I couldn't do it

[rosieisblue]

I don't mean it as a criticism to say she played it well. I mean it that she is smart and knew that hanging on woudln't mean anything while he wanted to be with me, so she let him go. And now he's with me and there are all these complications and she's not doing anything but ignoring most of it. She's looking for a new place, getting some work apparently and dealing with teh kids. that seems to be the only thing she talks to him about. She's not arguing with him anymore either.

 

I'm really not being bitchy about her. Just looking at everything and seeing that it's a mess. And I don't really know what I want amymore. I want him but I'm not sure we can work.

[rosieisblue]

The thing is, she's very smart, according to him. Very smart. In the few emails she's sent me she is very smart. Huge vocabulary, really intelligent, very well spoken. It's kind of weird, she's very grownup and logical. And very sure of herself, says what she's thinking in a direct way. She kind of scares me, to be honest.

[MissBee]

I don't mean it as a criticism to say she played it well. I mean it that she is smart and knew that hanging on woudln't mean anything while he wanted to be with me, so she let him go. And now he's with me and there are all these complications and she's not doing anything but ignoring most of it. She's looking for a new place, getting some work apparently and dealing with teh kids. that seems to be the only thing she talks to him about. She's not arguing with him anymore either.

 

I'm really not being bitchy about her. Just looking at everything and seeing that it's a mess. And I don't really know what I want amymore. I want him but I'm not sure we can work.

 

Yes it seems like the wife feels like you all have your work cut out for you, and she doesn't need to be vindictive or do anything to you all, as you'll have your own problems--so she's moving on with her life, probably happy to be free of him and his mess.

[MissBee]

The thing is, she's very smart, according to him. Very smart. In the few emails she's sent me she is very smart. Huge vocabulary, really intelligent, very well spoken. It's kind of weird, she's very grownup and logical. And very sure of herself, says what she's thinking in a direct way. She kind of scares me, to be honest.

 

Lol do you mean as opposed to MM? How is it weird? It's normal...when you're in your 40s with kids you should be grown up and logical hopefully.

 

I could have told you that she was smart and grownup...I think I did actually lol. I wasn't trying to be rude when I said that you and MM seem like teenagers caught up and she's the only one who seems like a grown up. She has handled everything well, and she yells and curses him out because of his foolish behavior, particularly with the "surprise" meeting of her kids. A lot of what you and MM have decided and planned doesn't make sense...and she's upset because she realizes it, and she's just concerned about her kids.

 

She probably loves this man, but is realizing that she can no longer parent an adult man. She probably feels like you two won't last and that he's being ridiculous, so she's allowing it to play out. He seems like a rebellious teenager who is blaming his wife/mommy for everything, as he runs off with his gf and I think he is partly using you to prove her wrong. He knows she is logical, mature and sensible and just like she intimidates you because of this, she probably intimidates him too. You're not that big of a challenge for him. You believe the stuff he tells you and simply agree to them for the most part. You think he is all that and a bag of chips...why wouldn't he love that? You don't criticize him or call him out and I'm sure he loves it and unfortunately you may be a pawn in his little rebellious game with his wife.

 

Hopefully she doesn't take him back and hopefully you leave him in the dust too and then he grows up...

[rosieisblue]

Yes it seems like the wife feels like you all have your work cut out for you, and she doesn't need to be vindictive or do anything to you all, as you'll have your own problems--so she's moving on with her life, probably happy to be free of him and his mess.

 

This is what I mean by she played it well. I still think she wants him back but has walked away while he and I face this mess. She's not involving herself anymore. And now it's all gone messy and I don't know how to deal with this.

 

Advice, more advice. I need to figure this out. I can't just quit my job so could start looking for another but how do I handle it while we still work together? It's not a huge office and everyone at work knows what happened. If I end it it's going to be really uncomfortable at work, not just for me and him but for everyone.

[Trimmer]

Yes you can feel all kinds of powerful emotions for a person within a few months. Yes there can be passion, intimacy, excitement, maybe even love (the early/beginning stages at least) ... but none of those feelings are proof that a relationship with that person can last, or even if it does last it doesn't mean the relationship is healthy.

