Scientology: Can you defend it?

[Star Gazer]

I'm actually curious as to what got Star thinking about Scientology, if she comes back in. Doesn't look like we have any Scientologists hanging around so far.

 

The Holmes v. Cruise divorce spotlighted on Access Hollywood last night with details about how Scientology probably played a role in both of his divorces, and how she's now branded an "SP." It just made me curious, is all. Nothing more.

[Radu]

SP means that she is to be targetted by everyone who is a Scientologist to do the most ammount of harm to her, and that anything to hurt her is ok with them.

Cruise was and still is afterall nr 2 in it.

 

Harassment in private and public, she will get a lot of dirt thrown at her, and maybe frivolous lawsuits.

 

This is afterall the only organization that was caught spying on the US government made of US citizens and the organization that allegedly blackmailed several IRS men to get tax-free status even though it's for profit.

 

I see a pattern tbh, there are rumours that Cruise is secretly gay, there was that other actor who lost his son because the religion didn't allow him to treat his epilepsy and who was also gay.

They will certainly do everything to protect their big names.

[BetheButterfly]

The Holmes v. Cruise divorce spotlighted on Access Hollywood last night with details about how Scientology probably played a role in both of his divorces, and how she's now branded an "SP." It just made me curious, is all. Nothing more.

 

It makes me curious too. I don't know very much about Scientology. I'm not at all interested in joining it, but it would be interesting to learn about.

 

I feel sorry for Tom Cruise. Breakups hurt, no matter the belief of a person. I am glad for Katie Holmes though. If she was indeed being controlled which sounds very likely, that is also hurtful. I am glad she is free. I wish them both the best, as well as their little daughter. It does make me sad when any marriage, regardless of beliefs, breaks up. I know by experience how painful a break up can be.

[Feelin Frisky]

Me too. That's what I was looking for. Seems like the consensus is that it's a load of bull, which makes me that much more curious about those who believe in it.

 

It's a cult that has rich and powerful patrons. You don't have to be a genius to be rich and powerful and thus, it is likely that there is some superstition in believing if one rich and powerful person endorses it, there must be something to it. But it is a theory based upon the supposition of immortality and that is clearly a "belief" which can qualify as the grounds of a religion. L. Ron Hubbard and followers simply took advantage of every tax advantage to get Scientology viewed as a religion while promoting "dianetics" for decades on TV as some special reasoning to find (fill in the blank___ nirvana, enlightenment, your spirituality, your best self, blah, blah and more blah). Any routine of investing consciousness--especially with a socio-sphere around it where other people join in and bolster faith in the tenets will lead to a more developed consciousness that can be interpreted as enlightenment or spiritual consciousness--they are not out drinking and whoring. But when the culture founds itself upon such an assumption as immortality and other "beliefs", each person in it sacrifices some will and power to the authority of the dogma. Thus it has lords and followers all of whom have individual experiences which differ.

[M30USA]

Zengirl,

 

It's interesting that you said Hinduism is the oldest religion to date. I'm not aware if that's correct or not. I had thought monotheism was first.

 

Anyway, even the Bible says that the Almighty God designated certain nations or geographical areas to certain "gods" who are actually fallen angels all ruled by Satan. It's only once Abraham came along that God chose a people out of the pagan nations to a be a nation for himself--or his "portion". This was all Gods plan, according to the Bible. So even though the Jews did not come around until later, it was Gods plan. He gave, and continues to give, the majority of the world to Satan. Even the first religions were Satan's. But to say that since these came before the Bible in chronological order they are more original is to miss the point. The higher issue is: who is God? When John the Baptist was baptizing people in the Jordan, Jesus walked up to him and John said to the crowd that, even though Jesus came after him, he came BEFORE him.

[writergal]

Has anyone clicked on the links I provided? Listening to L Ron Hubbard tell the creation myth story for Scientology is really creepy. His own son even disowned him after he grew up, because he knew Hubbard was cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

 

Scientology is definitely a cult. Just going through news interview footage and other footage on Youtube from former Scientologists is eye-opening to just how corrupt and evil Scientology really is.

[writergal]

Zengirl,

 

It's interesting that you said Hinduism is the oldest religion to date. I'm not aware if that's correct or not. I had thought monotheism was first.

 

Anyway, even the Bible says that the Almighty God designated certain nations or geographical areas to certain "gods" who are actually fallen angels all ruled by Satan. It's only once Abraham came along that God chose a people out of the pagan nations to a be a nation for himself--or his "portion". This was all Gods plan, according to the Bible. So even though the Jews did not come around until later, it was Gods plan. He gave, and continues to give, the majority of the world to Satan. Even the first religions were Satan's. But to say that since these came before the Bible in chronological order they are more original is to miss the point. The higher issue is: who is God? When John the Baptist was baptizing people in the Jordan, Jesus walked up to him and John said to the crowd that, even though Jesus came after him, he came BEFORE him.

