Good questions Atheists ask Theists...

[BetheButterfly]

I've gone around the mill countless times with questions to theists of any stripe. Christians, specifically, because of course, I live in the US, and most of the folks here are christian.

 

1. Why is the resurrection this huge defining moment in Christianity?

Historically, records indicate (even in the bible) resurrection was a rather normal happening during those times, at least literally. The bible refers to entire cities being resurrected in celebration at various points. Why, specifically, is this one given more creedence then the rest, if it was so common?

 

Could you please give Biblical references to the boldened part? Thanks.

The reason why the resurrection of Jesus Christ is the huge defining moment in Christianity is because it fills his followers' hearts with tremendous joy!

 

 

Let's say for example someone you love and adore dies, yet if he/she rose again to life, that would make you so happy, yeah? That is how it is for Christians concerning why Jesus' resurrection is so huge and defining!

 

Also, Christians believe that Jesus' death and resurrection fulfill the prophesies concerning him/them in the Tanakh. For example, we believe that Jesus' being tortured, his death, and his resurrection are prophesied about in Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22. Those are some very powerful prophesies that Christians believe Jesus fulfills!!!

 

The crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ is the lowest and saddest moment for people who love Jesus, because makes us so sad that he was hurt and that he died for us, and not just for us, but for all the world (1 John 2:2).

 

While we are thankful for what he did for us, most Christians would rather God have found "another way" because we don't like pain and don't want our loved ones, including Jesus who we follow, to have to endure pain.

 

2. Why the absence of tangible evidence? Throughout the bible, god visited people. Via Angels or fiery chariots or other happenings. Where are they now?

Awesome question

 

Some people do experience seeing angels, but are not believed by other people. I personally have felt what I believe is an angel, but someone could simply excuse my feeling/experience as me being in danger of drowning and my emotions/thoughts getting the best of me. (I was in a swimming pool and almost drowned, but I felt an angel there with me in the water; it was an amazing experience!) Do you believe me? Many people don't believe it when people say they have seen/experienced angels or other amazing supernatural happenings. That's fine. I've heard of situations that make me skeptical of other people's accounts, but I wasn't there so...

 

Did god simply surmise that this time would be the time he would hide?

I'm sure you've heard the famous quote, "God works in mysterious ways." I know that's not a very good answer, but basically I do think that yes, God wants people in this time period to seek Him and believe without Him showing Himself physically to everybody.

 

Do I appreciate that? Not really It would be SO MUCH EASIER to believe in God if He would kindly show Himself so that people wouldn't think those who believe in Him are crazy but rather would believe too due to seeing!

 

Paul, in his letter to the believers in Romans, says that God can be seen through his Creation. While I personally understand and agree, I also completely understand why other people do not see God through Nature or Life. I think Atheists have very good reasons for not believing in God, but those reasons do not negate my experience with God. My experience with God, as well as the experiences of other people with God, prove to me that God exists and that He loves us, even though not everyone sees Him.

 

Personally, I consider "seeing God" to be like looking into a "spiritcope." To see things are too tiny for our eyes to see by themselves, we use a microscope. To see the stars and planets that are too far for us to see better with just our eyes, we use a telescope. In the same way, those who seek and look for God can find Him, through using their spirit.

 

The bible pays alot of lip service to faith, even though it itself was written by folks who witnessed these events. so who's really doing the talking here?

Those who wrote about what they witnessed are doing the talking yeah, and those who hear/read what they say either believe that it really happened or they don't believe.

 

3. Why the hypocrisy? Many christians are pro-war and pro-death penalty, yet are anti-choice in the abortion debate.

Good yet sad question. I don't know.

 

Jesus was not pro-war. If he was, then he would have attempted to conquer the Roman Empire and destroy the Roman empire before the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem. The Roman Empire was oppressing his people after all. If he had for example led angels to destroy the Romans (which I think he could have done - Matthew 26:52-54), then I think all the Jewish people would have accepted him as the Messiah, and everyone would have feared him. He didn't do that though. If he had, that would have actually made him a hypocrite, since he told his followers to love their enemies. Loving someone doesn't mean killing them. Jesus' teachings and example focused on love. Jesus didn't kill anybody, but rather suffered by being tortured and killed.

