Els Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 yes, I've given up on it. We've discussed it ad nauseam. It's been going on for 4 years now (see my registration date). There is one big underlying problem: she has no libido. Zero. Even if we compromise, she would be doing it for me. She's said she's done that many times in the past. How horrendous. I don't want that. I don't want pity sex, because this is what it boils down to. Since she doesn't want to fix herself and I don't want to leave, I have no other option. I could walk away from it, but I have decided to stay, until my little one flies the nest, which will be another 7 years. We'll see after that. This is what happens when sex becomes an 'obligation'. Truly sad for you. But good on you for not accepting 'pity sex', IMO. I hope you do decide to leave after your children are grown. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 have you told your wife that there is the very real possibility that you could leave once your kids are grown and moved out? ( perhaps that is wishful thinking...seems more and more kids are growing up and staying put:laugh:) If not, do you think that knowing that would change anything? ( I'm not suggesting you "threaten" her with that knowledge, but more that you let her know your honest feelings... She hates conflict and she would see it as an "attack", since I'm telling her now. It wouldn't change a thing. It would make her more miserable and less inclined to sex. Remember that she said to me that we were sexually incompatible. Which isn't true. She still likes sex and we were having sex twice a day when we met. A theoretical question... If you told her that, and the reasons why you felt that way, and it somehow got through to her and she started trying to be more intimate and to have sex with you again, would that change how you feel? If it wasn't "pity" sex but more "i'm not in the mood, but you are, and I love you and what to make you happy" type sex would you be okay with that? If she really has zero sex drive ( is that because of the medication she takes? If so, she should consider changing them...not only because of the side effect of lower her sex drive, but also because, from what I understand, that can also be a sign that they are causing more serious side effects...there's some new meds. that don't have these side effects and that are also a lot more effective) but she wanted to have sex with you because she loved you and wanted you to be happy would that be enough for you? I want her to have sex because she wants to, not to make me happy. So, my answer would be "no"! We have discussed changing meds, but she feels safe with the current ones... yes, maybe selfish... it's always been me me me with her. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 This is what happens when sex becomes an 'obligation'. Truly sad for you. But good on you for not accepting 'pity sex', IMO. I hope you do decide to leave after your children are grown. Maybe... I don't know yet. I don't see any point in discussing it now, really. I don't want her to feel guilty or to have sex with me because "I might be leaving one day". We haven't had sex for 18 days now. Don't miss it, to be honest. You get used to it and I'd rather avoid the whole baggage which comes with it... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Robert Z Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Maybe... I don't know yet. I don't see any point in discussing it now, really. I don't want her to feel guilty or to have sex with me because "I might be leaving one day". We haven't had sex for 18 days now. Don't miss it, to be honest. You get used to it and I'd rather avoid the whole baggage which comes with it... 18 DAYS?!?!?! Christ, you aren't going without sex. I went 10 years. Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 it's always been me me me with her. oh, dear...that's not good at all... Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 18 DAYS?!?!?! Christ, you aren't going without sex. I went 10 years. yes, I know, but I think my wife actually cares a little bit about me and also doesn't want me to go... so, we have it sometimes. Once a month is officially a sexless marriage. But I really can't believe you didn't have sex for 10 years and stayed this long? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Robert Z Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) But I really can't believe you didn't have sex for 10 years and stayed this long? Neither do I. The things we do for love, eh? I swear to God it's the Gospel truth. But the fact is that you haven't even begun to suffer due to lack of sex. If I can see my girls every 18 days [proximity to Nevada] I'm doing pretty good. I consider that a good sex life! Edited July 26, 2012 by Robert Z Link to post Share on other sites
Author Robert Z Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 I know my brother-in-law hasn't been laid in over two years. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Err, okay, I really wouldn't call 18 days or even once a month 'sexless'. Yes, it's pretty lacking, but that's an entirely different kettle of fish from a genuinely sexless R. It would be like a woman saying that her husband 'never brings her out on date night' when they actually do go out once a month. The fact that it doesn't happen as often as you would like doesn't negate the fact that it does happen. What reasons did she give for the 'sexual incompatibility' that she perceives, if she still likes having sex? Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 What reasons did she give for the 'sexual incompatibility' that she perceives, if she still likes having sex? That I would like it once a week and she would like it once every 3 months... she even proposed a totally sexless marriage at one point. No sex at all. So, she likes it when she feels like and when she can be bothered... Sure, I'm having a bit of sex, but it's not a healthy sexual relationship, which is what I'm looking for. It also comes with a lot of baggage. Should I be happy, then? Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 That I would like it once a week and she would like it once every 3 months... she even proposed a totally sexless marriage at one point. No sex at all. So, she likes it when she feels like and when she can be bothered... ...But you just said that she offered to have sex even when she didn't feel like it, and you turned her down? And what was that about her still liking sex? How would that make sense if she proposed a totally sexless marriage? Sure, I'm having a bit of sex, but it's not a healthy sexual relationship, which is what I'm looking for. It also comes with a lot of baggage. Should I be happy, then? I'm not saying that, I'm saying the two are different issues. A genuinely sexless R is different from a R in which both partners just prefer sex at different frequencies but still are interested in it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Robert Z Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Sure, I'm having a bit of sex, but it's not a healthy sexual relationship, which is what I'm looking for. It also comes with a lot of baggage. Should I be happy, then? No, but don't presume to know what it means to really go without. