Is a wife obligated to have sex regularly?

[123321]

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I don't live in the USA, but apparently the fiscal disadvantages of divorce are biased in quite an egalitarian manner against the person who earns more, regardless of gender? Plenty of stories in the news about rich female celebrities paying spousal support.

 

I do think you guys have a pretty borked law that allows this to happen, but I don't think it's biased against men, just against those with successful careers.

 

Men routinely take more risk and earn bigger rewards in employment, thus it's men who get kicked in the fiscal balls. I say that if the couple is decoupling that should go for everything. I don't see ex-wives being required to cook 4 dinners a night and keep the ex-family in clean linens.

[Els]

I think the rationale for alimony is that the person earning less is assumed to have sacrificed his/her career advancement in order to care for the house and children. If a SAHP and his/her breadwinning partner divorce, the SAHP will not have the skills/experience to get a job anywhere close to that which his/her partner has after the divorce, assuming that both have equal experience/qualifications before the childbirth. Obviously this assumption is often erroneous because the person working less does not always do the majority of childcare/housework, and IMO the USA takes it a step too far by requiring payment of up to half of the paycheck (if I recall correctly).

 

As for why men often find themselves at the breadwinning end, IMO that is perpetuated as much by men themselves as by women. You would be surprised how many men prefer to leave the bulk of childcare and housework to their partners and shoulder the financial burden instead, and how men themselves oftentimes shame other men who are SAHPs.

[KathyM]

Precisely. How can you woman say on the the one hand that a man has an obligation to be faithful, but on the other hand he has to go without a fundamental need being met. I put the wife who ignores her husband's sexual needs up with the family man who gambles away his whole salary. neither is ding his/her duty to the uni and neither is fit to be married. I've gota friend in this exact situation. Ideally he'd divorce but in the real world where a man loses what he's earned, can't see his children etc. thats not practical. He copes by setting aside a few hundred each week and treating himself to an escort. Maybe other guys in the position should do the same?

No, they should work on fixing their marriage, and not being unfaithful and destroying it. Once the wife finds out about her husband's escapades with prostitutes, he'll be losing custody of the kids and half of his assets, as well as his reputation. If a man finds that his wife is no longer interested in sex, then find out the reason for it. Maybe he behaves like such a jerk to her during the day, that he has killed whatever romantic feelings she has for him. Maybe his lovemaking is so routine and boring, that she feels she'd be more entertained watching T.V. at night. Or maybe she just feels too tired after working all day, and then comes home and has to work all night to keep the household running and the kids' lives in order without any help from her husband. I do think it is the wife's obligation to keep her husband sexually satisfied, and that that is an important part of the marital contract, but when that aspect of the marriage is waning, then fix it. Go to a marriage counselor, have a frank discussion with your wife that you need to have an active sexual relationship with her and that you can't go without sex. Deciding you are just going to go behind her back and be unfaithful is the coward's way out, and does nothing to improve the marriage, but will only harm it.

[carhill]

OP, if you're still reading, I've got a question. Did you note any pattern where your ex-wife appeared to become more 'sexual' if/when she wanted something, generally something which required your cooperation and/or agreement? I call this 'situational sexuality', in the sense that a sense of situational obligation can arise from such events, especially in contrast to the customary desert of the real.

 

I didn't note that in my M but it has been a feature I've noted in some others (by admission) and with MW's (in their actions with me).

[CALOVELY]

OP, your disgust and hatred comes through loud and clear. You use that to attempt to speak for women and diminish those of us who speak up. You insult and hurl barbs at any vagina wielder who dares to disagree with you. You don't speak for me, never will and you don't have a clue.

If you think women of a certain age lose their sex drive, then explain why Fifty Shades of Grey is the hottest selling book in the Western world. Explain why Magic Mike has made $108mm in 3 weeks. Middle aged women.

If your demeanor here is any example of how you act at home, I understand fully why your wife doesn't want you and the only women who do are paid. Perhaps a change in attitude could change things around for you.

[CALOVELY]

Gotta love a trollish post like this to bring out all the sexists. Yup, no woman works and the husband pays the bills. Also, women hate sex and only use it to get what they want. I just love the examples. "What if a husband decided not to pay the mortgage" if the wife doesn't give it up. In other words, women are just prostitutes. If I had to hazard a guess, it's disgusting attitudes that I have read here that could be a clue as to why many aren't getting laid. Amazing and yet to quote the OP "so typical".

