[Got it]

If you want something, and can't have it all, you either settle for what you can have (compromise) or you move off and demand the whole of something else. Fair enough. King Edward VIII wanted to be King and wanted to marry Wallis Simpson but couldn't have both. He compromised by marrying her and abdicating the throne.

 

People make compromises all the time. In fact the "definition" of a true compromise is when neither gets what they wanted. A compromise means both parties each cede ground and find resolution somewhere between what he wants and what she wants.

 

Compromises don't necessarily equal resentment, only if one feels one is ceding more ground than the other, or ceding ground more often, and that the other is getting something closer to what they wanted, or is getting their way more often. In which case, basic rules of negotiation apply - you need to know what your own bottom line position is, beyond which you are not prepared to budge (a deal breaker) and stick to that.

 

If you're pushed beyond your bottom line you are not compromising, you are submitting or resigning and handing over any power you have, in which case it is no longer a relationship of equals, whatever kind of relationship it is.

 

It comes down to knowing what your core boundaries/requirements are, what you can compromise on and what crosses the line into allowing to negate one of the parties.

 

One has to be their own best advocate and not allow themselves to disappear in a relationship or hope that "if I give more than I will earn brownie points and will be rewarded". Give as much as you are comfortable giving but don't have strings attached. Make sure you aren't devaluing yourself in the process.

[woinlove]

Was it this one?

 

Yes, that is one paragraph of it, and it was your entire post I was thinking of, starting with your statement that you disagreed with wwiu's post that someone who cheats on their spouse, divorces and then cheats on their new partner, is doing it because of who they are, not because they responded to an ultimatum or not. Much of this discussion seems to be a disagreement over who is responsible for one's decisions and actions.

 

You seem to see cheating as due to external forces, such as someone issuing an ultimatum about the R and that causing someone to cheat. I see it as internal to the person and place the responsibility and the source of the cheating squarely on the person who is cheating. I don't consider how the person responded to an ultimatum to be relevant to future cheating and if someone came here suggesting they cheated because they left their M when their AP said they could not continue in a secret A, I would tell them they need to take responsibility for their own decisions and actions and stop blaming others for their own actions.

 

As to vulnerabilities, again I say take responsibility for yourself (you in the general sense, not directed at any individual). People divorce, get ill, lose jobs, lose their homes, lose friends and family to death, ... and, yes, some juggle both a M and an A and keep things secret. Still, assuming they are legally functioning adults, they are responsible for their decisions and choices. If you want to stay married, stay married and don't divorce just because someone who isn't your spouse asks you to. If you do decide to divorce, own that decision as your own and don't try to pawn it off on someone who said they wanted you to divorce. If you want to stay married and have an affair too, well that depends on the AP being willing and they have every right to say I won't be with you unless you are divorced and available. How you respond to that is up to you. If you cheat in the future, that is up to you too.

[woinlove]

Assuming this is in response to my post: it has to do with a lack of resolution. If someone has worked through an issue and resolved it, they are less likely to be vulnerable to pressures and temptations when things get rocky. Someone who is insecure in their decision, unsure about the path they have taken and generally unresolved on such matters is less likely to be able to take the kind of firm stand that results from the assurance of knowing you've done the right thing.

 

I know I did the right thing when I left my marriage. Nothing could ever convince me otherwise. I know why I left, why I want to be with my wife and why I love and respect her so much. I am secure in my decisions and my choices and because of that being unfaithful to her is not something I could ever consider.

 

Had I left in a state of doubt, under pressure or for fear of losing her, I may not have had that security and assurance and may have been vulnerable to doubts, or other pressures, or may simply have responded to some future stressful situation in an unhealthy way (through infidelity or some other unhealthy option) because I still had unresolved issues regarding the relationship.

 

It has nothing to do with being "forced" to be unfaithful or being "made" to cheat. It has everything to do with being in a vulnerable position of not having resolution on the issue.

 

I think if you feel you might cheat if you feel doubt, pressure, fear, vulnerability or unresolved issues in the future, then that is something to work on within yourself.

