If he wanted to be with me, he would be with me

[VioletFemme]

I keep telling myself this.

 

It makes me angry.

 

Anger helps.

 

I've been in love before, and I've always WANTED to be with the person I love. Would have done what it took to be with the person I loved.

 

I'm in love with him (married but seperated man who is too passive to actually change the status quo and get a divorce.) He SAYS he loves me....but I keep mentally coming back to this idea.

 

He would make a place for me in his life, a real place, if he truly loved me.

 

He would make the necessary changes in his life to pave the way to be with me, if he wanted to be with me.

 

He hasn't, he doesn't.

 

If he WANTED to be with me, he WOULD be with me.

 

I'm angry.

 

And anger helps.

[twinsmom]

Unfortunately, they don't. I wished this for 3 1/2 years. They don't.

[woinlove]

I keep telling myself this.

 

It makes me angry.

 

Anger helps.

 

I've been in love before, and I've always WANTED to be with the person I love. Would have done what it took to be with the person I loved.

 

I'm in love with him (married but seperated man who is too passive to actually change the status quo and get a divorce.) He SAYS he loves me....but I keep mentally coming back to this idea.

 

He would make a place for me in his life, a real place, if he truly loved me.

 

He would make the necessary changes in his life to pave the way to be with me, if he wanted to be with me.

 

He hasn't, he doesn't.

 

If he WANTED to be with me, he WOULD be with me.

 

I'm angry.

 

And anger helps.

 

Good for you for acknowledging that you want and need more and for focussing on actions. If the actions and words don't line up, it makes sense to doubt the sincerity of the words. The anger means you know you want and deserve more, and that's good.

[hermione08]

Yes, you are right, it is that simple.

If you want to share your life (which as far as we know, is the only life we have) with someone else, you make it happen. No one is pointing a gun to his head, no one is forcing him to do otherwise, he just doesn't love you enough to make that change.

Love is not only the romantic feeling, it's also the proactive steps you take to build a life together.

Let's look at a great literary example: the great Gatsby

Now, Gatsby does anything to make it possible for him to get the woman he loves, while Daisy only wants the romantic ideal, but is not interested in actually sharing a life with a man who'd sacrifice anything for her.

This isn't love, it' something else. Love wants things to actually happen, not to stay only in fantasyland.

BTW: I hate Daisy, I think she deserves to be cheated on by her H for the rest of her life :)

[imperfectangel]

It's sad but this is what we need to remember whenever we're tempted to break nc.

 

I broke nc last week and he called me last week told me everything id ever wanted to hear and then some; but what has he done since then? That's right a big fat nothing and last night I again initiated nc

 

Words don't matter anyone can tell you what you want to hear but it takes a real man/woman to make that happen

 

Keep going the anger will help you.

[hermione08]

Yes, that's exactly what my exMM was always telling me: I'm always thinking about you, I'm only yours, I love you, etc. But then, surprise surprise, he was always going back home to his wife. Lip service, nothing more. Actions are the only things that matter.

Love is what love does.

Hugs.

[MissBee]

Wanting something but not doing anything about it isn't enough as you've realized.

 

Lots of people want lots of things...but sitting around wanting doesn't make it happen.

 

In a good relationship you need two people who not only want or love each other, but are also willing to put in real time work and effort to build a life together. Your MM is obviously not doing that...so really, how much does him wanting or loving you matter? Not much IMO.

 

I think it is indeed good to be angry and to decide you want more and that it's not working for you. Not everyone we love is actually a good fit for a relationship. You need someone you love, who loves you and more importantly whose life plans are compatible with your own. It seems like your MM is content with things as is, while you're not....and that may forever be that way. However, you have choices and options and I would never encourage anyone to believe that one person (esp one who is coming up short time and again) is their only hope for love, so they must hang on for dear life.

Edited July 21, 2012 by MissBee

[VioletFemme]

Thank you all.

 

I know I've oversimplified by stating this, but--it's also simply true.

 

Yes, life is complicated, and no, he can't drop EVERYthing to be with me...but to put so little effort in at all? To be so complacent? So passive?

 

It IS obviously working for him. It is obviously NOT working for me.

 

I can't be with him and not want to BE with him. It seems unnatural to me.

 

I'm not sure what comes next. I know that hearing from him does not bring me the same rush of purely positive emotions any more. I know that a part of me is standing back, saying "oreally? you don't know what love is if you think this is acceptable!!" I know that I'm discontent and dissatisfied.

 

I know that I deserve more.

[Got it]

OP - for me it broke down to just that as well. I like people that walk the talk.

