Is a wife obligated to have sex regularly?

[carhill]

New York state still has the option of 'fault' divorce. Here's two relevant (to the discussion) grounds (bolding mine):

 

Abandonment

 

Abandonment may be actual or constructive. Actual abandonment is usually one spouse leaving the marital residence without the consent of the other spouse without intention to return. One spouse may also lock out the other spouse from the marital residence. Constructive abandonment is the refusal of "basic obligation arising from the marital contract," including a cessation of sexual relations; establishing such a prior constructive abandonment may render the spouse who leaves, or locks out the other, as the innocent spouse.

 

Adultery

 

Adultery is difficult to prove as it requires corroborating evidence from a third party; thus a statement by the defendant that he or she had sexual relations with a third party is not legally admissible to permit the court to grant a divorce to the plaintiff. Furthermore, if the adultery was "condoned", i.e. the cheated-on party knew about the extra-marital sexual relationship but continued to stay in a marital, conjugal relationship with their spouse, the adultery cannot serve as a cause for divorce.

 

I included adultery because it, too, is an abrogation of the fundamental marital contract and obligation. A marital partner is obligated to remain sexually and emotionally faithful to his or her spouse.

 

Slippery slope.....

[Mme. Chaucer]

If a person is sexually unfulfilled and "abandoned" in their marriage, I don't think it's unreasonable to divorce.

 

And if the only reason a wife has sex with her husband is because of this marital "obligation," then I imagine that divorce is a good idea.

[carhill]

I agree, and that (divorce) is one remedy to a unilateral abrogation of one's marital commitment, whether for cause or 'just because I feel/don't feel like it'. There are other remedies available and I think a truly committed couple should investigate them prior to terminating the contract permanently.

 

We can examine the other obligations of marriage for more on the slippery slope. Commitment and abrogation of same are very much equal opportunity. I think a general thread on that issue would be worthwhile discussion.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I agree, and that (divorce) is one remedy to a unilateral abrogation of one's marital commitment, whether for cause or 'just because I feel/don't feel like it'. There are other remedies available and I think a truly committed couple should investigate them prior to terminating the contract permanently.

 

Sadly, by the time it gets to that point it is often too late. The other remedies need to be explored sooner, I think.

 

We can examine the other obligations of marriage for more on the slippery slope. Commitment and abrogation of same are very much equal opportunity. I think a general thread on that issue would be worthwhile discussion.

 

Okay, you start.

[Els]

The thing about sex, to me anyway, is that it's pointless if the other person isn't wholeheartedly into it and enjoying themselves. In that way, it's different and separate from other actual 'obligations' such as honesty and loyalty, sharing work, taking care of a sick partner, etc. To me, someone having sex with you because they're obligated to is exactly the same as your partner saying they love you because you threw an unholy tantrum about them not having said it, or proposing to you because you gave them an ultimatum of 'do it today or else'. Utterly and completely pointless.

 

My experience has been that men who genuinely care about a woman and her sexual pleasure do not enjoy obligation sex, not the least bit. To them, if sex doesn't involve the enjoyment of both parties, it's not enjoyable for them. That is, IMO, a far better way to approach sex, and very likely to actually get the man more and better sex. When they want sex with a woman, they don't go around arguing how it's her obligation to satisfy his needs - they romance her, seduce her, do their darndest to learn how to give her so much pleasure that she WANTS to jump their bones.

[carhill]

Sadly, by the time it gets to that point it is often too late. The other remedies need to be explored sooner, I think.

 

 

 

Okay, you start.

That's a great light bulb, in light of what I often read in the infidelity forums. If couples would just investigate remedies at the beginning, before substantively engaging in actions covered in this thread as well as in those forums, more potential for a positive and healthy outcome would exist, whether that be reaffirming the marital contract, renegotiating same, or terminating same.

 

I don't start threads often but will put something together after doing a historical search.

[Mme. Chaucer]

The thing about sex, to me anyway, is that it's pointless if the other person isn't wholeheartedly into it and enjoying themselves.

 

If you're married, and you really care about your partner's happiness and the well-being of the marriage, there will be times that one has sort of obligatory sex.

