Rejection feeds one's insecurities

[ptp]

Guys do most of the asking and thus are ones who get rejected the most.

 

Some guys are short and when they get rejected, the first thought is that it was due to their height. Other guys are overweight or uneducated and some guys are flat out ugly. Regardless of the true reason, every rejection makes you feel worse about whatever you are insecure about.

 

The sting of rejection has held me back for a long time. It is partly due to some very negative experiences with women in the past. I truly believe that the whole positive/negative reinforcement from women early in life has a huge impact. It has gotten so bad that I rarely ask women out unless I am very sure she is going to say yes.

 

How do I deal with this, how do I prevent rejection from feeding my insecurities and making me feel a whole lot worse?

[writergal]

Guys do most of the asking and thus are ones who get rejected the most.

 

Some guys are short and when they get rejected, the first thought is that it was due to their height. Other guys are overweight or uneducated and some guys are flat out ugly. Regardless of the true reason, every rejection makes you feel worse about whatever you are insecure about.

 

The sting of rejection has held me back for a long time. It is partly due to some very negative experiences with women in the past. I truly believe that the whole positive/negative reinforcement from women early in life has a huge impact. It has gotten so bad that I rarely ask women out unless I am very sure she is going to say yes.

 

How do I deal with this, how do I prevent rejection from feeding my insecurities and making me feel a whole lot worse?

 

Sorry to hear about your dating difficulties ptp. I think the best, most proactive (and unfortunately, most difficult) decision is to: feel the fear (asking women out on dates) and do it anyway. Why? You need to re-condition your mind (wow, I sound like Tony Robbins, ha) to believe that you are not the sum of your negative dating experiences from your past. Those women who rejected you, do not define who you are to yourself.

 

If you're too scared to ask women out, you will never get over your fear. I know it's hard not to internalize the rejection you get from women. But I think if you are internalizing those feelings (i.e. my negative experiences with women in the past means I'm a loser, I'm not relationship material), then you're defining yourself based on other people's standards. Don't do that because that's what creates a cycle of low self esteem, when you let other people's treatment of you define who you are.

 

So my advice to you is to feel your fear, face it, and go out there and start dating again; start with small coffee dates, nothing too serious. The only way to get over your dating slump is to get back out in the dating game. Eventually you'll start having positive experiences again. It just takes time.

Edited July 26, 2012 by writergal

[ptp]

Thanks for your response WG.

 

Sorry to hear about your dating difficulties ptp. I think the best, most proactive (and unfortunately, most difficult) decision is to: feel the fear (asking women out on dates) and do it anyway. Why? You need to re-condition your mind (wow, I sound like Tony Robbins, ha) to believe that you are not the sum of your negative dating experiences from your past. Those women who rejected you, do not define who you are to yourself.

 

I don't experience fear. What I mean by that is, it isn't like I feel extremely nervous asking someone out, it isn't like I don't know what to say or do. It is more along the lines, of I don't expect a good outcome so I would rather avoid it to spare my feelings.

 

If you're too scared to ask women out, you will never get over your fear. I know it's hard not to internalize the rejection you get from women. But I think if you are internalizing those feelings (i.e. my negative experiences with women in the past means I'm a loser, I'm not relationship material), then you're defining yourself based on other people's standards. Don't do that because that's what creates a cycle of low self esteem, when you let other people's treatment of you define who you are.

 

It might sound strange, but I don't feel that way at all. In fact I believe the opposite, I do feel I am great relationship material, I do think I can make somebody very happy. That is primarily due to the fact that in the few relationships I have been in, that is the positive feedback I have gotten.

 

How do I not define myself according to other people's standards? I feel that since one hits puberty, you are defining yourself according to who you can or can't attract.

[writergal]

Thanks for your response WG.

 

Sure thing, ptp. You seem like a really cool guy who just needs a pep talk about getting back into the dating game. I really think you're letting the past prevent you from moving forward. That's all I meant with my post.

 

I don't experience fear. What I mean by that is, it isn't like I feel extremely nervous asking someone out, it isn't like I don't know what to say or do. It is more along the lines, of I don't expect a good outcome so I would rather avoid it to spare my feelings.