[CALOVELY]

I can't get past these words. My marriage is mostly good. My husband and I have had our ups and downs (4 kids is a lot of stress!). Never, Never, have I thought of cleaning up after myself as a gift I give to someone when they meet my "needs". Adults clean up after themselves. Good parents teach their children to clean up after themselves. An attitude I see in certain men, many of them from older generations, is that once they're married, their new wife is now to be their domestic servent. I promise you, once you treat your partner like they are your cleaning service, the love they have for you will die bit by bit. How can you feel any kind of warmth, how can you feel any kind of comradery with someone who treats you as an object that is there to serve them. The whole thing is just sad.

 

I have two sons myself and both of them managed this "task" from the time they were 6. I cannot even imagine if my husband mentioned "Hey, I put the seat down and wiped up after myself" as if that is some loving and great accomplishment. That would be the same as if I said "Hey, I didn't leave my tampon floating in the toilet" or any other evidence to gross you out.

In other news, I bathe, hang up the towel and pick up after myself. I didn't realize medals were given out for that, or oral sex.

[KR10N]

I can't believe I actually read this garbage.

[CALOVELY]

Since many of the women posting here--reflecting perhaps a female societal consensus--seem to be having a lot of difficulty with the notion that regular marital sex is an "obligation" of marriage, let's try to make it a little easier for comprehension's sake.

 

Forget about "sex."

 

Let's just call it, "affection." Not even taking clothes off. Just kisses, hugs, talking warming to one's husband--affection/love.

 

Will you women at least admit affection is a marital obligation?

 

(I already suspect the answer is "No." Because the denial of marital sex obviously springs from a basic denial of affection.)

 

 

 

Would you grant the husband in your scenario the right to have sex outside of the marriage, then, so as to not "devalue" his spouse by seeking or expecting sex from his spouse?

 

You can't have it both ways, darling.

 

Surely you're not trying to say that a husband who marries a woman who decides that there will be no sex in the marriage, is therefore, subject to enforced celibacy for the duration of the marriage? That's both nonsensical and sadistic, so you can't possibly have meant that.

 

You didn't, did you?

 

All snark aside, so many here seem to think that women are just these withholding jerks who deliberately refuse their husbands. Resentment is a huge factor in many marriages.

I can only speak from my own experience but it has been the loneliest existence. He never wants to talk and even went so far as to say "Hey, can we talk during commericals?". He seems to care more about his career, his friends and his hobbies. I am little more than business partner, mother to his children and caretaker when he is sick but come 11:00 pm, he plays grab ass and wants sex. I couldn't want it less but my sex drive is sky high.

Should he have the right to cheat? You tell me. I know I should but I don't.

I don't know any woman who just stopped wanting sex (barring medical issues) but I know plenty like me who chip by chip stopped respecting their husbands and thus stopped wanting to have sex with them. It is a slow process but once it happens, it is a death spiral for the relationship and it is so sad.

[KR10N]

All this talk about "obligation, blah blah, marriage, blahh blah" certainly makes one decide to never marry. What is sex w/ out love? Just sex. BooooooooooorrrrrrrrING!

[dreamingoftigers]

Jeez,

 

If I heard all of this "your feelings don't matter, you are obligated" crap, I think I would throw in the towel on sex too.

 

And I have a ridiculously high libido.

 

As for makeup sex: (via my husband's domestic violence group) it is shameful for women 90% of the time and often women do it to appease their husbands.

 

Apparently there was a very nice presentation on it at group and one woman mentioned doing it and then crying herself to sleep afterward on a regular basis.

 

I have had a similar experience, just having overwhelming shame after having sex post-fight. Lying there feeling "I can't believe I just did that with someone that treats me like such ****."

 

No, there isn't an ongoing obligation for a wife being disconnected from her husband to force herself to open up her legs for him if he isn't interested in her life and feelings.

 

You trade the housework for the bills (and that's only a traditional arrangement which has been going south for years).

 

You trade emotional connection and sexuality.

 

I hate the sexually challenging marriage I am in. But truly I cam say that I have gone to the Moon and back to save it.

 

Cheating or coercing my partner to engage in sex are both inappropriate, and damaging.

 

If a husband is truly not where he wants to be he needs to fix it and then leave if it cannot be fixed.

[CALOVELY]

They lose their sex drives FOR THEIR HUSBANDS. That's the darn point. Most of them still have a libido IF THEY DECIDE THEY DO. Like carhill said, it's "situational sexuality." Most of these angry women (and BOY do you sound angry!) have decided they've gotten what they wanted financially from the marriage, the husband is "trapped," and they can re-direct their sexuality to silly books, movies, and other men.