 

Like, you really are not wholeheartedly into it, but you know your partner really wants / needs it, and you are willing to put yourself out that way as an act of love and caring. Part of this, IMO, though, is the attitude that you are going to get into it as you go along - you are open to and actually expecting that, rather than doing the "dead and obligatory sex" behavior.

 

A partner is also obligated, IMO, to respect their loved ones feelings. If your partner (I refuse to even entertain the notion that men/husbands are entitled to sex and women/wives are obliged to service them that way, that just makes me sick and angry) really does not feel like having sex with you - maybe they are exhausted, upset, ill, or there are unresolved negative malingering between you - it is YOUR marital obligation to respect this and allow your partner the freedom to not have sex when they really need to not go there.

 

Both people need to be aware of what they are contributing, both positively and negatively to their sex life in a marriage. That sex life is going to include some waxing and waning. It's up to the people to learn new ways of keeping it fresh and on track. To BOTH of the people.

[carhill]

Here's an excerpt from the OP, for clarity:

 

"While a woman isn't obligated to have sex as a function only of being a wife, I think she does have that obligation as a function of loving her husband and recognizing his needs. Many women seem to feel, especially as they get older, or sometimes after having a child, that men can just do for themselves. If women don't feel like having sex, or if they have lost their drive, which is extremely common, too bad for Johnny."

 

It sounds like the OP is agreeing to specifying the 'obligation' to be a function of 'loving her husband and recognizing his needs'.

[mercy]

obligatedpast participle, past tense of ob·li·gate (Verb)

 

Verb:

• Bind or compel (someone), esp. legally or morally.
  
• Commit (assets) as security: "the money must be obligated within 30 days".
  

 

 

Partners who choose to commit to each other, all the way back to their most elementary commitment of dating exclusively, bind and obligate themselves to their partner through moral and, later, legal contracts.

 

 

 

Those obligations do not exist in a vacuum. They are part of the continuum of the couple's non-legal and, later, legal marital contract.

 

 

 

 

 

If one wishes to abrogate their legal and moral obligations, it requires notice and renegotiation of the contract; if one chooses to ignore or avoid their obligations/discussion of them/renegotiation of them, one makes that choice fully cognizant of the consequences, some of which can be/are adverse to the person making said choice.

 

 

If a marital partner freely commits to making love exclusively and voluntarily with their partner, and later reneges on that commitment, that has consequences as remedy for their abandonment of their obligation which was formed by their free and voluntary commitment.

 

 

 

I'll get to the slippery slope next....

 

I mercy do give hereby notice to said husband that I will not be in the mood on Thursday until further notice. Due to living through the trauma of cleaning your bathroom and washing your undies and socks on Wednesday.

 

We'll discuss the slippery slope on Friday...

[taiko]

Back to the OP. Is a wife obligated to have sex regularly?

 

In America, no.

In Islamic nations, yes.

 

It all depends where you live and who you're married to. It's kind of a waste of time even asking the question. It will start more arguments than it will give any useful feedback.

From the Christian Bible

1 Corinthians 7:5

"Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control"

 

Sounds like an obligation to me. now the Christian or secular state will not get involved, except to end the civil marriage for failure to meet the obligation. I can't prove it but I do believe the concept of spousal rape has only started to be prosecuted in my lifetime.

[NXS]

 

This is a good metaphor, though. Saying the wife has an obligation to have sex with her husband x number of times regardless of what she wants to me is like saying the husband has the obligation to make x amount of dollars, determined by the wife, in order for the wife to have the lifestyle she wants, and what the husband wants in this matter, whether he likes what job or career he has to do to make this amount of money, doesn't matter, and furthermore, if he does not meet the x amount of dollars required by the wife, he is lacking.

 

I think there is something seriously wrong with a person expecting another person to have sex with them against their wishes.

 

I think that's a good analogy, so if a husband "has a headache" or just basically decides the he doesn't want to work anymore or is not getting the loving feelings that he's appreciated then there should be no requirement for him to do so, and his wife will just have to just "pleasure herself" by earning money.

