bbksbabydove Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hi there! Newbie here. Im a 43 yr old very attractive woman, long divorced; with 3 kids who are all on their own now. Ive been in a relationshp with a wonderful man 6 yrs my senior for 7 yrs now. He proposed after 3 wks of dating. He spoils me rotten with material things, is faithful (Ive checked up on him several times over the yrs), and has taken me on so many vacations and spent thousands of dollars on me and my children. Here's my problem: we still dont even live together! He's clearly against living together, and avoids talk of a wedding date like its the plague. He keeps eluding to moving in "later" but its clearly simple avoidance of the issue. To be clear, we get along famously, love each other very much, and are each other's best friend. He is a somewhat excentric man: lines up the legs of his chairs with the lines in the linoleum, insists on everything - everything - being aligned straight, not crooked. I mean, I guess he's just alittle anal. He's been causing us to fight a lot over the last couple of months and its caused me to re-evaluate our relationship. I've finally given him the ultimatum: either we agree to marry or its over. He's seemed to ignore this. I no longer call him at our usual times, yet I do accept texts from him and respond. It should be noted that I've offered many times to agree to a prenup, just in case he was concerned about being taken to the cleaners by a wife during a divorce. He's been married before, as well. I'm actually afraid to lose him, yet I feel completely humiliated with the situation. I want to be his Mrs. Clearly he has reservations, yet tells me always that he loves me more than life itself. Should I chalk it up to a wonderful 7 yr experience and take my toys and move on? Or should I swallow my pride and keep waiting? (Waiting in wonder is not a comfortable place for me). If you plan to give me your opinion, I would really appreciate a well thought out one. I know that at a glance this might appear to be cut & dried, but it just feels so complicated... Please send me your thoughts... Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Well, you have a few issues going on at the same time. First, he's obviously obsessive compulsive. Which makes him do things whether he wants to, or not. If you can live with that, read on. Second, he proposed after 3 weeks of dating. YIKES! That is NOT a good sign! Frankly, if a man did that with me, I'd be running so fast he'd never see me again. Third, you gave him an ultimatum, while not willing to accept the bad response. What happens if he says no? Are you willling to walk away? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author bbksbabydove Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the response. First: I agree. He appears to be obsessive/compulsive, but not in a freaky way. He, along with me, makes light of the seemingly silly things he does. It's all lighthearted. And it doesn't negatively affect our relationship. Second: Yes, 3 wks in felt insane, but in a fabulous way! Of course, neither of us had intentions of tying the knot in any kind of hurry. We had an amazing, whirlwind romance, that lasted for years. Third: I don't want to accept the fact that he may not choose cohabitation & marriage over losing me. But I think that in and of itself speaks volumes. Don't you? I'm just so lonely, and feel that I shouldn't be at this point in a relationship and in my life. I sleep alone, wake up alone, walk the dog alone, mow the lawn, shovel in the winter. I'm home alone when strangers come to my door selling things, etc... Hell, I've even began peri-menapause (!) and really should get glasses. I just feel as though I'm going through many phases of life - alone. We've been together since my children were tweens. I went through the terrible teens alone, through a few family tragedies alone, my children flying away into their own independant lives, and now fricken menapause. He's always been on the sidelines, yes, but not really truly here. I love him dearly, I really do, but I figure that if I'm not worth it to him, then I'm mistaken by thinking he's worth it to me. I'm afraid that perhaps I'm gambling with my last few youthful years. Obviously I thought through all these years that he was worth it, but time has passed so significantly that I now feel somewhat duped I love him, though. No doubt about it. I also am aware that love can be very, very, clinically blind. I should also say that he is a very dominant alpha male. He's a big, strong man, independant and a bit of a spoiled brat. I love all of these things about him. I love him lightyears more than I've ever loved before. However, by him not scooping me up I'm left feeling like I gave him too much of me and he doesn't feel the need to close the deal. We both wear wedding rings. His, because he wanted to wear it, and mine because he bought me the beautiful engagement ring then over the years added two others to make it a huge set. Perhaps this made him feel more settled for my own good... So, to answer your question, I feel as though I must accept it if he chooses to decline my cohabitation/marriage demands. To me it feels like such a clear declaration. Am I completely out in left field here, or does anybody feel the way I do? Is this the hormones causing me to be irrational? Edited July 19, 2012 by bbksbabydove added more info Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 If he has issues like Auspbergers or something, he may simply be unable to deal with living with you (or anyone). I think if I were in your shoes, I'd be working to nail down what it is about him that can't let him get closer. It sounds like he WANTS to, but something is holding him back. I'd find out what. Link to post Share on other sites
