Ready to call it quits after 17 years

[BrokenBike]

So - since YOU aren't happy with the way things are - what are YOU planning to DO to change things?

 

I'm trying not to rush my decisions but I suppose I would state my plan as:

 

1. Seek counseling to at least get some sort of confirmation that I am thinking clearly
   
2. Decide if I really want to pursue divorce as my solution to this.
   
3. If I decide I do, then begin the task of writing up a proposed division of assets hoping I can arrive at an amicable agreement. Though this part is hard - because what really is fair? I am only going to try to get as much as I can agreed upon. It won't be easy without meaningful communication. I expect this part to be hard.
   
4. Go and see the lawyer.
   
5. Start seeking a new place to live.
   

I don't have it planned much beyond that. I don't want to try and project the outcome.

[BrokenBike]

Excuse me, separate vacations and getting a tramp stamp while on it--without consulting you-- means your wife is definitely cheating on you, or trying to. Forget about the $200, that's trivial. She got the tramp stamp because her lover that she met on that vacation told her it would be sexy if she did it. Or to attract one or more other guys. She's trying to compete with the other slutty girls.

 

Same thing with the grill. It's not the money. It's that she had "friends" coming over, she is probably doing these "friends" or thinking about it. Guys don't go over to a married woman's place and do things like build brickwork for grills unless they are getting the puss or angling for it, or she's holding it out for them as an incentive.

 

Your wife sounds like a serial cheater which fully explains her emotional distance from you.

 

Get out now. Don't waste another minute of your life on this relationship or this woman.

 

One of the guys is her girlfriend's husband. This work was done while I was away on my separate vacation. I'm actually mad at him as well for doing the work - he knows it is my home as well and should have been smart enough to at least ask if the bricks were something I would have approved of. I'm not going over to his house and painting a room some other color while he's at work. The other guy is this dark cloud piece of bad luck she's known since childhood. She's not banging either one behind my back here.

 

The tat was done by the son of a friend she is going to see when she heads back to Florida in a couple weeks. He too should have had enough sense to advise her to maybe call and check with her husband. He's met me - he should know. I'm angry with him in a big way for drawing all over the small of my wife's back. I hate the tattoo.

 

She's always been somewhat narcissistic - but I seriously doubt she's sleeping around. She's complained about the lack of sex - but she's not that sexual a person. I know the affections dried up with me and I would wager if I at least gave her that, she'd find a sexless marriage tolerable. My problem is I have let the resentments build for so long now that the affection feels feigned when I try it - and I don't want to fake it. I want to feel something behind it.

[BrokenBike]

have you pointed out to her what the issues really are here?

 

i get checking out, it's a natural response. but from what you've told us...

 

a) she is still behaving like a college girlfriend, at 50. identifies happiness with shopping and you spending money on her.

b) she is, at 50, sexually repressed despite being in a 17 year marriage. i'm guessing the reason for the sexlessness is your not desiring her to get pregnant and her refusing birth control on religious grounds?

c) she is carrying half a century of catholic guilt around and refusing to accept that you might not agree with her. the fact that you don't share that catholic guilt/shame is incomprehensible to her for whatever reason, she assumes you should agree with her and if you don't it's your fault.

 

and when offered to see a counselor about these issues she refuses because that's a threat to the guilt trip.

 

correct any part that's wrong.

 

if the above is true, does she realize that she's leaving you no way but out?

 

A lot of our common friends would describe her as "youthful" - and yes, I think she is a lot more materialistic than I, but she has a lean towards quantity over quality in what she gets as well. One of her big excitements about going back to Florida is that "they have flea markets there!!". Wow...travel all that way and...

 

I do enable her to the money thing to some degree, but we've kept our finances generally separate. And she did contribute to the mortgage when we had one, and still splits most of the utility bills and health insurance expenses with me. Most of what I spent on her is taking her out to eat. Otherwise we pretty much each get what we want with our money - but I've socked away a lot more.

