do you believe religion can co-exist with evolution?

[M30USA]

I have researched this topic for HUNDREDS of hours.

 

The reason why God ordered the armies of Joshua to annihilate all living things (including animals by the way) in the area of Canaan is because "there were Nephilim in the land". Nephilim are the offspring of fallen angels and human women, most notably of which was the giant Goliath.

 

Many people poo-poo this view but do you know it was the ONLY view held by ALL church fathers until 500 AD? Additionally it is still held to this day by rabbinical sch

 

Above is my post which got interrupted (as you can tell) because I accidentally hit submit and it wouldn't let me type more.

 

Anyway...

 

What I was going to say is that in both cases of Nephilim infiltration of earth (before the flood on a grand scale and after the flood in the isolated area of Canaan), the purpose of Satan was to take over the human gene pool with what Genesis 3:15 refers to as the "seed of the serpent". It's clear from this verse that NOT ONLY would there be enmity between the woman (ie, humanity) and the serpent, but ADDITIONALLY between between the woman's seed and the serpent's seed. Very important.

 

So even if you think this is a bunch of BS, just hear me out. If the Bible is correct on this, then if Satan had achieved his goal, you would not have the savior Jesus Christ. Why? Because the serpent's seed would have won out against the seed of the woman and Christ (who was prophesied to come from the woman's seed) would not have been truly from her seed. Satan's goal was to prevent Christ from coming. And since we know that God PROMISED to Adam and Eve that their offspring would defeat Satan (ie, through Christ), God cannot be a liar. When God promises something, he will not be made out a liar. So that is why he killled the Nephilim. All mankind would have been sent to hell without any chance of salvation--had Christ not been born from the seed of Eve. We could only have been redeemed by one of our own "kin", not the kin of angels or fallen angels. Thank the Lord he did what he did in the Flood and later on in Canaan.

[123321]

its seems all religious people take great offence with the topic of evolution.

 

now im a firm believer in science. it really scares me that there are school who dont teach evolution. i have no problem with people believing in creationism, you can learn about it in your church, mosques, temples, where ever else, you wish.

 

Almost all mainstream Christianity has embraced pagan teaching, most by way of the Catholic Church, so I don't see why they can't embrace the new pagans just as well as those who celebrate Ashtoreth and Saturnalia.

[M30USA]

Almost all mainstream Christianity has embraced pagan teaching, most by way of the Catholic Church, so I don't see why they can't embrace the new pagans just as well as those who celebrate Ashtoreth and Saturnalia.

 

Agreed. Modern Christianity is a joke. It's not even Bible based. People bash the Church but the Church is hardly founded on God's Word anymore. It's all "experiential" and "seeker friendly" which equates to looking exactly like everyone other group or philosophy in the world.

[thatone]

worst straw man argument ever, lol.

[M30USA]

According to...who, what? You really do make the most ridiculous, unsubstantiated claims. Where is this consensus among biologists that evolution is "losing steam"?

 

"The Edge of Evolution" by Michael Behe. He is a molecular biologist. It was convincing enough to make my sister, an atheist and Ivy-League educated PhD, tell me that she has now serious doubts about the evolutionary theory and is currently looking at other explanations.

[sally4sara]

So there were giants huh? I went looking for evidence and found only crack pot (or shall we say crack pipe) stories on sites that include notorious UFO BS and doctored photos. Because you know, if they exist, I want to go see them. I can find NOTHING about where to go to see them for myself.

 

Have Archaeologists Found Skeletons of Biblical Giants in Greece? « A. Roy King

 

We find the skeletal remains of dinosaurs and other long since extinct creatures that actually support the theory of evolution. But hmmmm, no giant bones. Hmmm; how odd. Nothing to support your giant theory except text. Perhaps you've hear of the word FICTION? Where something made up is made into written word and distributed for reading entertainment. If all we needed to call something FACT was to write down that which we wanted others to believe, we wouldn't have the need for evidence in convicting people of crimes.

