Questions for Buddhists

[RickyLovesLucy]

No, you are not mistaken, although Hinayana is generally taken to be a perjorative term - although i don't personally take offence, because in the end, it's all just 'labels'...

OK, thanks. It may offend others, so I'll drop the term.

 

 

C.S.Lewis "would" say....?

 

Do you mean he did say it, or that you're putting words into his mouth?

Might I say therefore that C. S. Lewis 'would' also say that the Pali and Sanskrit texts referring to the Buddha's teachings precede Biblical Christian scripture by around 500 years or more, and that therefore "The complete truth, in the sense of being God's revelation in the person of Jesus Christ" are actually echoes of previous religious/spiritual instruction?

So, I only know of one thing C.S. Lewis actually wrote on the topic of other religions. In Mere Christianity, he said

And what did God do? First of all He left us conscience, the sense of right and wrong: and all through history there have been people trying (some of them very hard) to obey it. None of them ever quite succeeded. Secondly, He sent the human race what I call good dreams: I mean those queer stories scattered all through the heathen religions about a god who dies and comes to life again and, by his death, has somehow given new life to men.

Not quite applicable to Buddhism, and I would hasten to add that the word "heathen" is being used by a Brit talking to other Brits in 1947.

 

He also spoke of reality as an "anesthetic fog", which at least alludes to the transitory nature of those things that seem permanent.

 

TM, are you familiar with the Fire Sermon? I recall it's being seminal in the Buddha's teaching about attachment but I really can't recall much more than that.

[BetheButterfly]

Hi Mercy!

 

I'm sorry! I didn't see your post till today!

 

 

awww I feel the same way lass! Blessed is what my life is when people like you enter it. There lies the beauty of God's love for us.

 

Amen!

Here is today's Bowl of Saki -

 

Every blow in life pierces the heart and awakens our feelings to sympathize with others; and every swing of comfort lulls us to sleep, and we become unaware of all. Bowl of Saki, July 20, by Hazrat Inayat Khan

 

That's powerfully true.

[TaraMaiden]

OK, thanks. It may offend others, so I'll drop the term.[/quote

ok, but not on my account...

 

 

 

So, I only know of one thing C.S. Lewis actually wrote on the topic of other religions. In Mere Christianity, he said

And what did God do? First of all He left us conscience, the sense of right and wrong: and all through history there have been people trying (some of them very hard) to obey it. None of them ever quite succeeded. Secondly, He sent the human race what I call good dreams: I mean those queer stories scattered all through the heathen religions about a god who dies and comes to life again and, by his death, has somehow given new life to men.

Not quite applicable to Buddhism, and I would hasten to add that the word "heathen" is being used by a Brit talking to other Brits in 1947.

Yes, language was far more liberal, and less 'politically correct' then - !

 

Another quotation from C.S.Lewis, which i think is quite mind-blowing, is -

 

"You don't have a soul.

you have a Body.

You ARE a soul."

 

which reminds me of a discussion Gary Zukav was having with Oprah Winfrey, on the subject of his excellent book, "The Seat of the Soul", when she asked him about the whereabouts of the soul because when speaking about themselves, they point to their chest...

"I mean," she continued, "where does it live, where does it reside... where is it...?!"

 

To which he replied,

 

"Well, let me ask you this: Where is it NOT?"

 

He also spoke of reality as an "anesthetic fog", which at least alludes to the transitory nature of those things that seem permanent.

 

TM, are you familiar with the Fire Sermon? I recall it's being seminal in the Buddha's teaching about attachment but I really can't recall much more than that.

 

Oh yes, I'm very familiar with it....

It's an extremely powerful sermon, but should be taken in context with earlier, more simple teachings: As his simsapa sutta explains, his teachings are numerous - but may not be conducive to awakening; in fact, some things and matters may be a hindrance.........

[BetheButterfly]

I think any person we consider teacher, helps us to grow and if we follow their example, then we abide by, and contribute to, the message of good will and compassion for other beings.

The core value of worship or devotion, is to transcend selfishness and develop altruism.

 

Hi TaraMaiden!

 

I'm sorry; I didn't see your post till today. I agree with the above, except for I also think that with the case of people worshiping and or being devoted to God or gods, that there is also the desire to please the Superior Being. For example, Jesus taught obedience and thankfulness (gratitude) and worship to the Heavenly Father which his (Jesus') followers are to follow as well. I guess that is indeed transcending selfishness, which is something that I hadn't thought about before... wanting to please another Being other than just oneself is a selfless act in a way. However, there is also the selfish desire for believers in God to be awarded, protected, provided for, healed, and blessed as well, which is quite selfish, come to think of it. I need to meditate on this more.