... and as a matter of fact, not only do those intense initial feelings not prove the potential for longevity, they often mask issues that are important to the health of a long-term relationship. They induce you to overlook the very things in his behavior that are contributing damage to his relatinship with his wife (and sadly, maybe with his children, too.)

 

Those feelings convince you that he doesn't have any problems, any red flags to worry about, because things are just going to be different with you.

 

Or, put more succinctly:

...you need to understand that the fact that you love him doesn't make him a good guy.

 

The fact that you love him doesn't mean that he is right for you.

 

Rosie, you said this:

I just hate that he's at a family thing with all his relatives there and I'm not there. It's still me over here and him over there and nothing looks like it's going to change.

And people gave you grief about it - understandably, because its tone sounds like you are saying that you deserve to be there with him, and you aren't getting what you deserve.

 

Well, I don't think you deserve to be there - it's a flat out, uncompromising reality that you can't be there, and you should hate that reality. It's a reality that...

He comes with an ex-wife who is not going to just disappear. He comes with an extended family who may in time accept you but who will likely always have some connection to his ex.

 

He comes with children who may never accept you.

 

He comes with financial burdens due to his first family

 

And he comes with a history as a serial cheater that he doesn't want to address.

You should hate that you got yourself into the middle of this mess, but you should take that and turn it into energy for change, and do something constructive with it: extract yourself from the mess.

 

Expecting the "baggage" - as you call it - to disappear isn't realistic. As Phoenix points out, all of this stuff, except for the administrative fact of his marriage, will continue to be factors in his life. His children will always be there, and you won't be able to control how fast they adapt to you. (You still never answered how fast you adapted to and accepted your step-parent.... You did have one, right?) You won't be able to control the dynamic of the continuing relationship with his ex-wife, which can be a source of stress even in well-managed post-divorce parental partnerships. (I am an example of a pretty "good divorce" and it's still causes anxiety and tension occasionally, which we endure and work through for the benefit of the children...) And the financial considerations, the time and scheduling issues.... These aren't going to magically change "when everyone gets used to it." They are a fact of his life.

 

And that's not even mentioning the red flags of his infidelity, his cavalier attitude toward a parenting philosophy, etc. Are those things you will be accept in his partnership with you as a husband (infidelity) and parent (philosophy...)?

 

I will end with this notable point:

You can get out now with minimal scarring and little baggage, but the longer you stay the harder and the more damage you are going to do to yourself. If you can't do it yourself, get yourself to a therapist tomorrow. It's urgent.

[rosieisblue]

Lol do you mean as opposed to MM? How is it weird? It's normal...when you're in your 40s with kids you should be grown up and logical hopefully.

 

I could have told you that she was smart and grownup...I think I did actually lol. I wasn't trying to be rude when I said that you and MM seem like teenagers caught up and she's the only one who seems like a grown up. She has handled everything well, and she yells and curses him out because of his foolish behavior, particularly with the "surprise" meeting of her kids. A lot of what you and MM have decided and planned doesn't make sense...and she's upset because she realizes it, and she's just concerned about her kids.

 

She probably loves this man, but is realizing that she can no longer parent an adult man. She probably feels like you two won't last and that he's being ridiculous, so she's allowing it to play out. He seems like a rebellious teenager who is blaming his wife/mommy for everything, as he runs off with his gf and I think he is partly using you to prove her wrong. He knows she is logical, mature and sensible and just like she intimidates you because of this, she probably intimidates him too. You're not that big of a challenge for him. You believe the stuff he tells you and simply agree to them for the most part. You think he is all that and a bag of chips...why wouldn't he love that? You don't criticize him or call him out and I'm sure he loves it and unfortunately you may be a pawn in his little rebellious game with his wife.

 

Hopefully she doesn't take him back and hopefully you leave him in the dust too and then he grows up...

 

She hasn't handled everything well. At the beginning she was crazy, calling my bf a lot, hanging up, calling me, generally going crazy. I understand she was upset and it was difficult for her but wow, it was crazy.