[M30USA]

So there were giants huh? I went looking for evidence and found only crack pot (or shall we say crack pipe) stories on sites that include notorious UFO BS and doctored photos. Because you know, if they exist, I want to go see them. I can find NOTHING about where to go to see them for myself.

 

Have Archaeologists Found Skeletons of Biblical Giants in Greece? « A. Roy King

 

We find the skeletal remains of dinosaurs and other long since extinct creatures that actually support the theory of evolution. But hmmmm, no giant bones. Hmmm; how odd. Nothing to support your giant theory except text. Perhaps you've hear of the word FICTION? Where something made up is made into written word and distributed for reading entertainment. If all we needed to call something FACT was to write down that which we wanted others to believe, we wouldn't have the need for evidence in convicting people of crimes.

 

There are a few options:

 

1) Look up Gigantopethicus. It was allegedly an "ape" who was a precursor to humans and was extremely tall.

 

2) Neanderthals could potentially have been the Nephilim. The similarities are staggering. We can start an entire other thread on this alone. Go for it and I will gladly engage.

 

3) Not all Nephilim were necessarily giants. SOME were, but it wasn't their identifying characteristic. Their identifying characteristics were potentially various, some of which might not have been physically noticeable.

[M30USA]

4) Check out the book "Giants" by Steven Quayle. Even if you label him a quack, it's worth at least looking at the photos of real people from modern times who've been 9 to 10 feet tall--without the abnormality of giantism.

[M30USA]

Sorry this was a double post

[sally4sara]

4) Check out the book "Giants" by Steven Quayle. Even if you label him a quack, it's worth at least looking at the photos of real people from modern times who've been 9 to 10 feet tall--without the abnormality of giantism.

 

And I hear vampires are real and in fact, sparkle in the sunlight. Check out Twilight.

[M30USA]

So there were giants huh? I went looking for evidence and found only crack pot (or shall we say crack pipe) stories on sites that include notorious UFO BS and doctored photos. Because you know, if they exist, I want to go see them. I can find NOTHING about where to go to see them for myself.

 

Have Archaeologists Found Skeletons of Biblical Giants in Greece? « A. Roy King

 

We find the skeletal remains of dinosaurs and other long since extinct creatures that actually support the theory of evolution. But hmmmm, no giant bones. Hmmm; how odd. Nothing to support your giant theory except text. Perhaps you've hear of the word FICTION? Where something made up is made into written word and distributed for reading entertainment. If all we needed to call something FACT was to write down that which we wanted others to believe, we wouldn't have the need for evidence in convicting people of crimes.

 

Get back to me when you've done at least a few hours, minimum, of research other than a Google search and we will continue.

[Tulsy]

Get back to me when you've done at least a few hours, minimum, of research other than a Google search and we will continue.

 

Are you saying that ancient texts are a better source for research than Google? That really discredits so much of what mankind has achieved thus far.

[M30USA]

Ive provided 4 bulleted points which can be used as leads for anyone to research on their own. It's a start for anyone who truly wants to look into it. I won't continue discussing this at this time.

[Tulsy]

Ive provided 4 bulleted points which can be used as leads for anyone to research on their own. It's a start for anyone who truly wants to look into it. I won't continue discussing this at this time.

 

You talk about research, but you have abandoned independent thought. That is what religion has done for you...it has told you what to believe.

 

You seek out passages in the bible and try to pass them off as evidence. These "points" you display are not based in any factual truths.

 

You have a fixed perspective of the truth. In accepting this "blind faith" you have robbed yourself of the ability to understand reality correctly. You have crippled yourself.

 

You associate ideas which are not associated. Things will never really make sense to you, because you can never really have clarity when you have accepted the answer that was given to you without questioning.

 

You should have more trust in your own intellect instead of putting it all into something supernatural which you cannot prove exists.

[M30USA]

Tulsy,

 

I don't know you. You don't know me. Don't assume you know what has led me to adopt the current views I have. Do you honestly think I woke up one day and randomly decided to collectively view everything in the Bible as truth just blindly? It was a gradual process. As I wrote in another post, my parents arent even believers.