[Spark1111]

My logic is strongly influenced by Al-Anon. I've been a member there for many years.

 

Accepting what you are powerless to change is just being realistic. From there you can choose whether you want to remain in a relationship or not. That way you are taking charge of the situation instead of being controlled by the situation.

 

To many leaving the relationship would be a compromise and mean accepting less than what they want, so being given the opportunity to stay and feel good about it is a good option. What you learn in the 12 step groups for relatives and friends is to not be so obsessed about the other person and what he/she is doing, but instead live a full life yourself. Whether that full life is with them or not, that is your choice. You learn how to relate to the problem (whatever it is) without it having a negative impact on you. That to me is not compromising, that is learning a skill that is useful to have in life.

 

An alternative would be to go out there and wait for Prince Charming, the perfect man, but does he really exist? All men have flaws, no relationship is the perfect relationship. In that sense everyone is compromising. What the OW needs to decide is if this relationship and this man fulfill enough of her criteria for her to want to choose to stay. Society says NO because this kind of relationship is frowned upon, but do we have to listen to that or can we make our own choice?

 

So then is the perception of compromising linked to one's expectations of what is acceptable in a relationship?

 

I think yes.

 

If I have no expectations of unlimited access and time with my romantic partner, than I am NOT compromising when I do not get it.

 

If my need is to have fun, an emotional connection, and an empowerment from saving him from sadness, and I have that when I do get to see him, then I am not compromising.

 

And in any self-help program, detachment is a useful skill which many can apply in their lives.

 

It is harder to apply to a life partner when there is an expectation of shared duties: bill paying, child-rearing, household chores.

 

I could wish my life away hoping the addict finds sobriety. Many do divorce because marital expectations cannot be filled by the addict.

 

More interesting to note is how many divorce AFTER the addict reaches sobriety and stability.

 

THe enabling spouse can no longer feel empowered by their daily rescuing of the sad, dependent, spouse. The drama is over. They grow bored or uncomfortable with no longer being the "savior."

[Spark1111]

That is interesting indeed. We were one of the few couples who stayed together in sobriety. But then we were both active in the 12 step program so we now shared a life philosophy and had means to work on improving ourselves and our relationship.

 

I've seen women come to Al-Anon and cry because they wanted their "old man" back - like he was when he drank.

 

Yes, co-dependency at it's finast. Victim/rescuer roles have changed, and some are incapable of adjusting to a healthy, equal dynamic.

[Radagast]

You seem to see cheating as due to external forces, such as someone issuing an ultimatum about the R and that causing someone to cheat.

 

That is a complete misreading of what I have written. Nowhere have I ever said that an ultimatum causes someone to cheat. I have repeatedly stated, in posts quoted by yourself among others, that acting (such as leaving a marriage) before one has resolved the issues that led one to infidelity increases the risk of one repeating that infidelity. I firmly believe this and research backs me up on this. Nowhere have I ever claimed that someone can force someone else to cheat, whether through an ultimatum or otherwise, nor do I believe that. More careful reading of my posts would show that quite clearly.

 

I think if you feel you might cheat if you feel doubt, pressure, fear, vulnerability or unresolved issues in the future, then that is something to work on within yourself.

 

Nor did I state that. That is another misreading. What I stated was that had I (hypothetical tense) left without having resolved the issues, I might (hypothetical tense) have found myself in such a position. As I stated quite clearly in my post,

 

I know I did the right thing when I left my marriage. Nothing could ever convince me otherwise. I know why I left, why I want to be with my wife and why I love and respect her so much. I am secure in my decisions and my choices and because of that being unfaithful to her is not something I could ever consider.

 

Ascribing views to me that I do not hold, or statements to me that are the opposite of what I said, is not constructive.

 

If there is anyone who has argued that someone can make another person unfaithful where that person would otherwise have been a model of rectitude, I would be interested in seeing the link. I myself have never argued that nor have I read anyone here stating that, although I have read some accusing others of doing so.