 

No, OP's point was that women just suddenly lose their sex drives due to biology or evil calculation. My point was that (barring medical issues), no woman suddenly loses her sex drive. It is a slow process of resentment and a relationship breakdown with their spouse.

[CALOVELY]

When the majority of women posting in the thread state the case that marital sex is not obligatory, and when the resentment towards the husbands is so freely and openly expressed, then why isn't "withholding jerk" a perfectly fitting description?

 

 

 

 

But, this is your husband's fault, correct?

 

 

 

 

What do you want to talk about with him? Is it something that might be of interest to him? And what does his reasonble request that you not interrupt his television watching have to do with sex after the television is shut off?

 

 

 

 

....when all his attention and free time should be focused on....let me guess...YOU? Career, friends and hobbies....seems reasonable to me.

 

What are you doing to make yourself more "interesting" to him then career, friends, and hobbies? Surely carrying around an obvious, huge load of resentment at your husband isn't the best approach, is it?

 

 

 

 

 

Are you saying he shouldn't wait until 11:00 p.m. to ask you for sex? What are you saying, exactly? Do YOU ever initiate sex? Why not? Why don't YOU want sex at 11:00 p.m.?

 

What exactly did you think "marriage" would be? For most people it's job/children/daily maintenance and whatever else besides you can squeeze in. I.e. watch some t.v. and then hit the sack.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly. You CHOOSE not to want sex with your husband despite having a "sky high" drive. Meaning you are deliberately withholding it from him, to "punish" him, because....he's not doing what you want him to do. He'd rather watch t.v. then listen to you chatter. You're angry because he's not focusing enough attention on you. So--no sex for hubbie.

 

 

 

 

 

If you have the right to withhold sex the question is, why do you expect him to do without?

 

 

 

 

A critical admission here, you are already thinking of cheating, you are blame-shifting, your complaints are utterly trivial, yet you have huge resentment, withhold sex, fantasize about cheating.

 

That's it in a nutshell folks. What exactly did this poster's husband do that was so "wrong" that his wife should resent/withold sex/contemplate cheating on him? Nothing that I can see, other than fail to give her all the attention she thinks she wants.

 

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is you have the process in reverse. You sound pretty much like a woman who is already in an Emotional Affair or has your eye on someone, at least in fantasy. You are building that up in your mind and rewriting your marriage to justify yourself. The denial of sex goes part and parcel with that. You're right, there are plenty of women like you, they're called walkaway wives. The lack of respect for your husband is part of that syndrome too.

 

Listen, you described a pretty typical married life. You're acting like you expected rainbows and unicorns. Another wife who has staked her marital aspirations on watching too many Disney movies as a child.

 

Your poor sex-deprived husband has a resentful wife who is constantly thinking of cheating on him, who has no respect for him. When he comes home after a hard day's work he can't get any peace or relaxation. He can't even watch t.v. without his wife constantly demanding his attention like a small selfish child. When he tries to show you affection at bed time you give him the cold shoulder. He is some kind of evil villain in your mind. In reality, he is just an average typical Joe Schmoe. Working, doing hobbies, hanging with his buddies, watching t.v., wanting to have sex with his wife.

 

I guess that's not good enough for you and many other women, you think you're "entitled" to something "more." Maybe so. Maybe you think you can do better. Yeah that's right. You can do better. Sure you can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And undoubtedly you haven't treated him with a shred of decency or honesty and actually told him how you feel about your life, or him.

 

You definitely haven't told him you're thinking of cheating on him and lack any respect for him.

 

Maybe if YOU took responsibility for being honest with him--and yourself--you would stop looking outside the marriage and try to see if you could fix what's wrong.

 

Of course it sounds like "what's wrong" has nothing to do with him, and everything to do with you.

 

Wow. Just wow. The end.

[KR10N]

@DuckSoup, marriage is a 2-way street. Not a 1-way and a bike lane. It's takes both people to make the relationship work. You can't honestly believe that every woman in a sexless marriage is purposely withholding from her husband?

[CALOVELY]

My take on Robert Z's definition of "evil calculation" is that your description of your own attitude and actions in your marriage fits within Robert Z's definition of "evil calculation."