 

She used birth control early on in our courtship and marriage - it eventually stopped when we felt we were established enough that if it happened, we'd be OK. I've thought of the Catholic guilt thing, and I am sure it plays a part in this somehow, but maybe she is best described as a Cafeteria Catholic, meaning she takes the parts she likes and ignores the rest. I would press it further and criticize it as religion by rote, meaning she finds her belonging in the rituals of the religion such as attending mass, singing the hymns, etc - even if she isn't much of a biblical scholar.

[2sunny]

Separate vacations? And now she's got an excuse to go back again to the same place? And she got a tattoo there without even discussing it with her H?

 

Seems to me her OM may very well be living in/and/ or visiting Florida with her.

 

I'd hire someone to follow her while she's there.

 

It's not looking like a marriage at all.

[BrokenBike]

Separate vacations? And now she's got an excuse to go back again to the same place? And she got a tattoo there without even discussing it with her H?

 

Seems to me her OM may very well be living in/and/ or visiting Florida with her.

 

I'd hire someone to follow her while she's there.

 

It's not looking like a marriage at all.

 

Naah, she's going down to visit her friend with her Mom. Her friend has been divorced five or six times now (I think once to the same man, so I sort of lose track) so I suppose she'll have plenty of good advice for her. *sarcasm*

[2sunny]

I get the feeling you aren't looking at what's really happening here.

[BrokenBike]

I can tell what you are suggesting. But at this stage, even if it was true, would I blame her for it? Last summer I was the one that went on a two week bike trip alone. It was one of the best trips I have ever taken. This summer, I tried to repeat that trip with two other friends, but the bike broke down. Hence my name here. Like I said....I checked out. I know the people she will be visiting but I really doubt there is anything like that going on down there. She'll need someone if I go. If she wants to get a head start on that....that's hers to do I guess. I've got many years with her. I know you think she's off with someone else already but that just ain't her.

[Ladydrib]

Hit a nerve there Abe....she comments on menopause with an "I can't wait" attitude. I am sure it has its advantages, but her comments don't make me feel all that great.

 

 

On first pass I interpreted this as "go out and re-marry a hot, passionate 32 year old" but upon closer inspection you did not say that. That sounds really awesome too at the moment - but I still won't ditch the idea that marriage isn't about growing old together. Don't get me wrong - sex is important too - but I need the emotional and intellectual stimulation and the sense of connectedness to have it be fulfilling. I'd be lying if I told you there wasn't a real fear of leaving and then never finding anyone again - even if I am not really in the mood of late as to think about such things.

 

You are right. It should be deeper than what that last person described. I'm glad to read your response. Don't let that poster's negativty towards your wife make you mistake your fear of how much worse it could be for feelings of satisfaction for your wife.

 

Maybe you are satisfied with her. But my impression, based on your words, is that you are unhappy. You've tried for very long to make it work. You now realize nothing will change. You are left with making a decision on, is this enough? Or do you need more in your life? You know you need more, but there's always the risk you'll get less. So then the question turns to, "is the opportunity for more, worth the potential of achieving the worst case scenario?". This is a difficult position to be in. But what is even worse, is staying in that position for the rest of your life. Find a way to be happy and at peace in your marriage. If that sounds laughable, then you know you need to take that risk. You have nothing to lose. Good luck. Please wish me luck too. :-)

[scatterd]

It seems Gunny is very educated on relationships he gave good advice. I was thinking also you need to reconnect and go out more often. If you take time for each other in a romantic environment it helps you bring back feelings. Its easy to get stuck in a rut and after awhile the relationship is stale and boring. I am not the best at relationships myself but this was advised to my husband and I from a counselor. We have been married 19 yrs and hope you both can do that and even longer. It has taken work we sure have had our share of ups and downs also .It seems the more time you have to think about the bad the worse it gets

Try to save money to get a way once in awhile. That seems to help with communication also.

Edited August 3, 2012 by scatterd

[2sunny]

I can guarantee a woman is VERY SEXUAL When she's with a man she's ATTRACTED to!