 

The Buddha existed a full 500 years before Christ. There are even some theories that Jesus, during his "intermediate" years, may well have chosen to travel extensively and learn about matters outside his home territory. Much of what he teaches, can be found in the Buddha's teachings too. But this is a point for other discussion, and I'm really not seeking to either confront or argue. I'm merely illustrating what some theories have tabled as a possibility.

Oh I understand you are not seeking to confront or argue. I think it's cool to discuss different things. I wonder if teachings like Buddha's teachings had traveled to the Middle East as well? That is possible I suppose. There might have been Buddhists who traveled the world? I don't think that Jesus actually went to India or to Oriental countries, but I don't know.

 

I think some truths are universal, that many people can "discover" them without having learned them from another person. For example, people all around the world who had not been brought up in pacifist homes/communities can learn to live in peace with others, even if they have not been taught it.

 

 

Quite. It's not always the map that matters, it's the journey...

I like that quote.

 

 

Let me just say that Buddhism is in one particular and specific way, a very simple calling to follow: because Buddhists do not subscribe to the existence of an eternal, omnipotent and all-powerful God - the teachings can be universally implemented into your own personal daily practice, without compromising them, or influencing them adversely. You can incorporate any Buddhist teaching, and find that rather than contradicting anything you yourself adhere to, it will actually underpin it, support it and add value and strength to it.

Are there Buddhists who do believe in the existence of an eternal, omnipotent God? If so, can Buddhists teachings support their practice?

Remember that practice is different to tradition or ritual.

Not all that is found in Buddhism is of Buddha-origin.

That is a bit confusing. Is practice then active beliefs?

 

To give you an example, there are some schools of Buddhism which actively discourage homosexuality, and consider it to be unskillful. Other schools merely state that we should avoid sexual misconduct - but do not specify or single out any specific type.

There is nothing anywhere in the Pali canon that condemns or criticises homosexuality, and neither has it been found anywhere, that the Buddha condemned it.

 

Just as an example.

That's interesting. Why do they say to avoid sexual misconduct? Just curious, since many beliefs in One God (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam particularly) believe that sexual misconduct/immorality is wrong because God says so. In my particular believe, Christians believe God made rules to protect people, so the reason God says no to sexual misconduct/immorality is because it hurts people.

 

Thanks for the interesting and educational discussion!

[TaraMaiden]

Hi TaraMaiden!

..... I guess that is indeed transcending selfishness, which is something that I hadn't thought about before... wanting to please another Being other than just oneself is a selfless act in a way. However, there is also the selfish desire for believers in God to be awarded, protected, provided for, healed, and blessed as well, which is quite selfish, come to think of it. I need to meditate on this more.

 

That is for you to examine. I couldn't possibly comment.

 

Oh I understand you are not seeking to confront or argue. I think it's cool to discuss different things. I wonder if teachings like Buddha's teachings had traveled to the Middle East as well? That is possible I suppose. There might have been Buddhists who traveled the world? I don't think that Jesus actually went to India or to Oriental countries, but I don't know.

i think being open to possibilities is important, but one must decide what is fruitful and nourishing, and what isn't. I am given to wondering why the time between Jesus' 12th and 30th years is not mentioned in the Bible; one would have thought that he might have spent time ministering, and being a teacher and mentor to those around him... who knows? There is much one could speculate - but that all it is really - speculation.

 

I think some truths are universal, that many people can "discover" them without having learned them from another person. For example, people all around the world who had not been brought up in pacifist homes/communities can learn to live in peace with others, even if they have not been taught it.

But there must be an impulse, a trigger, some example of doing things a different way.... a person who is subject to violence, knows nothing else and is led to believe that violent means are the only means, is going to be hard -put to changing their thinking, and their ways, unless something crashes into their consciousness, and illustrates an alternative....

what, for example (and I am NOT suggesting it is a better alternative for you, at all!) led you to explore Buddhism?

 

Are there Buddhists who do believe in the existence of an eternal, omnipotent God? If so, can Buddhists teachings support their practice?

No, not really.

In the Mahayana tradition, there are other 'Buddhas' and Gods who personify and represent specific qualities, virtues or processes, but as far as Buddhism is concerned, they are not omnipotent, and have a finite life. They are considered to be instruments of Instruction and Example, rather than to have the same Image that God has to Christians.

Theravada also has personifications of specific characteristics, and these too, are there to fulfil certain symbolic functions....

 

 

That is a bit confusing. Is practice then active beliefs?

I'm not sure I understand your question....

 

That's interesting. Why do they say to avoid sexual misconduct? Just curious, since many beliefs in One God (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam particularly) believe that sexual misconduct/immorality is wrong because God says so. In my particular believe, Christians believe God made rules to protect people, so the reason God says no to sexual misconduct/immorality is because it hurts people.

