Scientology: Can you defend it?

[Star Gazer]

I'm curious if any of the articulate LSers can explain to me the allure of Scientology to its "membership" (for lack of a better word, I don't know what to call them). Can you?

[Trimmer]

I'm curious if any of the articulate LSers can explain to me the allure of Scientology to its "membership" (for lack of a better word, I don't know what to call them). Can you?

Ha, kind of a reverse straw man, isn't it? Instead of putting up an objectionable deception and inducing people to attack it, you propose a deception that is positive in nature (Scientology is alluring) and then intend to induce us - with your feminine wiles - to support it!

 

Begone, witch! Ye won't fool us with your spells and potions. You'll never convince me!

 

j/k... Seriously though, it's a good question.

[denise_xo]

For people who are in strong need of an identity, I think content is secondary as long as it offers something that will fill their void.

[123321]

I'm curious if any of the articulate LSers can explain to me the allure of Scientology to its "membership" (for lack of a better word, I don't know what to call them). Can you?

 

If one is prominent and/or rich, it's a good source of slaves.

[CarrieT]

I can tell you that my brief marriage over 25 years ago was into a branch of the Hubbard clan and Thanksgiving was VERY interesting...

 

The family knew that L. Ron was a shyster and charlatan and couldn't believe he got away with as much as he did.

 

I know way too many stories about him...

[zengirl]

Defend it, as in why it's correct, or defend it in why it should be tolerated? Does it require a defense?

 

I know I thought it was kind of fun as a kid. I did a report on it in HS in my AP Sociology course, where we had to examine a religion. Lots of kids didn't know about it back then, and half of them didn't believe it was real and thought I was making fun of religion!

 

I would say it's more philosophical than many monotheistic religions, and underneath the superstitious stuff, there are some fairly good philosophic principles. I don't buy into the whole thing, of course, but there's some pragmatic self-help in it, more so than many religions. It's probably the Eastern influences that make me say that --- I think all the Eastern religions make more sense than anything else, basically (obvious why *I* would think that, I imagine).

 

I don't 'buy into' any of its major premises, but I don't buy into the Jesus myth either, so it's all about the same for me. To each their own, right? Clearly, it's a religion that brings some people a degree of comfort, which is the general purpose of religion on Earth.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I think that "South Park" would be the go-to source for information about Scientology.

 

Trapped in the Closet (Season 9, Episode 12) - Full Episode Player - South Park Studios

[writergal]

I think the main allure to Scientology is all the Hollywood celebrities and rock stars who are members; Tom Cruise, Kirstie Alley, Jennifer Lopez, to name a few. People assume Scientology must be safe, must be good, if celebrities are members.

 

People who lack direction, who are vulnerable, or bored, join cults or organized religions because they need someone else to control the direction of their lives.

 

Scientology is a cult because of the way it defrauds its members of their finances and civil rights. Once you become a member of Scientology, your life is no longer your own.

 

Dianetics is the self-help system created by science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard, which is what the tenets of Scientology consist of, and there are levels you have to achieve (which costs money) or "audit" in order to obtain enlightenment or freedom. And if you disagree with any of Scientology you are labeled an "SP" or suppressed person.

 

Then there's the whole Xenu alien mythology about Thetans. Scientology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edited July 10, 2012 by writergal

[CarrieT]

Tell! Tell!

 

It is all out on the 'net - suffice to say he was a philanderer and charlatan who stole another man's wife (Jack Parsons, the guy who helped start the Jet Propulsion Laboratory) and was a complete fabricator of his own history (google his Navy service).

[writergal]

L. Ron Hubbard was a total liar about his entire life's history. The myth of how Scientology was created centers on Hubbard placing a bet with a fellow sci-fi writer that he could create his own religion and get rich as a result.

 

The Story of Xenu, the space alien in Scientology

 

Narconon and L Ron Hubbard

Narconon Exposed: Is Narconon Valid? - The Nuclear Physicist

 

5 Biggest lies told by L Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard's 5 Most Impressive Lies (Besides Scientology) | Cracked.com

 

L. Ron Hubbard Jr outs his father as a liar

 

and

 

Scientology: L. Ron Hubbard Jr. Debate 2 - YouTube

 

L Ron Hubbard giving a lecture on Scientology's alien race

 

and

 

http://www.scientology.org/what-is-scientology.html

Edited July 10, 2012 by writergal

[Emilia]

There was a very good article in the Sunday Times about Cruise and Scientology's appeal to him (at significant personal costs to him as we know, at least 2 of his 3 marriages so far).

 

Apparently it tends to appeal to actors because of its focus on the self and of course a lot of actors are self centered by default. It makes the person the centre of the focus, it is a cult (religion) that turns the person into a God as it is supposed to give the sort of mental powers that are supernatural.

 

Wish I could link the article but it's a paying site. This is the allure but can't defend it, no. Without Cruise it would have gone bankrupt ages ago

[M30USA]

Don't believe any religion which doesn't have origins which go back to the very beginning. This immediately wipes out 90% of religions, including Scientology.

