Wife's workplace emotional infidelity...

[Holyoak]

Hi everyone, glad to be here with a first post.

 

Little background: Wife is early 40's, I'm mid 40's, one child about to become a senior. Been married 23 years.

 

Situation: One day she said I need to talk with you, and flat out said I don't love you anymore, and I am interested in someone else who I work with. I asked who, and she would not say. Not going to lie and say I felt our marriage was totally healthy, and obviously for whatever reason neglect, arguing, hurting each other verbally, and emotional issues concerning both of us are factors in the poor state of our marriage. There has also been extremely good times, with tremendous love, trust and happiness. There is no alcohol or drug abuse, never any physical abuse either.

 

Been to MC 4 times which she does not fully embrace because she views most of psychology as mumbo jumbo, and the therapist said I seem to have been suffering from long standing depression. My W also thinks depression is pretty much a BS excuse/lack of pulling up your bootstraps, and pretty much a non existent condition. (she has told me if I truly cared about her, I would have done something, or I can't understand how you can be this way with a great child, caring wife, good finances, etc...). No doubt at times my depressed mood would be a real downer, but her emotional affair actions crossed a line regardless of circumstance, she admits that, but will not attempt to stop the relationship in her mind.

 

The night after she broke the news to me about her emotional affair, she said she was going for a drive, which turned into a stay at a hotel and said we would talk when she came home. I figured maybe she needed to clear her head, and I said nothing... Well, plenty was said when the OM wife angrily confronted my wife at our home, and what a mess, and a potentially dangerous one. Now I fully know who it is, my God how humiliating it was to me, and it was like the person standing there (my wife) was a total stranger. Seems the OM visited her the next morning to go on a ride, and I guess the OM wife followed her when my wife came home. Seems the emotional affair has been in play for about a year, and she explicitly says no kissing, or sex of any kind has happened. She is an extremely attractive, very successful business women, but suffers from very low self-esteem when away from her job. She is a workaholic, perfectionist at her job, and because of constant 11-12 hr days at the office, then constant blackberry texts/emails concerning work when home, I really have not seen much of her for about three years.

 

I told her often how pretty/hot she is, how proud I am of her quintessential American success story, always supported her when I knew she needed it, and loved telling her I love her. (she always had a hard time doing the same, but I always felt she did)

 

I point blank asked her to stop this affair, and she said I can't turn it off like a switch, got extremely angry (most anger by far shown in this entire ordeal) and now almost three months after I get the news, she still says I don't love you, and still seems to be fully emotionally involved with Mr. Wonderful. She says the only time she sees the OM is during meetings, and that there is no more texting/email/phone contact at all.

 

I had hoped MC would have guided her very firmly toward understanding that 3 people can not exist in the marriage, and that my W will have to make a choice to stop the affair in your mind, and determine what you value more; me and our family to at least attempt to heal things, or some fantasy that you allowed to happen and seem to care little about ending that potentially would destroy two families. I'm at the point now that I am going to calmly and seriously tell her that it really is a choice you are going to have to make, and that I will not allow my dignity to be eroded further, or my daughter to suffer any more because of this situation that you CAN control and at least try to help heal. Pretty much the only reason she has not D me yet is fear of disrupting even more my child's last year of school, and I pretty much feel like I have a countdown clock around my neck.

 

I could (did) write a book, but with what I have said, what is the consensus? Having the OM in such close proximity at work on a daily basis even with no verbal communication seems like a nearly hopeless situation for her to do what must be done. One thing that nags at me is I believe that if one side gets a D, the other side will quickly follow and they will get together. I hate the feeling of my child having a step dad, and I know a good marriage can not exist w/o both people being in love. For whatever reason I still love her, and don't want to make a bad, rash decision of not trying to work on our relationship if it can be saved.... But, I have to say every day she does not try to embrace some form of healing makes my heart feel more detached, and the decision easier to part ways.