 

This is what Buddhism instructs, specifically, to be 'Sexual Misconduct':

 

One conducts oneself wrongly in matters of sex;

one has intercourse with those under the protection of father, mother, brother, sister, relatives or clan, or of their religious community;

or with those promised to someone else,

protected by law,

and even with those betrothed with a garland"

(Book of Tens, Anguttara Nikaya, X, 206).

 

Those 'under the protection of....' would be handicapped people, those not of a mental capacity to be able to make decisions for themselves, or those who will be or have been ordained.

Promised to someone else, are those who have had legal arrangements made for a marriage (engaged couples)

Protected by law, would be children or minors, and confined prisoners, unable to decline.

...'and even with those betrothed with a garland, are those who have simply made an unofficial promise themselves to another (those simply in a current relationship).

 

Personal interpretation would be that sexual misconduct means anything that compromises a person's free will, safety dignity and conscience.

This is broadly accepted to be a good definition for modern times, in addition to the Buddha's own clarification of the matter.

 

 

 

Thanks for the interesting and educational discussion!

 

It takes two, Beth....

[RickyLovesLucy]

No, not really.

In the Mahayana tradition, there are other 'Buddhas' and Gods who personify and represent specific qualities, virtues or processes, but as far as Buddhism is concerned, they are not omnipotent, and have a finite life. They are considered to be instruments of Instruction and Example, rather than to have the same Image that God has to Christians.

Theravada also has personifications of specific characteristics, and these too, are there to fulfil certain symbolic functions....

So, do the two traditions believe that those other Buddhas actually exist, or are they just symbols? Or do they differ in a manner similar to that of the disagreement between the RC church and some Protestant sects disagree over the meaning of the Eucharist/Communion?

[TaraMaiden]

So, do the two traditions believe that those other Buddhas actually exist, or are they just symbols? Or do they differ in a manner similar to that of the disagreement between the RC church and some Protestant sects disagree over the meaning of the Eucharist/Communion?

 

Buddhists accept that other Buddhas may have existed, and many Buddhists see some contemporaries as enlightened - but we focus primarily on "The Daddy of them all" rather similarly to the way that Christians respect the likes of St Francis of Assisi or Saint Therese of Lisieux... Those saints have a following, but more as intermediaries between those who pray to them, and God....

 

Any Buddhas referred to in the Mahayana Tradition, tend to have mystic tales woven around their existence, and have specific qualities Buddhists try to emulate. Buddhists chant, for example, the name of Tara, as a way of invoking the strength and fortitude she represents. She is not actually expected to manifest in form and weave a miracle....

 

Theravada and Mahayana both have, as their fundamental teachings, the Four Noble Truths, The Eightfold Path and The 5 Precepts. As time has worn on, different approaches, points of view, interpretations and traditions have evolved and grown, and the two Schools are now somewhat different in their different means and manner of transmission. But to say there is a division or schism between the two would be to do them both a great disservice.

 

as an example, my name is TaraMaiden - Tara is a female Buddha in the Mahayana Tradition.

but I'm primarily Theravadan.

 

but no recriminations or criticism has ever come my way for all that. From either school.

Edited August 7, 2012 by TaraMaiden

[BetheButterfly]

 

 

i think being open to possibilities is important, but one must decide what is fruitful and nourishing, and what isn't. I am given to wondering why the time between Jesus' 12th and 30th years is not mentioned in the Bible; one would have thought that he might have spent time ministering, and being a teacher and mentor to those around him... who knows? There is much one could speculate - but that all it is really - speculation.

 

True. I personally think he was learning how to be a carpenter from Joseph, but that is speculation as well. I also think some of the Jewish boys at that time studied the Tanakh and memorized it. It is possible he did that as well.

 

But there must be an impulse, a trigger, some example of doing things a different way.... a person who is subject to violence, knows nothing else and is led to believe that violent means are the only means, is going to be hard -put to changing their thinking, and their ways, unless something crashes into their consciousness, and illustrates an alternative....

 

Good point. However, maybe some think... "Why?" Why is always a good question to help look for another direction in life.

 

 

what, for example (and I am NOT suggesting it is a better alternative for you, at all!) led you to explore Buddhism?

 

Lol understood!

 

Well, I am learning about Buddhism because of you, Zengirl, and Mercy. Even though I'm not interested in becoming a Buddhist, I am interested in learning and growing in my personal journey of life. It is cool that there are many aspects of Buddhism which I admire and am learning from, which I think helps me grow!

 

It makes me so sad that many Christians have treated Zengirl badly and I think one of the reasons is a lack of understanding and appreciating diversity. Respect is very important to me and I believe it is important to respect and appreciate people who are different than oneself. I think Christians need to respect other people who are not Christians, and understand why they are not Christians. I think it's also important to understand other worldviews and respect them.

