xxoo Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 There is no real value in your lusting. Lust is a fleeting, intoxicating pleasure that is void of love and selfish in nature. It can be dangerous to people's health and well being. I can try cocaine every once and a while to feel a rush and a high. Does that make me a druggie? Does doing it every once and a while make it healthy and less dangerous? Since I only do it once and a while and it gives me such a good high, does cocaine then have great value? I would argue that cocaine is a dangerous substance and playing with it once and a while can cause unforeseen damages now and down the road. I feel the same about lust. I see lust more like Godiva Chocolate Cheesecake. It is pure pleasure in small portions, but dangerous to my health in overindulgence. I could live without it (or like indulgences) happily and healthfully, but small indulgences brighten and sweeten life. Indulging in lust unhealthfully is a problem, but not lust itself.
Author starryeyed12 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) Lust is never empty and depends on the person if its selfish or not.... a baby gave its first lusty cry .....a warriors call to the brightness of the lights that beckoned him to imprint his birth onto his mothers heart a permanent reminder to a new mother a celebration of love and life was heard through that single lusty cry..... ......doesnt sound selfish to me or empty.....the cup is full and it feeds the mother the father the nurses the doctors who can breath now that lusty cry is done.... ....its all in context and all positive.... You can have lust for life.....i have lust for laughter......i have lust for love life and laughter......lust is a deep rooted emotion that is complex and can be used in many contexts..... lust can be positive or negative, ...the negative concept is determined by people and selfishness is determined by the individual and what they have a lust for......lust shouldnt have a bad rap sheet .....people are the ones who decide to be negative......you know what monty python would sing....here's cheers to monty........gotta love the python such a lust for oddball goofy movies...... Thanks for the reply. Again I just don't agree. In my view lust has no positive value. It corrodes love, passion, sexuality, etc. In my first post I mentioned a situation that I think many can agree is an example of people acting in part out of lust and it destroying love-- adultery. Lust is a temptation that is all around us. People are the ones who decide whether to act in lust. You can be passionate and express your human sexuality in healthy ways that do not corrode love. That will vary from relationship to relationship. But one thing that doesn't vary is that a healthy relationship seeking real love is void of lust. Lusting after someone other than your partner does not bring value to your relationship or your life IF real love is what you are seeking. The cheesecake can taste decadent, the cocaine can make you feel like a rock star-- but it can also make you fat and feed into low self esteem, the cocaine can cause addiction or even death. I'm not telling anyone that they have to give up their lusty lifestyles. To each his own. But I firmly believe that when you play with lust you play with fire. And you know what they say about people who continually play with fire. Ultimately, lust is corrosive to love. It chips away and destroys love. This is a message not often heard in our society. A lesson people learn the hard way. Edited July 19, 2012 by starryeyed12
Got it Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 What is the difference between passion and lust? What is the definition of each? It seems that you are taking things out of context and twisting meanings to come up with your conclusion, a backing out to get to your point. Lust is just that, lust. How it is used or acted upon is where it can be "right" or "wrong".
xxoo Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 The cheesecake can taste decadent, the cocaine can make you feel like a rock star-- but it can also make you fat and feed into low self esteem, the cocaine can cause addiction or even death. Big difference between cheesecake and cocaine. Which one is lust more like? Don't tell me there is no value to cheesecake!
Author starryeyed12 Posted July 20, 2012 Author Posted July 20, 2012 What is the difference between passion and lust? What is the definition of each? It seems that you are taking things out of context and twisting meanings to come up with your conclusion, a backing out to get to your point. Lust is just that, lust. How it is used or acted upon is where it can be "right" or "wrong". For clarity on my definition of lust and passion please reread my previous posts-- starting from the beginning. Let me know if you're interested in further discussion on clarity after that. I'll try my best to articulate it to you in another way. Have a great night!
Author starryeyed12 Posted July 20, 2012 Author Posted July 20, 2012 Big difference between cheesecake and cocaine. Which one is lust more like? Don't tell me there is no value to cheesecake! Mmm cheesecake... I was just trying to draw an analogy based on the fact that when overindulged serious consequences can arise. Weak though, I agree. Maybe I'll be able to come up with something stronger to make my point more obvious.