 

I remember in the beginning he would quote the phrase, " some people talk about things happening, some people watch things happen, and some people make sh&t happen". I am not attracted to people who just watch and talk.

 

I am a simplistic person and I know if I want something bad enough I will make it happen, if I don't, or I have other things I want more, I don't follow up even if it sounds lovely.

 

I just know I am not telling someone I am going to do x, y, or z without being fairly certain those things are going to take place.

 

So, yeah, I looked at actions and energy into the relationship. If he wanted me bad enough he would catch up when I walked, if he didn't well his loss and I was better off not being tied to a fool.

[MissBee]

Thank you all.

 

I know I've oversimplified by stating this, but--it's also simply true.

Yes, life is complicated, and no, he can't drop EVERYthing to be with me...but to put so little effort in at all? To be so complacent? So passive?

 

It IS obviously working for him. It is obviously NOT working for me.

 

I can't be with him and not want to BE with him. It seems unnatural to me.

 

I'm not sure what comes next. I know that hearing from him does not bring me the same rush of purely positive emotions any more. I know that a part of me is standing back, saying "oreally? you don't know what love is if you think this is acceptable!!" I know that I'm discontent and dissatisfied.

 

I know that I deserve more.

 

That feeling was the beginning of the end for me. Even in a non-A scenario i was in as well. You just get worn out and tired. What was once enjoyable just seems very trivial in comparison to your larger feelings of discontent.

 

Yes life is complicated---all of us are living it, and all of us have trials and hardship and difficulties---so it is really quite irritating when people bring that up as an excuse. From you're living, you're not exempt and you most likely have some experience of hardship. Yet, the fact that millions in spite of hardship show effort, divorce, make changes etc. is a testimony to the saying that "Where there is a will there is a way". It just seems that your MM lacks the will.... and when you lack that, even the easiest thing becomes insurmountable. When you lack the will you will be the first to look for the excuses as to why not. People with will look for every reason why they should...that is the difference!

 

You do deserve more. No point in being in a one-sided arrangement where you're the one compromising and settling and he is getting all that and more so has no desire to change. Life's too short to waste on ONE man.

Edited July 22, 2012 by MissBee

[MissBee]

Looking forward to a great update

 

Sometimes you have to go through the ringer more than once. But I think with each time you become less and less tolerant and gain more strength, so I do wish you luck and know you'll eventually come to a decision in your best interest.

[half_ofa_heart]

YellowShark: You know, everyone in life has their ups and downs. I came here for help or support in a moment of struggle for me, and you think that's the right time to call me a "piece of ass?" Examine your motives, heart, and character, please; you surely seem to be lacking some positive character traits, some spark of goodness, some compassion--items which are necessary to be a GOOD, decent, worthy person.

 

For a life lesson, I do hope that someday you'll know how that feels: to be kicked when YOU are down. You would deserve it. I'm sorry for you--I (the person you called a "piece of ass") feel pity for YOU. How does that feel--to know that a "piece of ass" pities YOU? I may have made some interesting, strange, and even bad choices--but neither my heart nor my soul is wounded or depleted, as yours appear to be. I feel so very sorry for you.

 

I'm going to get through this just fine, and STILL be a good person on the other side. Can you say the same?

 

"What I say is true, even if you don't agree.;)"

 

MissBee, Got It, LadyGrey, Silly_Girl, trinity1, and hermione08, I thank you for your words, given with wisdom, kindness, compassion--I appreciate you giving GRACE to a fellow, failable human being. For in the end, aren't we all--failable, learning every day of this crazy life?

 

I've been riding that emotional roller coaster since February--the ride many of you warned me about then. I've been back and forth so many times, but in the end, I see that I am sitting here waiting...and waiting...and life is passing me by, and it keeps going, and what am I waiting for? I'm missing out right now, and I don't want to miss out.

 

trinity1, a word to you: I thank you for being the devil's advocate, so to speak; the lone voice of dissent. I hear you saying that this MIGHT be enough--to be grateful for love, what ever form it takes. I see you saying that about your own story, and I hope you continue to feel that way always. I just know: it's not enough for me. I want it all, and if I can't have it all with him, I'll have to say "thanks but no thanks" and try to find someone I CAN have it all with.

 

I'm probably not done. I haven't decided to cut him out of my life altogether yet. So, realistically, I could get reeled back in...for another go-round on the crazy train.

 

Maybe not though. Maybe this is it.

 

I'll keep you all posted.

 

VF, I've been where you are (more times than I care to remember) and anger does help but the part that you really need to tap into isn't so much about how he feels about YOU because at the end of the day... its all about how YOU feel... PERIOD!!! We tend to focus on the words they tell us rather than the way they TREAT US! If you are left feeling second, then guess what???? Not sure about you but that doesn't leave me feeling "loved".