 

How would/did you folks who have been through a similar circumstance deal with it? I really appreciate the help, and patience you had to read what was written.

 

Thank you.

[worldgonewrong]

Seems the emotional affair has been in play for about a year, and she explicitly says no kissing, or sex of any kind has happened. [...]She says the only time she sees the OM is during meetings, and that there is no more texting/email/phone contact at all.

 

I think she is full of sh*t.

[standtall]

Seems the emotional affair has been in play for about a year, and she explicitly says no kissing, or sex of any kind has happened.

 

I wouldn't believe this part for 1 second. An EA for over a year? Most male AP's won't invest that much time into an EA unless they are getting some physical action.

[Gunny376]

Based upon my own personal experience? And having studied the subject in depth over the last 22 years?

 

I'd divorce her as if I was Attila the Hun. I wouldn't not make it easy on her, I would be ruthless, hard-hearted, shoot for the stars, be non-negotiative, hire a mean as junk yard lawyer. Seek sole custody, the house and everything worth stealing. By the time I got done? She'd be sitting in divorce court wondering how that could be the same man she had been married to all of these years. I would expose the affair to any and everyone who would listen ~ even complete strangers would give me the time to listen. It would NOT be pretty and it would NOT be a fun experience for her!

 

I would go after the other man, his job, his career!

 

THERE IS NOT OTHER WAY!

NO MORE MR. NICE GUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jethro]

Well, my situation is pretty similar, except without kids (big difference however). About the same age, almost the same marriage length and time frames. Wife with EA with co-worker (married co-worker too).

 

Do yourself a favor and lay down the ultimatum now. She either is or isn't commited to you in the marriage. If she says "she can't flip off the EA like a switch", do not go any further- that's all you need to know. DO NOT under any circumstance make the mistake I did, which was suggesting more time for her to clear her head (you may think she will "come around" or "come to her senses"- she won't). If she says she has fallen out of love with you- PLEASE, I BEG OF YOU... do not waste any more time trying to work it out. I have subjected myself to years and years of absolute hell and misery trying to hang on to my marriage and guess what? After finally accepting the reality I couldn't see years ago, life is much better!

 

On the child front- my situation does not include children, but I myself am the prodcut of a divorced parental set and while it was hard at the time, it ended up turning out much better in the end.

[Jethro]

But, I have to say every day she does not try to embrace some form of healing makes my heart feel more detached, and the decision easier to part ways.

 

If you are not careful, what you say right here will destroy you over time. You think it's bad now? Wait another 5 months. END THIS- trust me... the only way this will improve is when you finally admit to yourself, your friends, your family and her that it is time to move on.

 

There are only two choices here... either you start healing, or you continue being hurt. Which option do you think is the right choice?

[Holyoak]

Thank you everyone; please keep adding your thoughts everyone. A lot of wisdom here, and much of it I agree with. Really is amazing how because of my military service we could be apart for many month's across oceans, and all I felt was longing to see her, NEVER even the slightest twinge of mistrust. Same for all her high-powered business trips all around the world; never a bit of fear of her cheating despite being the only women in the group.

 

This is going to be tough; all of her family loves me, and I love many of them more than my own kin. My child has been amazing through all of this; really clear headed, brave, and strong... Very proud. I do however need to ask; when do you, if ever tell them about all the details? My child knows nothing about the EA portion for all the discord, and not sure how to handle this?

[Gunny376]

1. The sooner the better ~ it won't get any better nor easier to do with time. Procasturation is like masturbation! Its just a matter of time before you realize you only screwing yourself.

 

2. Calmly, matter-fact, as un-emotionally as possible

 

3. DD knows more than you think ~ as you will find out later on. She's a teenager ~ not stupid.

[worldgonewrong]

My child has been amazing through all of this; really clear headed, brave, and strong... Very proud. I do however need to ask; when do you, if ever tell them about all the details? My child knows nothing about the EA portion for all the discord, and not sure how to handle this?

 

Spare the child the trauma of this until they're over-18 years of age, at least.