 

As for pro-death, Jesus was for forgiveness and for people having the opportunity to repent. One can't repent and live God's way if he/she doesn't have the chance to do so.

 

Now, some Christians point out that when Jesus comes, that he will destroy his enemies (Psalm 2, Matthew 13:40-43, Matthew 25:31-46, Revelations). However, it's important to note that when Jesus comes back and destroys his enemies, he will be coming back as immortal... he is no longer under human limits like we are. Christians are under human limits though, and thus under the commands Jesus gave us to love our enemies and to forgive people when they hurt us. That's really hard, and it's interesting how it takes supernatural help to help us do what mortally is so difficult to do.

 

To answer your question, I think then a lot of the hypocrisy has to do with Christians trying to do what God does, trying to be little gods. God kills, same as God creates life. Does that mean we can kill? NO!!!

 

While I understand how many people (I included even though I'm a pacifist) would be willing to kill in order to protect others or ourselves (due to the instincts we have to survive and to protect our loved ones), the command of Jesus to love one's enemies is clear. So, if a Christian kills an enemy instead of loving him/her, then I think that is disobeying Jesus' commands to love that enemy and not following Jesus' example, where he did not fight to survive, but rather allowed himself to be tortured and killed.

 

4. Why the slaughter of the Caananites and Midianites?

I don't know. That makes me really sad, and I don't understand it at all.

 

Christianity teaches a suitable version of morality when it comes to accepting others, tolerance, etc

Agreed.

 

Yet, these peoples were killed and the virgin women given to the Israelites for purposes undescribed.

 

5. Creationism. The bible claims God created the world and universe in 6 days 6,000 years ago. We now know for certain this is an impossible claim. Since this is a founding principle of christianity, and it is a false one based strictly on the time it claims, what makes the rest of the bible valid at all?

The founding principle of Christianity is Jesus Christ and his fulfilling the Law and the Prophets.

 

Yes God creating the world is a principle that Christians ascribe to as well, due to Genesis, a manuscript that is thousands of years old! However, many Christians do not believe that Genesis is proven inaccurate by modern science. Rather, many Christians love science and believe science is based on observation and experimentation with what is observed.

 

Genesis however is not science, but rather the Hebrew account of how life began on earth. For some Christians, we believe God uses evolution in Creation. Some, including me, believe that Genesis 2 and 3 hint at micro-evolution.

 

The following articles is very interesting:

 

Plants, Microevolution, and the Book of Genesis | The Biebel Blog

 

Genesis is based on the oral recitations of the ancestors and descendants of Abraham, thought to be written down by Moses. Many Christians, including those who believe God used evolution in creating life on earth, do not believe that Genesis has been proved wrong by methods created by people of this time that attempt to measure the age of the earth. Rather, we see Genesis as a nonscience book that is part of the history of Abraham's ancestors and descendants.

 

We're more closer to the "end." Sounds ominous,but even many secular scientists believe disaster is imminent from different sources, including the sun, man-made inventions which damage the ecosystems of the earth, and so on. One example of the man-made inventions which has great potential to damage the earth is nuclear power. Japan has already suffered at the hands of nukes and nuclear plant damage.

 

The following articles are sad but show that even though we are now living in times of wonderful scientific inventions, a few scientific inventions actually are hurting the earth and some of its inhabitants:

 

Impact of Nuclear Power Plants

 

Troubled Japanese Nuclear Power Plant Hit by Power Outage

 

On the Brink: Doomsday (1997) - Documentary, Nuclear War, Atomic, Bomb, JFK - YouTube

 

So anyways, it's important to note that Genesis was written 3 to 5 thousand years ago, closer to the "beginning" of life on earth, and it is not a science book, but rather a historic explanation by the ancestors/descendants of Abraham. Can science go back and time to see how they offered such an explanation of the beginning of life on earth? I personally wish that time travel was possible. Who knows? Maybe someday it will be!!!

 

Personally, I really wish that people could travel back in time and have a "front-row" seat on how life came to exist on the earth, as well as how old exactly the earth is. I adore time machine movies because of that idea If I could go back in time, I'd love to go back to as close as the beginning as possible, as well as go back and see Jesus and follow him throughout his ministry!!!

 

Anyways, thanks for the thought-provoking and interesting questions. I'm not attempting to try to persuade you to think/believe what I do, but am just trying to explain what I believe and why.

