The power of Apology

[Ducky23]

Hi, I'm new to this area of the site. So I'll give you a little history. I'm a single mom, I share a house with my sons' father. I am a survivor of incest; rape; physical, emotional, and mental abuse; alcoholic/drug addicted parents; and an ex-addict. I have PTSD, Borderline Personality Disorder, and have been diagnosed Depressed and Bi-Polar as well. Recently I left a relationship. I am still dealing with the aftermath.

I have also been doing a lot of soul-searching lately. And I have realized that although I fought to not live the life of a victim, I have in fact, been living the life of a victim. The words, the memories, the fear.. It still haunts me. It still affects me. It has lasted my whole life. 19 years ago I told the first person ever about the molestation. People who were supposed to protect me as a baby, as a child, never did. They chose instead to protect the abuser(s). They shunned me, called me a liar, and a lot worse. I was the black sheep. And I never thought it affected me. That I was okay on my own. I have stepped away from them and moved on to try and build a better life for myself, and now for my children as well. Last year, an ex-boyfriend (he broke me, completely, shattered everything I was, physical-emotional-mental.. Gone) actually apologized to me. This man tried multiple times to kill me while I was pregnant, raped me, tore me down. For 3 years. Last year he told me "I'm sorry. You aren't all of the things I said. You didn't deserve what I did/said to you. I was in the wrong." and I was flooded with emotion. It felt like absolute relief, as though he had freed me from chains, prison. Not long after that he proved his true evil, but nonetheless I had a week or two of relief. Not long ago I was thinking.. "What if these people simply apologized to me? Admitted what was done, and accepted their faults?" I think I'm held prisoner by the things I've lived through because there was never closure for me. No justice. No apology. No nothing.

 

So I'm asking: Regardless of the person/situation, if you had an abuser cop to the wrongs they'd committed, apologized, and took all of the blame, how would it affect you? Would it be like a Get out of Jail free card? Would you be more able to move past those memories? If you feel guilt over the situation, would you be able to lay it to rest?

 

If you've gotten an apology, how did you react? Did it "free" you? Did it have the affect you expected/hoped for?

[CopingGal]

Good God I am so sorry about everything you have been through. I hope you are in therapy.

 

My ex doesn't believe in apologizing for anything unless he has an agenda. Which is why when he wanted me back, he apologized and when he did things to me that were even worse, he did not because he was done with me.

 

Like other sociopathic men and full sociopaths, my ex has no remorse. So if my ex apologized, the only thing I would be thinking is "What is his agenda?" My ex is not allowed in my house. I don't think he has my phone number or address anymore so I shouldn't be getting a letter from him or a phone call. The last time he sent me a snail mail letter was not to apologize, but was to send me a letter about the woman he cheated on me with, and past women. It was 15 pages long. I didn't read it. I asked my roommate to read it. He read it and ripped it up.

 

Ducky, regarding you, you can check out my post on page:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/coping/331165-knowing-you-no-longer-her-type-never-will#post4095148

 

 

The post is #14 on that page. There are links to a woman who specializes in BPD if you need some info. I am so, so sorry for all that you have suffered.

Edited July 11, 2012 by CopingGal

[Ducky23]

Good God I am so sorry about everything you have been through. I hope you are in therapy.

 

My ex doesn't believe in apologizing for anything unless he has an agenda. Which is why when he wanted me back, he apologized and when he did things to me that were even worse, he did not because he was done with me.

 

Like other sociopathic men and full sociopaths, my ex has no remorse. So if my ex apologized, the only thing I would be thinking is "What is his agenda?" My ex is not allowed in my house. I don't think he has my phone number or address anymore so I shouldn't be getting a letter from him or a phone call. The last time he sent me a snail mail letter was not to apologize, but was to send me a letter about the woman he cheated on me with, and past women. It was 15 pages long. I didn't read it. I asked my roommate to read it. He read it and ripped it up.

 

Ducky, regarding you, you can check out my post on page:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/coping/331165-knowing-you-no-longer-her-type-never-will#post4095148

 

 

The post is #14 on that page. There are links to a woman who specializes in BPD if you need some info. I am so, so sorry for all that you have suffered.