 

I was a challenge for him. I didn't leave my bf right away because I wanted to make sure he wasn't just playing with me. But he waited it out and waited for me and bf to break up and then we got together. It took 6 weeks for that to happen and he never once went back to her. She wanted him back until she realized my bf and I had broken up.

 

She does tellhim to grow up a lot when things happen. I don't know. I don't know how a 40 year old in love is supposed to act, what's right, what's just the sillines sof being in love and what' might be him not behaving right.

 

I am worried, still, about the kid thing. I am staying away from it but it's this thing that just hangs in the air.

[MissBee]

This is what I mean by she played it well. I still think she wants him back but has walked away while he and I face this mess. She's not involving herself anymore. And now it's all gone messy and I don't know how to deal with this.

 

Advice, more advice. I need to figure this out. I can't just quit my job so could start looking for another but how do I handle it while we still work together? It's not a huge office and everyone at work knows what happened. If I end it it's going to be really uncomfortable at work, not just for me and him but for everyone.

 

*sigh*

 

It's all a mess on every angle...office affairs are just about the worst idea; you're messing with your livelihood!

 

I don't think you need to run off and quit your job. I think you should focus on your work while at work and leave your personal life and drama with your MM outside of the office as much as you can. Treat him like a normal co worker while you're at work.

 

Outside of work, tell him that you are stressed out and need some breathing room and tell him you want to slow things waaaay down. Maybe make date nights once a week or something and the rest of the time allow him to sort out his divorce and kids and all the rest...and in the mean time, get yourself a counselor to talk to in real life, who may provide you with insight. Make your life about you and not him and his drama. Focus on your friends, your own counseling and peace of mind and don't allow him to make you feel like you need to be under him 24/7.

 

Getting some breathing room will give you the space to figure out what you want to do or to see what's really going on. Go to work, do your job, tell him you want to slow down to think and grow your relationship SLOWLY, hang out with him once a week, don't text or call while he's with his kids, stop trying to go to family events (when he's with the family, go hang out with your family or your friends or by yourself and do something nice), get your own counselor to help your sanity and emotional health. Gain yourself back and see how things develop.

[rosieisblue]

To whomever asked about my stepparent. It took me about a year or two to really accept them but we're not close. My parents don't speak and haven't since the divorce. My mother was very upset when my father left for the other woman. She's also remarried and he's ok. I was introduced to my father's gf very quickly as they moved in together when my parents split. I also met my stepfather fairly quickly. It'st eh way things were done in my family. I think MMs parents were together immediately as well and met the kids from teh first marriage very quickly. It seems to have worked out ok but I don't think the first kids are close to MM's mother.

 

This is what worries me. It's been 40 years since his parents got together and it's still two families in a lot of ways, I htink.

[MissBee]

She hasn't handled everything well. At the beginning she was crazy, calling my bf a lot, hanging up, calling me, generally going crazy. I understand she was upset and it was difficult for her but wow, it was crazy.

 

I was a challenge for him. I didn't leave my bf right away because I wanted to make sure he wasn't just playing with me. But he waited it out and waited for me and bf to break up and then we got together. It took 6 weeks for that to happen and he never once went back to her. She wanted him back until she realized my bf and I had broken up.

 

She does tellhim to grow up a lot when things happen. I don't know. I don't know how a 40 year old in love is supposed to act, what's right, what's just the sillines sof being in love and what' might be him not behaving right.

 

I am worried, still, about the kid thing. I am staying away from it but it's this thing that just hangs in the air.

 

The craziness is to be expected. All she did was call him a lot and hang up on him a lot and call you. If she didn't come to your job, threaten your life, post pictures of you on the internet slandering your name etc. then it was a sane reaction. Calling your husband and his OW angrily is not what I'd classify as a "crazy" response. Scorned women have done MUCH MUCH worse. She then turned around and was cordial to you...not many would do this. I wouldn't probably.