Author starryeyed12 Posted July 20, 2012 Author Posted July 20, 2012 Man, op has WAY too much time on her hands! Indeed. I've got time and a positive message! You are enough just as you are!
xxoo Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) Here is one benefit of lust in my long term relationship: We've been married many years, are deeply in love, great sex. After many years, the urgency for sex comes and goes for me, and also for him, to a point. Any lust I experience, from any source (person IRL, celeb, etc) injects fresh sexual energy in my marital bed. We understand it and intentionally use it in this way (for example, he'll rent a movie knowing it will heat me up, and make me attack him ). That injection of sexual energy carries forward, leading us to generate our own renewed sexual energy, turning around a sexual slump and putting us back in a place of "can't take our hands off each other" for weeks. Our love continues to grow deeper, over 20 years now. So I do not believe that lust and love are simply incompatible. Edited July 20, 2012 by xxoo 1
Ross MwcFan Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 starryeyed, what do you mean by lust being 'empty'?
BetheButterfly Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 I had a revelation tonight. I've thought about this issue for years now, and gone back and forth in my views. But I feel incredibly certain tonight in way I never have before. Even though I feel like I have been a hypocrite at times and like, "who am I to share this," I feel compelled. So here it goes. Lust destroys love. I disagree because I lust after (or sexually desire) my husband, before we grew to love each other until now, and i hope I always lust (sexually desire) him. I do agree that lust in the definition of sexually desiring what one has promised not to (as in the case of adultery) can and in many cases helps destroy the love between a couple who has promised faithfulness to each other. The most obvious examples of this would be the lust found in adultery and the damage done to self and others. We've all heard the stories and seen the shows. The reasons behind this example can be endless, but nonetheless, it's an example of lust destroying love that most people can agree on. Good point The more tricky example is porn. Is it okay or isn't it? Is it lust or just sexuality? I would argue it is most often lust. I agree with you that lust when related to watching porn (other people not oneself, having sex) is indeed not ok for people who believe in God and His guidelines (commands) concerning sex. The reason I personally believe this is because 1. In my belief, God has guidelines for sex in order to protect people. 2. Porn is often people who specifically do not follow those guidelines or care about them. 3. Watching other people have sex outside of God's guidelines is not "ok", anymore than going outside of God's guidelines, in my belief. While I can't judge other people, I can most definitely make sure I strive to follow God's guidelines, and yes lust or watching porn is considered going or approving of going outside of them. The Catholic church lists lust as one of the seven mostly deadly sins. I'm starting to understand why. It is because lust is powerful. It destroys love and our ability to truly love ourself and others. Agreed, though I'm not Catholic, but I agree with the Catholic church in this respect. The world we live in today is full of lust and people telling us that's okay. With porn, we are lusting after the bodies of another for selfish pleasure. It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt, including the user. Agreed When in a monogamous sexual relationship, the lust driven world we live in today sends the message, "I am not enough." I cannot provide the variety and pleasure to have my partner resist the temptation of lust. No one man or woman could ever be enough when the variety of porn is so readily available and free for use. I guess that's the world we live in and I have to suck it up and accept that. It doesn't make me feel special or beautiful or loved. But what can I do? Lust is too powerful that most people cannot resist in the world we live in today. I don't think you have to "suck it up." There are people who believe porn is wrong and who strive to not look at it, based on their personal convictions. Though they are in the minority, it is possible to fall in love with a person who shares that conviction. Lust is a loss of control. It's something most people can't resist because it takes discipline. Discipline most don't feel they should have to learn and practice because why should they when its so easy to access and so seemingly harmless? But it is not harmless. Lust destroys love. Real love has no room for lust. Lust feels good and is easy, but real love is a feeling matched by no other. The work love involves, the discipline-- it makes people better, stronger, happier, more generous and kind. Love's message is, "I am enough." When I start to believe that I am enough, I start to feel the power of real love. *When you start to treat people as though they are enough, you open the door to real love for yourself and others. Porn is lust and lust destroys love. If you want to experience real love then you have to practice the discipline of controlling lust. I agree with you. However, please note that other people will not agree, because they don't see porn or lust as being immoral. What is important then is for you to find a person who shares your convictions, as your partner. My husband does not look at porn. He is not interested in it. He does lust after me (sexual desire) and I am glad. I lust (sexual desire) after him. We don't need porn. We don't need to watch other people having sex or have sex with other people in order to be sexually satisfied. We are happy with each other and get immense pleasure from our sexual connection, as well as our spiritual and mental and emotional connections. You can find a partner like that too. My Dad, by the way, gave up his porn addiction (which he got hooked on way before meeting my Mom) because he loves God and my Mom. My Mom was very hurt when she found out about his addiction, and he strove to become free from it. Also, he became convinced that the ladies in porn are actually the daughters of other men, and he would not like his daughters to be lusted after by guys and be treated as sexual objects. So, there are guys who don't have an issue with lusting (either in porn or in affairs) and there are guys who have an issue who strive to get free from it. Again, there are more guys nowadays who see porn as fine and lust after other people as fine, but there are still guys who don't.