[woinlove]

That is a complete misreading of what I have written. Nowhere have I ever said that an ultimatum causes someone to cheat. I have repeatedly stated, in posts quoted by yourself among others, that acting (such as leaving a marriage) before one has resolved the issues that led one to infidelity increases the risk of one repeating that infidelity. I firmly believe this and research backs me up on this. Nowhere have I ever claimed that someone can force someone else to cheat, whether through an ultimatum or otherwise, nor do I believe that. More careful reading of my posts would show that quite clearly.

 

Okay, but then I don't understand why you started your earlier post by saying you disagreed with wwiu's statement that a person's cheating was not because of an ultimatum or not. Can we agree that a person choosing to cheat is not based on whether on earlier ultimatum was issued, but because of their own internal issues?

 

 

Nor did I state that. That is another misreading. What I stated was that had I (hypothetical tense) left without having resolved the issues, I might (hypothetical tense) have found myself in such a position. As I stated quite clearly in my post,

Ascribing views to me that I do not hold, or statements to me that are the opposite of what I said, is not constructive.

 

I took this:

 

Had I left in a state of doubt, under pressure or for fear of losing her, I may not have had that security and assurance and may have been vulnerable to doubts, or other pressures, or may simply have responded to some future stressful situation in an unhealthy way (through infidelity or some other unhealthy option) because I still had unresolved issues regarding the relationship.

 

to mean that you thought doubt, pressure, fear in you might lead you to cheat. Still don't see how it doesn't mean that, but I allowed for a different meaning by putting IF at the beginning of my statement. I can't say I know what you do mean then by doubt, fear, pressure and the connection to infidelity, but I take it you do not think they are connected.

 

If there is anyone who has argued that someone can make another person unfaithful where that person would otherwise have been a model of rectitude, I would be interested in seeing the link. I myself have never argued that nor have I read anyone here stating that, although I have read some accusing others of doing so.

 

It is not a matter of "make" or "force", it is whether one agrees or disagrees with the statements that a person's future cheating is not because of or caused by an ultimatum. Perhaps we are all agreeing that it is not.

Edited July 13, 2012 by woinlove

[Radagast]

So then is the perception of compromising linked to one's expectations of what is acceptable in a relationship?

 

I think yes.

 

If I have no expectations of unlimited access and time with my romantic partner, than I am NOT compromising when I do not get it.

 

If my need is to have fun, an emotional connection, and an empowerment from saving him from sadness, and I have that when I do get to see him, then I am not compromising.

 

I think there is a good deal of truth in this post.

 

In my marriage, my expectation was not of great emotional connection or physical closeness or intellectual parity, it was of feeling empowered by saving my ex-wife from her demons, her bad relationships with men, her war with the world, and of feeling affirmed by being chosen as a gawky adolescent by a sophisticated older woman to be her knight in shining armour, and of feeling noble through standing by her despite everything. I got my "warm fuzzies" not from physical displays of affection, or words of affirmation, but from my own sense of fulfilling my obligations, doing my duty, being selfless and committed despite the challenges. So I did not feel I was compromising. Until the costs got too high, the rewards appeared to paltry, and the alternatives too tempting. Then my expectations of what I wanted in a relationship shifted, and I knew I was in the wrong one in my marriage.

 

Which may well be what some affair partners go through. At first they have expectations which revolve more around bringing light and love to their partner and deriving satisfaction from being of service, than about receiving love and respect on their own terms for themselves. Over time this may shift as the costs mount up and the rewards crumble, and as other alternatives show up the paucity of what they see themselves getting out of their relationship with their affair partner. They may then feel aggrieved, or used, or compromised. At which point the relationship is no longer meeting their needs and they should leave it, or work towards leaving it if they do not instantly have the resources to do so.

 

For others the reverse process might happen - they may start off all starry eyed with unrealistic expectations, which over time and after immense frustration they review, coming to a place of realisation that what they have is what they need, that more would be nice but is not necessary, and they may happily adjust their view and reach peace that way. That is not settling. That is realism. Settling involves regret, resentment, defeat, resignation. Realism is positive acceptance, embracing the recognition of what one has. Settling is setting fire to one's dreams and allowing life to dictate the terms instead of taking ownership of your own destiny.