 

Demonizing the wife, even with the plain truth, is enough to cause confusion for the kid. The child - no matter what - will still look to BOTH of you during his/her lifetime; that won't end.

 

And also, in the end, they'll respect you a lot more in the future that you spared them that info and didn't drag them down with you in that aspect of the turmoil.

 

Trust me, *I* want to tell my kids that my wife's not faithful and has upturned our marriage for an affair, but I won't. I just won't. It would hurt the kids and cause psychological damage at a time in their lives when their sense of identity & trust is still being developed.

[Holyoak]

Thanks again everyone.

 

Have some other puzzling questions I'd like some insight to. She continues to wear her wedding ring/wedding set... Is it out of guilt, facade to friends/co-workers to avoid perception/questions if they were not worn, or perhaps it's symbolic that her true feelings for me are different than expressed?,... She also has a picture pillow of us kept on the bed containing a very happy photo of us together from our wedding reception. Initially it was removed, then on the bed facing so the picture could not be seen, but now she keeps it in place on the bed facing out like it has for decades?

 

Sex; maybe 4 times in these last 2.5 months since I get the EA and "I don't love you anymore" speech. First time she removed my clothes without prompting, and seemed into it just like always. Other times she seemed very fully aroused as before, I did always initiate, but the experiences were not as intensely mutual. She cried during one encounter and pulled away. She will not kiss during any sexual encounters or at all until very recently, where a few days ago did kiss me lightly on the lips which really confused me. I wonder at times if she did have a PA, and now she feels like she is cheating on Mr. wonderful with me, but out of some sense of "duty" will have sex, as this is far less important to her than emotional bonding/relationship.

 

Before leaving for the few days, she seemed to be genuinely "nicer" and when I came into the bedroom and laid down, she actively reached out to touch me. This too is confusing as she would not do this before, want to hug, or even hold hands. All this confusion to me in my state, and foggy first person perception makes me wonder; is it guilt holding her back from fixing things, when deep down her heart wants to, but she feels what she has done is beyond my forgiveness, so keep saying I don't love you to force my/her hand into divorce as the only solution?

 

She keeps saying she wants to run away, completely disappear from family/me/everyone, and that I should find a "good person" to love... Did also say at the same time (said she was joking, yeah right) hopes she will not be as attractive as her? Also to continue with her low self esteem, she mentioned some strange idea that she was my second choice, as she was told by one of my female friends before we were married, that I was to be married years before I met her, but was broken off by my then fiance'... How the hell can that be an issue for her; it was way before I met her? I was her first BF, first person she ever said I love you to, started dating when she was 18 Y/O, and has no frame of reference after being married 23 years.

 

She has always heard me say, and fully understands to me honor, integrity, and honesty are hallmarks of what I believe/who I am, and enact to my fullest everyday of my life; wonder if that fact makes her feel even more shamed, and hopeless that what she has done was a fatal mistake and can't live with the guilt or that I could never truly forgive her? FWIW, after she abruptly left one MC session, the therapist told me she would have a very hard time being divorced (did not elaborate), but perhaps she sees what I do as a component and her true feelings? Again, I don't want to "give-up" to divorce when a persons true feelings could be misguided by hopeless guilt, and lack of ability to at least explore that I might be able to forgive and rebuild the marriage if she would allow herself to do so.

[standtall]

holyoak...you already know my opinion if she has been screwing this guy. this is a classic trickle truth scenario. If you are able to handle it, I would start digger around more..but prepare yourself, you might not like what you find.

[KathyM]

I would suggest you make plans to separate. Your wife has said she doesn't love you anymore, and she is in love with someone else. You can't make a marriage work if there is only one person emotionally in it, and your wife is pining away for somebody else. If you want to wait until your daughter graduates and goes off to college, I can see doing that, but I don't see the point in trying to save the marriage. Her feelings/emotions are with somebody else. She is only giving you a few crumbs here and there out of guilt, or maybe to try to ease your suffering a bit, but I don't see this marriage as salvageable. She doesn't love you, she's not remorseful for her actions, she is still in love with this OM. That's not a position whereby you can rebuild a marriage on. Make plans to separate. That would be my suggestion.