 

Ah, but you do. because you won't ask women out anymore unless you know they'll say yes. (Someone who isn't afraid of rejection, won't let a "no thanks" deter them from trying again.) Now you're just back peddling, silly.

 

Reread what you wrote in your first post:

 

The sting of rejection has held me back for a long time. It is partly due to some very negative experiences with women in the past. I truly believe that the whole positive/negative reinforcement from women early in life has a huge impact. It has gotten so bad that I rarely ask women out unless I am very sure she is going to say yes.

 

How do I deal with this, how do I prevent rejection from feeding my insecurities and making me feel a whole lot worse?

 

Fear is an emotional response to a known threat. A woman's rejection of you, is the known threat. To avoid this known threat, you have stopped asking women out on dates unless you think they'll agree to go out with you.

 

It might sound strange, but I don't feel that way at all. In fact I believe the opposite, I do feel I am great relationship material, I do think I can make somebody very happy. That is primarily due to the fact that in the few relationships I have been in, that is the positive feedback I have gotten.

 

It does sound strange because it sounds like you're back peddling again. Are you sure you aren't on a stationary bike right now?

 

You're contradicting yourself again. Earlier you wrote that your past rejection has prevented you from asking women out unless you think they'll say yes. Now you're saying that you're great relationship material because you've had positive feedback from women who've been in relationships with you.

 

Say you didn't get positive feedback. Would you still think you are a good catch? Or do you base your relationship ability on external positive feedback only?

 

How do I not define myself according to other people's standards? I feel that since one hits puberty, you are defining yourself according to who you can or can't attract.

 

Well, you shouldn't have to define yourself according to other people's standards to be liked for who you are; that's external validation and it's superficial. Peer pressure during puberty is not really different then the need to conform as an adult.

 

To answer your question, the way you prevent women's rejection from baiting your own insecurities, is to not put any value in their rejection of you. I said this in my initial post, but probably wasn't clear: don't internalize women's "no's" as validation of your insecurities. Does that make sense?

 

Dating is a numbers game of odds. The only way to beat the odds, is to ask women out when the opportunity presents itself, when the interest is there. Not every woman you ask out on a date will say yes. There's no guarantee that she will.

 

I think you need to develop a thicker skin, and not take a woman's "no" so personally anymore. Their "no" isn't about you. It's about them not perceiving you as someone they would click with.

 

Same with the odds of a job interview. You'll either be offered the job or you won't. Are you going to avoid going to job interviews because there's a chance you won't get it? Then you'll never be employed. Same with dating. If you want to be in a relationship you have to face your fear of rejection from women by continuing to ask them out, because eventually the right one will say yes, and you'll have a great relationship that you said you've had before with women.

[todreaminblue]

Guys do most of the asking and thus are ones who get rejected the most.

 

Some guys are short and when they get rejected, the first thought is that it was due to their height. Other guys are overweight or uneducated and some guys are flat out ugly. Regardless of the true reason, every rejection makes you feel worse about whatever you are insecure about.

 

The sting of rejection has held me back for a long time. It is partly due to some very negative experiences with women in the past. I truly believe that the whole positive/negative reinforcement from women early in life has a huge impact. It has gotten so bad that I rarely ask women out unless I am very sure she is going to say yes.

 

How do I deal with this, how do I prevent rejection from feeding my insecurities and making me feel a whole lot worse?

 

Quoting You...I truly believe that the whole positive/negative reinforcement from women early in life has a huge impact. It has gotten so bad that I rarely ask women out unless I am very sure she is going to say yes.....end of quote.

 

So you know that many men have had this issue of negative reinforcement.....when any gender is conditioned to feel bad about themselves, constantly or regularly they are then damaged goods you have to take as much time as it took to get you to that place to recover.To find your confidence to surround yourself with awesome friends(if your friend zone is depleted join the groups and interests you are passionate about you will have a full house) and your favourite family members who can make you laugh spebnd time with them.Regain the confidence you have had taken away from you by rejection that you weren't equipped to handle.

 

 

What equipment is necessary to be able to handle rejection?

Being able to accept yourself for who you are and what you can bring to a relationship to not need that relationship to complete you and make you feel worthwhile.....