[Radagast]

Okay, but then I don't understand why you started your earlier post by saying you disagreed with wwiu's statement that a person's cheating was not because of an ultimatum or not. Can we agree that a person choosing to cheat is not based on whether on earlier ultimatum was issued, but because of their own internal issues?

 

 

 

 

I took this:

 

 

 

to mean that you thought doubt, pressure, fear in you might lead you to cheat. Still don't see how it doesn't mean that, but I allowed for a different meaning by putting IF at the beginning of my statement. I can't say I know what you do mean then by doubt, fear, pressure and the connection to infidelity, but I take it you do not think they are connected.

 

 

 

It is not a matter of "make" or "force", it is whether one agrees or disagrees with the statements that a person's future cheating is not because of or caused by an ultimatum. Perhaps we are all agreeing that it is not.

 

My view, as I've stated repeatedly, is that it can make it more likely. Which is very different from saying it causes it.

[Radagast]

 

I took this:

 

 

 

to mean that you thought doubt, pressure, fear in you might lead you to cheat.

 

Might have done, in the past, had I left before resolving those issues.

 

I resolved the issues. I did the work in counselling. I left when I was ready. That possibility no longer exists for me, even though it once did for a hypothetical "me" who may have left his marriage before he was fully ready.

 

Is that any clearer?

[Radagast]

Thus the ultimatum doesn't cause the infidelity, but prevents it from being dealt with.

 

... and prevents the resolution that precludes a repeat of the infidelity.

[woinlove]

My view, as I've stated repeatedly, is that it can make it more likely. Which is very different from saying it causes it.

 

More likely as in some people who would not otherwise cheat, will cheat because of an ultimatum by the AP? If so, I disagree with this and would think if the person looked internally they would find answers to why they cheat inside themselves.

 

However, I could believe that some people who cheat might add the ultimatum to the list of other external factors they see as reasons for their cheating.

[woinlove]

An ultimatum can cause premature leaving of a marriage. Premature leaving can cause a WS to not deal with internal issues which would have been necessary to leave the marriage of his/her own accord. Not having dealt with internal issues can cause a repeat of patterns, thus renewed infidelity. It's a chain of events. Of course if the infidelity was not caused by internal issues, the pattern wouldn't be there to begin with.

 

Thus the ultimatum doesn't cause the infidelity, but prevents it from being dealt with.

 

An ultimatum cannot in itself cause premature leaving. It can make a person decide to leave the M prematurely. Again the decision is completely on them. They might leave prematurely with no ultimatum. They might stay well beyond the time they should have left even with an ultimatum. If someone decides to divorce that is of their own accord. If their spouse is the one deciding, they may have no choice and have to deal with it. A third party cannot chose to end a marriage for others (barring some peculiar legal situations).

 

An ultimatum cannot prevent the MM/MW from dealing with infidelity. They are free to deal with their issues if they want and free to ignore their issues if they want. Most people actively carrying on a secret affair while remaining married are NOT dealing with their issues related to infidelity. IMO, a change to that situation, ending the A or ending the M, is more likely to help them deal with issues than just keeping the status quo is.

[Radagast]

More likely as in some people who would not otherwise cheat, will cheat because of an ultimatum by the AP? If so, I disagree with this and would think if the person looked internally they would find answers to why they cheat inside themselves.

 

However, I could believe that some people who cheat might add the ultimatum to the list of other external factors they see as reasons for their cheating.

 

The context was, people who have a history of infidelity (are currently in an affair, and leave the marriage to be with their affair partner). Such people would be more likely to be unfaithful if leaving before resolving their issues, yes.

 

That is very different from saying it forces them to cheat.

 

It is also very different from saying that someone with no history of infidelity who would not otherwise consider infidelity will suddenly consider it because of some ultimatum.