KungFuJoe Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Loss of control is a GOOD thing...but ONLY if it's with someone you trust. Anything in life can be good or bad. It's the great dichotomy! Even something as "good" as love can be bad. If someone abuses you and you still love them, that love is actually hurting you.
Author starryeyed12 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Loss of control is a GOOD thing...but ONLY if it's with someone you trust. Anything in life can be good or bad. It's the great dichotomy! Even something as "good" as love can be bad. If someone abuses you and you still love them, that love is actually hurting you. It's the great dichotomy AND struggle in my view. As jk rowling put it, "the struggle between what is right and what is easy." It's easy to turn to lust and porn when in a dry spell w a SO. It doesnt make it right in my book, but easy no doubt. It can put you in a very dangerous spot. For many it's tempting your fate for a selfish high. It has no value. The value comes from healthy sexual desire for and from your SO. That is not lust. And I'm sorry to disagree, but if someone is hurting you, thats not love that makes you stay with him/her. It's along the lines of codependence and fear. I would know bc I stayed in a God awful relationship for years telling myself it was love keeping me there, but I can assure you now ot wasn't. There was love at a point, but it was destroyed by many things, one being his lust for other women ( though he never physically cheated). Edited July 21, 2012 by starryeyed12
Author starryeyed12 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Posted July 21, 2012 I disagree because I lust after (or sexually desire) my husband, before we grew to love each other until now, and i hope I always lust (sexually desire) him. I do agree that lust in the definition of sexually desiring what one has promised not to (as in the case of adultery) can and in many cases helps destroy the love between a couple who has promised faithfulness to each other. Good point I agree with you that lust when related to watching porn (other people not oneself, having sex) is indeed not ok for people who believe in God and His guidelines (commands) concerning sex. The reason I personally believe this is because 1. In my belief, God has guidelines for sex in order to protect people. 2. Porn is often people who specifically do not follow those guidelines or care about them. 3. Watching other people have sex outside of God's guidelines is not "ok", anymore than going outside of God's guidelines, in my belief. While I can't judge other people, I can most definitely make sure I strive to follow God's guidelines, and yes lust or watching porn is considered going or approving of going outside of them. Agreed, though I'm not Catholic, but I agree with the Catholic church in this respect. Agreed I don't think you have to "suck it up." There are people who believe porn is wrong and who strive to not look at it, based on their personal convictions. Though they are in the minority, it is possible to fall in love with a person who shares that conviction. I agree with you. However, please note that other people will not agree, because they don't see porn or lust as being immoral. What is important then is for you to find a person who shares your convictions, as your partner. My husband does not look at porn. He is not interested in it. He does lust after me (sexual desire) and I am glad. I lust (sexual desire) after him. We don't need porn. We don't need to watch other people having sex or have sex with other people in order to be sexually satisfied. We are happy with each other and get immense pleasure from our sexual connection, as well as our spiritual and mental and emotional connections. You can find a partner like that too. My Dad, by the way, gave up his porn addiction (which he got hooked on way before meeting my Mom) because he loves God and my Mom. My Mom was very hurt when she found out about his addiction, and he strove to become free from it. Also, he became convinced that the ladies in porn are actually the daughters of other men, and he would not like his daughters to be lusted after by guys and be treated as sexual objects. So, there are guys who don't have an issue with lusting (either in porn or in affairs) and there are guys who have an issue who strive to get free from it. Again, there are more guys nowadays who see porn as fine and lust after other people as fine, but there are still guys who don't. Thank you so much for your post! It was great. It gives me hope. And this thread is all about hope and love. One thing I wanted to point out is that I don't think what you and your husband have is lust at all. It sounds like real, honest, hardworking love and desire. How refreshing! And what a gift for you both.
