Feelsgoodman Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 So yes, in the US, this pedestal thing is all the rage. But you have to remember, it's just a game. The men that put women on the highest pedestal are usually the first ones to earn the honor of being the back-burner guy. You do it just enough to satisfy the social requirement, and nothing more. The idea of putting women on a pedestal is deeply ingrained in western culture, and especially so in English-speaking countries. Read Shakespeare (who wrote 400 years ago), for example. He's all about idealizing women and putting them on a pedestal. Other cultures simply do not have such tradition of female worship. Link to post Share on other sites
Feelsgoodman Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 FG, I don't have problems with men. I love them. One in particular. So nothing to solve. I did consider "turning gay" when I found out that a female friend was attracted to me, but I wasn't attracted to her - not because she was the same sex, but I just wasn't attracted to her. Thus, I maintain that it's a viable option, for anyone, male or female. So let me get this straight...you've never tried going gay, yet you somehow know that it's a "viable option"? And how did you come to possess such knowledge? Link to post Share on other sites
january2011 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 So let me get this straight...you've never tried going gay, yet you somehow know that it's a "viable option"? And how did you come to possess such knowledge? I ask the same of you, FG. Have you tried to "go gay?" If not, how do you know it's not a viable option? See where this is heading? We're both setting up these straw men just to attack the other person's viewpoint because we don't agree on something that is essentially subjective and therefore subject to individual interpretation and biases. No one is ever going to be right. However, I'm happy to acknowledge that we both have valid points-of-view, albeit we disagree. The OP is happy to go with yours, which suggests that the thread is done. Unless of your course, your aim is to run this conversation into the ground about "going gay" and whether or not anyone has the right to suggest it. You're welcome to do so by PM so that we don't take this thread off-topic. However, I think that we've already made our positions clear on this matter. Link to post Share on other sites
fishtaco Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The idea of putting women on a pedestal is deeply ingrained in western culture, and especially so in English-speaking countries. Read Shakespeare (who wrote 400 years ago), for example. He's all about idealizing women and putting them on a pedestal. Other cultures simply do not have such tradition of female worship. I'd say more than just English speaking countries. I'd say the whole western Europe. Sure, back in the day, chivalry and honor and all that. But women also had significantly less rights than men. Check out one of Mozart's celebrated opera, Magic Flute. One of the underlying theme is that it's a virtue for women to shut the hell up. The gender equality is changing the game. Sorry ladies, equality means you get the good and the bads. Even though there is a lot of left over tradition, it has different meaning when superimposed on the modern society. Hence I say, do it just enough to satisfy the social requirement. I don't recommend going full-on medieval (or renaissance, whatever). Link to post Share on other sites
Nicomis Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 So let me get this straight...you've never tried going gay, yet you somehow know that it's a "viable option"? And how did you come to possess such knowledge? Nobody "turns gay"! They are either born with those feelings and attractions (which is what I believe to be the case), or they develop with the persons personality. I am not gay, so I am not qualified to say either way. Explain again why feminists should remove their clits??? This sounds a bit retarded. I will say, and have said, that individual female attitudes in the U.S. increasingly SUCK. However, if your asking what makes them worth going through all this, well... I know three women, that if somehow I could combine all of their good qualities, they would be the best friend, partner, lover, mother that I could imagine. SO, the object is to find one out of all the millions of women that contains the good qualities that will make you forget her bad ones. I used to run the operations for several cemeteries, and I would always pick up stray, windblown flowers and place them on the graves that nobody visited. Typically these were people buried in a single grave by themselves. I have always feared being that guy. I guess that's why they are worth it. Link to post Share on other sites
Feelsgoodman Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I ask the same of you, FG. Have you tried to "go gay?" If not, how do you know it's not a viable option? You are the one making the contention, so the onus of proof is on you. But nice try attempting to weasel out. In any event, common sense would suggest that radically changing one's sexuality, especially in the absence of attraction for the same gender, is anything but "viable". There's nothing "subjective" about that. If you want to argue otherwise, you need present some evidence to support your position. Link to post Share on other sites
Feelsgoodman Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Explain again why feminists should remove their clits??? This sounds a bit retarded. Please don't be like the resident feminists on this board by failing to recognize obvious sarcasm! Link to post Share on other sites