So, what leads me to explore Buddhism (and it's a continuing process) is in order to understand Buddhists in order to respect and learn from and enjoy life together with them.

 

 

No, not really.

In the Mahayana tradition, there are other 'Buddhas' and Gods who personify and represent specific qualities, virtues or processes, but as far as Buddhism is concerned, they are not omnipotent, and have a finite life. They are considered to be instruments of Instruction and Example, rather than to have the same Image that God has to Christians.

Theravada also has personifications of specific characteristics, and these too, are there to fulfil certain symbolic functions....

 

So they are more learned beings, as opposed to an Eternal Creator?

I'm not sure I understand your question....

 

Does practice in this sense mean active belief (as opposed to belief with no action behind it?) What does practice mean in this sense? Thanks

 

 

This is what Buddhism instructs, specifically, to be 'Sexual Misconduct':

 

One conducts oneself wrongly in matters of sex;

one has intercourse with those under the protection of father, mother, brother, sister, relatives or clan, or of their religious community;

or with those promised to someone else,

protected by law,

and even with those betrothed with a garland"

(Book of Tens, Anguttara Nikaya, X, 206).

 

Those 'under the protection of....' would be handicapped people, those not of a mental capacity to be able to make decisions for themselves, or those who will be or have been ordained.

Promised to someone else, are those who have had legal arrangements made for a marriage (engaged couples)

Protected by law, would be children or minors, and confined prisoners, unable to decline.

...'and even with those betrothed with a garland, are those who have simply made an unofficial promise themselves to another (those simply in a current relationship).

 

Personal interpretation would be that sexual misconduct means anything that compromises a person's free will, safety dignity and conscience.

This is broadly accepted to be a good definition for modern times, in addition to the Buddha's own clarification of the matter.

 

Understood and agreed

 

It takes two, Beth....

 

Thanks! and thanks for taking the time to educate about Buddhism!

[TaraMaiden]

 

True. I personally think he was learning how to be a carpenter from Joseph, but that is speculation as well. I also think some of the Jewish boys at that time studied the Tanakh and memorized it. It is possible he did that as well.

i think he certainly must have done this, or else he would not have had the knowledge to be able to take some aspects of it, and put forward his own opinion...

 

 

Good point. However, maybe some think... "Why?" Why is always a good question to help look for another direction in life....

 

Well, I am learning about Buddhism because of you, Zengirl, and Mercy. Even though I'm not interested in becoming a Buddhist, I am interested in learning and growing in my personal journey of life. It is cool that there are many aspects of Buddhism which I admire and am learning from, which I think helps me grow!

 

.....I think it's also important to understand other worldviews and respect them.

So, what leads me to explore Buddhism (and it's a continuing process) is in order to understand Buddhists in order to respect and learn from and enjoy life together with them.

 

that's my point. As a devout Christian, something must have come from outside of your normal "comfort zone" and alerted you to other disciplines and callings. It's a credit to you that you were willing to explore these new views with an open-minded curiosity.

while the original influence is still much in evidence, it pays to be open to other trains of thought - but one also has to be aware first, that they even exist.

 

So they are more learned beings, as opposed to an Eternal Creator?

In a way, yes. They are looked upon as divine or elevated guides, mentors and embodiments, but they are not omnipotent or eternal.

 

 

Does practice in this sense mean active belief (as opposed to belief with no action behind it?) What does practice mean in this sense? Thanks

Practice really means Putting Into Practice. The Buddha declared himself to be an ordinary man, and his main message was that he came to teach the Origin of Suffering, and the Cessation of Suffering. He dropped any kind of label, pigeon-holing him into a specific role, and merely said, he was 'awake' (Buddha means, "Awake". The Buddha wasn't Buddhist. In fact, he really wasn't 'anything' at all. It is we, choosing to emulate his teachings, who call ourselves his followers, as Buddhists.....

Practice means absorbing his teachings, understanding them, studying their meaning and intention, and then, should we see fit, applying them as the foundation of our very day-to-day existence.

The Buddha encouraged his followers - or indeed, anyone who listened to him - to question everything,and to test its veracity and soundness to the deepest degree possible, before applying it and adopting it as part of our own 'truth'. this would include such topics as rebirth, the workings of Karma, and the paradox of interdependence and individuality, Self and Not-Self.....

Many buddhists differ in their views regarding the above, and that's ok, but all hold the 4 Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path and the 5 Precepts, as the fundamental, underpinning factors that drive their practice.

 

Thanks! and thanks for taking the time to educate about Buddhism!

 

I have to emphasise, I am not an authority by any means, and other Buddhists may put things differently, so you would have diverse opinions on certain matters. it's important to understand I'm but a single voice, and by no means the final word on anything Buddhist. I've been practising for a long time, but would still consider myself a novice in many ways!

