BW and OW Meeting in Person - More detailed update.

[Owl]

I think MM and MW have to lie to all involved. Quite often there is no evil intent and they are simply swept by the affair.

 

I discovered my wife's long distance affair (man in another country) by highjacking her email account without her knowledge. There were hundreds of emails because this was before the days of frequent texting.

 

I believe my ex wife lied to single OM to keep the flame burning and to keep the affair going. I don't believe she lied on purpose. I read the whole thing from beginning to end and I felt she was truly in love. The whole thing was flowery and full of soul mate statements, etc.

 

However, on d-day she threw OM under the bus and he was devastated. I read all the emails past d-day. Cake eaters are perfectly capable of lying and loving the person that feeds the cake eating. I don't believe they lie in a calculating manner.

 

I'll disagree. They do have to lie in a calculating manner...or else they'd get caught.

 

I'm not saying that they don't love the OW/OM, or that they don't love the BS.

 

Those emotions have nothing to do with the requirement to lie (intentionally) in order to keep the status quo and maintain both relationships.

 

The only reason that they WOULDN'T have to lie is if they made a choice to end one of the relationships and pursue the other. Once that choice is made...the need to maintain the illusion is over...the need to lie is no longer there. But as long as they maintain both relationships...they lie. And...if they feel there's ANY need to do so...they'll lie to both 'lovers' in order to maintain that situation.

 

I'm not calling them evil...but I AM calling them deliberately deceptive...and the belief that they'll "lie to her, but they'll always be honest to me" is just deliberately deceiving YOURSELF so that you can avoid the truth about their actions/motives and feel more comfortable with the situation.

[GettingTired09]

Good morning all. Here I am, another day, another dollar. I had a dream about him last night, in which of course, he asked for my forgiveness and tried to justify his reaction to my backstabbing and hurting his family. I need to stop thinking about him but I guess it will not happen overnight. What hurts the most is the way I was treated by the person that continuously said I was everything to him. If I could only fastforward time.

[alexandria35]

Why would a married man ever have to lie to his lover? I can understand him having to lie to his wife but if he and his lover have agreed on the terms of the relationship and they both keep to them, there would be no need to lie. Of course some people are just pathological and no doubt some amongst those have affairs, but I'm talking about normal men having normal affairs rather than the pathological extremes. In most cases, especially the normal ones, it is not in the married man's interest to lie to his lover. It is in his interest to have at least one relationship where he can be completely honest and authentic in a way that his marriage denies him.

 

There have been many many OW/OM who have posted here who have been devastated by the lies their MM/MW have told them. There is nothing extreme about it. It is the norm.

[canuckprincess]

My mm didn't lie to me. He has always been open and honest to the best of my knowledge. Ok before you jump all over me I should say I've never caught him in a lie.

[Got it]

I think MM and MW have to lie to all involved. Quite often there is no evil intent and they are simply swept by the affair.

 

I discovered my wife's long distance affair (man in another country) by highjacking her email account without her knowledge. There were hundreds of emails because this was before the days of frequent texting.

 

I believe my ex wife lied to single OM to keep the flame burning and to keep the affair going. I don't believe she lied on purpose. I read the whole thing from beginning to end and I felt she was truly in love. The whole thing was flowery and full of soul mate statements, etc.

 

However, on d-day she threw OM under the bus and he was devastated. I read all the emails past d-day. Cake eaters are perfectly capable of lying and loving the person that feeds the cake eating. I don't believe they lie in a calculating manner.

 

???? I didn't lie especially to my AP. I don't see the correlation that because you lie to one person it is a given you lie to everyone. That can happen but it doesn't necessarily happen.

 

Each person and situation is different but I had no reason to lie to him. Ironically that was one of the pieces that was so freeing about my relationship with him, I didn't have to lie. I could be me and not worry about the foundation that is already set up, protecting his feelings, etc. I could be 100% me and see how that went over. Because it was an affair, and I thought initially it would only be a fling I never thought he would still be in the picture. So I got to try "me" out for size and see if it scared the bejeezus out of him.

[woinlove]

My mm didn't lie to me. He has always been open and honest to the best of my knowledge. Ok before you jump all over me I should say I've never caught him in a lie.

 

And? How is that relevant to this thread? Is your message to GettingTired - to get a "better" MM like "yours"? The point is that GettingTired's MM did lie. GettingTired no doubt felt the same way you do now in earlier months, but now she knows differently. What is your point with respect to this thread because GettingTired is feeling very bad and I don't see how one-upping her on MM behavior helps.

[Got it]

And? How is that relevant to this thread? Is your message to GettingTired - to get a "better" MM like "yours"? The point is that GettingTired's MM did lie. GettingTired no doubt felt the same way you do now in earlier months, but now she knows differently. What is your point with respect to this thread because GettingTired is feeling very bad and I don't see how one-upping her on MM behavior helps.

 

I think canuck's post is in response to alexandria's belief that it is the norm for all MM to lie. Neither post was about/towards the OP specifically.

[alexandria35]

???? I didn't lie especially to my AP. I don't see the correlation that because you lie to one person it is a given you lie to everyone. That can happen but it doesn't necessarily happen.