Author starryeyed12 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Posted July 21, 2012 starryeyed, what do you mean by lust being 'empty'? Lust doesn't leave you feeling special, whole, beautiful, fulfilled, like you are enough as you are, like you are a good person, moral, and selfless. Love feels those things. Lust is a shallow high, it leaves you temporarily out of your truest senses. It's degrading,dangerous, harmful to your body, mind and spirit. Its corrosive to love. You'll know lust in the quiet of your own mind. When you're alone with yourself. If even only for a brief moment you allow your mind to see and feel lusts consequences, it does not feel happy. It's a dark feeling. Often people can't handle the true effects of lust ( and other negative emotions/actions) so they mask it with drugs, alcohol, lies.
Got it Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Lust doesn't leave you feeling special, whole, beautiful, fulfilled, like you are enough as you are, like you are a good person, moral, and selfless. Love feels those things. Lust is a shallow high, it leaves you temporarily out of your truest senses. It's degrading,dangerous, harmful to your body, mind and spirit. Its corrosive to love. You'll know lust in the quiet of your own mind. When you're alone with yourself. If even only for a brief moment you allow your mind to see and feel lusts consequences, it does not feel happy. It's a dark feeling. Often people can't handle the true effects of lust ( and other negative emotions/actions) so they mask it with drugs, alcohol, lies. I asked the difference because having read what you posted I still can't figure out what you think the definition of each is. I also feel the above is HIGHLY subjective and very personalized. There are things that can make me feel the positives above but others can say that they are morally wrong. Who is right and who is wrong? Religion says that being gay is wrong. But there are many individuals that are very much in love and gay and do not feel that they are wrong. So who decides that it is lust, who decides if its passion and who decides if it is love?
Author starryeyed12 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Posted July 21, 2012 I asked the difference because having read what you posted I still can't figure out what you think the definition of each is. I also feel the above is HIGHLY subjective and very personalized. There are things that can make me feel the positives above but others can say that they are morally wrong. Who is right and who is wrong? Religion says that being gay is wrong. But there are many individuals that are very much in love and gay and do not feel that they are wrong. So who decides that it is lust, who decides if its passion and who decides if it is love? Your truest senses, your conscience.
Author starryeyed12 Posted July 22, 2012 Author Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) You're entitled to your opinion, but the way I see it, your statement is unhealthy, twisted, and warped. Things that don't leave me feeling good about myself and others are generally things that I try not to continue doing. I try to do and say things that are positive to myself and others. Challenges, work, discipline, compromise are blessings. Just because its not easy doesn't make it bad. And when I achieve those things in love and relationships (since that's what we're talking about, but it could apply to other areas) it makes me feel those things I mentioned above. Thanks for the response, nonetheless, and good luck to you in life and love. LOL. I am sorry. While I respect everyones opinion, I will admit this was my first response when I read your message. I do not know if your topic is about lust, love, adultery, or the catholic church. Lust is a natural human component. Scientists have a more neutral term, it is known as Human Sexuality. Lust does not drive you to feel inadedquate, it is the fact that you are inadeaute which makes you feel inadeaquate (I dont know if you will understand this, but I will explain if you do not). It is never a love vs lust scenario. Love and lust is crucial for any healthy relationship. I would like to be in a relationship with a woman I love and lust after. I love my mother, but I do not lust after her. Lust is vital for any relationship. Me personally I find that human beings are not that special. When in doubt I look at our fellow brethen in the animal kingdom and by studying them I know that lust and love are natural, pleasureable, and good. Oh, wow. So much I disagree with in this post. Where to start... First off, I am baffled- BAFFLED by how you came to the belief that human beings are not that special. By almost every measure we are unique, advanced, and unbelievably amazing. Your body is an awesome instrument. I challenge you to read a book or watch a program on the complexities of the human brain. Just that one area alone is such a gift and seriously awe inspiring how adaptable, intricate, complex, pliable, mysterous- just wow! There's nothing else like it on Earth. We are an advanced species and have evolved very much beyond our common ancestor-- the chimpansee. And we continue to evolve. I'm glad you don't sexually desire your mother. Please read my definitions on lust, passion, and desire. The dictionary does not make the distinctions that I make with lust and passion and desire. So read up and keep up! Have a great day and honestly take up my challenge. Educate yourself on how special, unique, and powerful our human bodies are. We are quite different from our animal friends. Take care of yourself. Edited July 22, 2012 by starryeyed12