 

I've been in and out of therapy for 19 years. On and off medication. Back and forth between stable and stupid. This Thursday I'm going again to book yet another appointment with yet another therapist. 9 years ago I found a woman whom I still call my guardian angel. She was my therapist for 2 years. I owe my life to her. But she specifically counsels youths. So I'm on a hunt for another good one. I was stable emotionally through all of the excessive crap my ex doled out and continued to be so until my youngest son was born. A super bad case of post partum that teetered on psychosis made me seek medication and therapy 16 months ago. It brought back everything bad from my past, and I have felt quite stuck, trying to stop shoving it away and finally, again, taking it head on and trying to fix myself and move past it.

My ex was like that. After he had apologized, he came back to me asking for a blowjob. I realized then that it was not a true apology, and instead self-serving. It was not a good time for me. That was the first and last time I turned him away. And he has stayed gone. For which I'm grateful. But I still feel like a prisoner to him. Today a friend told me "you suck. You failed at your own goals. What a loser. You fail." and immediately it brought me back to that abuse, my ex had used almost those exact words so many times.. I know my friend meant it with no harm intended, we constantly poke each other this way. I'm tough skinned and can pretty much take it if I know it's said in good humor and not to be taken meanly. I let him know later that he had crossed a line and he immediately apologized. He didn't realize how much it still affected me. He wasn't speaking of anything except my career choice. But it hurt nonetheless. That's what made me think of writing this post.

[Ducky23]

Also, yes I know of DBT and EMDR. I was given a DBT handbook/worksheets by my last therapist and I still use it. It has been a wonderful help with coping through all of this and staying objective while I work through stuff

[CopingGal]

Under even much better circumstances, it can take YEARS to find a good therapist. So if Dialectical behavior therapy works for you, then it would be good to find a therapist that does that.

 

Heres a hug for you (((((HUG)))), and honey, thank your lucky stars that you don't have antisocial personality disorder because I'm telling you, that could be so much worse. Yes, BPD is much more painful, but APD is much more dysfunctional, much more. IF you speak with that Linehan, maybe you can give you the names of some good psychologist practicing DBT in your area. You mentioned another type of therapist. Maybe she can help you finding someone who does that if it works for you.

 

Keep posting here darling, and give yourself a break. You've been through so much. Take care of you .

[Exit]

An apology from my last abusive ex wouldn't really do much for me because it would be coming from the same person who was extremely dishonest and a great actor all along. As a matter of fact I don't have to guess if an apology would free me or not because she pretty much did apologize in some of the emails we exchanged soon after the breakup. She told me I had seen her at her worst and she was sorry for what she put me through, but hearing those words didn't really change anything. She was still hurting me, still moving on, still choosing to do things with other people that I had begged her to do with me, so getting an apology in the midst of all that didn't really prove much. And 8 months later I am still hurting so no, the apology was not enough to help. It was an apology without any action behind it. If she had said sorry I treated you so badly and I want to fix things then maybe it would be different.

[Brit]

Apologies are empty, shallow. If an apology came with deep regret, and that person proved that their actions, their regret caused them deep pain, shame, and had to go through years and years of intense therapy to get to the root of their problems, there is a slight possibilty of forgiveness, but in any other case the apology, if the above was not sought, it is an apology for themselves, not you, they are feeding off you, for their own agenda and selfish needs. Even with the above, if done, trust would still be hard to fathom.

[CopingGal]

The first apology my ex gave to me came with a lot of action. He did this and that...a lot of things to "prove" his apology and love. But it was all play acting and pretending and going through the motions. None of it was real. None of it was in his heart, he only did it so I wouldn't leave him again. He didn't do it because he had changed. The only difference was that he was doing more terrible things behind my back and being nicer to me in my face until he could no longer keep up the charade.

 

When his treatment got much worse, there was no apology. When he cheated on me- no apology. When I found out he lead me on all those years- no apology. All I got was an "I don't know why I did this these" and an intense expectation for me to get over things right away, be his friend and willingly let him talk about his dates, his sex life and his love life with the woman he cheated on me with.

[fucpcg]

The people who do things like you describe have their own horror stories growing up that turned them into the monsters they become. It's not like someone goes from a loving home to being an abuser, murderer, rapist. HOWEVER, that is not your concern. When someone is damaged enough to do those things, they are not even remotely healthy enough to understand the horror in their actions, or they wouldn't do them. Your concern is your own healthy, safety, sanity. As a spiritual teacher that I follow wrote "You can see a lion in a cage, and feel bad for him, but that doesn't mean you try to go in and comfort and save him. If you try to do that the lion will eat you". I am sure there is an awful story behind this man, but you cannot help him, nor should you worry about, nor should you be expecting an apology.

[Brit]

Coping Girl, sorry you went through that. I think that shows, that people who are broken from within, but do not keep it within, and their core self is to hurt others, this behavior will never change.