[Holyoak]

holyoak...you already know my opinion if she has been screwing this guy. this is a classic trickle truth scenario. If you are able to handle it, I would start digger around more..but prepare yourself, you might not like what you find.

 

Thanks... When I brought up my doubts in MC, the female MC said, "look, she already said there was no sex", I said much of the same that you did, but used the example of peeling an onion, and my wife continued to say there was no sex, where I said I hope you are not playing a "unless I spell out word for word exactly what sex means to you, naming every scenario, you won't admit to it". Of course it's all "see, this is why It can't work, you will never trust me, and I can't live with that, or feeling checked up on"... Yeah well, trust has to be earned, and after what I have been hit with and how, I'd think a bit more humility on your part might be nice, to help ME understand what happened.

 

Not that it seems to matter much now, but the MC seems to side very much with her (the "she already said no sex comment, and also for not telling her that for anything to work, the EA has to stop). Funny too how when she tells me (what seems like limited information) what her female friends say about what she did, it's "I'm surprised it took so long", "as long as you are happy", whatever... Can't recall a single mention of "geez, you really f'd up", or "that was absolutely wrong to destroy your family, and most likely another from your actions", etc... Seems really selfish.

 

Will be back tomorrow to talk with her, where I left saying I hope you take these two days apart from your child and myself to really, REALLY figure out what is going on with this relationship, and what you value. Not hard to see I'll be single soon IMO from what I have heard/experienced so far from her.

[Darth Vader]

Thanks... When I brought up my doubts in MC, the female MC said, "look, she already said there was no sex", I said much of the same that you did, but used the example of peeling an onion, and my wife continued to say there was no sex, where I said I hope you are not playing a "unless I spell out word for word exactly what sex means to you, naming every scenario, you won't admit to it". Of course it's all "see, this is why It can't work, you will never trust me, and I can't live with that, or feeling checked up on"... Yeah well, trust has to be earned, and after what I have been hit with and how, I'd think a bit more humility on your part might be nice, to help ME understand what happened.

 

Not that it seems to matter much now, but the MC seems to side very much with her (the "she already said no sex comment, and also for not telling her that for anything to work, the EA has to stop). Funny too how when she tells me (what seems like limited information) what her female friends say about what she did, it's "I'm surprised it took so long", "as long as you are happy", whatever... Can't recall a single mention of "geez, you really f'd up", or "that was absolutely wrong to destroy your family, and most likely another from your actions", etc... Seems really selfish.

 

Will be back tomorrow to talk with her, where I left saying I hope you take these two days apart from your child and myself to really, REALLY figure out what is going on with this relationship, and what you value. Not hard to see I'll be single soon IMO from what I have heard/experienced so far from her.

 

 

With a "bad" MC like that, forget the MC'ing and just file for Divorce! Your marriage is over, she's been sleeping with this OM and you need to get tested for STD's! And stop sleeping with the STBXW and waiting for her to come out of the fog! Actually, use her fog to your advantage, hire a bulldog Lawyer and take her to the cleaners! Do it very fast and off the radar (don't let her know what you are doing!)

[bluerosekiller]

Holyoak - I'm so sorry for what you're going through.

I know from personal experience that what's happening is an extremely painful, confusing, humiliating experience. And that, even though you know the truth of the matter in your gut, it's easier to go through this type of an ordeal holding fast to some shred of hope that this whole "emotional affair" thing will run it's course, your wife will rediscover her true feeling for her & that, in the end, your marriage will be saved.

Sometimes, this kind of denial is the only thing that allows you to get through the day, right?

Well, that's alright.

Been there, done that.

It's not an ideal way to deal with things by any means my friend, but in the short term, if it gets you through without suffering a complete & total breakdown. Do it.