 

What you are describing isn't a challenge IMO. You seem to believe everything he says and defer to him a lot about everything. You already said his wife seems grown up and logical...this says A LOT! This obviously must be contrasting to some other behaviors you're seeing.

 

Being inlove doesn't mean you're insane and it doesn't mean you put yourself before your kids. Everyone can see plain as day that that's not how a 40 yr old man in love should act....you already know it's crazy too...so I don't even think you buy what you're saying about "maybe this is normal". It's not. You are again solidifying my point, you're talking about "the silliness of love"....you guys don't seem to have a mature, stable love that can grow and last...but a childish, teenaged type irresponsible "love" that makes you seem a bit ridiculous, esp him, to other people. People are inlove all the while, with kids and jobs and the lot and can be inlove and conduct their lives well...he seems to be flying off the handle. That's not because of love...that's him and his issues.

 

Please read and re-read StripeyShirt's post...that's how grown ups in love, with kids and divorce act. Not like this. This is not normal or healthy.

[rosieisblue]

*sigh*

 

It's all a mess on every angle...office affairs are just about the worst idea; you're messing with your livelihood!

 

I don't think you need to run off and quit your job. I think you should focus on your work while at work and leave your personal life and drama with your MM outside of the office as much as you can. Treat him like a normal co worker while you're at work.

 

Outside of work, tell him that you are stressed out and need some breathing room and tell him you want to slow things waaaay down. Maybe make date nights once a week or something and the rest of the time allow him to sort out his divorce and kids and all the rest...and in the mean time, get yourself a counselor to talk to in real life, who may provide you with insight. Make your life about you and not him and his drama. Focus on your friends, your own counseling and peace of mind and don't allow him to make you feel like you need to be under him 24/7.

 

Getting some breathing room will give you the space to figure out what you want to do or to see what's really going on. Go to work, do your job, tell him you want to slow down to think and grow your relationship SLOWLY, hang out with him once a week, don't text or call while he's with his kids, stop trying to go to family events (when he's with the family, go hang out with your family or your friends or by yourself and do something nice), get your own counselor to help your sanity and emotional health. Gain yourself back and see how things develop.

 

The office is very small and EVERYONE knows what happened. to go to work and pretend like everything is ok, no more going out to lunch or anything like that, would be noticed and there would be gossip. I'm friends with the receptionist and a couple of other people more than just work colleagues and they would ask questions. I think i need to find another job.

[MissBee]

The office is very small and EVERYONE knows what happened. to go to work and pretend like everything is ok, no more going out to lunch or anything like that, would be noticed and there would be gossip. I'm friends with the receptionist and a couple of other people more than just work colleagues and they would ask questions. I think i need to find another job.

 

Well you all allowed everyone to be in your business....so that's just how it is.

 

No matter what happens, people will talk. That horse already went through the gate....so all you can do is move forward.

 

So yea either you get a new job, if you don't want people gossiping (although I'm sure they already gossip, but this time it will be about the current state of your situation) OR stay and just ignore the gossip.

 

At your next job...keep it strictly work rosie. It will save you A LOT of drama.

[rosieisblue]

We didn't really let it out, it just became obvious. Everyone knew he was splitting with his wife eventually and then people just started to figure out what was going on and it reached the point where it was in the open.

[UpwardForward]

*sigh*

 

It's all a mess on every angle...office affairs are just about the worst idea; you're messing with your livelihood!

 

I don't think you need to run off and quit your job. I think you should focus on your work while at work and leave your personal life and drama with your MM outside of the office as much as you can. Treat him like a normal co worker while you're at work.

.

 

Ha. Agreed and .... Ya think??

 

It's like: Do people really think it's Considerate and professional to have these on-the-job-affairs, while treating the work place as a mating site??

 

People always get to make the Choice and are forewarned as to what they're in for - or getting into.

 

Don't tell me this doesn't interfere with productivity while sacrificing what could have been - for the employer.

 

And now an employee must think about sacrificing their good job, because of the desolation these A's cause.

 

If a partnership is based on sacrifices and interruptions to others' lives, - you're not building on solid ground.