[man_in_the_box]

5. Creationism. The bible claims God created the world and universe in 6 days 6,000 years ago. We now know for certain this is an impossible claim. Since this is a founding principle of christianity, and it is a false one based strictly on the time it claims, what makes the rest of the bible valid at all?

 

Actually the Bible does not claim anything concerning the age of the earth. To come to the conclusion requires a whole lot of creative thinking (coincidentally that is what creationists do). What has been done to support this claim is simply keep track of the registered ages of various persons in the first books of the Bible to 'count' back to the start of Genesis. Somewhere along that track people calculate that the earth 'must' be 6000 years old. This requires using the Bible for something it was not never ment to do: providing scientific evidence on something as concrete as the age of the earth.

 

But even if you do want to use it this way and come to the absurd conclusion that Adam and Eve must have existed 6000 years ago than you still have the problem of the 7 'days'. A common alternative interpretation does not neccessarily regard these 'days' as the 24h unit we use in our daily life. Merely an illustrative use of words to describe how god works.

 

The 24h cycle "day" is based on the rotation of earth around the sun. If god created the sun on the 4th day than how on earth (no pun intended) were there already "days" during the first 3 days of Genesis? It seems highly unlikely that a divine entity such as god seems to be working by the human day/night cycle. Unless he had a divine plan to make everything revolve around 24h cycles and subsequently created the earth/sun ellipsoidal track fit this 24h cycle (poorly). That's an even bigger leap out there.

 

The 6000 year earth claim seems to be really off-based and I do not think it is that widely supported by Christians around the world.

[elplague]

Could you please give Biblical references to the boldened part? Thanks.

 

Apologies, it is the resurrection of old testament saints that parade through jerusalem - Matthew 27:52-53

 

The reason why the resurrection of Jesus Christ is the huge defining moment in Christianity is because it fills his followers' hearts with tremendous joy!

 

 

Let's say for example someone you love and adore dies, yet if he/she rose again to life, that would make you so happy, yeah? That is how it is for Christians concerning why Jesus' resurrection is so huge and defining!

 

Also, Christians believe that Jesus' death and resurrection fulfill the prophesies concerning him/them in the Tanakh. For example, we believe that Jesus' being tortured, his death, and his resurrection are prophesied about in Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22. Those are some very powerful prophesies that Christians believe Jesus fulfills!!!

 

The crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ is the lowest and saddest moment for people who love Jesus, because makes us so sad that he was hurt and that he died for us, and not just for us, but for all the world (1 John 2:2).

 

While we are thankful for what he did for us, most Christians would rather God have found "another way" because we don't like pain and don't want our loved ones, including Jesus who we follow, to have to endure pain.

 

Thanks for the answer. My relative point is, that with so many other resurrections, it doesn't seem that it was an apparently unique instance of the times.

 

Awesome question

 

Some people do experience seeing angels, but are not believed by other people. I personally have felt what I believe is an angel, but someone could simply excuse my feeling/experience as me being in danger of drowning and my emotions/thoughts getting the best of me. (I was in a swimming pool and almost drowned, but I felt an angel there with me in the water; it was an amazing experience!) Do you believe me? Many people don't believe it when people say they have seen/experienced angels or other amazing supernatural happenings. That's fine. I've heard of situations that make me skeptical of other people's accounts, but I wasn't there so...

 

Well, honestly, it's all to interpretation, so I cannot say you didn't experience an angel, demon or other mythical being. I can say that, had I had a situation arise where I felt an unearthly presence, I'd more likely attribute it to something tangible. But, as I said, it cannot be discounted as something else, because it cannot be proven, and is really based strictly on personal choice.

 

I'm sure you've heard the famous quote, "God works in mysterious ways." I know that's not a very good answer, but basically I do think that yes, God wants people in this time period to seek Him and believe without Him showing Himself physically to everybody.

 

Do I appreciate that? Not really It would be SO MUCH EASIER to believe in God if He would kindly show Himself so that people wouldn't think those who believe in Him are crazy but rather would believe too due to seeing!

 

Paul, in his letter to the believers in Romans, says that God can be seen through his Creation. While I personally understand and agree, I also completely understand why other people do not see God through Nature or Life. I think Atheists have very good reasons for not believing in God, but those reasons do not negate my experience with God. My experience with God, as well as the experiences of other people with God, prove to me that God exists and that He loves us, even though not everyone sees Him.