 

I can tell you that in 3 years, I gave a whole lot more love than he gave me. He took all the love I was giving him, and gave it to his wife. I was everything she wasn't to him and in turn enabled him to stay in his marriage. More times than not, its not intentional for them, they just doing what they need to do to get their needs met.... isn't it time you do the same for YOU?!?!?!?!? Good luck sweetie! I don't envy your position.

[skywriter]

Yellowshark, A good, decent, worthy person doesn't have an affair with a married man. They know right from wrong and have a value system which doesn't allow them to sneak around behind the back of some guys wife.

 

Whoa!!! I know I am not a looking at a perfect person when I look in the mirror.

 

I am not a stupid person, but I made a stupid choice. I have appreciated alot of your input in many threads &, maybe I'm interpretting this reply incorrectly. I'd like to think so....

 

Please, be careful when you judge another, unless you've walked in their shoes.

 

...and I don't gang up on anyone. I prefer to just be myself.

[skywriter]

VioletFemme, he wanted to be with me, he would be with me

I keep telling myself this.

 

It makes me angry.

 

Anger helps.

 

I've been in love before, and I've always WANTED to be with the person I love. Would have done what it took to be with the person I loved.

 

I'm in love with him (married but seperated man who is too passive to actually change the status quo and get a divorce.) He SAYS he loves me....but I keep mentally coming back to this idea.

 

He would make a place for me in his life, a real place, if he truly loved me.

 

He would make the necessary changes in his life to pave the way to be with me, if he wanted to be with me.

 

He hasn't, he doesn't.

 

If he WANTED to be with me, he WOULD be with me.

 

I'm angry.

 

And anger helps.

 

.....Violet, anger does help and I had to get angry to stop being complacent, making exceuse for the exMM and get on with my life.

[sleepie]

Looking forward to a great update

 

Sometimes you have to go through the ringer more than once. But I think with each time you become less and less tolerant and gain more strength, so I do wish you luck and know you'll eventually come to a decision in your best interest.

 

Yes, I agree. Sometimes you do have to go through the ringer more than once, but you will grow less tolerant each time.

 

Anger can help. I know it fuels me sometimes during my moments of weakness. I simply repeat to myself "He's a douchebag. He's a douchebag. He hurt you and used you and cared only about himself."

 

Whether or not it's true, as long as I believe it I find extra strength there.

 

Stay strong. And listen to the people here who wish they had gone NC sooner rather than later. It's hard, I know, and you'll have weaker moments. But the most important thing is to learn and grow from this.

[SoMovinOn]

Some people go to extremes, they truly do whatever they have to be with the person they love ... like, murder. So, while it's a nice fairy tale to believe someone who loves you will do anything they have to, it's really not at all realistic. As I just said in another response to another thread, real life happens, even when you're in love. There are other factors to consider, other than being in love. One *could* do anything necessary to be with the one they love, but, that may not be the best thing for them, for the relationship, for the future...

 

You don't say what he isn't with you... Maybe it's because he doesn't want to. Maybe it's because he can't. Maybe it's because it's not the right thing to do right now. Only you and he can decide those things.

[VioletFemme]

Some people are not worth replying to.

 

To anyone who isn't full of half-informed judgement, and cares to know, my "married man" is separated, living apart from his family for almost two years now, but hasn't had the heart or courage or will or something to make the ultimate decision to divorce. Which leaves him still married, yes, but living a separate life from his estranged spouse. I understand how hard it must be to make that final choice. Aren't I in the same boat--with him? Personal experience gives me understanding and even compassion for where he is; but it still leaves me wanting more than I'm getting.

 

To those who've offered support, wise and informed opinions, or encouragement (skywriter, sleepie, and SoMovinOn) thank you. I appreciate it more than you know. I come here every day to remind myself, in case I forget, in case I begin to falter or lose courage. Your words help.

[neveragain2012]

This is way too simplistic. There is no reason to doubt he wants to be with you. Likely, however, there are things that are more important to him than his desire to be with you. Doesn't mean that he doesn't love you. I can understand though that fueling your anger like this helps you stay away from him.

 

 

It is simplistic but it's true. If someone wants to be with you they will be. Where the problem lies is...at what cost? Sometimes they decide the cost is too high to be with the person they want so they stay, or leave.

 

Some WS's, even if honestly in love with their AP's, decide losing their family, kids, status, home, whatever, is too high a price to pay. They are putting that need above the need to be with you. Priorities.