[whichwayisup]

I don't know what I want anymore. I really don't. I want him but I don't think I want the baggage.

 

He is a really nice guy and treats me well. We have a great time together and really connect, in a way I've not done before. I haven't had a lot of relatinships. My bf was my first really long and serious one. MM is handsome, charming, smart, funny, and just makes me feel very special.

 

I don't know anymore if it's enough or if it's worth it. I don't know if I want to wait around for his kids to accept me in his life or even be something to them. Most people in his life are much older than me. He's making new friends at work and they're younger but is he doing that for me? Or because a lot of thier friends are friends with her? I just don't know.

 

His kids are a package deal. Either accept it, work through it and have some faith that the love and glue that will hold you two together is strong enough to get through everything. Or, walk away now.

 

Your real problem is you think waaaaaayyy too far ahead. His kids should not be in your mind right now at all. Let him divorce and deal with the changes, adjustments and 'date' him without being involved with his family and kids. Can you do that? Focus on building something strong with him that is out of the affair dynamic.

[whichwayisup]

The thing is, she's very smart, according to him. Very smart. In the few emails she's sent me she is very smart. Huge vocabulary, really intelligent, very well spoken. It's kind of weird, she's very grownup and logical. And very sure of herself, says what she's thinking in a direct way. She kind of scares me, to be honest.

 

Why is that weird? Maybe this is because you're much younger and don't see yourself as an adult yet?

[alexandria35]

She hasn't handled everything well. At the beginning she was crazy, calling my bf a lot, hanging up, calling me, generally going crazy. I understand she was upset and it was difficult for her but wow, it was crazy.

 

I was a challenge for him. I didn't leave my bf right away because I wanted to make sure he wasn't just playing with me. But he waited it out and waited for me and bf to break up and then we got together. It took 6 weeks for that to happen and he never once went back to her. She wanted him back until she realized my bf and I had broken up.

 

She does tellhim to grow up a lot when things happen. I don't know. I don't know how a 40 year old in love is supposed to act, what's right, what's just the sillines sof being in love and what' might be him not behaving right.

 

 

 

I am worried, still, about the kid thing. I am staying away from it but it's this thing that just hangs in the air.

 

Rosie you just sound so immature. I know you're young but you sound even more immature than your actual age. You think waiting a year to meet his kids is forever and you think you were a challenge because your MM waited a whole six weeks for you to leave your bf. Six weeks is nothing and certainly doesn't make you a challenge. What else was he going to do besides wait for you? His wife kicked him out so he didn't have much choice but to wait did he. Oh wait, did he tell you his wife was begging him to come back during that six weeks? LOL...that's how he pressured you into leaving your bf and you fell for it.

[Trimmer]

The office is very small and EVERYONE knows what happened. to go to work and pretend like everything is ok, no more going out to lunch or anything like that, would be noticed and there would be gossip. I'm friends with the receptionist and a couple of other people more than just work colleagues and they would ask questions. I think i need to find another job.

So to summarize: you're embarrassed to stop your office affair, because of what everyone will think, and the gossip that will result?

 

Man, it must be Opposite Month here...

[MissBee]

So to summarize: you're embarrassed to stop your office affair, because of what everyone will think, and the gossip that will result?

 

Man, it must be Opposite Month here...

 

I was about to say too, that it seems odd that you weren't embarassed to be in the affair or when everyone at the office knew you guys were fooling around, but the weird part is if you stop?

 

Regardless, people at your office are going to gossip. So ending it and having people gossip is no more embarrassing or weird IMO, than having them gossip when it all started.

 

Relationships end. Even without the drama of the A, even if MM were a normal, single coworker, you two could have dated and broken up....and you'd have to get on with it. People gossip, but even gossipy people usually gossip for but so long then move on to the next hottest story. So it will blow over...

[rosieisblue]

I was about to say too, that it seems odd that you weren't embarassed to be in the affair or when everyone at the office knew you guys were fooling around, but the weird part is if you stop?

 

Regardless, people at your office are going to gossip. So ending it and having people gossip is no more embarrassing or weird IMO, than having them gossip when it all started.