 

Really M30USA why must you threadjack a nice Scientology discussion with your argument about God. Plus, I already provided you and Zengirl with a factual link about the history of religion.

 

I think you should start a new thread, or stop ranting about the Bible (again) and join in the Scientology discussion. Yeah? I'm sure you have an opinion about Tom Cruise and Scientology that has nothing to do with Jesus and the Bible?

[M30USA]

Really M30USA why must you threadjack a nice Scientology discussion with your argument about God. Plus, I already provided you and Zengirl with a factual link about the history of religion.

 

I think you should start a new thread, or stop ranting about the Bible (again) and join in the Scientology discussion. Yeah? I'm sure you have an opinion about Tom Cruise and Scientology that has nothing to do with Jesus and the Bible?

 

The thread subject is whether or not Scientology can be defended. I said no. Another poster sidetracked with saying that all religions can be eliminated in response to a litmus test I put forth. I then replied to that. Forgive me for going too in-depth and not following your intended sequence of discussion. And for the record, almost all of my own threads have been butchered by atheists and agnostics.

[zengirl]

Zengirl,

 

It's interesting that you said Hinduism is the oldest religion to date. I'm not aware if that's correct or not. I had thought monotheism was first.

 

Most of the 'dead' religions that existed long ago were not monotheistic. You can click on writergal's link to see a timeline. Hinduism is definitely older than Christianity or Judaism, by quite a spell. I don't want to derail the thread further - my point is that using the Bible to defend the veracity and objectivity of your views is no different than Scientology using their myths and materials to defend the veracity and objectivity of their views.

 

The Holmes v. Cruise divorce spotlighted on Access Hollywood last night with details about how Scientology probably played a role in both of his divorces, and how she's now branded an "SP." It just made me curious, is all. Nothing more.

 

Gotcha. At any rate, I've met at least two Scientologists in my life, a couple. Normal seeming people. Didn't know them well. Some of the celebrity Scientology stuff sounds crazy, of course, and it all sounds a bit nutter to me - but so do many supernatural ideas if you don't believe in them. Tom Cruise definitely seems off his rocker.

 

Has anyone clicked on the links I provided? Listening to L Ron Hubbard tell the creation myth story for Scientology is really creepy. His own son even disowned him after he grew up, because he knew Hubbard was cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

 

Scientology is definitely a cult. Just going through news interview footage and other footage on Youtube from former Scientologists is eye-opening to just how corrupt and evil Scientology really is.

 

I really wonder where one draws the line between cult and religion.

 

Most modern religious practices are fairly vanilla, with members at least (not saying how the react to outsiders), but they certainly weren't always and not all are. Is there any real distinguishing characteristic? I am religious, fwiw, so not an attempt to really disrespect religion or defend cults, but it seems the only difference is 1. how many people accept it and 2. how the individual reacts to it.

 

ETA: Not defending Scientology - it all sounds crazy to me. I've just always wondered about the language of 'cults'

[M30USA]

Eh....

 

Sometimes you can't get anywhere by limiting your support to external sources outside a religion. You will never get anywhere but a dead end. So if it means using internal sources (what you call myths) to bring to light internal inconsistencies, then we should do just that. And, by the way, Zengirl, if you are presuming from the outset that religions are "myth", why are you trying to discuss Scientology? You have labelled it as myth, already.

[writergal]

Here's a recent interview with a former Scientologist who was on Anderson Cooper.

 

Former Scientologist speaks on religion – Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

 

Star Gazer, I think there's plenty of evidence NOT to support Scientology. But I applaud you for trying to start a thread asking people to defend it. I don't think it's possible to defend it, because it's such a crazy cult.

[denise_xo]

I had thought monotheism was first.

 

Not at all, and not by far.

[denise_xo]

if you are presuming from the outset that religions are "myth", why are you trying to discuss Scientology?

 

Are you suggesting that the only people who are allowed to discuss Scientology are those who believe in it? Does that also mean that the only people who can discuss, say, Islam, are the Muslims?

[M30USA]

Are you suggesting that the only people who are allowed to discuss Scientology are those who believe in it? Does that also mean that the only people who can discuss, say, Islam, are the Muslims?

 

What? You completely missed my point. My point is that one minute she's labelling ALL religous texts/views in general as "myths", then the next minute shes talking on a thread about whether Scientology can be defended or not. If you're going to presume at the outset that religion is myth, why even bother discussing something you've already made your mind up about? You've already called Scientology a "myth" by fact that you call all religious views myths.

[William]

To save myself from giving a wide range of posters infractions for off-topic posting (way off-topic), I'll just close this up. No edits; no deletions. Hope it helped.