Author bbksbabydove Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Wow, what a brilliant deduction, given the information I've supplied! I will immediately explore that. I will be back.... Thank you xo Link to post Share on other sites
NoMagicBullet Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I see it this way: OCD + Independent Alpha Male = Control Freak Living alone, he can control his environment. If he lives with you, he's going to have to give up some of that control, and that probably scares him to no end with the OCD. Whether he consciously admits this to himself or not. Is he in therapy? The way you describe him, I would assume not. It sounds like the engagement, gifts, everything in your relationship allows him a feeling of stability and control in his life and your relationship without him having to compromise or face his OCD-related fears. He doesn't want to change anything. I hate to say it, I don't think he will change, even if it means losing you. It's not your hormones. It's perfectly normal to want to live with someone you adore, and you've spent more than enough time waiting for him to be ready. He never will be. I think your choice now is to either stay in the relationship and give up the idea of ever marrying and living with him, or call it quits and find a man who wants to live with you as husband and wife. I'm sorry it turned out like this for you. Good luck, whatever you decide. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 It's completely possible that two people can love each other greatly, but find themselves simply incompatible for living together, and have to break it off. Link to post Share on other sites
Author bbksbabydove Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 I see it this way: OCD + Independent Alpha Male = Control Freak Living alone, he can control his environment. If he lives with you, he's going to have to give up some of that control, and that probably scares him to no end with the OCD. Whether he consciously admits this to himself or not. Is he in therapy? The way you describe him, I would assume not. It sounds like the engagement, gifts, everything in your relationship allows him a feeling of stability and control in his life and your relationship without him having to compromise or face his OCD-related fears. He doesn't want to change anything. I hate to say it, I don't think he will change, even if it means losing you. It's not your hormones. It's perfectly normal to want to live with someone you adore, and you've spent more than enough time waiting for him to be ready. He never will be. I think your choice now is to either stay in the relationship and give up the idea of ever marrying and living with him, or call it quits and find a man who wants to live with you as husband and wife. I'm sorry it turned out like this for you. Good luck, whatever you decide. Thank you. Sadly, I fear you might be right Things have improved, then plummetted again since my last post. He's again declared his undying love for me - yet claims he's "not ready" to cohabitate etc... 'We're at a very sad place in our relationship :'( Link to post Share on other sites
It's Just Me Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Seven years? Holy cow. That's a long time. Not sure why he would have proposed (so early in the game notwithstanding) if he had no intention of following through. Has his OCD gone out of control since the early days? Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I was struck with how many times you said that you were "alone" as you went through various things in your life the last 7 years. Why did you feel "alone" when you were dating and in love with this man, and he loves you and obviously spent plenty of time and attention on you? I guess I don't think you should have felt alone during this time. Hasn't he been there with you? Hasn't he been there to support you and help you and listen to you? If you didn't feel supported and felt "alone" throughout this whole relationship, then living together and/or marriage isn't likely to change that. Is he in therapy for his OCD? Maybe some couples counseling would help you two get to the bottom of what his hesitations and "not ready" are about? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author bbksbabydove Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 Well, he hasn't been diagnosed with ocd. It just appears that he's afflicted with it. And when two people don't live in the same home there are many many times when you want to reach out and touch, casually converse, be romantic, laugh or cry, debate, rejoice, or simply lay your eyes on that special someone, etc...and when that person is not there - I feel alone. Cohabitation would absolutely change the feeling of being alone into the feeling of togetherness. As he was not present during those times I mentioned, he was not here. He did not accompany me to many outings/events/occasions. Albeit, he was on the other end of the phone whenever I called, did offer support and an ear - over the phone. Even when one is on the phone with someone, they are still physically alone. I feel that in order to effectively communicate, bond; grow, people need to be together physically. Without physical presence there are no lingering looks, no casual conversation, no loving touches... Link to post Share on other sites