 

The fact that you are thinking about cheating on your husband, most likely have made some steps towards it, perhaps have your eye on an affair partner, and obviously have never been truthful with your husband about your feelings.

 

I would definitely think having no respect for one's spouse, contemplating cheating on them, and withholding that from them, would count as "evil cacluation."

 

Do you have a reading comprehension problem or are you just mentally challenged? Re-read what I wrote (VERY SLOWLY) and tell me where in there I said I was planning on cheating, setting it up or busy finding an affair partner?

Let me guess, a bunch of other websites tossed you off and you came here to spew your crap. You sir/boy/troll/single celled life form are off the rails and with that I say goodbye.

[dreamingoftigers]

No one said your feelings don't matter, so if you heard that, it was the little voices talking inside your head, not because anyone actually said that to you.

 

No the wife may not be "obligated" to have sex, but if she feels that way, she can't impose monogamy as an "obligation" upon her husband, because most assuredly, he never agreed to lead a sexless life.

 

Monogamy means sex with only one other person. It doesn't mean sex with zero other people. If the wife absents herself from the sexual relationship, then she's not a proponent of monogamy, she's a proponent of celibacy. Two very different things.

 

Exactly the point. Most of the resentful wives who withhold sex don't even have a low libido as a justification for it. They resent their husband for some real or imagined slight, and they choose to punish their husband by withholding sex. It's "situational asexuality."

 

Not at all, again, these are women who consciously choose to have sex to manipulate their partners. It's situational sexuality. Yet they don't want to take responsibility for the fact that they are in control of when they withhold sex and when they participate in it. It's always "blame the husband."

 

That's her own fault. She needs to take responsibility for her own actions rather than blame her husband for it. No, she's not "obligated" to have sex with him, but then, she shouldn't expect him to remain celibate, either.

 

That's because you refused to take responsibility for your choices. You want to maintain the "powerless" persona so as to not take responsibility for your actions. Thus the crying and self-pity. You want to blame your situation on your spouse, rather than on your own choices. You want to blame your feelings on your spouse, rather than on your own baggage.

 

You can't seriously on the one hand take the position that 1) marital sex is not "obligatory" then 2) if you do have it, despite that it's non-

obligatory, you still pretend like it wasn't your conscious choice, and cry with self pity about it.

 

O.K. so stop pretending you're not fully responsible for having sex, when you do choose to have it, and pretending to be powerless, whining in a pool of self-pity. You're not powerless, you chose to have sex to get something you wanted in return, accept that and be honest about it.

 

Also be honest with him and simply tell him you have a quid pro quo for sex, that he has to be "interested in your life and feelings"--whatever the heck that is supposed to mean. That's so arbitrary it's not funny. It allows you to the sole judge of whether he is "interested" enough to warrant you having sex with him.

 

Sorry, but that's just so manipulative all the way around. You can't even define how "interested" he needs to be in order to warrant the "reward" of sex. But it's funny how this is the same thing the other poster insisted was the quid pro quo--her husband's "attention." Me, me, me.

 

Neither has anything to do with sex, except perhaps in someone's head.

 

Sexuality IS an emotional connection. By denying both of yourselves sex, you deny the emotional connection. What an irony. Women who think sex has nothing to do with love are severely damaged people. But that baggage probably predated the marriage itself. It's something that was learned as a child.

 

"Hate" being the same in context as "resent." The obvious answer is what all the sex-denier apologists have been saying--you don't like it, leave. The common theme is women who don't believe that sex is not only obligatory, it is necessary for a healthy, happy marriage. And none of these women seem to have happy marriages, but they haven't made the connection why they're not happy. It's always the man's fault.

 

But enforced celibacy is O.K. How is enforced celibacy not damaging?

 

Your husband isn't the one posting here and complaining about the marriage. You are. So take your own advice, maybe.

 

I would be most happy to respond to all of the above, and I might later. I'm off to take my kid out to the park.

 

However, I am coming from the perspective of being DENIED sex on a regular basis in my relationship.

 

My husband is the sexual denier, not me. And I still agree that cheating is not appropriate and only serves to be severely damaging.

 

Is enforced celibacy damaging? You bet. But I've been cheated on too, and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy; even if that worst enemy is occasionally my spouse.

[CALOVELY]

My take on Robert Z's definition of "evil calculation" is that your description of your own attitude and actions in your marriage fits within Robert Z's definition of "evil calculation."

 

The fact that you are thinking about cheating on your husband, most likely have made some steps towards it, perhaps have your eye on an affair partner, and obviously have never been truthful with your husband about your feelings.