Physical violence, I have no tolerance for. For myself, I know it is different for those who are having to go through physical abuse now. Hell, it is all the same, it is abuse.

I believe all of us surviving abuse, we are better than their apologies, we are above their apologies.

I remember, how I can remember at that age, my parent at the time, he was very broken. I could not swim, we were at a very large, busy, public inside pool, and I was interested stubbornly in the deep end of one of the huge pools, with the several high foot diving boards, not sure, but, my young stubborness, I kept going to that area, and looking over, maybe curious, this must of pissed him off, but my, who should have been my protector, bumped me in, I remember looking up to the surface, while sinking, I was not sure how to get to the top, I was lucky, very lucky, that someone was doing, what I see people do now, professional laps, back and forth across the pool, and their hand/foot, not sure, smacked me, and they brought me to the surface.

Of course when young, I would never tell on my, who I thought then was my protector, he was my parent. I loved him.

Years later, I have no idea how I found his number, he was in the west, I was a couple states away, in my early teens, and I felt this urgency to call him, I was living with a group of friends, and he was shocked i called him, I told him my current state, he said something about sorry, I asked if I could come live there, if he remembered, I could always see his pain after these events, and I was always there to comfort him, it was a really strange conversation, and he said no, I have a family, and you cannot, and do not contact me again, and I am sorry for that, but I am different now, and have my own family.

Life is weird.

[Brit]

"The people who do things like you describe have their own horror stories growing up that turned them into the monsters they become. It's not like someone goes from a loving home to being an abuser, murderer, rapist."

 

(Most of these type criminals stem from overindulgence, spoiling, and lack of any consequences, lack of dicipline and parenting while growing up, they simply feel they can do what they wish to anyone without consequence, and then when cornered, use abuse as an excuse).

[Ducky23]

Apologies are empty, shallow. If an apology came with deep regret, and that person proved that their actions, their regret caused them deep pain, shame, and had to go through years and years of intense therapy to get to the root of their problems, there is a slight possibilty of forgiveness, but in any other case the apology, if the above was not sought, it is an apology for themselves, not you, they are feeding off you, for their own agenda and selfish needs. Even with the above, if done, trust would still be hard to fathom.

 

You're speaking of an apology from a person who has some role in your life, or who may have a role in your life. That's what I gather. I'm thinking about, someone who has not been around. Who comes to you out of nowhere simply to say "I'm sorry, it wasn't your fault. I shouldn't have hurt you that way." and then leaves again. Not to rebuild trust or a relationship of any sort, not through coercion or because it's "expected", but on their own. Of their own accord.

I think I'm a lot different from other people, but I also believe that a lot of victims who are still affected by the abuse at any level carry a form of guilt. The "shoulda woulda coulda" mentality. About why it's their fault. What they could have done differently, ect.. I do. I carry a huge burden of guilt. Why didn't I "wake up" and tell my grandfather no? To not touch me? Because I was 5 and terrified and didn't understand. But why couldn't I keep my cousins safe? Because I didn't know until years later. Why wouldn't anyone believe me? Because they're blissful in their denial and "perfect" life. Intellectually I know the answers to those questions. But it doesn't change the emotional response. The guilt and anger and sadness. To this day I think of how I could have protected the younger girls. I couldn't because it was their parents' decisions who put them there and allowed it. I was too scared to stand up to him and make it stop. But if I had known, would it have given me the strength I needed? I suck at standing up for myself. But I've been a wonderful advocate and standing up for other people. I have always been a protector, especially to those younger than myself.

In the case of my mother, the abuse and neglect I received from her.. I forgave her when she got sober and started making wonderfully positive changes in her life. We have a good relationship now. But I still feel the pain when I think of the things I went through as a child. How her actions helped shape my life. She has never apologized to me for the things she's done and said. I don't believe she ever will. But I truly feel like it would help me heal more fully. To hear that she understands what was done and why it was wrong. Instead of hearing her say that we had a perfect childhood and never wanted for anything growing up.

[CopingGal]

Ducky and Brit, I am truly, truly sorry you have gone through...so much pain. I am so glad these forums are here to help you. I really am.

[Brit]

Hi CopingGal, how are you doing/feeling?

 

Ducky23, could you rephrase your question, it may be me, but not sure what you are asking. Accepting apologies? There is no power in an apology, unless there are significant actions and true remorse that are side by side with that apology.