Author bbksbabydove Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 He hasn't been diagnosed with ocd; he hasn't even looked into it. OCD is just being tossed around here during this conversation. But, it is probable in a mild form. Seven years really is a long time, and I really feel it badly reflects on me as a woman that he hasn't stepped up. I'm embarassed with the fact that we don't even live together. I wonder what our peers say when we're not around. It just seems so very abnormal and I fear that he'll never want the same things that I do, even though he says he does. Talk is cheap, especially after 7 years Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Peers? I honestly doubt anyone else cares about whether you are living together or married or anything. And if they do, you certainly shouldn't give a damn what they might be thinking. That should have no bearing on anything. This is your life, not a movie that people comment on. His behavior reflects on no one but himself. Link to post Share on other sites
Author bbksbabydove Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Peers? I honestly doubt anyone else cares about whether you are living together or married or anything. And if they do, you certainly shouldn't give a damn what they might be thinking. That should have no bearing on anything. This is your life, not a movie that people comment on. His behavior reflects on no one but himself. I agree. Its nobody's business or concern, but ours. Yet I feel spurned - like its an unrequited love - and that makes a tiny piece of me feel kind of ashamed, like, the man I love so deeply doesn't quite feel the same way. Like "what's wrong with me that makes him not want me in the same manner that I want him?" Although, he'd tell you different. And yes, it is my life. And that's the big picture. The thought of spending it alone (except for our regular Saturday "dates" and the odd midweek sighting) and on the phone just strikes fear and pain in my heart. I realized tonight that this is more of an "arrangement" than a healthy relationship. I'm not the arrangement type. If I were, this would be the best thing ever, wouldn't it? I'd have a sexy, funny, successful, much sought after, virile man who isn't adversed to taking me for wonderful, frequent vacations & high end dinners, and I wouldn't have to see him all the time or deal with his whiskers in my sink, hahaha. But I really WANT those pesky whiskers. I want to see him every day after work, and squeeze his buns while walking through the house The heart wants what the heart wants. I've been relatively patient for soooo long, and my love for him has never once even entertained waivering. It's just awful feeling this way. I don't want to spend the rest of my life feeling this way, and I love him immeasurably. I'm torn between "taking care of number one" and taking a gamble on this beautiful man with whom I have so much history that it feels like he's coursing through my veins... Like you said, It's My life. Torn. Torn. Torn. Edited August 2, 2012 by bbksbabydove Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Maybe it's time you made good on your ultimatum and walk away. He has no reason to change anything while you are still with him anyway. He likely won't change anything unless he's more uncomfortable with how things are than with what the change would mean. His ocd-type behavior probably makes it hard for him to do anything that is not scheduled...change is undesirable to him as a default. He's comfortable with how things are now. Shake it up and make him uncomfortable so he may be forced to face his fears and change. Edited August 2, 2012 by norajane Link to post Share on other sites
florence of suburbia Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Seems like he's happy with things the way they are. And he knows himself enough to realize he wouldn't be happy living with you or seeing you every day. In some ways once a week isn't that bad, especially since he spoils you, gives you attention, is faithful, is available on the phone, etc. By making sure he gets plenty of time apart, maybe he is keeping the passion alive. But if you feel disappointed and cheated out of the life you want, you need to be honest with yourself and with him. Just be aware that if he married and lived with you, it probably would not be the utopia you're imagining because he would then be the one feeling resentful. Link to post Share on other sites
Author bbksbabydove Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 Maybe it's time you made good on your ultimatum and walk away. He has no reason to change anything while you are still with him anyway. He likely won't change anything unless he's more uncomfortable with how things are than with what the change would mean. His ocd-type behavior probably makes it hard for him to do anything that is not scheduled...change is undesirable to him as a default. He's comfortable with how things are now. Shake it up and make him uncomfortable so he may be forced to face his fears and change. It appears as though he and I are against a brick wall right now. He's at his house demanding sex and I'm not running to him and he's not coming here. I'm telling him Im hurt and not feeling amourous and he tells me Im using sex as a weapon. I forgot to mention earlier that he has a voracious sexual appetite, and a wild side (even moreso than mine) and he seems to not think straight when deprived. Having said that, he still doesn't want to live together. You are dead-on about his need for schedule. Its actually bizarre, yet his need isn't unbearable. But man, he's precise, thorough, and diabolical in every move he makes. That is definitely how he became so successful at his job. He's analytical and quick. I think ush has definitely come to shove, here, today. Nobody's budging and I feel he's going to let go and not "come to the party". What do you think the odds are that he would have a change of heart (at mere months away from his 50th birthday) after walking away and realize his issues and try to conquer them and come back to me? Link to post Share on other sites