 

I would definitely think having no respect for one's spouse, contemplating cheating on them, and withholding that from them, would count as "evil cacluation."

 

Do you have a reading comprehension problem or are you just mentally challenged? Re-read what I wrote (VERY SLOWLY) and tell me where in there I said I was planning on cheating, setting it up or busy finding an affair partner?

Let me guess, a bunch of other websites tossed you off and you came here to spew your crap. You sir/boy/troll/single celled life form are off the rails and with that I say goodbye.

[KathyM]

Nope, sorry, this is the having it both ways attitude that sex-denying wives often express: They can deny marital sex to their husbands, yet also deny him the right to seek it elsewhere.

 

I don't believe wives should withhold sex from their husbands, buts if the marital relationship is such that this is what is happening, then that is a couple issue that needs to be worked out as a couple. Going elsewhere for it behind your wife's back is not the answer if you want to keep your marriage intact, or if you have any sense of right and wrong. Cheating should never be an option or an answer to problems in a marriage. I think both a husband and wife have an obligation to fix what is wrong in their marriage that led to this cut off from sex.

 

If the wife decides she is not interested in sex any longer, then why is it the husband's "obliation" (that word again) to fix the marriage, and not the wife's to "fix" whatever is inside her causing her low libido? Be it psychological or physical (i.e. menopause)?

 

It's both the husband's and the wife's obligation to fix the marriage.

 

I hate to break it to you, but if we accept the proposition that a woman is entitled to deny sex to her husband just because she "doesn't feel like it", then the husband is entitled not to do anything to "fix" the marriage. It's the wife's obligation to figure out why she no longer desires sex, and moreover, why is she intent on putting her own lack of desire over her husband's need for sex. After all, a mere lack of desire doesn't prevent her from having sex. And it doesn't even prevent her from enjoying sex, once she actually has it.

 

I don't believe a woman should deny sex to her husband, but I do believe that there is usually a reason for it, and it more often stems from a disconnection between the husband and wife that both can take responsibility for. They both need to consider this a couple problem and they both have the responsibility to work it out with each other and not go elsewhere for it.

 

 

 

 

 

Why? In a no fault state, adultery isn't supposed to be an issue w/r/t child custody. Just like the wife who doesn't want sex with her husband can go out and commit adultery on a girls night out, and it's not supposed to have an impact on custody at all.

 

If you commit adultery, that will often lead to the end of the marriage, in which case, you will be losing at least half of your assets, if not more. As far as child custody, when infidelity causes divorce, you will be losing at least half of your child custody, since your wife will be separately having custody on her turn. If a man frequents prostitutes, it's entirely possible that the judge will consider such a man to have questionable judgment and not a suitable parent to share half custody of the kids. Maybe he'll get visitation, but at the very least, he will lose half of his time with his kids.

 

For that matter, what makes you think he would "lose his reputation"? Any normal person would understand why a man whose wife refuses to have sex with him might seek out pros for relief. If the true facts came out--the wife denies him sex over a prolonged period--he would get only sympathy.

 

When word gets around that he visits prostitutes, his name will be mud, with his children, with his relatives, with his friends, and in the community. Just look at Tiger Woods when his escapades were discovered. After that scandal broke, he was voted the least liked celebrity in all of sports, even less liked that Michael Vick. He lost most, if not all, of his endorsements.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but why is it the husband's obligation to "find out the reason for it"? "The reason for it" has been stated over and over and over again in these threads--these wives truly and sincerely believe that they have absolutely no obligation to have a sexual relationship with their husbands. THAT's the reason. Because "you can't make me" do it. The wife simply has to decide arbitrarily that sex will no longer be a part of the marriage, and that is reason enough.

 

You don't seem to realize that this is a couple problem, not an individual problem. It affects both partners, and they both have to find a solution that is mutually acceptable to them. Usually, when a wife no longer wants sex, it is because of a breakdown in the couple relationship, and it needs to be addressed as a couple problem, not a wife problem.

 

 

 

 

 

Wrong again. No one advocating the wife's right to deny sex has set particular conditions on it, so it's wrong for you to infer or imply that the husband's conduct has any bearing on the wife's low libido.

