Silly_Girl Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I'm curious as to whether those who are atheist/agnostic have respect for those with faith. If yes, why? If no, why? My reason for asking is that my teenage son is a huge science fan and over the last 18 months or so has become increasingly disrespectful towards religious beliefs and inevitably about those who believe in creationism. I'm interested in hearing others' views. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) My reason for asking is that my teenage son is a huge science fan and over the last 18 months or so has become increasingly disrespectful towards religious beliefs That's just what the Greeks thought thousands of years ago. They were so smart and religious people were ignorant fools. If there's one major downfall of science, it's hubris. This is precisely the mindset behind the Tower of Babel: Look how great we are! We will show YOU God! And it's also the mindset behind the coming New World Order. Edited July 17, 2012 by M30USA 2 Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 How does his disrespect manifest itself? Is he downright rude to someone who is religious or does he simply like to debate the philosophies? I am an avowed non-Christian (occultist) who is dating a Lutheran. We have talked at length about our differences but my BF was a scientist so he came to his faith after years in the laboratory. The bottom line for us in our relationship is that while I have no belief or faith in the Christian dogma, he and I have the same basic philosophies on how we treat people and like to take care of our fellow man. I have no use for his church or god, but respect his desires without offending him. This could be a teaching opportunity for you. You son can believe and debate whatever he chooses to, but he should respect others' beliefs even if he does not believe as they do. He can still be responsive in listening to other viewpoints and offer integrity when explaining his without being rude. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I respect the religious beliefs of others. I do not respect those who bring them to my front door. The milk can on my front porch is testament to that, and I won't say how Link to post Share on other sites
Yamaha Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I think you can look at the spiritual threads on LS and determine they have little respect for religious beliefs. It is their mission to tell people God is a myth and believers are unenlightened. Link to post Share on other sites
SunandMoon Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I do my best to respect it. Didn't always though, was really bitter towards it as a teen. That changed when I learned to be more accepting of others differences a little bit later down the road. And that partially happened when I experienced church and started to understand what people see in religion or at least in this case; christianity. Hopefully your son will experience one of those life changing situations/moments. But you mentioned he's big into science. May I ask if he believes in evolutionism? Link to post Share on other sites
stse586 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 As a person from a religious family, I am the weirdo that is an atheist. I don't have problems with religious people as long as I am a project to be saved or have snide comments. That I will shut down. I generally don't talk about anything religious with people to just avoid it. My husband, who's also an atheist, loves debating, me not so much. From what he told me, he never went through a phase when he was younger that he was testy about it. He just simply refused to do anything related to religion at 16 or something like that. I wouldn't call religious people dumb, or I'd be calling my whole family dumb. I think some people go through a period where they have to challenge everything as a teenager. Like CarrieT, I would also like to know if it is rudeness or is he debating. You can talk about it and agree to disagree nicely. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 How does his disrespect manifest itself? Is he downright rude to someone who is religious or does he simply like to debate the philosophies? I am an avowed non-Christian (occultist) who is dating a Lutheran. We have talked at length about our differences but my BF was a scientist so he came to his faith after years in the laboratory. The bottom line for us in our relationship is that while I have no belief or faith in the Christian dogma, he and I have the same basic philosophies on how we treat people and like to take care of our fellow man. I have no use for his church or god, but respect his desires without offending him. This could be a teaching opportunity for you. You son can believe and debate whatever he chooses to, but he should respect others' beliefs even if he does not believe as they do. He can still be responsive in listening to other viewpoints and offer integrity when explaining his without being rude. I wouldn't call it disrespect Carrie. He loves a good debate. He is passionate about science. He is studying Religion at school - his choice, supported by me, but it's getting harder on the bible studies side of things. He has a blanket "there is no God" outlook and that can unnerve young people who have never been encouraged to consider it either way. Our culture is not religious at all, but we are 'token Christians'. Dawkins knows there's lots of us, we tick 'Christian' on the form but haven't taken part in any religious activity our whole adult life. Not me personally, but the background of the schoolfriends etc my son mixes with. The teaching opportunity you talk of... This is where it is interesting for ME. I have always encouraged my son to learn about and understand other religions, and I chose a specific primary school because of how inclusive it was. However, my son spends his own leisure time reading about