Author aRealMan Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Please don't be like the resident feminists on this board by failing to recognize obvious sarcasm! Yeah, I couldn't believe you were question (at least?) two times on that joke. I caught it the first time around smh Link to post Share on other sites
Nicomis Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Please don't be like the resident feminists on this board by failing to recognize obvious sarcasm! I guess I just missed the context somehow. OK, I yeah my bad. I only saw where it was mentioned by the other poster, not where you had originally posted it. Edited July 10, 2012 by Nicomis Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Women face lifetime of regret too. It's not like it's in the exclusive domain of men. The pedestal-putting is just part of the show. If you REALLY put someone on the pedestal, you've just taken yourself out of the equation. If you give something away for free, then others will perceive it as worthless. . I agree with you 100%. I think that if you (man or woman) feel like you really want something, you probably owe it to yourself to go for it. And people do not belong on pedestals. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 ……………………………….. Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Quite a few women are as much worth winning over as I am. Which is a lot. Not all, but not every man or woman is worth it to either...... Link to post Share on other sites
Author aRealMan Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Quite a few women are as much worth winning over as I am. Which is a lot. Not all, but not every man or woman is worth it to either...... And what makes you all worth that, as opposed to the other way around? That still hasn't been answered in this topic. Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) And what makes you all worth that, as opposed to the other way around? That still hasn't been answered in this topic. All? I'm male Women don't all come with a hive mind, strangely enough. There may be a large cluster of individuals that mess it up for the rest of them, yes. Women have a variety of attributes that entice me, outside of the obvious physical beauty of course. Intelligence, empathy, understanding, comfort, eccentricity, endurance of a kind that is different. Sometimes, I would rather be around a woman, because the majority of my time is spent around males. Too much testosterone in the ethos around me can get annoying sometimes - you need to be around some estrogen to balance it out . Edited July 10, 2012 by ThaWholigan Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Women face lifetime of regret too. It's not like it's in the exclusive domain of men. The pedestal-putting is just part of the show. If you REALLY put someone on the pedestal, you've just taken yourself out of the equation. If you give something away for free, then others will perceive it as worthless. I agree with all of this. What I find odd, in the OP, is that he talks of all the PUA material for guys and articles on 'how to get' women as though there aren't TONS of similar books and articles for women! What makes a woman worth winning over? Well . . .what makes a man worth winning over? In both cases, the answer is the same: Everyone has their own unique answer, but basically. . . when you want to win them over (and, as you move forward with doing so, they seem to respond favorably to that idea). Generally, I'd suggest that things like basic respect and character play into it, in addition to all the personal characteristics an individual may be attracted to! This is not that hard to figure out. If you don't feel like something is worth getting, by ALL means: Don't go after it! At any rate, putting someone on a pedestal is a terrible, ineffective, stupid way to go after anyone. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author aRealMan Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 I agree with all of this. What I find odd, in the OP, is that he talks of all the PUA material for guys and articles on 'how to get' women as though there aren't TONS of similar books and articles for women! What makes a woman worth winning over? Well . . .what makes a man worth winning over? In both cases, the answer is the same: Everyone has their own unique answer, but basically. . . when you want to win them over (and, as you move forward with doing so, they seem to respond favorably to that idea). Generally, I'd suggest that things like basic respect and character play into it, in addition to all the personal characteristics an individual may be attracted to! This is not that hard to figure out. If you don't feel like something is worth getting, by ALL means: Don't go after it! At any rate, putting someone on a pedestal is a terrible, ineffective, stupid way to go after anyone. Yeah, because when I see commercials about valentine's day, christmas, etc... they're mostly aimed at what to buy men. And, clearly men usually aren't the ones to be won over, they are the aggressors. So, asking "what makes a man worth winning over" was a waste of typing. And the rest of it is pretty much question dodging. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 And the rest of it is pretty much question dodging. No, it's not. Just because nobody gave the "right" answer. Here, I'll do that for you: NO WOMAN IS WORTH THE EFFORT OF WINNING OVER. There. Happy now? Link to post Share on other sites