 

It often does have an effect on a wife's libido. From what I have read, and from situations I have learned about in real life from people that I know, wives become disinterested in sex because they don't feel like putting out for a guy who treats them like crap all day, who is always yelling or in a bad mood, or who treats them badly in general. Or husbands who ignore their wives, except at bedtime. You men would be wise to realize what effect your behavior has on your wife's libido. I'm not saying that is always the case--sometimes it is just the wife that loses interest in sex, but more often than not, it is because of a breakdown in the relationship in other ways that carry over to the bedroom.

 

The sex isn't happening simply because the wife has decided it will not. Period. No reason needed. Because it's not her "obligation," you see, to have sex with her husband. She doesn't need a reason to NOT have it.

 

And by the way sweetie just because your spouse acts like a jerk during the day isn't a reason to not have sex later on. It's an excuse, not a reason. People who love each other and are sexually attracted to each other, if they have a fight, will have "make up sex." Women who refuse sex always have another excuse. "I'm tired, I have a headache, I feel fat, I have to get up early tomorrow, you were mean to me, blah blah blah...."

 

It's pretty hard to feel loving towards a man who has treated you like crap all day, or who has ignored you. Women can't normally turn their feelings on and off like a light switch. Men who want a satisfying sex life with their wife would be wise to realize just how much their prior behavior affects their wife's romantic mood. It's pretty hard to feel amorous, loving and sexually interested in a man who, 1/2 hour before, was yelling at you, or telling you to shut up so he can hear his T.V. program. Believe it or not, men need to invest in their relationship. They need to nurture it. It would be the same if you were dating the woman. Would you expect a girl to want to continue to see you, let alone be intimate with you, if you continually treated her like crap every time you got together, or almost every time? You guys don't realize how much your behavior affects your wife's sexual interest in you.

 

 

 

 

LOL so it's ALWAYS going to be the husband's fault, isn't that right? If what you're saying is true--the husband's technique is lacking--she wouldn't just cut off sex. She would express what she wants in bed. She would want to "practice practice practice."

 

It's a couple problem, not a wife problem, not a husband problem--a couple problem, and needs to be treated as such. Many men are selfish lovers, and only care about getting their own needs met in bed. Many women don't make much of an effort in bed either, so is it any wonder why other activities, such as T.V., would seem more appealing? This is a couple problem, and the couple needs to work together on bringing back the enjoyment to their sex life together.

 

 

 

 

 

 

More excuses. So predictable. The attitude you are expressing fits perfectly in line with the female thought process that sex is something not to be enjoyed in its own right, but to be withheld or denied from her husband to punish him if SHE thinks he hasn't done enough chores around the house.

 

You don't seem to have a basic understanding of women. To women, sex is not just a physical act. It is an act of love, of caring, and emotional intimacy as well as physical intimacy, which is why women may find it difficult to do if their husband has cut himself off from emotional intimacy with his wife.

 

If she thinks he's not doing enough around the house, then she can tell him to do more around the house.

 

True.

 

But why would any sane person deprive their spouse and THEMSELVES of sex just because chores weren't done? Only in the female mind are the two issues linked in this manner.

 

If only the wife is doing the bulk of the chores at night, she's not going to have energy to bring to the bedroom. Sex takes energy. You would have better luck of getting your wife in the mood for sex and having energy for sex if you would lighten her load of responsibilities at night, or mutually agree to forego some chores that could be put off.

 

"You didn't wash the dishes--therefore, I will deprive us BOTH of sex tonight!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If it's an obligation then everything else you just said doesn't provide any justification for denying sex. And let's remember we are not talking about taking a raincheck every once in a while. We are talking about women who flat out don't have sex with their husbands, or only a few times a year.

 

I don't believe women should be withholding sex from their husbands. But I do believe husbands have an obligation to meet their wive's needs as well, such as for emotional intimacy, and when they shut off that emotionally intimacy with their wives, physical intimacy often gets shut off as well.

 

 

 

 

 

An MC is not required or needed to have this conversation. Only a brain-dead individual, or a very sadistic one, would operate under the assumption that sex is not a necessary part of married life.

 

True, people should have this conversation with their spouse if there is a problem. Find out why their spouse is no longer interested, and express your need to have that in your marriage. If these issues cannot be worked out between husband and wife, then seek counseling for outside help with this. Do not just turn your back on the marriage and seek physical release elsewhere. That will only drive you further apart, and threaten your marriage.

 

 

 

 

 

If she doesn't want to be married to a "coward," if that bothers her so much, she can just decide to have sex with him, can't she?

 

Infidelity is never a good solution to marital problems or sexual incompatibility. It will only further damage your relationship, prevent issues from being worked out in your marriage, and ultimately lead to its demise.