 

Either way - you and your wife aren't doing things to BE CONNECTED WITH EACH OTHER but quite the contrary! Taking separate vacations and making personal decisions without even discussing it with your spouse just screams that there's really no marriage happening there.

 

IF you two are so intent to live such separated lives - I don't see any beauty in staying married. It's really a farce as far as the intention of what I view marriage to represent... Which is connecting with another on such a deep level that the other person makes ME want to SHARE MY LIFE with THEM - and that I'm willing to consider their feelings as much or even more so than my OWN! And that that person makes me a better person than I THINK I am by their love and loving behavior and support. And that I WANT to share MY life with that person above anyone else!

 

I don't see those qualities in your marriage happening - from what you've described...

[Gunny376]

Despite the naysayers to the contary, we as individuals do have the capacity to rule our emotions and feelings. Albiet its does require a serious level of self control, self discipline, and control of one's self talk (the internal dialog/conversation we all carry around inside of our heads. But most of all it requires practice, practice.

 

As we allow ourselves to think, ~ so we believe ~ as we believe ~ we become. Thus most people in truth? Most people are about as happy as they make their minds up to be. Its really up to you.

 

The human minds doesn't make internal value judgements, and raw emotions aren't right or wrong ~ they're just emotions. But we have control over how we handle and approach those emotions, and what emotions ~ i.e. thoughts we permitt to run through our heads. That is our never-ending ~ looping internal dialog.

 

If one concentrates and constantly runs a "negative tape" through that they're fat, ugly, over-weight, and un-attractive? Guess what? They are.

 

But if one runs positive thoughts? Then they believe that which they allow themselves think ~ and as they think is how they become.

 

Case(s) in point? Woody Allen, Gene Weilder, etc ~ not exactally what anyone would call the most drop-dead guys around? But none the less they've never have had a problem in attracting some of the most drop dead HotBabes X 10 women on the planet. Ditto with what our pop-culture deem as the so-called norm.

 

In the OP's case ~ if you want to "get back that loving feeling" then its very much a case of "action preceding feeling" in that you have to committ to the act of being loving ~ before you feel it.

 

Over the course of twenty years in the United States Marine Corps I have trained literally tens of thousands men and women who are thought "I can't!"

 

"Can't couldn't because 'Can't" NEVER tried.

 

"Whatever the mind of man can conceive of? The Mind of Man Can Achieve!"

 

Some good books on th subject ~

 

Napoleon Hill's "The Power of Postive Thinking" (Its in its like 35 or 45th edition)

(Sorry Forgot the Author's Name) ~ "Self Talk"

 

Just about anything my Dale Carniege (Course are still offered throughout the United States and GB. )

 

If you or anyone wants to re-vitalize your marriage ~ your life? Start acting it out ~ ven if you don't feel like it.

 

And NO when we train people to become Marine? We DON'T Brainwash them! We teach them to BELEIVE IN THEMSELVES ~ PUSH THEM TO THEIR UPMOST MENTAL, EMOTIONAL, AND PHYSICAL LIMITS ~ DEMONSTRATE TO THEM THEIR POTENTIAL IS GREATER THAN THEY EVER IMAGINED POSSIBLE!

 

And it all begins with teaching them mental and emotional self discipline!

[BrokenBike]

At the start of the thread I said : What I am hoping from the forum is this: You ask me the hard questions - force me to be sure I am thinking about what I need to be thinking about.

 

But my impression, based on your words, is that you are unhappy. You've tried for very long to make it work. You now realize nothing will change. You are left with making a decision on, is this enough? Or do you need more in your life? You know you need more, but there's always the risk you'll get less. So then the question turns to, "is the opportunity for more, worth the potential of achieving the worst case scenario?". This is a difficult position to be in. But what is even worse, is staying in that position for the rest of your life. Find a way to be happy and at peace in your marriage. If that sounds laughable, then you know you need to take that risk. You have nothing to lose. Good luck. Please wish me luck too. :-)

 

So - since YOU aren't happy with the way things are - what are YOU planning to DO to change things?

 

These two are the ones I am thinking about the hardest.