[BetheButterfly]

i think he certainly must have done this, or else he would not have had the knowledge to be able to take some aspects of it, and put forward his own opinion...

 

True

 

that's my point. As a devout Christian, something must have come from outside of your normal "comfort zone" and alerted you to other disciplines and callings. It's a credit to you that you were willing to explore these new views with an open-minded curiosity.

 

Oh thanks! Well, I almost married a wonderful Muslim man from India, who lived in Chicago. He is a great guy and we had many interesting discussions about the differences in our beliefs. My Muslim friends have also always wanted me to revert to Islam, which motivated me to explore Islam as well as research more into Christianity and Judaism. Their desire to revert me did not offend me because I knew they cared about my eternal welfare. Although I don't believe the same as they do, I appreciate their care. I also really respect their work to help people (they are involved in helping take care of poor people in Chicago - no strings attached.)

 

I also had a wonderful professor in my cultural diversity class who is a Jewish lady. It made me so sad to hear that one day when she was a girl, walking with her family, "Christians" called them a "Christ-killers" and threw stones at them. My parents taught me to respect and be kind to everyone, and this idea of other people doing the above horrifies me.

 

Jesus said to " Do to others as you would have them do to you. " (Luke 6:31) and I personally would not want anyone to do that to me. Also, I would feel horrible treating any person like that.

 

So, I think my interactions with people who do not believe the same as I do helps me to want to learn what they believe and why. That's one thing that's awesome about this forum! Because of your input, I am learning about what Buddhists believe and why and am greatly enjoying doing so! I think some Christians need to grow in understanding that there are wonderful people in other worldviews.

 

while the original influence is still much in evidence, it pays to be open to other trains of thought - but one also has to be aware first, that they even exist.

 

True. As far as I know, there have not been many Buddhists that I have personally become friends with..but I am so glad to have Buddhist friends on the forum!!! I do have Hindu friends who I used to think believe similar to Buddhists, but I am seeing there are differences between Hinduism and Buddhism.

 

 

In a way, yes. They are looked upon as divine or elevated guides, mentors and embodiments, but they are not omnipotent or eternal.

 

Understood

 

 

 

Practice really means Putting Into Practice. The Buddha declared himself to be an ordinary man, and his main message was that he came to teach the Origin of Suffering, and the Cessation of Suffering. He dropped any kind of label, pigeon-holing him into a specific role, and merely said, he was 'awake' (Buddha means, "Awake". The Buddha wasn't Buddhist. In fact, he really wasn't 'anything' at all. It is we, choosing to emulate his teachings, who call ourselves his followers, as Buddhists.....

Practice means absorbing his teachings, understanding them, studying their meaning and intention, and then, should we see fit, applying them as the foundation of our very day-to-day existence.

The Buddha encouraged his followers - or indeed, anyone who listened to him - to question everything,and to test its veracity and soundness to the deepest degree possible, before applying it and adopting it as part of our own 'truth'. this would include such topics as rebirth, the workings of Karma, and the paradox of interdependence and individuality, Self and Not-Self.....

 

I would like to do that with Jesus' teachings.

 

Many buddhists differ in their views regarding the above, and that's ok, but all hold the 4 Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path and the 5 Precepts, as the fundamental, underpinning factors that drive their practice.

 

I would like to study those now. I'm going to look them up again after writing this.

 

I have to emphasise, I am not an authority by any means, and other Buddhists may put things differently, so you would have diverse opinions on certain matters. it's important to understand I'm but a single voice, and by no means the final word on anything Buddhist. I've been practising for a long time, but would still consider myself a novice in many ways!

 

I personally enjoy learning from a person who I trust (since I have seen you on this forum for awhile) and has been practicing but considers herself a novice, rather than a person who I don't know at all in any way who considers himself/herself an expert. I think it's because it's more personable to learn from someone who cares, you know?

 

I'm a novice in Christian beliefs too, though my parents raised me in a Christian home. I actually decided to follow Jesus (as my own decision and not simply because of my parents) when I was in my late 20s. I still have a long way to go!!!

 

Am going to study the 4 Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path and the 5 Precepts of Buddhism now!

[TaraMaiden]

Good luck with that - I've been doing that for two decades nearly, and I still think there's VAST room for improvement!!

[RickyLovesLucy]

As a necessary antidote to the other thread going on at the moment, BetheButterfly is what gives Christianity a good name.

BetheButterfly absolutely ROCKS! TaraMaiden too!

 

BTW, is there always so much negative energy directed at Christians on this site? I don't mean users who respectfully disagree, I mean the rude and disrespectful Johnny-one-notes who can't give it a rest.