Author bbksbabydove Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 Seems like he's happy with things the way they are. And he knows himself enough to realize he wouldn't be happy living with you or seeing you every day. In some ways once a week isn't that bad, especially since he spoils you, gives you attention, is faithful, is available on the phone, etc. By making sure he gets plenty of time apart, maybe he is keeping the passion alive. But if you feel disappointed and cheated out of the life you want, you need to be honest with yourself and with him. Just be aware that if he married and lived with you, it probably would not be the utopia you're imagining because he would then be the one feeling resentful. Oh no, it's not utopia that I see or feel. Its just love & affection; togetherness & closeness. A family feel. If we lived together and he became resentful, then I guess we'd know and try to change that feeling. But, nothing ventured - nothing gained. And as far as keeping the distance in order to keep the passion alive: that was the case for the first few years, but at this late date the distance is actually tearing down the passion. Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 What do you think the odds are that he would have a change of heart (at mere months away from his 50th birthday) after walking away and realize his issues and try to conquer them and come back to me? The thing is, he has a mental issue. You can't just 'forget' about that and turn into a normal person, no matter how much you may want to. IIWY, I'd be running for the hills because this man sounds dangerous. He hasn't had to be so far because you've played his game, exactly down to the nth degree. Be careful. btw, even if he DID agree to move in with you, he would destroy you for it. Because he would make YOU the cause of his distress. Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 You also should look up his old wife and talk to her. Link to post Share on other sites
NoMagicBullet Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I'm sorry, bbksbabydove, but you are in an arrangment. With the exception of him telling you he loves you, you've been in a friends with benefits situation for 7 years. Those situations... they are usually less about the "friends" part than they are about one of the parties getting all the "benefits" they want. He's accusing you of using sex as a weapon, and demanding you come over and service him? I think he's showing his true colors now: he wants sex when he wants it, and he will not otherwise rearrange his life to accomodate a real relationship. The vacations and gifts and the engagement were all a way for him to keep you where he wanted you -- in his bed when he wanted. Maybe he does love you, but not as much as he loves himself and they way he has his life set up. He isn't going to change. Do you really want this? If not, you need to end it. At the very least, do not accept any more gifts from him until you have made a decision. Link to post Share on other sites
NoMagicBullet Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 ... But man, he's precise, thorough, and diabolical in every move he makes. Manipulators are that way. I don't know the entire situation, but of the little I do know... he sounds like a manipulator. ... What do you think the odds are that he would have a change of heart (at mere months away from his 50th birthday) after walking away and realize his issues and try to conquer them and come back to me? I think the odds are better that you'll win a multimillion-dollar lottery without a ticket. It's been 7 years; if he cared about your happiness and having you in his life, you'd already be married and living together. He's not a guy in his 20s still trying to figure out what he wants -- he's turning 50, and he wants things to stay the way they are. What he will do after the break-up is search out another woman to fill the same role you did -- provide him with sex and whatever companionship he desires when he wants it, with no real future together. Now, don't start thinking about another woman getting him, because that does you no good. Instead, think about whether you want to be the woman he keeps stringing along. Not part of his life, just an accessory, like a wallet or a car or a briefcase. "Not ready", especially after 7 years = "Never ready". Do you really want to be that woman? Sorry to be harsh. I know it's not what you want to hear, but what you want hasn't happened and isn't going to happen with this man. Link to post Share on other sites
florence of suburbia Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Oh no, it's not utopia that I see or feel. Its just love & affection; togetherness & closeness. A family feel. But he doesn't want togetherness. That's why he won't agree to it. Link to post Share on other sites
jassica Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Hmmmmmmmmm I think Link to post Share on other sites
Chunky Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 If it hasn't happened within 7 years it's never going to happen. Sorry to say. I thing that he "proposed" just so you'd think he wants you and so you'd buy his excuse of waiting, because you thought he would eventually marry you. Move on! Link to post Share on other sites
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