I read the stats about half of all marriages failing and part of me starts to think "well it was just a flip of the coin, wasn't it?".

I drove to see Mom last night. Talked to her about it. She reminded me it takes two.

 

I have a lot of guilt about leaving. I really don't think she's the type of person that can be without someone else. She always surrounds herself with others - to a fault I would say. The idea that maybe I have been an enabler to her seems to ring true and I mentioned that idea to Mom - talking about how maybe leaving her would give her the opportunity to learn to do things on her own. Kind of like NW was talking about earlier:

 

Some days were definitely worse than others, but by him leaving, I think it forced me to "grow up". I couldn't be the passive, comfortable stay-at-home mom anymore. I had responsibilities, a divorce to negotiate, bills to pay - and tomorrow I start the first full-time job I've had in fifteen years, in the career I love.

 

Mom shook her head no one that one. Told me she'd likely just move to the next person.

[2sunny]

What YOUR W does is UP TO HER.

 

Decide what YOU want - ASK your W what SHE wants! Have an HONEST conversation.

 

Then devise a plan to either BE TOGETHER or NOT.

 

What's the point in being together when you're not really together? ... Unless that works for both of you...?

 

No one can tell YOU what's right for YOU - but YOU KNOW! So decide and make action plans happen to obtain the goal.

[DuckSoup]

Woody Allen, Gene Weilder, etc ~ not exactally what anyone would call the most drop-dead guys around? But none the less they've never have had a problem in attracting some of the most drop dead HotBabes X 10 women on the planet. Ditto with what our pop-culture deem as the so-called norm.

I wouldn't call either Gilda Radner or Soon Yi Previn "drop dead hotbabes" nor even anywhere close.

 

Besides, they (Allen and Wilder) are both relatively famous and compared to ordinary Joes are both wealthy.

 

Women will disregard the fact that a man is not physically attractive if he is 1) famous 2) perceived as powerful 3) in entertainment/show business 4) is for all intents and purposes "wealthy" compared to the average man

 

I never thought mia farrow or louise lasser were particularly attractive either. Woody got Diane Keaton, who WAS attractive in a certain way back in the Annie Hall/Godfather days (but by no means could be considered a "hotbabe"), because he directed her in Annie Hall. Directors f*cking their female stars is a tradition in Hollywood. It's part of female hypergamy.

[BrokenBike]

I went to the counselor today.

 

We discussed things - I even linked him to this thread before attending the session to give him some background. I think as a first meeting it went well. I am satisfied with his insights and see no reason not to continue with him as I wander through this.

 

The takeaway from this session was that I need to start taking actions. I can't think or analyze my way through this - I actually have to take some steps and do something. He can't decide for me what is right or wrong. That is up to me. As I take actions, there will be results from those actions. At that point there can then be more thinking, deciding, and again acting.

 

He said I am thinking clearly.

 

My next action is going to be to schedule a visit with the lawyer. I am going to discuss what steps I need to take to write up a plan to divide the assets. I need to know what my financial picture is going to look like before I can know what type of budget I am going to have to find a new place to live. I will get that on the calendar and simply do it.

 

It was painful to say some of the things I needed to say there today. The hurting is by no means over. But those who have walked this path before me have assured me that you can come out all right on the other side.

[2sunny]

I think you need to look within... Trust your gut.

 

Action is always useful...so decide what your aim island move towards the goal with action.

 

Do you plan to divorce your W? If so, when do you plan to tell her?

 

If so, I'd plan to separate finances before your wife moves all assets to her name only. For me, I moved my half a few days before telling him. I felt I was fair... I left him his half - the we divided money from the sale of properties evenly as they sold.

[BrokenBike]

I do plan to divorce my wife. I told her this a few weeks ago. It was said in heat, I was angry. I did go and see a lawyer, making the initial consultation. I am going to now schedule the next appointment and take the next step.

 

The process of dividing the assets is going to be hard because I am going to be left to do it myself. She is only thinking of her trip to Florida and "will deal with this when I get back". That said, nothing is moving forward unless I do it.

 

Actions...