 

Also, we've established that there's no 'needs' in marriage besides the basics of food, water and shelter. So when women talk about "getting their needs met" this is what they are refering to.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I think that's a good analogy, so if a husband "has a headache" or just basically decides the he doesn't want to work anymore or is not getting the loving feelings that he's appreciated then there should be no requirement for him to do so, and his wife will just have to just "pleasure herself" by earning money.

 

Clearly, you and some others live in a world where marriage means a man is "buying" sex from his wife with the money he brings into the marriage.

 

I don't live there.

 

My husband is free to decide he doesn't want to work any more and sit on his ass all day drinking beer and watching ESPN. And I am free to decide that I'm not wanting to be married anymore to a guy who chooses to live his life like that.

 

Same applies if roles are reversed.

 

He worked before I met him, however; he happens to be a grown adult man who believes in being responsible for himself financially. Now that we are married - he still is. It doesn't really have anything to do with our sex life, except insofar as I happen to find his sense of personal responsibility, his work ethic, etc. to be sexy. Not money he brings from it.

 

Sex does not equal working to make a living.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Here's an excerpt from the OP, for clarity:

 

"While a woman isn't obligated to have sex as a function only of being a wife, I think she does have that obligation as a function of loving her husband and recognizing his needs. Many women seem to feel, especially as they get older, or sometimes after having a child, that men can just do for themselves. If women don't feel like having sex, or if they have lost their drive, which is extremely common, too bad for Johnny."

 

It sounds like the OP is agreeing to specifying the 'obligation' to be a function of 'loving her husband and recognizing his needs'.

 

Well, of course we are ONLY supposed to respond to the OP, but there are plenty of words written by the poster that elucidate his true feelings about the situation and specifically about the sexuality of ALL "older" women, which I believe his wife was herself.

 

They include a complete rejection of "duty sex."

[NXS]

Clearly, you and some others live in a world where marriage means a man is "buying" sex from his wife with the money he brings into the marriage.

 

I don't live there.

 

No, I live in a world where (I assumed) marriage entails obligations on both parties. Since most of the women here don't see any obligations in marriage then it cuts both ways. If women don't want sex because they're not turned on or feeling special or whatever then these reasons should also apply to men regarding earning money. Furthermore women's work in the home is irrelevant in this concept because they're not entitled to any returns for what they do either, apparently.

 

My husband is free to decide he doesn't want to work any more and sit on his ass all day drinking beer and watching ESPN. And I am free to decide that I'm not wanting to be married anymore to a guy who chooses to live his life like that.

 

Same applies if roles are reversed.

 

Okay, so then there's no obligations, no deadbeats and no losers anymore, everyone is free to do as they wish regardless of the outcomes.

 

He worked before I met him, however; he happens to be a grown adult man who believes in being responsible for himself financially. Now that we are married - he still is. It doesn't really have anything to do with our sex life, except insofar as I happen to find his sense of personal responsibility, his work ethic, etc. to be sexy. Not money he brings from it.

 

Him working before you married him is irrelevant, apparently, within this concept of "no obligations". He's entirely free to change his mind at any time and without being criticised or made feel obliged in any way to change his decision. Furthermore any attempt to persuade him to go to work should be seen as you making unreasonable demands on him.

 

Sex does not equal working to make a living.

 

It sure isn't, making a living can be anything up to 100 hours per week plus commuting time....Oops sorry I forgot, there's no needs now except the basic needs, so making a living shouldn't take more than 10-15 hours per week to pay for cheap food, water and perhaps a tent in a field.

 

 

 

But getting back to the OP, since no poster here can explain why women just stop having sex for no apparent reason I'm left filling in the blanks myself, so here's where my thinking goes:

 

A) Sex during the earlier stage of the relationship was nothing more than entrapment, she wasn't really into him from the start and just pretended so in order to get the benefits of marriage. She was settling with the ugly beta when she really wanted the alphas but they weren't interested in committing.

 

B) All she really wanted was kids and money, once the procreation was done she got what she wanted. Game over.

 

C) Sex is a commodity to be exchanged for goods and services. Reducing the supply makes him work harder to earn it and keeps him in a constant state of wanting.