[CopingGal]

Hi Brit. I am doing okay. Thank you. I'm eagerly waiting for the 15th to come so I can celebrate leaving my bf (year anniversary). I can't wait to go to that nice restaurant my roommate is taking me to. I'm really looking forward to the projects I have planned for this weekend.

 

As always, it still hurts a lot, but I'm getting through and I'm healing.

 

How about you?

[Ducky23]

Hi CopingGal, how are you doing/feeling?

 

Ducky23, could you rephrase your question, it may be me, but not sure what you are asking. Accepting apologies? There is no power in an apology, unless there are significant actions and true remorse that are side by side with that apology.

 

Brit, I apologize if my original question wasn't quite clear. I suppose the question was: does an apology from the abuser help the abused resolve guilt they may carry from the abuse?

[todreaminblue]

Hi, I'm new to this area of the site. So I'll give you a little history. I'm a single mom, I share a house with my sons' father. I am a survivor of incest; rape; physical, emotional, and mental abuse; alcoholic/drug addicted parents; and an ex-addict. I have PTSD, Borderline Personality Disorder, and have been diagnosed Depressed and Bi-Polar as well. Recently I left a relationship. I am still dealing with the aftermath.

I have also been doing a lot of soul-searching lately. And I have realized that although I fought to not live the life of a victim, I have in fact, been living the life of a victim. The words, the memories, the fear.. It still haunts me. It still affects me. It has lasted my whole life. 19 years ago I told the first person ever about the molestation. People who were supposed to protect me as a baby, as a child, never did. They chose instead to protect the abuser(s). They shunned me, called me a liar, and a lot worse. I was the black sheep. And I never thought it affected me. That I was okay on my own. I have stepped away from them and moved on to try and build a better life for myself, and now for my children as well. Last year, an ex-boyfriend (he broke me, completely, shattered everything I was, physical-emotional-mental.. Gone) actually apologized to me. This man tried multiple times to kill me while I was pregnant, raped me, tore me down. For 3 years. Last year he told me "I'm sorry. You aren't all of the things I said. You didn't deserve what I did/said to you. I was in the wrong." and I was flooded with emotion. It felt like absolute relief, as though he had freed me from chains, prison. Not long after that he proved his true evil, but nonetheless I had a week or two of relief. Not long ago I was thinking.. "What if these people simply apologized to me? Admitted what was done, and accepted their faults?" I think I'm held prisoner by the things I've lived through because there was never closure for me. No justice. No apology. No nothing.

 

So I'm asking: Regardless of the person/situation, if you had an abuser cop to the wrongs they'd committed, apologized, and took all of the blame, how would it affect you? Would it be like a Get out of Jail free card? Would you be more able to move past those memories? If you feel guilt over the situation, would you be able to lay it to rest?

 

If you've gotten an apology, how did you react? Did it "free" you? Did it have the affect you expected/hoped for?

 

 

 

You are a brave person ducky,its hard to open up to people about molestation as its common for people to want to hide from such confrontational news.....either family or friends......you get called a liar or an attention seeking trouble starter....or child of satan (thats my personal fave)you might think you are living the life of a victim but you are not..... you are living as a survivor and there are many and living with mental illness seems to be a common after effect.....I never received an apology and to be honest an apology if it were to happen would not provide me with closure as I already found it quite a while ago I can find positivity in what happened to me when i was five.....the negatives are there but they arent my negatives......they belong to the male who abused me and his wife who stood by and did nothing.......i am not a victim of theirs....they are the victims of their own sickness......i am a survivor of their sickness and even with their twisted lives intercepting mine......i can find positives in everything that has happened to me from then till now....i have the ability to share hope......that is my closure....no apology required......

[Brit]

Brit, I apologize if my original question wasn't quite clear. I suppose the question was: does an apology from the abuser help the abused resolve guilt they may carry from the abuse?

 

No, an apology from an abuser means very little, an apology from an abuser is usually done for the abuser's own selfish gain. I hope you find a way to resolve feeling guilt, for which you should not hold onto, you only survived the abuse in the moment, and how you handled being in that position is no way your fault, only person at fault is the ABUSER, no ifs, ands, or buts.

[Radu]

I'll tell you my situation, it's not as horrible as some of the ones here ... and i don't think it should have affected me as much as it did in the end.

Quite frankly ducky, your history made me want to puke.

 

I was ok untill 5, i lived with my parents and with my younger sister.

Then, my grandfather came and asked for me and my sister to live with them during kindergarden, since it was cheaper and easier on both of my working parents.