[zengirl]

Don't believe any religion which doesn't have origins which go back to the very beginning. This immediately wipes out 90% of religions, including Scientology.

 

That actually wipes out pretty much every religion that exists today, if we follow history, rather than religious texts. Hinduism *might* get a pass.

[M30USA]

That actually wipes out pretty much every religion that exists today, if we follow history, rather than religious texts. Hinduism *might* get a pass.

 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning....The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

-John 1

 

This means Jesus Christ (the Word) was with God (and was God) before the creation of the world.

[Woggle]

It's a bit wacky but how is it different than any other religion? At least they aren't flying planes into buildings or trying to pass laws to ban gay marriage and abortion.

[zengirl]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning....The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

-John 1

 

This means Jesus Christ (the Word) was with God (and was God) before the creation of the world.

 

All in a book that was written fairly recently, in terms of human history. Other religions have creation myths too. As does Scientology, in its own way.

[M30USA]

All in a book that was written fairly recently, in terms of human history. Other religions have creation myths too. As does Scientology, in its own way.

 

Ok, our difference is not in what the Bible says, but in that you believe it's a myth. At least we are clear on that. No further use discussing.

[zengirl]

Ok, our difference is not in what the Bible says, but in that you believe it's a myth. At least we are clear on that. No further use discussing.

 

Right, I was never debating what the Bible says. I was debating whether it is proper historical evidence of 'the beginning' since it was hardly written then, by all accounts.

 

I am referring to the characteristic many religions share - a creation myth - by it's sociological term. No, I don't believe it, or believe in Scientology. But to state it as fact would be no different than stating Scientology's beliefs as facts.

 

You stated you don't believe in any religion that doesn't 'have' origins back to the very beginning, not that didn't have 'a statement of origins back to the very beginning' (most do) or that didn't have 'a statement of origins back to the very beginning that [you] believe in' which is really what distinguishes your religion for you. That's fine, but stating your religious text as factual is no better than Tom Cruise saying we really are immortal beings who have forgotten our own nature or whatever. It has been said for several more centuries, granted, but hardly since the beginning of recorded human history.

[M30USA]

Zengirl,

 

I get what you're saying. My point is that there's a difference between having an explanation of creation (as many religions do) and having the central identity of a religion whose origin is from the very beginning. Jesus' origin from his flesh is traced back to Adam. It lists the name of every single man in line back to Adam. It also traces his spiritual origin not just back to Gob--but states that he is God.

 

If Scientology says we, ourselves are God, then why don't I remember creating the universe?

[CarrieT]

That actually wipes out pretty much every religion that exists today, if we follow history, rather than religious texts. Hinduism *might* get a pass.

 

And probably Zoroastriansim and Druidism...

[zengirl]

Zengirl,

 

I get what you're saying. My point is that there's a difference between having an explanation of creation (as many religions do) and having the central identity of a religion whose origin is from the very beginning. Jesus' origin from his flesh is traced back to Adam. It lists the name of every single man in line back to Adam. It also traces his spiritual origin not just back to Gob--but states that he is God.

 

No, that's a Creation Myth. You may view yours differently because you believe in it, but in logical form, it has no distinction.

 

Your religion is quite a bit older than Scientology, but there are plenty of older religions than yours I assume you will not defer to so the logic of "were here first" doesn't really work.

 

If Scientology says we, ourselves are God, then why don't I remember creating the universe?

 

Being immortal is not the same thing as being God. And. . . uh. . . Scientology says specifically, as I quoted, that as immortal beings we've forgotten our own nature, so I guess that's why. I'm no Scientologist, but I'm sure all that logic is included in their creation myth too.

 

And probably Zoroastriansim and Druidism...

 

True on Druidism, didn't think of it. Though didn't know Zoroastrianism even existed. Learn something new, every day!

[writergal]

Zengirl and M30USA: Here's a timeline (provided by Wiki) of religion. Feel free to augment your arguments based on these facts in black and white.

 

Timeline of religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

M30USA: FYI, Hinduism is the oldest, organized religion to date. Followed by Zoroastronism. Judism (i.e. "christianity") is not the only religion, or oldest, organized religion. But that argument is for another thread. Let's stick to Scientology, eh?

 

What is the oldest organized religion?

 

I'm still waiting to see if there are any Scientologists here in LS who are willing to come and defend it as a religion.

[zengirl]

Thanks for the timeline. Didn't mean to derail and I think I've made my actual point anyway.

 

I'm actually curious as to what got Star thinking about Scientology, if she comes back in. Doesn't look like we have any Scientologists hanging around so far.

[Feelin Frisky]

Wish I could help but immortality is nonsense. We are not that important to the universe--we are products of it that get to be part for a while and then our atoms go back into the basic mass. Done. I've long reconciled with that fact and don't feel cheated in the least.

[Star Gazer]

I'm still waiting to see if there are any Scientologists here in LS who are willing to come and defend it as a religion.

 

Me too. That's what I was looking for. Seems like the consensus is that it's a load of bull, which makes me that much more curious about those who believe in it.