StrangeBehaviors Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 No, it's not. Just because nobody gave the "right" answer. Here, I'll do that for you: NO WOMAN IS WORTH THE EFFORT OF WINNING OVER. There. Happy now? Don't think this is true at all. What does appear to be very true is that there is a much lower percentage of U.S. women worth winning over. I've noticed recently U.S. men wanting women from other countries in much higher numbers. Whether Asia, Prague, or some other country other than North America and others that mirror it. Wonder why that is? I'm guessing that U.S. women would say "It's because they just want a slave!" or some other similar nonsense. I've known a couple that purposely sought out and married women from other countries. They in no way treat them slavey. What they do have is a relationship where the guy is more the provider and the wife is more the caretaker of the home and children. Both couples seem much happier than other "successful" marriages I know that are U.S. man/U.S. woman. On the other side. I don't see lots of men from other countries making concerted efforts to get a U.S. woman instead of choices from other areas of the world. Many reading this will get angry and attempt to find something incredibly wrong with those other women. Seems that instead it might be a better choice to look at what they do and try to learn the differences so as to improve their relationships if necessary. Moving on..... So what made the pedestal status or makes a woman worth "winning"? History seems to tell us that years ago in the U.S. women worth winning were for: Sex Procreation Companionship Being caretakers of the home and children as THE career Not being career driven outside of the home Supporting the husband through his ups and downs And it was symbiotic because this behavior, in turn, often made their husbands better than they would be without them. Now, in today's era, the majority of that has been removed and we are supposed to be the same. Doesn't work too well in the majority, does it? An unnatural society has been developed with the expectation for everyone to act naturally. Opposite sexes both carrying about the same roles with one still having the expectation and conditioning of being pursued. That must be nice, right? Fact is, if all this "equality" was actually real and natural, then every woman reading this should already be asking out men as much or more than they get asked themselves. Paying equally for everything. In short, doing everything that men have done in the past naturally. And men would want to not work outside of the home and be the caretaker of it and kids in equal percentages as women doing it. Just what ladies want, right? Wrong...you all know it. Link to post Share on other sites
DjinnAgain Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 So, there're plenty of pua sites directed to helping men get women. There are even plenty of yahoo articles that display help for men. I lost count of how many TV commercials that tell "him" what "he" should buy "her" in order to "win" "her" over. Hell, there are even plenty of topics on here that tell guys: be confident, be assertive, be funny, pay for her meals, etc, etc Has anyone actually wondered how they got on the pedestal in the first place? And what do they have to offer that keeps them there? You would think that since one gender is clearly valued more than the other, there would be a long list of reasons, right? If you have a problem with how things are, act in a different manner. Women try to win over men they want, too. People pursue what they want. It just happens. I don't usually see men getting so bitter because what they want does not just fall into their lap without initiative. I honestly, and truly, have no idea what you are referring to here. Link to post Share on other sites
2.50 a gallon Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Answer to the first questin. Blame it on America, the Civil War and the building on the railroads. Two hundred years ago, women had almost zero rights. Take property, it belonged to her father, and later her husband. Ala, the widow Martha Custis, who upon marrying Washington, forfeited all of her former husband's property to George. Things begin to change in the 1840's when women began to get the right to own and keep their own property. In those days, unless you relocated, most of your life was spent within 25 miles of where you were born. So a woman's choice for a mate was very limited and in many cases arranged. And never without her father's approval Then came the railroads, and people began to travel longer distances, and at the same time women, were slowly getting more say so. Those whose families had money were actually allowed to go to school But it is only the past century that has seen the biggest changes. The right to vote, etc. And industry began to see the woman as a valued customer. It was the DeBeers company that began promoting the diamond engagement ring. So if you want to blame somebody, blame it on America and Free enterprise 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author aRealMan Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 No, it's not. Just because nobody gave the "right" answer. Here, I'll do that for you: NO WOMAN IS WORTH THE EFFORT OF WINNING OVER. There. Happy now? No. I don't need the passive agression. Come back when your period is over. If you have a problem with how things are, act in a different manner. Women try to win over men they want, too. People pursue what they want. It just happens. I don't usually see men getting so bitter because what they want does not just fall into their lap without initiative. I honestly, and truly, have no idea what you are referring to here. You're making a grossly over-exaggerated statement about me, just because I