I want to mention that i was never sexually abused [i believe i was lucky there].

But i got physically abused.

My sister was my grandparent's only niece and my grandfather was either narcisistic or egotistical ... i remember too little of know.

Being his only niece she was precious to them, so very precious.

I don't know how it started, but i started getting punished with beatings ... not severe ones, my grandfather said that he saw 'something evil in me'.

Soon my sister learned that when she cried she got instant attention and i got instantly punished.

He had a nice dog, but he kept it tied up, so it was bitter. I got bitten 3 times in under 1yr. I remember the last time i was bleeding a lot and i ran to the back of the yard with blood dripping, thinking of running and hiding into the garden near the hills because i knew i was going to get it.

I never got a tetanous shot, and my parents did not know i had been bitten untill i was much older [college], he never told them.

He found me by the trail i left behind a few hs after.

My parents came almost every week-end, i was dressed in long clothes to hide the bruises and i cried every time they left, i wanted to go with them. I usually recovered by Tuesday [they usually left on Monday mornings].

My grandpa was such a kind man that he beat up his wife on the day that his son got married, because she didn't prepare something perfect for the wedding and his son's future wife cried.

That son soon cut all ties with them, his wife was a bigger bitch than my grandpa.

Eventually my dad saw the bruises and confronted my grandpa, and it stopped, but we never got along after that.

Still, he was successfull, my sister and I needed over 15yrs to get along and i still see the damage he did.

I think during these 2yrs my imagination took off, had to do something.

Sister was still treated nice when my cousins visited [my dad's brother's kids], but i was punished extra [example maybe ?].

Next time i saw my grandpa was when i was 13, he was dying ... i felt nothing for him, no hatred, no nothing. I didn't remember much of my childhood at the time, and i kept counting the minutes before we had to leave.

I later found out that his type of personality ran into his family, i started calling it 'the family curse'.

I could not shed a tear when i found out he died [or grandma], or at their funeral.

For a while i thought i was evil for it.

 

I did not go to kindergarden, i will not allow for my kids to not have the social experience of going there.

Most of my class had gone there, the 1st day of school i was chosen to teach a lesson in discipline, i talked back to the teacher and i was sent home.

It was a neighbourhood school, home was not further than 500m. I was in the city just for a few weeks though and I had no friends, knew no-one.

Dad found me 3hs after school ended inside the school, just me and the janitor were still there.

Over my 1st grade i asked them, pleaded with them, begged them not to go back, i didn't want to go back to that teacher, i wanted a different teacher.

60yr old skinny ball busting dominating battle-axe who's husband was a colonel with the fire department. This behind the wall, before '89' in a communist state ... yeah, the b*tch was untouchable.

She was heavy into public humiliation, but i got out fine because my dad used to tell me to be proud, never bow down, ancestors and all that.

Another girl in my class ... is messed up badly. And the rest are not doing so great either.

It was a double edged sword, no matter what the teacher did, she couldn't break me, but on the other hand i refused to kiss ass with the kids on the playground ... which meant that i was supposed to be beaten daily.

Most days i would be 1-2hs late for home, by taking alternate routes to the destination and mapping all exit points out of the school.

Believe it or not, i'm proud of this, i knew when it was coming and i always outsmarted them, it was actually exciting ... up to the 6th grade untill they stopped they never got me.

My tactics would have made Rommell envious.

 

I received an apology from my mom and I knew my dad was conflicted over it.

I still see some of my grandpa's behaviour in me ... i fully believe that BPD is not inherited ... i believe it is taught, going by experience.

I'm not at his level [thank GOD], but i sometimes do things that bother me.

I like to empathise with ppl, to feel what they feel, but when my dog pissed me off sometimes i kick him. It's stupid and immature what i do, and it scares me as i write this, because i'm afraid that i will act with my kids the same way my grandpa acted.

 

I never received an apology from my grandpa, grandma [for enabling], and my teacher.

Never received an apology from my school staff for throwing me under the buss to protect another classmate who was good at sports [he tried to break my skull, i needed stitches and went to the ER].

 

I don't think these ppl can fully apologize untill they can empathise with the **** they did, then again ... how did they become this messed up in the first place ?

 

I never said this on this forum, and i post a lot on dating and such, but what i want in a woman is most of all to have a cheerfull personality and to not have gone through this kind of ****.

Because i am afraid that i might pass this onto my own kids, my grandpa's 'curse'.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Radu

[CopingGal]

How are Brit and Ducky today?