[BetheButterfly]

As a necessary antidote to the other thread going on at the moment, BetheButterfly is what gives Christianity a good name.

 

Thanks but I am still growing and make a lot of mistakes For example, I protest too much when people insult what I believe (or get offended when I perceive insults). I don't really know what to do about that yet, cause it's not me naturally to be a doormat, but I need to learn to not get offended so easily maybe?

 

As for my study yesterday, the 5 precepts of Buddhism are interestingly very similar to my own personal convictions of what not to do! The 4 Noble Truths of Buddhism I still need to study more, because I personally believe other Truths to be true lol: Christian beliefs. I like the format of the Eightfold path of Buddhism and agree with the idea of the qualities (which are beautiful:wisdom, morality, and meditation). Buddhism has many admirable qualities.

 

Also, I learned today about the significance of the lotus flower in Buddhism: very beautiful

[BetheButterfly]

BetheButterfly absolutely ROCKS! TaraMaiden too!

 

BTW, is there always so much negative energy directed at Christians on this site? I don't mean users who respectfully disagree, I mean the rude and disrespectful Johnny-one-notes who can't give it a rest.

 

Thanks RickyLovesLucy,

 

You too!!! And I LOVE your screenname! I adore the show "I Love Lucy!"

 

I think some people are frustrated with Christians. It is hard for me not to take it personally. It's something we Christians need to learn from and work on in being kind and good, because I think some people have been hurt by Christians. I know I have accidentally hurt people before, though I didn't mean to. Apologies don't make the hurt go away, but I hope to learn from my mistakes and not do them again.

[TaraMaiden]

Thanks but I am still growing and make a lot of mistakes For example, I protest too much when people insult what I believe (or get offended when I perceive insults). I don't really know what to do about that yet, cause it's not me naturally to be a doormat, but I need to learn to not get offended so easily maybe?

You're a patsy, and you talk a load of rubbish.

 

Just toughening you up!!

 

 

 

As for my study yesterday, the 5 precepts of Buddhism are interestingly very similar to my own personal convictions of what not to do!

these are not commandments, they're signposts against 'unskillful action'. Which is why I indicated that Buddhism is a simple premise to integrate with other disciplines, callings or practices... it fits, without having to be jimmied in....

 

The 4 Noble Truths of Buddhism I still need to study more, because I personally believe other Truths to be true lol: Christian beliefs.

The 4 Noble Truths are so called, because on scrutiny, examination and analysis, they turn out to be irrefutable.

 

This is not to say your truths are not true. but it is to say that one can support the other. the 4NT take a lot of time to understand and digest, and are a cause or basis of discussion for many long-term Buddhists, but i have found, as others have, that while the nuances can be discussed, the fundamental factors cannot be dismissed or refuted....

 

See what you think that there is about them that might not fit in with the truth of Christianity... this will be an interesting point, because I can think of several Biblical passages that actually bear them out....

 

 

I like the format of the Eightfold path of Buddhism and agree with the idea of the qualities (which are beautiful:wisdom, morality, and meditation). Buddhism has many admirable qualities.

Thanks. I kinda like it myself!

 

Also, I learned today about the significance of the lotus flower in Buddhism: very beautiful

 

The Six-Syllable Seed Mantra, which you may have heard (Om Mani Pemme Houng ( simply translated, literally means "The Jewel is in the Lotus") which means that as each petal slowly unfolds, the precious Gem of Enlightenment lies within the cradle of the bloom.

We are all 'lotuses growing from the muddied waters', but we rise above the surface and Know Suffering (the mud) but are not OF it....

[mercy]

Thanks but I am still growing and make a lot of mistakes For example, I protest too much when people insult what I believe (or get offended when I perceive insults). I don't really know what to do about that yet, cause it's not me naturally to be a doormat, but I need to learn to not get offended so easily maybe?

 

 

Just be at peace with your beliefs. In the whole scheme of things does it really matter what another thinks about what you believe?

 

I'm far from doormat but when it comes to my faith I feel no need to defend it, argue it or convince another my beliefs are solid.

 

I serve a living breathing God and he lives within me. Guides and directs my life daily. Surrounds me in His love.

 

Seeking God, losing self. Self wants to argue, God wants to love.

 

Wanted to send you a hug because you are so SO precious!

Edited August 8, 2012 by mercy
wanted to add

[BetheButterfly]

You're a patsy, and you talk a load of rubbish.

 

Just toughening you up!!

 

Lol! One of my friends used to pull my hair to "toughen me up"... ouch!

 

 

these are not commandments, they're signposts against 'unskillful action'. Which is why I indicated that Buddhism is a simple premise to integrate with other disciplines, callings or practices... it fits, without having to be jimmied in....