 

Most of our finances have always been in our own names - the house and a brokerage account the only joint accounts. I am not worried about her trying to drain the brokerage account. The idea is to divide things up fairly - whatever that might mean. She claims she wants to stay in the house, which is OK by me - but then I start thinking about the other assets. Is a 50-50 split really what is "Fair"? I understand that she did contribute - and deserves to not be left hanging - but then again - it was I that saved rather than spent - and I earned more. Is giving up 50% really what is "fair"? I know there will be opposing perspectives on this - opinions welcomed - but please also include the reasoning?

[eeyore1981]

I do plan to divorce my wife. I told her this a few weeks ago. It was said in heat, I was angry. I did go and see a lawyer, making the initial consultation. I am going to now schedule the next appointment and take the next step.

 

The process of dividing the assets is going to be hard because I am going to be left to do it myself. She is only thinking of her trip to Florida and "will deal with this when I get back". That said, nothing is moving forward unless I do it.

 

Actions...

 

Most of our finances have always been in our own names - the house and a brokerage account the only joint accounts. I am not worried about her trying to drain the brokerage account. The idea is to divide things up fairly - whatever that might mean. She claims she wants to stay in the house, which is OK by me - but then I start thinking about the other assets. Is a 50-50 split really what is "Fair"? I understand that she did contribute - and deserves to not be left hanging - but then again - it was I that saved rather than spent - and I earned more. Is giving up 50% really what is "fair"? I know there will be opposing perspectives on this - opinions welcomed - but please also include the reasoning?

 

BBM

 

It depends what the laws are on this where you live. I do get what you are saying, though, as I've made pretty much the same money my H has, but he's spent a lot and I've saved a lot, and he'll end up getting half of my savings, which IMO isn't fair at all, but it is what it is.

[BrokenBike]

She was "out with the girls" last night - yet five 2:00am text messages from "Brett" this morning. Based on how things have gone - I should be upset, but I'm not. Something in me wants to text him back though - just to tell him he needs to layoff until the dust has cleared here. Do I have anything to gain there? Or am I just looking for pleasure in being a d**k?

[2sunny]

There would be no point in responding to him or to her.

 

You told her you wanted a D - now she's acting on that. Expect her to spend time and energy getting multiple men to pay attention to her.

 

Stay busy. Move forward.

[thatone]

She was "out with the girls" last night - yet five 2:00am text messages from "Brett" this morning. Based on how things have gone - I should be upset, but I'm not. Something in me wants to text him back though - just to tell him he needs to layoff until the dust has cleared here. Do I have anything to gain there? Or am I just looking for pleasure in being a d**k?

 

you could turn the phone off and start taking away other things that you pay for, then when she starts fights about that tell her you want the divorce done NOW.

 

other than a bargaining tool, not really.

[BrokenBike]

She returned home from a week long vacation to a Petition and Summons for the Dissolution of Marriage. I told her to expect it over the phone two days before she came home. This lead to a tearful exchange. The night she arrived home, after a surreal dinner with both of our mothers present, we had at least what I thought was a meaningful and heartfelt conversation. She said she had mixed emotions - but that isn't translating into any sort of 'I will attend MC with you' or 'Let's try to work on this' nor 'proceed with this and get this over with' it just seems like she is trying to keep it on hold. I am going to give her a few more days to think about this. I would try to work it if she seemed sincere about wanting to - but if I don't see her press for that on her own without any suggestion or hints from me my next step is to pay the court filing fee.

 

Where I am at today....I would:

 

• Put this on hold if she agreed to attend either IC or MC
  
• Continue with this if she said she will not attend IC or MC
  
• Accept an extension in her response to the Petition if she needed it
  
• Begin negotiating the division of our stuff
  

Is there anything else anyone might suggest I do at this stage?

[Gunny376]

Stay strong and resolute to your latest list of options that you posted. But none the less stay the course and let her know that your serious about either her getting on borad and fixing what needs fixing ~ or moving on with your life. Life truly is just too damn short to do otherwise. (It REALLY is!)