 

Some WS's decide that their marriage is such disarray, which is what led them to the A in the first place, that they have to divorce even if the AP doesn't want them. The price of staying in a dysfunctional relationship is too high.

 

BS's make the same choice after Dday. What price do they pay to stay vs go. It's all balance and what is MOST important to them.

 

My xMM used to say it was selfish for him to divorce. He'd be letting down everyone, hurting a lot of people, just to make himself happy. So I got hurt instead. He decided he could live with hurting me more than hurting whomever else was affected. I understand his decision but it also put into perspective where I ranked in his life. And, like you stated, I'm not saying he didn't love me, I believe he did, but alas, it wasn't enough.

 

All decisions, not just those in affairs or marriages, ALL decisions come down to "What can I live with?" Ultimately you will choose what means the most to you.

[MissBee]

It is simplistic but it's true. If someone wants to be with you they will be. Where the problem lies is...at what cost? Sometimes they decide the cost is too high to be with the person they want so they stay, or leave.

 

Some WS's, even if honestly in love with their AP's, decide losing their family, kids, status, home, whatever, is too high a price to pay. They are putting that need above the need to be with you. Priorities.

 

Some WS's decide that their marriage is such disarray, which is what led them to the A in the first place, that they have to divorce even if the AP doesn't want them. The price of staying in a dysfunctional relationship is too high.

 

BS's make the same choice after Dday. What price do they pay to stay vs go. It's all balance and what is MOST important to them.

 

My xMM used to say it was selfish for him to divorce. He'd be letting down everyone, hurting a lot of people, just to make himself happy. So I got hurt instead. He decided he could live with hurting me more than hurting whomever else was affected. I understand his decision but it also put into perspective where I ranked in his life. And, like you stated, I'm not saying he didn't love me, I believe he did, but alas, it wasn't enough.

 

All decisions, not just those in affairs or marriages, ALL decisions come down to "What can I live with?" Ultimately you will choose what means the most to you.

 

Excellent post!

 

Very true and I've always said that. While the person may care, we all have priorities and things we care about more than others. Since we can't have it all, we keep and then put aside other things based on how important they are to us. We decide what can we live with or what can't we live without and then cut things out and make choices based on that.

 

A MP may love their AP but realize they can live without them but cannot live without their family, lifestyle, seeing their kids daily, wife/husband etc. If you're not someone's choice, what's certain is that whatever else they chose over and against you, were things that ranked higher and they felt they'd be at more of a loss giving up. That's the simple truth and how we all make tough choices.

[sleepie]

It is simplistic but it's true. If someone wants to be with you they will be. Where the problem lies is...at what cost? Sometimes they decide the cost is too high to be with the person they want so they stay, or leave.

 

Some WS's, even if honestly in love with their AP's, decide losing their family, kids, status, home, whatever, is too high a price to pay. They are putting that need above the need to be with you. Priorities.

 

Some WS's decide that their marriage is such disarray, which is what led them to the A in the first place, that they have to divorce even if the AP doesn't want them. The price of staying in a dysfunctional relationship is too high.

 

BS's make the same choice after Dday. What price do they pay to stay vs go. It's all balance and what is MOST important to them.

 

My xMM used to say it was selfish for him to divorce. He'd be letting down everyone, hurting a lot of people, just to make himself happy. So I got hurt instead. He decided he could live with hurting me more than hurting whomever else was affected. I understand his decision but it also put into perspective where I ranked in his life. And, like you stated, I'm not saying he didn't love me, I believe he did, but alas, it wasn't enough.

 

All decisions, not just those in affairs or marriages, ALL decisions come down to "What can I live with?" Ultimately you will choose what means the most to you.

 

I agree with this 100%.

[sleepie]

I'd like to add that I agree with the priority thing, but I also understand why it's hard for people to accept, or why people don't want to believe this. When I realized it, it all boiled down to one thing: He didn't love me enough. He loved something else more. (Yeah, yeah, me and my "love continuum" again. lol) It was hard for me to accept that there was something else (his W and kids) that mattered more to him, when for so long he gave me the song & dance about how deeply he loved me, how important I was, how he'd do anything for me, bla, bla, bla. It's hard to accept that we aren't a priority to the person we've made the top priority in our lives. Hard, but the truth.

[frozensprouts]

OP,

 

it sounds like you love him and, on some level he loves you.

 

But like the say8ng goes, sometimes love isn't enough. He may love you in as much as he is capable of loving someone, but it my not be the kind of or quality of love you want.

I hope you are able to move on from this, painful as it may be to do so, to new and better things...you'll find the kind of love you want and you'll be able to use what you have learned from this relationship to help you do just that.

[Radagast]

I keep telling myself this.