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 No, but don't presume to know what it means to really go without. I would prefer no sex to sex in this situation... Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 ...But you just said that she offered to have sex even when she didn't feel like it, and you turned her down? And what was that about her still liking sex? How would that make sense if she proposed a totally sexless marriage? She offered, I accepted, but I have decided that I hate it. She still likes sex, but on her own terms. The totally sexless marriage was proposed because she feels under pressure (hates conflict) when she feels that she has to have sex with me. So, she just proposed it. It would be better for her. Forget about me! I'm not saying that, I'm saying the two are different issues. A genuinely sexless R is different from a R in which both partners just prefer sex at different frequencies but still are interested in it. Of course they are... but it doesn't make it any better! Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Ah yes, the joy of feeling like a sex offender as you try to bust a nut as quickly as possible while she lays there like a mortified little girl. Fantastic. Get over yourself, or point out to me where I had ever suggested that he accept her offers of obligatory sex. As far as the original question, I think any woman in a relationship is obligated to provide her partner with sex. Unfortunately, 'lying there like a mortified little girl' is what women who feel 'obligated to provide their partners with sex' do. She offered, I accepted, but I have decided that I hate it. She still likes sex, but on her own terms. The totally sexless marriage was proposed because she feels under pressure (hates conflict) when she feels that she has to have sex with me. So, she just proposed it. It would be better for her. Forget about me! Have you ever tried just... not pressuring? I mean, I'm not saying it's the best solution, but you don't want to leave because of your kids so it's probably worth a try. Sometimes people tend to give more when you lift up on the pressure and instead show more appreciation. It won't be an instant fix, but gradually, as she feels that you've stopped pressuring her and there is less conflict and sex isn't something that she 'has' to do anymore, she may open up more if she still has a sex drive. After all, you said that she does, just that she wants to have it on her own time and without pressure, right? Also, how often do you take her out on date nights, romance her, the whole deal? Link to post Share on other sites
Radu Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Referring to the OP. I believe that yes and no. A wife [or man] is obligated to give her partner sex, if the partner craves it and she can't provide it then she needs to be ok with alternate arrangements or divorce. If she refuses and manipulates her way across without compromise, then that is selfish behaviour. I found this older post by findingnemo : http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/304288-how-deal-emotionally-unavailable-spouse#post3702140 Love and sex can be separate if need be, but in more recently giotto's case [i read your threads dude], your problem in that marriage is not sex. I believe your wife is asexual by subconscious choice. You said it yourself, she was very lovey-dovey while she wanted kids. As soon as she saw them, her libido went down. If she were asexual all along, she would not have been able to be that sexual before and then stop. You said a lot of things about her, manipulative, refuses to open up, shuts down, refuses counseling, etc ... it all ties in with selfishness and some form of defense mechanism. I think some trauma happened in her past that made her that way and she refuses to deal with it, built a fantastic barrier that manipulates you and distorts her own reality. You also said that her behaviour is rubbing off on her daughters, which means that from a victim, she is turning into an abuser ... not direct abuser but i will bet anything it's from her parents somehow so she is continuing the cycle. Overall, i really feel sorry about you and think you are making a big mistake for staying. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 yes, I've given up on it. We've discussed it ad nauseam. It's been going on for 4 years now (see my registration date). There is one big underlying problem: she has no libido. Zero. Even if we compromise, she would be doing it for me. She's said she's done that many times in the past. How horrendous. I don't want that. I don't want pity sex, because this is what it boils down to. Since she doesn't want to fix herself and I don't want to leave, I have no other option. I could walk away from it, but I have decided to stay, until my little one flies the nest, which will be another 7 years. We'll see after that. So you don't want her to feel obligated to please you. I think a big part of marriage IS doing things specifically to please your spouse, even if you'd personally prefer to be doing something else. That's what married people do for each other. They care for each other. They take care of their spouse's needs. This is something she could and should be doing specifically to please you, even if she's not that interested in sex herself. Let me use an example from my own marriage. My husband washes my car for me once a week. I don't ask him to, but he knows I need it washed, so he does it as an act of love and caring for me, of taking care of my needs because he loves me. I'm sure he'd rather be doing something else instead of washing the car, like taking a nap, but he enjoys doing things for me. That is how he shows his love--through his actions. I think your wife could show her love for you by giving you the pleasure of satisfying you, even if she doesn't think she's getting much out of it herself. But I tend to think that even if her desire for sex isn't much, she still enjoys the feeling of being touched once it's started. I think you should ask her if she would be willing to be intimate with you because it's something you need in your marriage, even though she's not feeling the desire herself, just as an act of love for you. You shouldn't feel guilty for asking for sex. It's not pity sex. It's an act of love that you do for your husband, even if you aren't feeling particularly interested. Because HE wants that physical intimacy. So don't think of it as pity sex. Think of it as a wife showing her love for her husband in a way that pleases him. You need to let her know how much