Knowing without a doubt that you could bring joy to someone else in a relationship they are lucky if they say yes.

If you are healthy and fit you will not need to work on this.

If you know that you need to work on it you should work on it if you feel active and healthy it does boost confidence.

 

Treat yourself you deserve to feel good about yourself.

You know what you think about you would like to work on that would help you feel better.

This is why I mention active and fitness and health.

If you go out to get more active join groups even just walk to the park,

You will have more chance to interact with females opening conversations to help build your confidence.

 

Don't expect anything just enjoy getting to know like-minded people male and female.Your windows of opportunity become so much bigger also easier, and you have no expectations or chance of rejection,

you are just being open and friendly

There is always possibility if you are out there meeting others who cross your path or you cross theirs.

 

First step. Look after you.....good luck....deb.

.

[Emilia]

Guys do most of the asking and thus are ones who get rejected the most.

 

Not being asked out when you are working for it is rejection too. When I'm talking to a guy at a party flirting with him and he goes to talk to another girl, I feel rejected as well.

 

Some guys are short and when they get rejected, the first thought is that it was due to their height. Other guys are overweight or uneducated and some guys are flat out ugly. Regardless of the true reason, every rejection makes you feel worse about whatever you are insecure about.

 

Yes. I wonder whether it's my age. I'm 40 and sometimes I think a man I like isn't asking me out because he thinks I'm too old.

 

The sting of rejection has held me back for a long time. It is partly due to some very negative experiences with women in the past. I truly believe that the whole positive/negative reinforcement from women early in life has a huge impact. It has gotten so bad that I rarely ask women out unless I am very sure she is going to say yes.

 

How do I deal with this, how do I prevent rejection from feeding my insecurities and making me feel a whole lot worse?

 

By talking to lots of different types of men any way I can.

[betterdeal]

Apparently, the way meditation works is that it focuses the cerebral part of the brain on something relatively benign or irrelevant, allowing the rest of the brain to settle down. That makes us feel at peace because we aren't then feeding lots of self-reinforcing loops that consist of thoughts -> feelings -> thoughts -> feelings (rinse and repeat).

 

It's my contention that hobbies, interests, sports, drinking, drugs, work in a similar way. Now you *could* choose to get high, but that comes with its own challenges; or you could pick up a hobby that more often than not rewards you, and (a) concentrate your thoughts on that, and gain the meditative effect or (b) enjoy the doses of dopamine and serotonin that you get when you do something pleasing.

 

Or, in plain English, don't worry about it, and go do something less annoying.

[ptp]

First step. Look after you.....good luck....deb.

.

 

Thanks for your response deb, I do feel that I am good in relationships and do offer someone a lot. After my longest relationship ended, my ex told me that I was one of "best people she knew" and that she would always love me. Even during our relationship we would fight just like every normal couple, but we never let things get nasty. After we broke up still had a lot of trust in each other.

 

It is positive reinforcement like this that gives me confidence when I am in a relationship. My problem, as I see it, is getting the relationship started.

 

Yes being healthier is a goal of mine, though I am not out of shape, I can always try to improve myself.

[todreaminblue]

Thanks for your response deb, I do feel that I am good in relationships and do offer someone a lot. After my longest relationship ended, my ex told me that I was one of "best people she knew" and that she would always love me. Even during our relationship we would fight just like every normal couple, but we never let things get nasty. After we broke up still had a lot of trust in each other.

 

It is positive reinforcement like this that gives me confidence when I am in a relationship. My problem, as I see it, is getting the relationship started.

 

Yes being healthier is a goal of mine, though I am not out of shape, I can always try to improve myself.

 

 

you know what this post made me smile so thank you I always give credit where credit is due( i also rhyme alot lol)....I smiled because I see someone who has already begun a journey.....accepting yourself is always enlightening accepting imperfections and concentrating on becoming the best that you can be and feel.....who doesn't want to get to know that person.....you only get one life you better enjoy it while you can....hugs to ya......good luck..deb

[ptp]

Or, in plain English, don't worry about it, and go do something less annoying.