 

Each person and situation is different but I had no reason to lie to him. Ironically that was one of the pieces that was so freeing about my relationship with him, I didn't have to lie. I could be me and not worry about the foundation that is already set up, protecting his feelings, etc. I could be 100% me and see how that went over. Because it was an affair, and I thought initially it would only be a fling I never thought he would still be in the picture. So I got to try "me" out for size and see if it scared the bejeezus out of him.

 

But you just posted on another thread that you left your husband within a few weeks of starting your affair. That isn't typical and it's not really comparable to an MM/MW who is juggling both the marriage and the affair over an extended period of time. I think the MM/MW who don't want to leave their marriage or they are not ready to leave for whatever reasons, will lie to hang onto both the marriage and the affair and it doesn't matter to them who they need to lie to, so long as they aren't forced into a decision or giving something up.

[Got it]

alexandria,

 

In my reading, Pierre wrote towards all MP, so I was giving a different insight on it. We are now going to qualify affairs based on their longevity? I cheated, I cheated while with my spouse, it went on for a few (6) weeks. I personally feel that puts me in the same boat as others.

 

Have you been in an affair? Have you been the WS? In this case a WS may know a little better how they fare compared to another who has walked down the same path.

[woinlove]

I think canuck's post is in response to alexandria's belief that it is the norm for all MM to lie. Neither post was about/towards the OP specifically.

 

Alexandria's post referred to the many posts we see here where OW/OM, like GettingTired, are devasted by the lies they are told. It can help GettingTired to know she is not alone -- because it is a simple fact that many, many OW have been the recipient of MM's lies, just like GettingTired has. I just can't see the point of getting on a thread by such an OW with nothing to say but the idea that either one specific MM didn't lie or more generally that some small fraction of MM don't lie. How can this possibly help GettingTired? And yet, a number of posters seem to be doing just that? What is this -- have to make a positive plug for MM even when presented with an example of an abusive, lying MM (which, as I said is not that uncommon).

 

Perhaps some who feel compelled to post in support of MM in general or their "own" MM in particular, should start a thread on how good they think MM are and leave this thread for things that can help GettingTired in the pain she is feeling right now.

Edited July 27, 2012 by woinlove

[stillwater]

In my reading, Pierre wrote towards all MP, so I was giving a different insight on it. We are now going to qualify affairs based on their longevity? I cheated, I cheated while with my spouse, it went on for a few (6) weeks. I personally feel that puts me in the same boat as others. .

 

Of course we are, at least to some extent. Six weeks isn't a very long affair at all, and it's easy to see how one could not lie at all during that time -- "I love you, I want to be with you, ok I left my M now, here we are". But to keep someone on the hook for many months or years? I don't see how that's possible without some amount of lies, manipulations, etc as others have pointed out. If the MP is honest from the beginning (my M isn't really that bad, we still have sex, we still go places as a M couple, I love you but it's not enough to leave my M even though I'll tell you I'll leave soon, blah blah blah) who would stay involved?

[stillwater]

It always amazes me how any OW or fOW can trust the BS.

Perhaps GettingTired shouldn't trust the BS, but from her story she DEFINITELY shouldn't trust the MM.

[Got it]

Maybe instead of us thinking we know what GettingTired wants, needs, feels we let the lovely lady speak for herself.

 

((((getting)))

 

I hope you are feeling a little better today. remember it's like the ocean, the waves come fast and strong in the beginning but the storm will pass, the waves will slow, and the sun will come out again.

[Got it]

Of course we are, at least to some extent. Six weeks isn't a very long affair at all, and it's easy to see how one could not lie at all during that time -- "I love you, I want to be with you, ok I left my M now, here we are". But to keep someone on the hook for many months or years? I don't see how that's possible without some amount of lies, manipulations, etc as others have pointed out. If the MP is honest from the beginning (my M isn't really that bad, we still have sex, we still go places as a M couple, I love you but it's not enough to leave my M even though I'll tell you I'll leave soon, blah blah blah) who would stay involved?

 

Actually that isn't too uncommon where those perimeters are put in place well other than the "I will tell you I will leave soon" bit.

 

But anyway, I am done with my share of the thread jacking. My apologies Getting Tired.

[alexandria35]

alexandria,

 

In my reading, Pierre wrote towards all MP, so I was giving a different insight on it. We are now going to qualify affairs based on their longevity? I cheated, I cheated while with my spouse, it went on for a few (6) weeks. I personally feel that puts me in the same boat as others.

 

Have you been in an affair? Have you been the WS? In this case a WS may know a little better how they fare compared to another who has walked down the same path.

 

Nope I haven't been a WS. However you had a six week affair, which doesn't make you an expert on long term affairs. I still maintain that if a person wants to keep their affair partner while staying in their marriage, telling lies to both the BW and the AP is going to be a part of that in most cases.

[whichwayisup]

Good morning all. Here I am, another day, another dollar. I had a dream about him last night, in which of course, he asked for my forgiveness and tried to justify his reaction to my backstabbing and hurting his family. I need to stop thinking about him but I guess it will not happen overnight. What hurts the most is the way I was treated by the person that continuously said I was everything to him. If I could only fastforward time.