 

See.... that's where my mind goes when women refuse to give plausable explanations and deflect onto Menopause, 'demands', lack of feeling special blah blah blah....

[MissBee]

When you're dating you have sex with your partner because you want to. Because you're attracted to them, turned on and that's one way you bond. It's something pleasurable that you enjoy. I don't see why when you're married, sex should move from wanting to/enjoying it to a married obligation.

 

Sex is not obligatory when dating, neither should it be when married. When married, sex should still be something you do because you want to, because you're turned on, it's pleasurable and it's a way to connect. The issue is setting the right environment in your marriage where both you and your partner want to have sex in a natural way, and natural to me is not the obligatory kind of sex.

[Got it]

Because one woman cannot answer for all women.

 

Why do some woman AND MEN stop having sex? Off the top of my head:

 

1. No longer attracted to their partner

2. No longer interested in/able to have sex (medically reason)

3. No longer interested in/ able to have sex (other than medical reason)

4. Not a priority

5. Their desire for X not being met

6. Abusive relationship

7. Never interested in sex

8. Not interested in sex with their partner (other than and/or attraction issue)

9. Geographical reasons

10. Revenge or Retribution

11. Performance issues, concerns, or handicaps

 

 

But it is not just women whom stop having sex. There are many men with low sex drives as well. Women may not complain about it as much but it is there.

 

There are infinite reasons why people stop having sex. Who cares? What is important is what is done after that? How does the couple reconcile the issue and find a happy medium/compromise or dissolve things.

[carhill]

A past OP just stopped by and posted in a thread relevant to this topic and gave us a two-year update on his sexless marriage.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/234105-yet-another-sexless-marriage-rant-4.html

 

I posted it up because most of the famous LS men in sexless marriages posted in it.

[taiko]

When you're dating you have sex with your partner because you want to. Because you're attracted to them, turned on and that's one way you bond. It's something pleasurable that you enjoy. I don't see why when you're married, sex should move from wanting to/enjoying it to a married obligation.

.

It becomes an obligation in some cultures because an obligation is also taken to forsake opportunities with others you may be attracted to and find pleasure in rubbing your body against. Thus a trade off monogamy for a steady supply.

[Mme. Chaucer]

No, I live in a world where (I assumed) marriage entails obligations on both parties. Since most of the women here don't see any obligations in marriage then it cuts both ways. If women don't want sex because they're not turned on or feeling special or whatever then these reasons should also apply to men regarding earning money.

 

Why does a man's job equate to a woman having sex? Among all my friendships, the wife works as much as the husband does outside of the home.

 

I also, being middle aged, know quite a few couples where the sex problem is the man's ED and his pride (or whatever) standing in the way of him getting whatever medical help he could use for that.

 

Should the wife then quit her job?

 

Okay, so then there's no obligations, no deadbeats and no losers anymore, everyone is free to do as they wish regardless of the outcomes.

 

Well, not exactly "regardless of outcomes," because if you care about your partner and your marriage you will be conscious of doing your part for its continued health and happiness.

 

 

Him working before you married him is irrelevant, apparently, within this concept of "no obligations". He's entirely free to change his mind at any time and without being criticised or made feel obliged in any way to change his decision. Furthermore any attempt to persuade him to go to work should be seen as you making unreasonable demands on him.

 

I'm not into trying to enforce obligations. If he is failing me or our marriage, we will talk about it. If I can't stand his choice, which he is free to make - I am free to leave. Vice versa as well, of course.

 

 

 

A) Sex during the earlier stage of the relationship was nothing more than entrapment, she wasn't really into him from the start and just pretended so in order to get the benefits of marriage. She was settling with the ugly beta when she really wanted the alphas but they weren't interested in committing.

 

Wow. I'm really sorry to hear that your experiences with relationships have been so terrible and probably emasculating.

 

I have never in my life used sex for entrapment. I love to have sex. And I am quite sure that in both of my marriages, my husbands got at least as many / much benefits as I did / do. They'd tell you so themselves.

 

See.... that's where my mind goes when women refuse to give plausable explanations and deflect onto Menopause, 'demands', lack of feeling special blah blah blah....