Got it Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 Your truest senses, your conscience. Again, what does that mean? What is a "truest senses"? How do you quantify that? How is it measured? Your conscience? Okay. Well someone's conscience may not tell them they are guilty while watching porn. They deep dive themselves and they see nothing more than idle past time. Who is right and who is wrong? Who decides that sexuality is wrong? You are arguing moral constraint as some free standing, independent universal belief that all humans share. And that is not the case. The best and simplest approach is following the Golden Rule and even there it is up for subjectivity based on the person. Okay, I am a vegetarian. I believe the eating of other animals is wrong, unevolved, and unhealthy. My conscience tells me that it is wrong for me to consume another living animal for me to eat lunch. That is what I believe and what I have practiced for decades. Now is that saying eating meat is immoral for all? No. I fully understand and know that it is a practice for myself that I feel is right for me. While I do not believe we should eat animals I fully accept that others do not feel this way. It gives me peace to live my life this way but is not my place to condemn of others. So same goes for your version of lust. Like the other poster, lust is human sexuality. Nothing more nothing less. It is what you do with it, if you cross your own personal boundaries that will cause you to feel an unsettled conscience. But this is subjective and is not universal. Many cultures have different beliefs and practices in regards to human sexuality and in one culture one practice is an acceptable mores, in another, not. Unless you can use empirical evidence, to quantify your hypothesis it stands to reason it isn't true outside of religion. It is a subjective, personal moral belief.
Radu Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 Lust doesn't kill love, lust is just a tool to be used. Like all tools, it depends on the maturity of who is using it. The defense of 'your honour, the gun killed my wife ... not me' has hardly worked so far.
Author starryeyed12 Posted July 22, 2012 Author Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) But what I am talking about is lust. I have dirty, dirty thoughts about Clint Eastwood's character when watching him act tough, esp if he is defending a woman :::swoon::::. In terms of my long term relationship, it helps to remind my that there is a tigress in there, and how good it feels to get really revved up (makes me feel alive!), and motivates me to get revved up with my partner. Are those thoughts and sparks any more or less acceptable if there is graphic sexual content? How and why? xxoo, in order for me to answer your questions from my perspective I would have to ask you some very personal questions, which would require naked (ha!) honesty and truth. It could make you angry, defensive, annoyed, and maybe even hurt to share these things and hear what I have to say. I obviously can't know for sure if you would be honest OR if you would even react these ways, but I'm saying I could see it happen. Do you really want to go there? Edited July 22, 2012 by starryeyed12
xxoo Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 xxoo, in order for me to answer your questions from my perspective I would have to ask you some very personal questions, which would require naked (ha!) honesty and truth. It could make you angry, defensive, annoyed, and maybe even hurt to share these things and hear what I have to say. I obviously can't know for sure if you would be honest OR if you would even react these ways, but I'm saying I could see it happen. Do you really want to go there? While there are limits to what I will answer or share online, I am not averse to naked truth and honesty. That's pretty much my relationship style
Forever Silent Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) Oh, wow. So much I disagree with in this post. Where to start... First off, I am baffled- BAFFLED by how you came to the belief that human beings are not that special. By almost every measure we are unique, advanced, and unbelievably amazing. Your body is an awesome instrument. I challenge you to read a book or watch a program on the complexities of the human brain. Just that one area alone is such a gift and seriously awe inspiring how adaptable, intricate, complex, pliable, mysterous- just wow! There's nothing else like it on Earth. We are an advanced species and have evolved very much beyond our common ancestor-- the chimpansee. And we continue to evolve. I'm glad you don't sexually desire your mother. Please read my definitions on lust, passion, and desire. The dictionary does not make the distinctions that I make with lust and passion and desire. So read up and keep up! Have a great day and honestly take up my challenge. Educate yourself on how special, unique, and powerful our human bodies are. We are quite different from our animal friends. Take care of yourself. 1. You can exaggerate the humans to the extent of gods if you would like, but it still does not change that humans are not that special. Most higher primates perform actions that resmble human behavior. Humans act in ways that pattern animal behaviors. We as humans are part of the earth's cycle. We will eat just as animals do, reproduce as animals do, age as animals do, and then die as do animals. 