 

Personally, I consider "seeing God" to be like looking into a "spiritcope." To see things are too tiny for our eyes to see by themselves, we use a microscope. To see the stars and planets that are too far for us to see better with just our eyes, we use a telescope. In the same way, those who seek and look for God can find Him, through using their spirit.

 

Those who wrote about what they witnessed are doing the talking yeah, and those who hear/read what they say either believe that it really happened or they don't believe.

 

The issue I take with the happenings in ancient times and the seemingly absence of god on earth is that it seems to be entirely too convenient to the christian position.

 

Good yet sad question. I don't know.

 

Jesus was not pro-war. If he was, then he would have attempted to conquer the Roman Empire and destroy the Roman empire before the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem. The Roman Empire was oppressing his people after all. If he had for example led angels to destroy the Romans (which I think he could have done - Matthew 26:52-54), then I think all the Jewish people would have accepted him as the Messiah, and everyone would have feared him. He didn't do that though. If he had, that would have actually made him a hypocrite, since he told his followers to love their enemies. Loving someone doesn't mean killing them. Jesus' teachings and example focused on love. Jesus didn't kill anybody, but rather suffered by being tortured and killed.

 

As for pro-death, Jesus was for forgiveness and for people having the opportunity to repent. One can't repent and live God's way if he/she doesn't have the chance to do so.

 

Now, some Christians point out that when Jesus comes, that he will destroy his enemies (Psalm 2, Matthew 13:40-43, Matthew 25:31-46, Revelations). However, it's important to note that when Jesus comes back and destroys his enemies, he will be coming back as immortal... he is no longer under human limits like we are. Christians are under human limits though, and thus under the commands Jesus gave us to love our enemies and to forgive people when they hurt us. That's really hard, and it's interesting how it takes supernatural help to help us do what mortally is so difficult to do.

 

To answer your question, I think then a lot of the hypocrisy has to do with Christians trying to do what God does, trying to be little gods. God kills, same as God creates life. Does that mean we can kill? NO!!!

 

While I understand how many people (I included even though I'm a pacifist) would be willing to kill in order to protect others or ourselves (due to the instincts we have to survive and to protect our loved ones), the command of Jesus to love one's enemies is clear. So, if a Christian kills an enemy instead of loving him/her, then I think that is disobeying Jesus' commands to love that enemy and not following Jesus' example, where he did not fight to survive, but rather allowed himself to be tortured and killed.

 

You know through our discussions I'd rather never have war. Alot of evangelicals specifically are very pro war. Thank you for the response, and honestly, neither of us can answer it.

 

I don't know. That makes me really sad, and I don't understand it at all.

 

Agreed.

 

 

It's a shame, really.

 

The founding principle of Christianity is Jesus Christ and his fulfilling the Law and the Prophets.

 

Yes God creating the world is a principle that Christians ascribe to as well, due to Genesis, a manuscript that is thousands of years old! However, many Christians do not believe that Genesis is proven inaccurate by modern science. Rather, many Christians love science and believe science is based on observation and experimentation with what is observed.

 

Genesis however is not science, but rather the Hebrew account of how life began on earth. For some Christians, we believe God uses evolution in Creation. Some, including me, believe that Genesis 2 and 3 hint at micro-evolution.

 

Genesis is based on the oral recitations of the ancestors and descendants of Abraham, thought to be written down by Moses. Many Christians, including those who believe God used evolution in creating life on earth, do not believe that Genesis has been proved wrong by methods created by people of this time that attempt to measure the age of the earth. Rather, we see Genesis as a nonscience book that is part of the history of Abraham's ancestors and descendants.

 

 

We're more closer to the "end." Sounds ominous,but even many secular scientists believe disaster is imminent from different sources, including the sun, man-made inventions which damage the ecosystems of the earth, and so on. One example of the man-made inventions which has great potential to damage the earth is nuclear power. Japan has already suffered at the hands of nukes and nuclear plant damage.

 

I meant that the creation of earth and all creatures is a founding principle of the creationist agenda. I know it's not specifically the cornerstone of christian belief, but it is one of the foundation blocks.