But please, heed my words. We're talking short term here. Don't let it turn into a way of life like I did for over a decade. Because then, you'll find yourself on the other side of 50, with a lot of time wasted & no self esteem left just like me & I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Especially, a decent sounding guy like yourself.

Peace.

 

 

Jim

[Decimated]

Holyoak, your story is very similar to mine. We are about the same age except we have 3 kids and STBXWW only works part time.

 

After 12 years of relatively good marriage I found out my STBXWW was having an affair with an old school friend who only lives 4 miles away. I was going on for 1 ½ years. She insisted it was only a friendship as well...EA only.

 

I thought we were happy. She never told me otherwise. She always wore her rings. She kept our wedding pictures on her dresser. Our sex life started to dwindle to a few times a month. The passion from her slowed and then stopped. She began to act like it was a chore. I noticed her eye contact and body language changed. She started staying up later and going out more. She avoided kissing/hugging me and would not initiate sex. Sex became impersonal and her preferred sex positions became more impersonal as well. She wanted to be pleasured but would not return any favors.

 

After I discovered evidence of the EA she would never admit there was sex involved until I got proof from the OM's wife. There was sex…and lots of it! Even after I received this proof (thousands of email messages between STBXWW and OM) she still refused to discuss it. This was extremely painful stuff to read. My GPS tracker confirmed she was spending time at hotels with him. No one goes to a hotel to just talk. They were spending time together on her days off while I was at work.

 

Take my word for it. She is having sex with him. If she is like my STBXWW she will never admit it to you…or anyone else. She is ashamed of that part but in her mind but she loves him and so the sex is justified. It is a secret that only they share.

 

Standtall is right. Guys won't hang around that long without some kind of physical reward. I know this from my own dating days...many years ago.

 

I agree with Gunny376 and Jethro.

 

You need to give her an firm ultimatum or divorce her. Do the 180. I wasted over a year trying everything to get my wife to commit to our marriage. I was emotionally brutal on me and guess what…she was still seeing OM and lying about it….the whole time. She just took it underground. You can't stay in limbo…it will destroy you emotionally and physically and you can't wait for their affair to run it's course....you could be waiting forever and still end up with nothing.

 

Think about this. Do you think you could ever trust her again after this betrayal? What about years down the road from now? Will she do it again…with the same guy? A different guy? I decided that the damage my STBXWW did in my marriage was too great and I filed for divorce. Without trust...there is nothing.

 

KathyM say's this well. It took me over a year to realize this.

 

"I would suggest you make plans to separate. Your wife has said she doesn't love you anymore, and she is in love with someone else. You can't make a marriage work if there is only one person emotionally in it, and your wife is pining away for somebody else. If you want to wait until your daughter graduates and goes off to college, I can see doing that, but I don't see the point in trying to save the marriage. Her feelings/emotions are with somebody else. She is only giving you a few crumbs here and there out of guilt, or maybe to try to ease your suffering a bit, but I don't see this marriage as salvageable. She doesn't love you, she's not remorseful for her actions, she is still in love with this OM. That's not a position whereby you can rebuild a marriage on. Make plans to separate. That would be my suggestion."

 

I know how deep the pain you are feeling is…it rocked me to my core. I was holding out for hope that my STBXWW would wake up one day and magically love me again. I have been haunting these forums for a while now and I have never seen a spouse, especially a WW that does not show remorse and a willingness to do everything to fix the marriage, where it ever works out in the end…emotional detachment. I have noticed that once a WW falls for another, even if it ends for them, usually does not get back the love they felt for you. If they do stay it is hollow…never the same as it was pre-affair. It may happen but it is rare. The only chance you have it that she experiences the consequences of what she has done…loosing you.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Decimated

[worldgonewrong]

Decimated nailed it.

It's a hard truth that I'm coming to grips with, too.