 

I think there were a lot of plausible reasons given as to why this OP's wife probably stopped wanting to have sex with him, the number one reason being that it must have been a wretched and soul-destroying experience.

 

Anyway, they are now divorced - he is completely satisfied with his commercial arrangements, and I bet she has moved on to much greener pastures herself.

 

Win.

[anne1707]

If women don't want sex because they're not turned on or feeling special or whatever then these reasons should also apply to men regarding earning money.

 

What happens then when the woman earns more than the man? In that case, what is he obligated to do if she is going out earning the money?

 

 

()

[NXS]

Why does a man's job equate to a woman having sex? Among all my friendships, the wife works as much as the husband does outside of the home.

 

I also, being middle aged, know quite a few couples where the sex problem is the man's ED and his pride (or whatever) standing in the way of him getting whatever medical help he could use for that.

 

Should the wife then quit her job?

 

 

 

Well, not exactly "regardless of outcomes," because if you care about your partner and your marriage you will be conscious of doing your part for its continued health and happiness.

 

 

 

 

I'm not into trying to enforce obligations. If he is failing me or our marriage, we will talk about it. If I can't stand his choice, which he is free to make - I am free to leave. Vice versa as well, of course.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow. I'm really sorry to hear that your experiences with relationships have been so terrible and probably emasculating.

 

I have never in my life used sex for entrapment. I love to have sex. And I am quite sure that in both of my marriages, my husbands got at least as many / much benefits as I did / do. They'd tell you so themselves.

 

 

 

I think there were a lot of plausible reasons given as to why this OP's wife probably stopped wanting to have sex with him, the number one reason being that it must have been a wretched and soul-destroying experience.

 

Anyway, they are now divorced - he is completely satisfied with his commercial arrangements, and I bet she has moved on to much greener pastures herself.

 

Win.

 

Well thanks for the little excursion into your marriage and friends but this is a general thread about sexual 'obligations' in marriage, or it seems, the lack therof.

 

I think it's telling that the female posters here are all shocked that sex could be seen as an obligation or God forbid a 'need', and seem to attack any poster who sees it that way. Yet there are countless posts from females on LS about "getting their needs met". I don't recall any of these posters being attacked in a similar way.

 

Oh and it's funny how these husbands are crap at sex and it's such a horrible experience post wedding, you'd think they'd be crap from the start if that was the case.

[NXS]

What happens then when the woman earns more than the man? In that case, what is he obligated to do if she is going out earning the money?

 

 

()

 

There's no obligations in marriage, apparently.

[anne1707]

There's no obligations in marriage, apparently.

 

According to your posts there is. So all I asked is what is the man obliged to do when the woman earns more than the husband. Simple question.

 

Unless ofcourse you don't like the pressure being put on men.

[NXS]

According to your posts there is. So all I asked is what is the man obliged to do when the woman earns more than the husband. Simple question.

 

Unless ofcourse you don't like the pressure being put on men.

 

Well if she's working longer hours then he would be obliged to do the bulk of the housework and taking care of the kids. If they both work equal hours then there's no obligation beyond putting in equal effort.

 

As for sex/emotions, she would be obliged to meet his needs and he her needs as far as possible. It's very simple. In my world marriage is full of obligations, not much different than having to go to work to keep my job.

 

But I'm completely wrong, there are no obligations in marriage and the posters here have been very clear about this. Similarly sex is not a need because you won't die without it.

[anne1707]

The point about marriage is that it is a partnership with both husband and wife as equals. They may each have their own individual strengths and weaknesses so contribute to the wellbeing of the marriage in different ways but all in all it should again be on an equal basis.

 

I do not like words such as obligation or duty being used because that implies lack of choice/willingness/desire to do something. Just as I would not have sex with my H because I felt obligated to, I would not want him to have sex because he felt obliged to. We should both want it and each other along with wanting to make each other happy, do things for each other, show love and consideration for each other etc - plus do all these things without expecting anything in return. It should all be given freely.

 

If sex (as the subject of this thread) is no longer wanted by one partner then if, as I have posted earlier that is something which is within the control of the person who is no longer interested and they are not willing to work towards a solution, then their spouse may (understandably IMO) end the marriage.