[KungFuJoe]

I think this is just one of those things where you have to be there to understand.

 

I was in a 4 year relationship where we went from sex 3 times a day to me having to beg for it. And the problem wasn't the sex. We just stopped really loving each other, I stopped respecting her as a person (she was not a trustworthy person) and we just fell apart. And we were both young (mid 20s) no kids, all the time in the world to spend together, but I would frequently want to hang out with friends and some of the most fun I was having was WITHOUT my gf at the time. I wanted to go out to clubs and party and get drunk and she just wanted to stay home or go to karaoke bars with her friends. We just weren't compatible.

 

Now I'm in a 12 year relationship (10 years married), with 3 kids who we are with almost 24/7 since we both work from home, mortgage and bills to pay, etc. etc.. And even though we have less spare time than before, we spend MORE quality time together than either of us has ever had in any previous relationship. We stay at home and watch movies together and just cuddle. We smoke out and talk for hours at night (about anything and everything). We go out to clubs or Vegas and we drink and dance and get crazy. We hang out with friends (we don't have "our own" friends...we are all friends together). We have great memories and we keep making new great memories. We get along in every way imaginable. We hardly ever fight, we have the same taste in people and what we consider fun. We have the same values and morals. We both have the same desires. And we are both ridiculously attracted to each other physically. The list goes on and on. We are just meant for each other. And because of this, all those things we want and need in a relationship, including great sex, just comes along with it.

 

And there WAS a time, after our last child was born, when some of the sex and excitement started to decline a bit and I felt she wasn't as into sex as she used to be. I did get frustrated. And she did feel bad for not wanting it but she thought it was just hormones or the birth. I could have accepted it and left it like that but we sat down and really talked about it and we were both honest with each other (which was never a problem) and about what we wanted. And some changes were made combined with some good timing and now our sex life is better then ever...and it was pretty amazing before so that's saying a lot.

 

But, it was never about the sex. Our foundation was strong and the love we had for each other never faded, in the slightest...it just only grew stronger over the years. And that's why we continue to make it and why neither of us feels like we are missing out or lacking anything.

 

And that's why I will always say...a relationship that works is the easiest thing in the world. Because it just works. If you find that you have to work hard for your relationship...you're doing something wrong or you just aren't meant to be.

[dreamingoftigers]

When you feel close to your spouse and want to be with them,

 

When they treat you like you MATTER: you TEND to WANT to have sex with them.

 

I've noticed a funny dichotomy about relationships and have had it happen to me personally:

 

If you rant up and down about the curtains not being white enough, your spouse is likely to try a few times to make them whiter. If it's still not "good enough" AND there is no appreciation for the effort, your spouse is more likely to give up completely or maybe even switch the curtains out or get rid of them altogether.

 

If the focus was on something else, or the efforts about the curtains were appreciated, you'd be more likely to get white curtains in exchange for gratitude.

 

BUT if you decide to get white curtains from another home; you might end up having to move in there without being able to afford a home of your own.

[frozensprouts]

a couple of questions:

 

if sex is seen as an obligation ( or whatever other word you'd like to use), where does this obligation end?

 

example:

( from a friend of mine...i thought it was interesting because it was actually a guy who told me this...mind you, he'd had a bit to drink first when he was over visiting us, and he started talking about it)

 

they met feel in love, etc. As it was his second marriage, he made sure they talked about all the major issues before hand ( sex was definitely one of them) and he felt everything was good. They got along great for a number of years, adopted a child, and were happy. Then she began to get interested in a particular sex act which he had zero interest in, and actually found it rather disgusting. She said she was fine with that, and so things went on, They still had sex as they always had, but she became less and less satisfied, and ended up cheating on him because "he'd do it when you wouldn't"...( don't know what the particular sex act was...he never said,and I didn't ask)

 

to use this example: is a spouse obligated to perform sex acts they really despise ( beyond the "normal, day to day minds of things"? Should a spouse feel obligated to fill every sexual desire of their spouse, even if what their spouse wants is a total turnoff for them? If the answer is "yes", then where does this end? Is asking your spouse to do something you know they can't stand a loving act towards them?