creationism vs evolutionism for example, he reads atheist websites and reads Dawkins. Some of the sites he reads show hardcore religious images and posters and it's hard not to react inwardly. If you don't 'get' religion its impossible to understand how others who are intelligent and normal can worship a God who allows little babies to die of starvation or spreads HIV. A lad at my son's school is having sexuality issues and it disgusts my son that being a homosexual could lead to being ostracised - how can being gay be evil?! A lot of the religious views my son is pitting himself against are very extreme. At least, I hope they're extreme! I am getting to a point where I'm not sure I can demand he respect religion. He's nearly 16, for starters. Secondly, he truly believes that the religious faction that believe God created the earth, and therefore deny science, are deluded. He sees it as a real failing in them. For him, how anyone can ignore so much evidence is utterly unthinkable. Bear in mind, wherever we've travelled, all over the UK and the world, we have ended up in science museums and Hubble telescope exhibitions and planetariums. To him, believing in the bible is no different to believing in Harry Potter, only there's more proof against creationism than there is against Hogwarts! If his friend had a family whose views were far right, I wouldn't be saying that he should respect someone's choice to be a fascist... I think it's important to be courteous where others' religion and politics are concerned (don't be abusive!) but I don't know that 'respect' is necessary. If anything, the more he backs up his arguments and shows me how earnest he is, the more hypocritical I would be to demand he have respect for something that, to him, is laughable, delusional nonsense. We're in Ireland right now and have got in to conversations with a couple of different people who were raised Catholic but have let their faith lapse. One is adamant that within 50yrs there will be no religion in Ireland (I disagree). My son's take on this was more disappointment that it's the paedophile scandals that have made a difference to these individuals rather than the overwhelming scientific evidence that the whole notion is built on dust, in his eyes. And I have also pointed out to my lad that his atheism is a religion in the generic sense. His answer to that is that Christians he's encountered at school have no respect for his chosen religion so deserve none back. I do think some of the interest in this will pass (he's not met any girls yet ) but I think fundamentally his passion will remain. He's a lot of maturing to do yet, I don't want to be too influential at this stage. Link to post Share on other sites
irin Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 i dont have respect for the religions themselves, but i respect that people are entitled to their views, and opinions. they shouldn't be ridiculed for believing. its their right. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I am getting to a point where I'm not sure I can demand he respect religion. Nope, you can't. And what I meant by a teaching situation was less about teaching him about religion than teaching him to listen and respect others' opinions. At 16, I was the same way about religion. I remember it well and - at 16 - no one could teach me anything... But you can try to soften his approach and remind him often that to get along in the world, he is going to have to respect that others are going to have differing views and the best way to get along in the world is the be respectful of others. I wouldn't worry too much about his views now - but you CAN guide him how to be a polite and respectful person, regardless of his views. Hope this helps! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
thatone Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I'm curious as to whether those who are atheist/agnostic have respect for those with faith. If yes, why? If no, why? My reason for asking is that my teenage son is a huge science fan and over the last 18 months or so has become increasingly disrespectful towards religious beliefs and inevitably about those who believe in creationism. I'm interested in hearing others' views. Thanks. my gf has a teenage daughter and is seeing the same thing. the answer for me is no, i do not 'respect' religion. if someone is wrong, i will politely tell them they're wrong. if they get offended about being told they're wrong i'll tell them more forcefully that they're wrong. i don't see any upside to teaching kids a lie in hopes that it will fear them into good behavior. how can that in any way be preferable to teaching them truth and letting them figure out how to live their own lives as they wish? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Nope, you can't. You're right, but until quite recently I insisted he DID show respect and I would play devil's advocate (apols for pun) quite a lot. But he's spent time learning and it's not knee-jerk, so we've moved on. Or he has, rather, and I must also. Link to post Share on other sites
thatone Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 that's the key point, imo. "he's spent time learning". if your kids learn on their own they will, logically, learn as much as they need to know to survive on their own as adults. i would be much more concerned with assumptions, presumptions, and prejudices than i would with a kid who has educated him or herself and made a decision on their own about themselves. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