you need that in your marriage, and let her know that that is a way you need her to show her love for you. She could do that as an act of love for you, even if she is not feeling she's getting a lot of enjoyment out of it herself, although I'm sure you could incorporate things in your lovemaking that feels good to her. Make it more enjoyable for her. I mean, who doesn't like a nice massage to go with it? Everybody likes a massage. I don't think you should give up on this, and I don't think you should feel it wrong for getting "pity sex". In fact, don't even use that term. She would be showing her love for you by doing something that pleases you. You need to be more insistant that that is what you need in your life, and that is an important way she can show her love for you. Don't give up, and don't blindside her with a divorce after years of resentment within you. You need to talk to her about how you are feeling, and how important this is to you, and how the lack of intimacy is hurting your marriage and your emotional connection with her, and that emotional and physical intimacy is something you need in your life, and even if she's not feeling desire for sexual intimacy, you want her to do it as an act of love for you. Suggest to her that when you feel you need sexual intimacy, that you approach her and she satisfies this desire as an act of love, even if her sexual desire isn't there. Because it's something you need in your life and your marriage. There's nothing wrong with that, and I guarantee you if you incorporate some things, such as massage, into your lovemaking, she will get some enjoyment out of it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I think any woman in a relationship is obligated to provide her partner with sex. I think that's weird and creepy. I've never considered sex as a something one is "obliged" to "provide" to someone else. I view it as something shared between people. Sexual compatibility is very important to me, and to many. If it's not there, and it's important to you - then you need to try to work it out or consider moving on. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Unfortunately, 'lying there like a mortified little girl' is what women who feel 'obligated to provide their partners with sex' do. Probably, the obligatory act also requires dramatic displays of awe at the fellow's throbbing member and Herculean sexual prowess. I think that probably falls into the realm of what all women in a relationship are supposedly obliged to provide, according to this line of thinking. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 That's what I said. I specifically stated that I don't think anyone should legally or physically be forced to have sex but if she's not going to give it up she can get out of my house. You're already expecting to be providing for the whole house, then, with absolutely no contribution from her? Well, I'm sure there are some women who would be glad to 'give it up' for that. Enjoy your transaction, I guess? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 That's what I said. I specifically stated that I don't think anyone should legally or physically be forced to have sex but if she's not going to give it up she can get out of my house. What if she pays half or more of the bills? Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Ah, so the wife would be expected to automatically give up her house and come live in yours, from which she would be promptly 'kicked out of' if she failed to 'give up' sex whenever you want? Sounds like an awesome deal to me. I wonder why no one's jumping for it... Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Oh it's a complete hypothetical as I'd never allow a woman to move into my house. By kicking her out of my house I mean not calling her again. I don't see the problem, she's free to not have sex with me and im equally free to date someone else. I don't think anyone is saying that it's a problem, hon. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Robert Z Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Ah, so the wife would be expected to automatically give up her house and come live in yours, from which she would be promptly 'kicked out of' if she failed to 'give up' sex whenever you want? Sounds like an awesome deal to me. I wonder why no one's jumping for it... As opposed to "loving" your husband but denying a most basic need? Sounds like the same deal to me. Let's cut the forced sex, pity sex crap. The use of that language is just a cop out. The premise of the thread was that IF you love your husband you wouldn't put him through what I've been through. Why women think having sex is so much different than the things we all do when we love someone, is beyond me. Did I want to wait on my wife hand and foot when she had surgery? Did I want to give her enemas? Did I want to put up with her annoying sister and obnoxious brother-in-law? Did she look good every time I said so. Hell no! I did it because I loved her. But turn the tables and its akin to rape or pity sex? The hypocracy is actually making me feel sick. The fact is that my ex wife still loved me and probably still does. The problem is that she was too selfish to give of herself. It was all me, me, me. That is all there is to it. I can tell you this beyond a doubt. It was asking a lot of more of me to go without than it was to expect some attention from her. But that doesn't matter because men's needs don't matter unless a woman happens to feel like not being selfish. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 As opposed to "loving" your husband but denying a most basic need? Sounds like the same deal to me. Let's cut the forced sex, pity sex crap. The use of that language is just a cop out. The premise of the thread was that IF you love your husband you wouldn't put him through what I've been through. Why women think having sex is so much different than the things we all do when we love someone, is beyond me. Did I want to wait on my wife hand and foot when she had surgery? Did I want to give her enemas? Did I want to put up with her annoying sister and obnoxious brother-in-law? Did she look good every time I said so. Hell no! I did it because I loved her. But turn the tables and its akin to rape or pity sex? The hypocracy is actually making me feel sick. The fact is that my ex wife still loved me and probably still does. The problem is that she was too selfish to give of herself. It was all me, me, me. That is all there is to it. I can tell you this beyond a doubt. It was asking a lot of more of me to go without than it was to expect some attention from her. But that doesn't matter because men's needs don't matter unless a woman happens to feel like not being selfish. You need to re-read my posts and see where I have advocated that a woman should go without sex for 10 years. Link to post Share on other sites
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