[Tallblueyed]

Holyoak,

 

Very similar situation, one key difference is that my WS cut off all ties and wanted to work it out with me (and no kids involved) - but it wasn't her first indiscretion so it is over for me.

 

I agree with most (if not all) of the replies, so I won't repeat their advice.

 

There is a very good book that I did read before making a final decision, "After the Affair"

 

It is a good book for BOTH of you to read; bottom line, she needs to commit or forfeit - there is no in between. Any ambivalence on her part should be met with a solid, non-emotional stance of ending the marriage (and mean it!)

 

If it turns out YOU have to make the decision, you will feel much better about yourself afterwards (might take a few weeks). My self-esteem and self-worth was in the toilet, but in the last month I feel like a new man (and every day gets better).

 

Good luck, keep us posted - we are all pulling for you.

And keep looking in the mirror, you need to understand any ill contributions that you may have made to the marriage (NOT that any of them warrant her infidelity!)

[worldgonewrong]

The ones who are truly nasty are the Wayward spouses who have an affair and then they're the ones who pip you to the post by divorcing you. THAT's some nasty stuff. You're not even given the control of invoking divorce first.

Instead they concoct some malarkey to strengthen their resolve for this garbage.

[Gunny376]

I know how deep the pain you are feeling is…it rocked me to my core. I was holding out for hope that my STBXWW would wake up one day and magically love me again. I have been haunting these forums for a while now and I have never seen a spouse, especially a WW that does not show remorse and a willingness to do everything to fix the marriage, where it ever works out in the end…emotional detachment. I have noticed that once a WW falls for another, even if it ends for them, usually does not get back the love they felt for you. If they do stay it is hollow…never the same as it was pre-affair. It may happen but it is rare. The only chance you have it that she experiences the consequences of what she has done…loosing you.

I've been a study of divorce, marriage, relationships, inter-personal relationships, Love, etc every since my divorce in 1991.

 

Hands down time and time again, when dealing with a WWS (Walk-A-Way-Spouse) there's one and only way to deal with it. No nonsense I'm not playing with your azz!

 

"Run Forrest Run!"

 

I'd detach myself and then run deep and silent. She values her relationship more than she does you, your marriage, her family, her daughter, your history, your years upon years upon years together?

 

There's no shortage of women looking for a good, loving, caring man!

 

What one will abuse?

Another can certainly use!

[worldgonewrong]

AMEN, Gunny!!!

[g450]

So she stayed in a hotel room by herself? Yeah right.

 

I usually dont do "me too" postings but I gotta tell you these folks are right on the money. She IS have a PA with him. Guaranteed.

 

Your child is almost grown. Mine was 20 when my XW had her affair. Much easier for an 18 year old having to deal with this than an 8 year old. With that said, I would do exactly as Gunny said. Lawyer up and fight her. She left you a long time ago. You just didnt realize it until now, just like me.

 

And as for me and Gunny, we both recently got remarried so you have that to look forward too because as he so eliqently said "There's no shortage of women looking for a good, loving, caring man!"

 

That fact is absolutely true. Look for that silver lining but fight the good fight with your STBXWW. Because that ship has sailed.

[jasperlynx]

Holyoak,

My wife just informed me that she her boss have become a very close friend whom she respects, cares for and thinks the world of. Ironily he left his wife 2 months ago. I've known they were friends and for the past year I been feeling that my wife has become more and more distant. She told me she loves him as a friend and that they have so much in common and that they are just friends. NO SEX.

Im so hurt.

[jgregory4614]

Holyoak....Your wife is a douche-bag! You shouldn't have to deal with her crap. Do what you need to do.

[imagine]

Hi Holyoak,

 

You may want to try a semen tester on your wife's underpants. Read up about the Checkmate tester kit (I'm sure there are many more kits than this one)

 

Expose her to EVERYBODY. This is not for revenge but to wake her up. Delay your own decision for imminent divorce for a couple of months. A spouse can fall back in love.

 

Read the articles at marriagebuilders for a Plan A if you do want to save your marriage!