[MissBee]

You wanted and still want your mm to leave his marriage, correct? So how is that not compromising?

 

You even said that you've come to accept that he may not, so again how is that not compromising and lowering your expectations of what you have said you want?

 

And in such a case, I seriously do wonder, if you sit down and assess it...what does the MM compromise in that case? Some have said his own values.

 

Yet. to clarify the discussion. There are two definitions of compromise...mutually beneficial compromise, that is part and parcel of any interpersonal relationship and that is on the healthy side. Defined by the dictionary as:

 

 

a. A settlement of differences in which each side makes concessions.

 

 

OR

 

The kind of compromising that is not mutually beneficial and may be detrimental and is often one-sided. Defined by the dictionary as:

 

3. A concession to something detrimental or pejorative: a compromise of morality.

 

2. To reduce the quality, value, or degree of something.

v.tr.

1.

a. To expose or make liable to danger, suspicion, or disrepute

 

2. To impair by disease or injury

 

 

With those definitions in mind of what compromise means, I think it's a lot easier then to consider what types of actions are the positive compromise versus the negative ones.

[Radagast]

An ultimatum cannot in itself cause premature leaving. It can make a person decide to leave the M prematurely. Again the decision is completely on them. They might leave prematurely with no ultimatum. They might stay well beyond the time they should have left even with an ultimatum. If someone decides to divorce that is of their own accord. If their spouse is the one deciding, they may have no choice and have to deal with it. A third party cannot chose to end a marriage for others (barring some peculiar legal situations).

 

An ultimatum cannot prevent the MM/MW from dealing with infidelity. They are free to deal with their issues if they want and free to ignore their issues if they want. Most people actively carrying on a secret affair while remaining married are NOT dealing with their issues related to infidelity. IMO, a change to that situation, ending the A or ending the M, is more likely to help them deal with issues than just keeping the status quo is.

 

A person having an affair is unlikely to be in an assertive, fully resolved space able to take fully informed rational decisions and without the support of significant introspection, or counselling. Without that, they're more likely to take a decision because of fear of loss (of the affair partner) than because they felt they were freely making a choice, and owning it.

 

Someone who is struggling to match the reality of having an affair with their self-perception as a "good guy" kept in their marriage by commitment may well seek counselling or knowledge / information through research to help them resolve the issue simply with the passage of time, as the cognitive dissonance would be unsustainable to them forever. However, rational discussions might also convince them intellectually of the need for counselling. As indeed might the realisation that their affair partner might move on. However, being prompted to undertake counselling to resolve their issues and then leave is one thing; feeling pressured to leap out of the marriage and into their lover's arms is another. The first involves sustainable resolution and the second merely creates further uncertainty.

[woinlove]

The context was, people who have a history of infidelity (are currently in an affair, and leave the marriage to be with their affair partner). Such people would be more likely to be unfaithful if leaving before resolving their issues, yes.

 

That is very different from saying it forces them to cheat.

 

It is also very different from saying that someone with no history of infidelity who would not otherwise consider infidelity will suddenly consider it because of some ultimatum.

 

I agree people who are unfaithful are more likely to be unfaithful again if they don't do the work to change. Such work seems to take years and often involves professional counselling. I think such work needs to be done whether or not one divorces, so I don't see the connection to an ultimatum. In fact, in the absence of an ultimatum, the person may simply continue to have an A and stay married and not do any work. An ultimatum may make it more likely that they will analyze themselves and the situation a bit and, so, could in fact contribute to them going on a path of change. Still, it is the person who decides and does the work.

 

Take out any connection to an ultimatum, to divorcing, not divorcing, and simply focus on whether the person who cheated is doing the necessary work to change, and, yes, I agree they need to do that work to make it less likely they will cheat again. We don't have any disagreement in that.

 

ETA: one sometimes reads of the BS giving an ultimatum for staying married, that the person end the A and start counselling. When this works, one could say the ultimatum helped the person change, but ultimately that person makes the decision to end the A and go into counselling.

Edited July 13, 2012 by woinlove