 

As for "the end" science has proven that the sun will eventually engulf the planet. This is just a reality. In time and space, universes are exploding for reasons undescribed every 14 seconds or so. I question creation, as it doesn't seem too intelligent to design self imploding structures.

 

The following articles are sad but show that even though we are now living in times of wonderful scientific inventions, a few scientific inventions actually are hurting the earth and some of its inhabitants:So anyways, it's important to note that Genesis was written 3 to 5 thousand years ago, closer to the "beginning" of life on earth, and it is not a science book, but rather a historic explanation by the ancestors/descendants of Abraham. Can science go back and time to see how they offered such an explanation of the beginning of life on earth? I personally wish that time travel was possible. Who knows? Maybe someday it will be!!!

 

Personally, I really wish that people could travel back in time and have a "front-row" seat on how life came to exist on the earth, as well as how old exactly the earth is. I adore time machine movies because of that idea If I could go back in time, I'd love to go back to as close as the beginning as possible, as well as go back and see Jesus and follow him throughout his ministry!!!

 

As do I.

 

Anyways, thanks for the thought-provoking and interesting questions. I'm not attempting to try to persuade you to think/believe what I do, but am just trying to explain what I believe and why.

 

Thanks for the response. We can be civil after all

[pie2]

I think my definition is a rather standard one, that of the dead coming back to life.

 

elplague,

 

I think you have many great questions. And I understand how the Resurrection can be confusing...especially because I don't fully understand it myself ! From what I gather though, Jesus' Resurrection (I'll use a capital "R" for Jesus ) was anything but 'standard'.

 

As you mentioned, many people have been dead, and have been "made to stand again", or resurrected. The bible has examples of people being brought back to life, including the saints in Matthew 27:52-53 (which you posted), a son in 1 Kings 17:17-24, another son in 2 Kings 4:35, a daughter in Matthew 9:25, and countless others (though Paul's case is debatable !).

 

I would think it would be a terrible thing to bring them back into a world filled with pain, grief and sorrow.

 

God determines when and if a person will be brought back to life. As a Christian believer, the greatest joy will be to one day serve God in heaven. But, while we have life on this earth, our joy is to do God's will here. And though this life is filled with pain, a believer is grateful for whatever trails we face because, deep down, we all know that we deserve much worse than a few more moments on this earth. Also, if someone is brought back to life, it's not wholly about how happy it makes that person (or not), but also about how that person is being called to make additional contributions on earth (in one way or another)...for others (our lives aren't about just us...).

 

So, no, Christian believers wouldn't view being resurrected as a punishment.

 

Why is the resurrection this huge defining moment in Christianity?

 

 

 

 

 

Back to the original topic! Yes, there are countless examples of standard resurrection, but Jesus' physical and spiritual Resurrection was different in many ways:

• First, all of the abovementioned examples of resurrections involve people that evenutally died again, and whose bodies knew the death and destruction that has come with sin on this earth. Jesus's body, as known by numerous testimonies, rose again, and ascended into heaven, never knowing the decay that our bodies will know (Colossians 1:18, 1 Corinthians 15:20, Revelation 1:5, 18).
  
• Secondly, Jesus's physical Resurrection was much different than other people's resurrections, as he was made into a different physical form that could pass through walls, and yet be touched, and eat.
  
• Thirdly, God's own power Resurrected Jesus back to life, without any other intercession. Jesus was securely held in the tomb, and no one could have altered his physical state (Matthew 27:62-66). The disciples weren't expecting his resurrection in any way (though they had been told!) Read this for a great explanation.
  

I'm sure there are more ways that Jesus's Resurrection differed from the standard, 'everyday' resurrection, but the first reason is really the crucial one that Christians remember. Christ alone never knew death or decay, but completed the Creation that God established, in life, power, and mercy .

 

If someone is going to believe that Christ was Resurrected (as per the basis to your original question), based on the available evidence, it seems only logical to also believe all of the rest of the accounts, which state that Christ's Resurrection was anything but standard.

 

(elplague, if you made it this far...thank you, lol!)

Edited March 20, 2013 by pie2

[HogHead]

When ever a theist says that they would like to discuss their religion and the probability of a god with me I always warn them before hand that if we have the discussion that you will have a far greater chance of becoming an atheist than I becoming a believer.

Edited March 22, 2013 by HogHead