 

It makes me angry.

 

Anger helps.

 

I've been in love before, and I've always WANTED to be with the person I love. Would have done what it took to be with the person I loved.

 

I'm in love with him (married but seperated man who is too passive to actually change the status quo and get a divorce.) He SAYS he loves me....but I keep mentally coming back to this idea.

 

He would make a place for me in his life, a real place, if he truly loved me.

 

He would make the necessary changes in his life to pave the way to be with me, if he wanted to be with me.

 

He hasn't, he doesn't.

 

If he WANTED to be with me, he WOULD be with me.

 

I'm angry.

 

And anger helps.

 

Anger certainly helps. Righteous indignation helps more. It helped me to dump my ex-wife and walk away without looking back. It helps in making a quick, clean break, if that is what you're looking for.

 

But anger can also be a trap. I am largely indifferent to my ex-wife now, but do still find myself seething with rage on occasion, which still cedes power to her and gives her a toe-hold in my headspace, which is not what I want. Ultimately, I want to be free from her entirely, to have no emotions, no memory, no connections of any kind with her at all. That day will be a blessed victory, but I'm not yet there. I dream of the day, though.

 

Violet, the anger may help in the short-term. But the anger is still a connection. When you're finally done with him, if that is your aim, you'll be beyond even that.

 

With regard to your particular circumstances, there have been other "other women" in the past who were quite happy to enjoy relationships with separated men who for reasons of their own did not take the final step toward divorce. And some who claimed to be, but then later came to change their mind and express disappointment or anger at his reluctance or refusal to divorce. Either way is fine. If you're tolerant of his status and have no intention of marrying, it's not big deal, but if it matters to you and he is unwilling to address something that matters so much to you, he is signalling to you that he does not take your concerns very seriously. Which is a relationship issue far bigger than marital infidelity. It shows selfishness and a lack of empathy and a strong communication to you that your needs or desires come way below his.

 

Yes, this may make you angry. It may disappoint you, or it may hurt you. Either way, you are seeing the limits of his ability to love you as you would wish to be loved and respected. If it matters to you, as it seems from your post, then you are right to walk away and to signal that you are not prepared to accept the priority ranking he assigns to you and your feelings. I wish you strength, and peace.

[2sure]

Long term affairs usually dont get to be long term affairs if its just about sex. For an affair to be satisfying, there has to be an emotional element to it. Real or percieved, mutual or not, based on love or affection, gratitude or friendship. Something. It has to make a person feel special or there isnt much to be had from it.

 

If OW doesnt feel special, then its an ego feed for MM.

If she does feel special, then its working for her too.

 

Its when OW comes to the point where she is (or has) invested in the relationship but no longer feeling special that she should dump it. Why on earth not?

 

Sure, accept your part in all of it , how it has affected you, the good and the bad, embrace it , take the lesson if any.

But , if you arent feeling special and he still is...yeah, he is a douche. He is a villain. But...whose fault is that?

 

All this, does he love her , does he show it...whatever. Its an affair. It either moves forward or it doesnt. It works or it doesnt.

 

The very thing that makes an affair attractive in the beginning is the same thing that can break hearts in the end. Its different than a marriage because when its over...you can just walk away. No obligations.

 

I see so many OW here really frustrated that there isnt much they can do ultimately, to change the terms of their relationship - except leave.

[half_ofa_heart]

Long term affairs usually dont get to be long term affairs if its just about sex. For an affair to be satisfying, there has to be an emotional element to it. Real or percieved, mutual or not, based on love or affection, gratitude or friendship. Something. It has to make a person feel special or there isnt much to be had from it.

 

If OW doesnt feel special, then its an ego feed for MM.

If she does feel special, then its working for her too.

 

Its when OW comes to the point where she is (or has) invested in the relationship but no longer feeling special that she should dump it. Why on earth not?

 

Sure, accept your part in all of it , how it has affected you, the good and the bad, embrace it , take the lesson if any.

But , if you arent feeling special and he still is...yeah, he is a douche. He is a villain. But...whose fault is that?

 

All this, does he love her , does he show it...whatever. Its an affair. It either moves forward or it doesnt. It works or it doesnt.

 

The very thing that makes an affair attractive in the beginning is the same thing that can break hearts in the end. Its different than a marriage because when its over...you can just walk away. No obligations.

 

I see so many OW here really frustrated that there isnt much they can do ultimately, to change the terms of their relationship - except leave.

 

EXACTLY to the bolded above!!!!! Both parties involved in an affair are selfish to a degree and when one of those parties is no longer getting anything positive out of it, why on earth stay in it????

 

Took me TOO DARN LONG to figure that one out