 

( please note, I am not referring to the ( for lack of a better term) "usual" sex acts...more the fetish type things)

[carhill]

If the spouse had an aversion to a particular sex act that the other spouse developed a fetish for long after the marital agreement was struck, it would be incumbent upon that spouse to voice their aversion and then for both spouses to proactively seek compromise, rewrite the marital agreement and/or declare their differences to be irreconcilable and end their association. The spouse who 'changed', meaning the one who developed, in this case, the new sexual fetish, has first and present responsibility to seek out venue and bring their perspective to the floor.

 

If I were faced with that scenario as the spouse who did not change, I would explore my own impetuses for finding the act distasteful and, if I found the dynamic to negatively impact the M outside of the bedroom and felt we could resolve the issue independently, suggest seeking professional help to clarify and resolve it. In the interim, I would continue to express my love and desire for my spouse by the customary sexual and non-sexual avenues.

[frozensprouts]

I've been pushing this point in various threads and thought it deserved one of its own. Life partner and significant other may apply here as well in place of "wife". I guess the argument could be applied to any monogamous relationship.

 

It is my position that men have needs and masturbation isn't good enough. While a woman isn't obligated to have sex as a function only of being a wife, I think she does have that obligation as a function of loving her husband and recognizing his needs. Many women seem to feel, especially as they get older, or sometimes after having a child, that men can just do for themselves. If women don't feel like having sex, or if they have lost their drive, which is extremely common, too bad for Johnny.

 

To me, this is like saying a woman can just do for herself when it comes to her emotional needs. When she needs support or understanding, or when she really needs to hear that her new dress looks good on her, too bad. If I don't feel like it she can just manange. And when it comes to those thousand little things that husbands are supposed to remember, put down the lid, don't leave dishes in the sink, put the these towels here and those towels there... and on and on and on, tough. She can just deal with it. How is this any different?

 

 

Ducksoup..

 

where in this does the OP only indicate that he wishes to discuss women who constantly deny 'regular" sex...the post is about obligation....while the OP may have indicated that further along in the discussion, the original post didn't say this, and it is NOT a straw man discussion...it is looking at the situation from another angle...

 

To put it simply...if one feels that a wife ( or husband ) is "obligated" to have sex as part of their marriage, where does this obligation end? Does this mean that they are obligated to meet each and every one of their spouses sexual desires, even if some of these acts are extremely distasteful to them? What if the spouse who wants the acts to be performed knew full well when the got married that they were a turn off for their new husband /wife...

 

( and before you accuse me of having a "sex starved" husband- I can assure you most vehemently he is not...in fact, one former poster on here accused us of being "sex addicts" because of the frequency( at least once or more a day most days if we are in the same place)...

[Els]

I have two sons myself and both of them managed this "task" from the time they were 6. I cannot even imagine if my husband mentioned "Hey, I put the seat down and wiped up after myself" as if that is some loving and great accomplishment. That would be the same as if I said "Hey, I didn't leave my tampon floating in the toilet" or any other evidence to gross you out.

In other news, I bathe, hang up the towel and pick up after myself. I didn't realize medals were given out for that, or oral sex.

 

Today I actually wrapped up my sanitary pad and put it in the bin instead of leaving it out for the bf. Sadly he did not spontaneously give me cunnilingus for it. Should I point out how he is reneging on his part of the 'obligation'?

[randomized]

I think "obligated" is a bad word.

 

Yes, part of being married is having a healthy sex life that is acceptable to both people.

 

If there is a problem with intimacy, it's time to stop, sit down, and ask why.

 

Treating your wife like a live-in hooker, maid, and chef is not acceptable.

 

If she's not receptive to sex, maybe try to think about what you might be doing to cause this. Obviously, this goes both ways, but I can only speak from the female perspective.

 

Women are emotional, and don't compartmentalize sex or process sexual feelings in the same way that men do. We're just different.

 

To be honest, you may not be as good at sex as you think you are. Brutal truth, but seriously. I don't mean that in a mean way. Not all women have the same hot buttons, and what may have worked with someone else, may not work with her. A lot of guys tend to have a simplistic mentality towards a lot of things. "If pulling this lever worked with an acceptable result before, it should work this way every time." Not so with women and sex.

 

I had to gently give my husband some pointers awhile back. He was genuinely interested in making sure that the sex was excellent for both of us. He was suprised to hear a few things. If you ask, she will tell you.

 

The thing I told my husband, because I use humor to soften the blow....

 

"If you try to start your car in the dead of winter, it may not turn over. You have to warm it up first before you drive it."

 

If you really want your wife to enjoy sex, you have to put in some effort. In return, you'll probably see more of it, and if she's into it, the intensity will be heightened.