 

I like the word "jimmied"

 

The 4 Noble Truths are so called, because on scrutiny, examination and analysis, they turn out to be irrefutable.

 

This is not to say your truths are not true. but it is to say that one can support the other. the 4NT take a lot of time to understand and digest, and are a cause or basis of discussion for many long-term Buddhists, but i have found, as others have, that while the nuances can be discussed, the fundamental factors cannot be dismissed or refuted....

 

See what you think that there is about them that might not fit in with the truth of Christianity... this will be an interesting point, because I can think of several Biblical passages that actually bear them out....

 

That would be really interesting... to compare the similarities and differences.

 

Would suffering include sin? I suppose not in the Buddhist concept, yes? because sin = disobedience to God, and since Buddhism doesn't specifically believe in a Supreme Being who created life on earth, then sin doesn't exist in the Truths of Buddhism, but rather suffering which includes injustice of people against other people could rather include "sin" in the sense of hurting people, right? Sorry if my thoughts are confusing here...

 

 

Thanks. I kinda like it myself!

 

 

 

The Six-Syllable Seed Mantra, which you may have heard (Om Mani Pemme Houng ( simply translated, literally means "The Jewel is in the Lotus") which means that as each petal slowly unfolds, the precious Gem of Enlightenment lies within the cradle of the bloom.

We are all 'lotuses growing from the muddied waters', but we rise above the surface and Know Suffering (the mud) but are not OF it....

 

That's deep and beautiful!!!

[BetheButterfly]

Just be at peace with your beliefs. In the whole scheme of things does it really matter what another thinks about what you believe?

 

I'm far from doormat but when it comes to my faith I feel no need to defend it, argue it or convince another my beliefs are solid.

 

I serve a living breathing God and he lives within me. Guides and directs my life daily. Surrounds me in His love.

 

Seeking God, losing self. Self wants to argue, God wants to love.

 

Wanted to send you a hug because you are so SO precious!

 

Thank you Mercy! Your screenname describes you perfectly. That is great advice and I pray I grow more in my relationship with God.

 

HUGS

 

Bendiciones

[TaraMaiden]

...

Would suffering include sin? I suppose not in the Buddhist concept, yes? because sin = disobedience to God, and since Buddhism doesn't specifically believe in a Supreme Being who created life on earth, then sin doesn't exist in the Truths of Buddhism, but rather suffering which includes injustice of people against other people could rather include "sin" in the sense of hurting people, right? Sorry if my thoughts are confusing here...

 

I have said elsewhere, in explaining the concept of Karma, that we are not "punished FOR our deeds, but BY them."

 

You are right in that Buddhists do not subscribe to the concept of sin, certainly not in the way Christians do, but we do have a very shrewd and deep notion of the difference between Right and Wrong - hence the adherence to the 8Fold Path, and the first 5 - 8 Precepts (mainly we look to the first five, but 5 - 8 are also held during times of Buddhist Festivals or special occasions....)

We know and it has been shown to us many times as lives unfold, that what you think, say and do, have consequences, therefore, it is important to cultivate Right View /Opinion - The first step on the Eightfold Path - in order to train ourselves to adopt Right Intentions, Speech and Actions.

The Eightfold Path is relayed in a specific order, for easy learning as it were, but the symbol for the 8FP (and indeed, the Dharma as a whole) is a wheel. There is never a beginning or end to a wheel, and there is never a 'first' spoke or a 'last' one. So although the 8FP is recited and learnt in a specific order, each 'spoke of the wheel' acts as a partner and support for the others....

 

The word "Suffering" is actually very depressing, and if I may say, an inaccurate translation of the original word used in Pali, which is 'Dukkha'....

 

(end of part one... back in a mo'...! )

[TaraMaiden]

I confess i did a search and pinched the following from another thread i once participated in....

 

.....We have to do the self-evaluation, the self-criticism, and we have to work out what we did wrong, why and what we are going to do about it.

And we have to realise that as humans, we're going to mess up, and we have to forgive ourselves, love ourselves and realise what will be needed to avoid falling into that pitfall again.

 

The Buddha left us 4 absolutely irrefutable truths:

 

1: Life is Dukkha (all too often mis-translated as 'suffering' but better and more accurately - if a little verbosely - translated as 'stressful and fluctuatingly unsatisfactory)

 

 

2: It is dukkha because of three different factors that we clasp, grasp or cling to (either by trying to maintain them permanently, or wishing to see them end or never come about):

 

Dukkha as pain – body or mental pain

Dukkha that is inherent in formation , that would be constant care and maintenance of body and things, the oppressive nature of continuous upkeep - car, relationship, home, family....

Dukkha of change – pleasant and happy conditions in life are not permanent.