 

It'll take time to process this stuff and go through the stages of grief, so there's rush to push yourself through this. Take each day as it comes and do keep a journal handy so you can write down your thoughts/feelings and even write to him but never send it. Theraputic reasons only! Please reach out to close friends and family too..Don't isolate yourself. Make sure to laugh each day..Grieving and feeling awful 24/7 isn't good.. I'm sure you have a friend or two who can bring a smile to your face and make you giggle.

 

My mm didn't lie to me. He has always been open and honest to the best of my knowledge. Ok before you jump all over me I should say I've never caught him in a lie.

 

Omitting truths is just another way of lying. Keeping you (general you) out of the loop.

[MissBee]

There have been many many OW/OM who have posted here who have been devastated by the lies their MM/MW have told them. There is nothing extreme about it. It is the norm.

 

It is indeed normal that MM lie, omit, downplay or exaggerate. I am sure not every single one does, but many do. I am sure there are As where a MM has no plans to leave, loves his wife and wants some on the side and admits this and the OW goes along with it happily. I'm sure there are some where he is unhappy and is planning to leave and he does, so doesn't have to lie to his OW. Then I am sure...as LS proves, there are lots of cases where MM have no plans to leave, aren't out of love etc. but in order to maintain their A, with an OW who wants a relationship out of the A, they have to be "creative".

 

Many many stories are told on here about what the OW/BS found out was omitted by MM, flat out lied about or more often than not, exaggerated.

 

In my case, I can't think of things I found out were complete lies...but I know lots that were omitted and downplayed. He simply would avoid telling me about some things or leave out certain details etc. He did things in such a way where I couldn't accuse him of "lying"....he simply knew how to say things that were open to interpretation and of course made sure I leaned towards the interpretation that was wrong .

 

When one is imagining some person who is out of love with their spouse, who is their roommate, who is just waiting another second to divorce...it seems like why would they ever lie?! Yet the truth and fact is, many MP, if not most, continue to stay married and continue to maintain TWO relationships. That is, they go home to a wife that they treat like a wife and not a roommate and for all intents and purposes are "happily married". My exAP surely did. He never acted like he stopped loving her and wanted to leave....at least he was honest about that, he maintained that he "loved me too". Many MM also feel this way...yet that sounds less romantic to admit that and most OW don't want to simply be someone who is loved too, but most want to be loved more than the wife or think well he loves her but is not "in love" with her. So I think many MM for this reason would rather omit that they bought the wife flowers last week, they had sex last night, he doesn't really want a divorce but an A and the list of lies, omissions, exaggerations or downplaying can go on. The affair where a MM is maintaining two relationships and is with an OW who very much considers him her main boyfriend she loves and wants to be with, has every reason to omit truths, if his OW won't be happy with the truth. That's the bottom line of why people lie often: because they think someone won't be happy with the truth and they will have to face unpleasant consequences if this person knows the truth, like that person making a choice they don't want them to make. A lot of people also assume people will or won't be okay with certain things, which may not be true, and just lie from the jump about it and never give them the choice.

Edited July 28, 2012 by MissBee

[2sunny]

My mm didn't lie to me. He has always been open and honest to the best of my knowledge. Ok before you jump all over me I should say I've never caught him in a lie.

 

Does he keep you secret? Does his wife openly know about you?

[whichwayisup]

Ok before you jump all over me I should say I've never caught him in a lie.

 

He lies to his wife, the woman he said vows to in front of family and friends. What really makes you believe that he wouldn't lie or omit truths from you as well? Do you think you're more special and have shared more with him than his own wife?

 

Never say never. There have been many OW and OM on here who claimed the same as you - And sadly for them, they found out many lies and omissions from their MM/MW.

[2sure]

If someone tells a small lie, or lies about harmless things, or exaggerates the truth...even to a distasteful point, I don't think it is to be assumed he would lie to everyone .

 

It's the people capable of such huge fabrications and coverups that you can bet will lie to anyone. The main part of their talent is in convincing people they are honest.

 

Don't feel foolish, it's what they do.

[Got it]

Nope I haven't been a WS. However you had a six week affair, which doesn't make you an expert on long term affairs. I still maintain that if a person wants to keep their affair partner while staying in their marriage, telling lies to both the BW and the AP is going to be a part of that in most cases.

 

I had a six week affair before I left my marriage. The affair was little longer than a year before he left his.

 

Do I get my merit badge yet?

[alexandria35]

I had a six week affair before I left my marriage. The affair was little longer than a year before he left his.

 

Do I get my merit badge yet?

 

I don't understand. You said you never lied to your AP. I merely pointed out that you were only in your affair for a few weeks before leaving your husband and therefore you never had a reason to lie to your AP to spare his feelings, to keep him hooked, to appease him, etc.. I'm not sure why your now discussing how long his affair was. We were talking about you. I guess you want me to admit that you are right and I am wrong. Okay I will. You had a 6 week affair and therefore you are all knowing about all wandering spouses. Since I have never been a cheating spouse I am bumbling idiot about all things to do with human nature and matters of the heart. You have earned your cheating wife merit badge, wear it proudly.