 

The Bible is multifaceted. It's so the only book which explains satisfactorily why people act the way they day, why the world is the way it is. It's simultaneously dreadfully pessimistic yet almost childishly hopeful. The science of it isn't even the issue. Nobody, as objective as they claim to be, bases their views entirely on objective data. People are agenda-driven. Even much science is. Even with all this said the Bible still holds water historically and scientifically--and everybody knows it otherwise the atheist/theist debate would've been dropped long ago.

 

Nobody's views are entirely their own. Atheism, agnosticism, paganism...even those are ancient. Evolution, even, was not thought up by Darwin. Not only did his father have the theory, but the philosophy of it has been around since ancient times.

 

Humans are not in charge of the world. You did not create yourself and you SURELY didn't decide what to believe in an original way. Stop demanding the same from me. I don't even take credit for my own views, but attribute then entirely to the Holy Spirit. I don't delude myself into thinking that I came up with my views--as you seem to do.

[Tulsy]

Tulsy,

 

I don't know you. You don't know me. Don't assume you know what has led me to adopt the current views I have. Do you honestly think I woke up one day and randomly decided to collectively view everything in the Bible as truth just blindly? It was a gradual process. As I wrote in another post, my parents arent even believers.

 

The Bible is multifaceted. It's so the only book which explains satisfactorily why people act the way they day, why the world is the way it is. It's simultaneously dreadfully pessimistic yet almost childishly hopeful. The science of it isn't even the issue. Nobody, as objective as they claim to be, bases their views entirely on objective data. People are agenda-driven. Even much science is. Even with all this said the Bible still holds water historically and scientifically--and everybody knows it otherwise the atheist/theist debate would've been dropped long ago.

 

Nobody's views are entirely their own. Atheism, agnosticism, paganism...even those are ancient. Evolution, even, was not thought up by Darwin. Not only did his father have the theory, but the philosophy of it has been around since ancient times.

 

Humans are not in charge of the world. You did not create yourself and you SURELY didn't decide what to believe in an original way. Stop demanding the same from me. I don't even take credit for my own views, but attribute then entirely to the Holy Spirit. I don't delude myself into thinking that I came up with my views--as you seem to do.

 

You admit that over time, you have come to "collectively view everything in the Bible as truth".

 

You believe that your bible is the "only book which explains satisfactorily why people act the way they day, why the world is the way it is."

 

You believe the "Bible still holds water scientifically".

 

You believe all of your views can be "attribute then entirely to the Holy Spirit".

 

"I don't delude myself"....I honestly think you do.

[M30USA]

You admit that over time, you have come to "collectively view everything in the Bible as truth".

 

You believe that your bible is the "only book which explains satisfactorily why people act the way they day, why the world is the way it is."

 

You believe the "Bible still holds water scientifically".

 

You believe all of your views can be "attribute then entirely to the Holy Spirit".

 

"I don't delude myself"....I honestly think you do.

 

My comment about "deluding" oneself was in specific reference to thinking we have formed our own beliefs on our own. Neither you or I can claim that. If you've read any history, philosophy, religion, or science books then you've been influenced. Funny how you are implying that your thoughts are your own and yet Isaac Newton admitted he "stood on the shoulder of giants". (By the way, Newton believed the Bible was inspired Word of God and spent the MAJORITY of his time after his 20s, when he made his discoveries, studying the Bible. It's documented that he was "obsessed" with the Bible.)

[NXS]

that particles can give mass-less energy mass.

 

there you have it, a thing is created from no-thing.

 

So where did energy come from?

 

Btw since matter is mostly space anyway it's not surprising that particles are mostly, or maybe exclusively, energy.

 

Nor does it prove anything about evolution.

[M30USA]

So where did energy come from?

 

Btw since matter is mostly space anyway it's not surprising that particles are mostly, or maybe exclusively, energy.

 

Nor does it prove anything about evolution.

 

True dat.

 

I heard a physicist say that if you actually removed all the space in the universe, you would hardly be left with any physical matter at all--maybe enough to fill a football field. It's crazy to think that we can touch a hard stone or tabletop and really be touching primarily space. But it's the relationship (or bonds) between the matter which gives it most of its properties.