 

3: There is a way to extricate yourself from this composite of dukkha:

 

4: That way is The Eightfold Path.

there then follow eight patterns or constructs of behaviour, which people in buddhism follow and strive to adhere to in their daily lives.

 

Right View, opinion or observation

Right Intention or motivation

Right Speech

Right Action

Right Livelihood

Right Effort

Right Awareness or Mindfulness

Right Meditation or Concentration.

 

I hope that helps....

[BetheButterfly]

I have said elsewhere, in explaining the concept of Karma, that we are not "punished FOR our deeds, but BY them."

 

You are right in that Buddhists do not subscribe to the concept of sin, certainly not in the way Christians do, but we do have a very shrewd and deep notion of the difference between Right and Wrong - hence the adherence to the 8Fold Path, and the first 5 - 8 Precepts (mainly we look to the first five, but 5 - 8 are also held during times of Buddhist Festivals or special occasions....)

We know and it has been shown to us many times as lives unfold, that what you think, say and do, have consequences, therefore, it is important to cultivate Right View /Opinion - The first step on the Eightfold Path - in order to train ourselves to adopt Right Intentions, Speech and Actions.

The Eightfold Path is relayed in a specific order, for easy learning as it were, but the symbol for the 8FP (and indeed, the Dharma as a whole) is a wheel. There is never a beginning or end to a wheel, and there is never a 'first' spoke or a 'last' one. So although the 8FP is recited and learnt in a specific order, each 'spoke of the wheel' acts as a partner and support for the others....

 

The word "Suffering" is actually very depressing, and if I may say, an inaccurate translation of the original word used in Pali, which is 'Dukkha'....

 

(end of part one... back in a mo'...! )

 

Punished by our deeds makes a lot of sense... it does seem that consequences can punishments in themselves.

 

For example, when I was a kid and ate all the oreos left in the oreo packet, my parents had no need to punish me. My digestive system punished me quite well lol.

 

About sin, that is one place where Buddhism and Christian beliefs differ, but there are indeed similarities in the idea of consequences for certain actions that are not "right."

 

Yeah suffering is a depressing word and isn't fun. I am not a fan of it.

 

Thanks for the info on Dukkha! How do you pronounce it? Stressful makes sense. Stress isn't fun or healthy for the body. It's something I'm trying to learn how to handle... stress. I'd rather simply avoid it. When I was a kid, the only thing that stressed me out was math homework and when I had to hurry to get someplace on time lol. (I took a lot of time... still do. I can't believe how fast time flies wow.)

[TaraMaiden]

.....

 

Thanks for the info on Dukkha! How do you pronounce it?

As far as I am aware, it's pronounced dook-ah....

 

Stressful makes sense. Stress isn't fun or healthy for the body. It's something I'm trying to learn how to handle... stress.

well, I think it might be a bit hard on ourselves to consider all 'stress' as bad. 'Stress' can also mean something that drives you to step up to the plate and finish a task to a scheduled deadline... In fact, even when we're ecstatically happy (see university graduates throwing their mortar boards up in the air, or Naval Cadets Passing Out, with their caps...) their systems are also under 'stress' but it's a good type of stress.... their hearts beat as fast, and their systems are put under the same kind of physical pressure as when the stress is 'negative'. Look at Gold Medal winners... see how they cry on the podium? That's not sadness, that's joy, but it's a similar impulse and trigger....

the kind of stress that isn't really healthy at all, is Dis-stress.... that's when Stress doubles, un-checked....

 

I'd rather simply avoid it. When I was a kid, the only thing that stressed me out was math homework and when I had to hurry to get someplace on time lol. (I took a lot of time... still do. I can't believe how fast time flies wow.)

 

That's a good point... time seems to fly faster now we're older because we tend to fill our waking, thinking moments with worry.... we rarely 'switch off' like children can do... to show how real this is, don't we wait ages and ages for a holiday - and then there it is - gone? Or waiting 10 minutes at a dental surgery, is different to waiting ten minutes for your loved one to come home... the time lapses seem different, but our emotions create this...and yet 10 minutes *here*, is exactly the same as 10 minutes *there*....

 

The secret is to take the time to take time.

[RickyLovesLucy]

Seeking God, losing self. Self wants to argue, God wants to love.

Wow. That really resonates with me. Thanks.

[mercy]

TaraMaiden you are truly a gifted teacher.

 

hi bethebutterfly! xxxx

Edited August 11, 2012 by mercy
wanted to add

[TaraMaiden]

TaraMaiden you are a truly gifted teacher.

No dearest, I'm not.... I'm just relating what works for me - and if it resonates with others, it just means we're playing the same tune, more or less, in harmony.... Others will not agree with you.

Primarily, because they don't agree with me, or my PoV. And that's fine, there's room enough for all of us....