2. Your distinction of lust, passion, and love is null and void. Just because you think passion is not lust does not make it so. Things like websters dictionary and wikipedia help provide an objective foundation for arguments. For instance if you were to say passion is not lust, and lust is not passion, and I were to say passion is lust, and lust is passion then in order for us to move foward with the argument we would need objective sources to paint clearer pictures of our arguments. 3. Also, I have eductated myself, and the conclusion I came to was that humans beings are similar to animals. By knowing this, I am able to recongnize my actions as normal, and seek to learn how they can be used in a postive direction. Futhermore, I propose that lust is not the destroyer of love, but the lack of communication between patners is TRUE destroyer of love. Edited July 22, 2012 by Forever Silent
Got it Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 To me, your argument about the vegetarianism is weak. See the bolded statements above. You said "I believe the eating of other animals is wrong, unevolved, and unhealthy." Sounds like you made a judgement about eating animals and its not a very positive one. Yet you go on to say, "While I do not believe we should eat animals I fully accept that others do not feel this way." So, now you're saying you believe the eating of animals is wrong, unevolved, and unhealthy, but go on people....be unhealthy, unevolved and wrong and I'll just keep my mouth shut and not share the fact that, in my head, I believe you are all unhealthy, wrong, and unevolved!!! If you believed in vegetarianism the way I believe in this issue you would fight for it. Not all causes are worth fighting for. Not all messages. But I believe that the world we live in doesn't talk enough about the differences between healthy sexuality and lust. And I believe that lust destroys love. I also feel that at some point in your life you have to take a stand for what you believe in or you will fall for anything. I have taken my stand and I believe it in. Just as you believe in vegetarianism. P.S. Loveshack is a testament to the destructive power of lust on love and relationships. Take your pick of boards and threads on the matter. We are living proof. Why on earth would my view on eating meat not be a positive one? What is negative about it? And why don't I inflict my beliefs on others? Because I am not egotistical enough to believe that may way is the only right way. That just because it is my own moral code does not mean that I know what is best for others. I am not arrogant to believe I know how others should run their lives. I take a stand on what I believe by living it every day of my life. I do not get on a proverbial soapbox and preach to others about how they should run their lives as if I know best. As a humble person, I do the best I can, by the beliefs I have for myself, and try and live in that light. 2
Author starryeyed12 Posted July 22, 2012 Author Posted July 22, 2012 1. You can exaggerate the humans to the extent of gods if you would like, but it still does not change that humans are not that special. Most higher primates perform actions that resmble human behavior. Humans act in ways that pattern animal behaviors. We as humans are part of the earth's cycle. We will eat just as animals do, reproduce as animals do, age as animals do, and then die as do animals. 2. Your distinction of lust, passion, and love is null and void. Just because you think passion is not lust does not make it so. Things like websters dictionary and wikipedia help provide an objective foundation for arguments. For instance if you were to say passion is not lust, and lust is not passion, and I were to say passion is lust, and lust is passion then in order for us to move foward with the argument we would need objective sources to paint clearer pictures of our arguments. 3. Also, I have eductated myself, and the conclusion I came to was that humans beings are similar to animals. By knowing this, I am able to recongnize my actions as normal, and seek to learn how they can be used in a postive direction. Futhermore, I propose that lust is not the destroyer of love, but the lack of communication between patners is TRUE destroyer of love. You're number 1 is complete CRAP. I never said anything of the "gods," but I do find it quite hilarious how many people keep bringing it up. Humans are the superior species on this Earth. Period. The fact that you and I can have this debate through cyber space created by humans is evidence number 20584905849 that we are far superior than our animal friends. I am ALL about respecting other forms of life and species and the Earth. Do not twist my words. I'm not going to waste anymore energy on responding to your posts if you aren't going to add anything useful to my thread. Number3- We are the superior species and we don't have to act like "animals" in the sense that you are talking. I get urges. Sometimes I get so angry I want to punch a person in the face. I restrain this urge. I can rationalize that I could have charges pressed against me and that violence is the proper solution. The only thing I like about your post is your last line. Now you're talking. We can finally agree that communication is vital to love and relationships.
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