don't pussy-worshipper without second thought. People usually never take kindly to questioning the norms and are happy just being sheep. And, people don't pursue what they want, men do. Don't think this is true at all. What does appear to be very true is that there is a much lower percentage of U.S. women worth winning over. I've noticed recently U.S. men wanting women from other countries in much higher numbers. Whether Asia, Prague, or some other country other than North America and others that mirror it. Wonder why that is? I'm guessing that U.S. women would say "It's because they just want a slave!" or some other similar nonsense. I've known a couple that purposely sought out and married women from other countries. They in no way treat them slavey. What they do have is a relationship where the guy is more the provider and the wife is more the caretaker of the home and children. Both couples seem much happier than other "successful" marriages I know that are U.S. man/U.S. woman. On the other side. I don't see lots of men from other countries making concerted efforts to get a U.S. woman instead of choices from other areas of the world. Many reading this will get angry and attempt to find something incredibly wrong with those other women. Seems that instead it might be a better choice to look at what they do and try to learn the differences so as to improve their relationships if necessary. Moving on..... So what made the pedestal status or makes a woman worth "winning"? History seems to tell us that years ago in the U.S. women worth winning were for: Sex Procreation Companionship Being caretakers of the home and children as THE career Not being career driven outside of the home Supporting the husband through his ups and downs And it was symbiotic because this behavior, in turn, often made their husbands better than they would be without them. Now, in today's era, the majority of that has been removed and we are supposed to be the same. Doesn't work too well in the majority, does it? An unnatural society has been developed with the expectation for everyone to act naturally. Opposite sexes both carrying about the same roles with one still having the expectation and conditioning of being pursued. That must be nice, right? Fact is, if all this "equality" was actually real and natural, then every woman reading this should already be asking out men as much or more than they get asked themselves. Paying equally for everything. In short, doing everything that men have done in the past naturally. And men would want to not work outside of the home and be the caretaker of it and kids in equal percentages as women doing it. Just what ladies want, right? Wrong...you all know it. Google "American Women vs Foreign Women". There's endless amounts of links where American guys all praise foreign women, and American women show their insecurities toward the competition by calling them "slaves" among other things. That's just wrong. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 people don't pursue what they want, men do. Wow, sonny. You don't get out much, do you? Google "American Women vs Foreign Women". There's endless amounts of links where American guys all praise foreign women So what? Go ahead and love foreign women. Nobody cares. Link to post Share on other sites
brahmabull117 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I've never seen women as a prize to be gained, I pretty much see it as the same process as making friends If you make yourself desirable enough, women will try to win you over and that's my goal anyways. I want women to chase after me not the other way around. We'll see if I can accomplish that Also, as usual, the misogyny in this thread and this entire forum is nauseating. Some of you guys seem like you would be much happier just being gay. Seriously, just try dick for once and see if you like it. Then you'll never have to deal with the women you despise so much anyways 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Feelsgoodman Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 So what? Go ahead and love foreign women. Nobody cares. Apparently, you care enough to try to convince him that you don't care.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
brahmabull117 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Apparently, you care enough to try to convince him that you don't care.. BTW most people who talk about foreign women don't really have any experience or know what they're like I was born in Armenia and I've lived in Russia so I have plenty of experience with foreign women. They are 10 times worse golddiggers than anything you see in the US Russian women for example? Oh my lord, worst gold diggers you'll ever meet. Try dating an attractive russian broad without a BMW or a six figure salary and you won't go very far I'm actually happy to live in the states with how feminism has affected things here. My huge complaint is that women nowadays just cannot cook/be good enough housewives. Some of them can but many of them cannot I would love to ideally meet a woman that's a perfect hybrid of 1950 and 2012- a great house wife/mom and earns some money to help me out (My goal is to maybe make low six figures and have my wife make 50 or 60 herself) The grass is always greener on the other side. I promise you guys in Russia wish they were in the states and could be dating US women - I saw it all the time when I was growing up how guys would talk about the streets in the US being paved with beautiful babes who would do whatever they wanted. Grass is always greener on the side Link to post Share on other sites
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