 

Relationships end. Even without the drama of the A, even if MM were a normal, single coworker, you two could have dated and broken up....and you'd have to get on with it. People gossip, but even gossipy people usually gossip for but so long then move on to the next hottest story. So it will blow over...

 

But the reason I am embarressed if we break up is that it was such a huge thing when they split and then a short time later it came out that we were together and if we break up then we both look like a couple of losers who had an affair, his family broke up, my relaitonship broke up and then it didn't even work out.

 

It sounds stupid but it's embarrassing.

[Capris]

It sounds stupid but it's embarrassing.

 

I get it. I work with my exMM and always had. It is embarassing, but its much better then staying in a relationship thats bad.

 

Think of it differently.

Once people figure him out, you're gonna be the smart one that left

[Capris]

You never know what kind of gossip is going around. They may have even made his W a hero for kicking him out.

 

You can never know gossip. I can give you 100 stories about what they may be saying behind your backs....Just another reason to ignore the gossip and do what you want with your life.

[rosieisblue]

I don't know what I'm willing to do. It's all falling apart. He had his kids this week and was running to have lunch with me while they went home to his wife for a few hours, then back to his place where he was with them. I just don't know which way is up anymore.

[woinlove]

I don't know what I'm willing to do. It's all falling apart. He had his kids this week and was running to have lunch with me while they went home to his wife for a few hours, then back to his place where he was with them. I just don't know which way is up anymore.

 

Rosie, this is just so messed up. Obviously MM doesn't have the maturity to treat his children well, so even though you are younger than him, I urge you to step up and try to be the adult one.

 

His children have made it clear they do not want to meet you. They have recently had their parents split up, their dad broke their trust by bringing deception and betrayal into their home, he is no longer living with them, and they want to know that their father still loves and cares about them, that they will be able to trust him, and that they can still have a father-child relationship with him. That will take time. Given they have made their own feelings clear, meeting you should be completely off the table at least until MM is divorced.

 

When he is with his children, he should not be texting you, should not be arranging a lunch meeting with you, and he certainly should not be pressuring them to meet you. By doing so, he is showing his children that he doesn't really care about them as much as he cares about himself and his own needs.

 

Since MM can't seem to act like an adult, please step up yourself and tell him to just forget about the kids meeting you, to give priority to establishing a new parent-child relationship in his new role as separated and to-be-divorced parent. Either arrange your times with him so as to give him the unencumbered time to do this properly or else end things with him. The status quo of continuing to have an R with him, while having you interfere with his child time (even if this is through no fault of your own and is all his doing because he is somehow incapable of focussing on his children and/or is so obsessed with them meeting you) is cruel to his children.

[Silly_Girl]

Rosie, this is just so messed up. Obviously MM doesn't have the maturity to treat his children well, so even though you are younger than him, I urge you to step up and try to be the adult one.

 

His children have made it clear they do not want to meet you. They have recently had their parents split up, their dad broke their trust by bringing deception and betrayal into their home, he is no longer living with them, and they want to know that their father still loves and cares about them, that they will be able to trust him, and that they can still have a father-child relationship with him. That will take time. Given they have made their own feelings clear, meeting you should be completely off the table at least until MM is divorced.

 

When he is with his children, he should not be texting you, should not be arranging a lunch meeting with you, and he certainly should not be pressuring them to meet you. By doing so, he is showing his children that he doesn't really care about them as much as he cares about himself and his own needs.

 

Since MM can't seem to act like an adult, please step up yourself and tell him to just forget about the kids meeting you, to give priority to establishing a new parent-child relationship in his new role as separated and to-be-divorced parent. Either arrange your times with him so as to give him the unencumbered time to do this properly or else end things with him. The status quo of continuing to have an R with him, while having you interfere with his child time (even if this is through no fault of your own and is all his doing because he is somehow incapable of focussing on his children and/or is so obsessed with them meeting you) is cruel to his children.

 

I was pretty sure RIB and her man had decided to leave meeting the kids for now.