misternoname Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Been agnostic all my life. Not a very popular position to be in living in the south! I respect anyone's right to belive in whatever...hell, worship a tree for all I care. Unfortunately, Christians are very intolerant of anyone that doesn't buy into their mumbo jumbo. I have spent 48 years biting my tongue! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Been agnostic all my life. Not a very popular position to be in living in the south! I respect anyone's right to belive in whatever...hell, worship a tree for all I care. Unfortunately, Christians are very intolerant of anyone that doesn't buy into their mumbo jumbo. I have spent 48 years biting my tongue! That does not sound like fun! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Kids model their parents. Believe it or not, some of his disrespect is coming from your own ignorance and disrespect, such as in the phrase above. Not all people that are far right are fascist. I don't believe in anything that's far anything. Far left or far right, but I wouldn't dare show disrespect by name calling. And that's your personal choice, which is fine. Politics and religion are extremely personal issues. Though we both know you're not above name calling per se Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I have respect for people who follow their religions and live peacefully. And regard religion as a spiritual development for themselves, rather than to force them upon people who don't wish to know. I used to be Christian, but my spiritual growth has since gone onto different things, after having also been Rasta. I still believe in a higher power, but not in the same way that Christians do. Therefore, I have respect for people of all religions. It's difficult to go into when I live with a Christian mum. Every now and then she attributes any minor problem I have to the fact that I don't pray. I have begun meditating instead, this works for me. She thinks I'm praying now, so it doesn't matter . I'm not sure I believe in Darwinism or evolutionism though. I don't think we evolved from monkeys. But I don't believe in creationism either. I believe it's something else. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
wuggle Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Even though I am now an athiest, I have respect for people's religous views if they have thought about them seriously\sensibly and do not simple accept 'dogma' handed to them by their parents etc, and act in accordance with them. I hate hypocrisy. Link to post Share on other sites
Enema Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Do I respect their right to hold a belief? Sure Do I respect the belief itself? No way That lack of respect for a particular belief doesn't affect the quality of our relationships. It's just another in a long list of topics you can have a healthy debate over, or leave alone entirely. Just like politics, dating, health & fitness etc. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Even though I am now an athiest, I have respect for people's religous views if they have thought about them seriously\sensibly and do not simple accept 'dogma' handed to them by their parents etc, and act in accordance with them. I hate hypocrisy. Wuggle, this is where my son will struggle. In order to believe, for example, that God created the earth the individual has NOT thought about it sensibly, and is not coming from a place of knowledge/learning. Because there is way too much proof to show that God absolutely did not create the earth, and so - in my son's eyes - these people are at best wilfully ignorant, and at worst... actually mentally unstable, perhaps. He cannot respect someone who denies the science, the same as some (not all!) religious folk cannot respect someone who denies God's existence. Link to post Share on other sites
StrangeBehaviors Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I respect and feel others should respect all organized groups that are benevolent in their ideals, beliefs, & actions toward individuals or other groups. Why not be? Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 CUT...CUT...CUT... For all people using "they" and "religion", can you specific precisely who/what you're referring to? Jews? Christians? Muslims? ALL organized religion? Believers of the Bible? Followers of Christ? You are dealing with WAY too many people, groups, and ideas, to broadbrush posts like these. Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I'm curious as to whether those who are atheist/agnostic have respect for those with faith. If yes, why? If no, why? My reason for asking is that my teenage son is a huge science fan and over the last 18 months or so has become increasingly disrespectful towards religious beliefs and inevitably about those who believe in creationism. I'm interested in hearing others' views. Thanks. In the case of your son, he's probably just succumbing to group think and the pressure of his peers and instructors. In the general case, merely being "a person of faith" buys no special measure of respect in my book since most people choose what they want to believe based on what suits them the best, sort of like a track suit. I do have respect for Amish and other religious people who hold onto beliefs that are not "belief systems of convenience" even if I disagree with those beliefs. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 In the case of your son, he's probably just succumbing to group think and the pressure of his peers and instructors. It's not his teachers, he's clashed with one of those, and he's had robust debates, with religious and atheist friends alike. It seems to be more the internet and the books he's reading. Very little in the way of peer pressure. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 CUT...CUT...CUT... For all people using "they" and "religion", can you specific precisely who/what you're referring to? Jews? Christians? Muslims? ALL organized religion? Believers of the Bible? Followers of Christ? You are dealing with WAY too many people, groups, and ideas, to broadbrush posts like these. In our case, I'm referring to almost entirely Christians. We're not a very diverse town here! Link to post Share on other sites
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