 

So I was thinking about what you said. If someone calls me stupid or dumb, I can do exactly what you say, which is not worry about it. Unfortunately, if I get rejected by a woman it almost always plays on my mind for a very very long time.

 

It feels worse if the woman is someone I know and someone whose personality I genuinely like.

 

So maybe I shouldn't get to know the women I want to ask out? That way there is less attachment and since those women wouldn't know me, they would be rejecting only the outer shell rather than the whole person.

[betterdeal]

If you could feel that feeling, be that impressed and like someone as much as you do, and when it goes tits up, you could feel genuine feelings like you do now but, unlike now, you could get through that better, would you?

 

See, it might be you decide to change what you do with other people, like you suggest, or maybe you decide to change what you do with your feelings. Personally, I found it hard to accept that if I wanted the good feelings I had to accept the bad ones too (and it's still a work in progress) but I choose that path and I like it. Of course, you could choose to experiment a bit and change both a bit and see what works for you.

Edited July 27, 2012 by betterdeal

[ptp]

If you could feel that feeling, be that impressed and like someone as much as you do, and when it goes tits up, you could feel genuine feelings like you do now but, unlike now, you could get through that better, would you?

Yes, but I also don't think you can control feelings. In the past when I have experienced heart break with a girl that I had genuine feelings for the only thing that fixed it was time. A lot of time, too much time and I don't wish to go through that again.

 

See, it might be you decide to change what you do with other people, like you suggest, or maybe you decide to change what you do with your feelings. Personally, I found it hard to accept that if I wanted the good feelings I had to accept the bad ones too (and it's still a work in progress) but I choose that path and I like it. Of course, you could choose to experiment a bit and change both a bit and see what works for you.

 

Yes, but what if the good severely out weigh the bad? For example maybe for you for every 2 women you ask out one is a negative and one is a positive.

 

For another person it could be for every 5 they ask out, 4 are negatives and 1 is a positive.

 

4 heart breaks for the possibility of one good relationship? That isn't worth it for me. Especially considering if I genuinely care about a girl, it will take me months to get over her.

 

So I am kind of stuck.

[betterdeal]

I agree with you: I don't think we can control our feelings.

 

But we can shape them, and we can believe they are not us, just as our bank balance is not us; they are part of our lives, but they are not our selves. If you have that then you're well on your way finding a way to live a happier life. If you have that, your feelings don't control you.

 

And if your feelings don't control you, who knows how things will turn out with women who you like?

[ptp]

I agree with you: I don't think we can control our feelings.

 

But we can shape them, and we can believe they are not us, just as our bank balance is not us; they are part of our lives, but they are not our selves. If you have that then you're well on your way finding a way to live a happier life. If you have that, your feelings don't control you.

 

And if your feelings don't control you, who knows how things will turn out with women who you like?

 

I don't think I follow. How do you shape your feelings? Your bank account may not define you, but if it is trending towards 0 you still have to deal with the ramifications.

 

How do you shape the stomach churning sickness that prevents you from eating or the sleepless nights wondering why you aren't good enough for the person you care about? You still have to experience that don't you?

[betterdeal]

I don't think I follow. How do you shape your feelings? Your bank account may not define you, but if it is trending towards 0 you still have to deal with the ramifications.

 

How do you shape the stomach churning sickness that prevents you from eating or the sleepless nights wondering why you aren't good enough for the person you care about? You still have to experience that don't you?

 

Hey, ptp, sorry for the delay. I've been largely unplugged this weekend and glued to the Olympics coverage. Okay, let me see ... continuing with the bank account analogy, if it's heading south, you could get depressed, feel ashamed or guilty and curl up into a ball, but that won't help much, or you could accept that it sucks and then think of ways that you need to reduce your outgoings or increase your income, and then do some of the things you think of and see what works.

 

The same with these feelings you have: I'm not talking just about the darkest moments, but the whole show, from the moment you set eyes on someone you find good looking onwards. You may feel, say, "wow, what a sexy chick!" and then you decide what to do next. You can choose to do what you normally do, now, and the outcome will probably be much the same as it is now, or you can decide (for example) to accept that you like the look of her, but not to get carried away with that feeling.

 

And maybe you can also look at things from a different angle: rather than looking at this as your next ticket to redemption, think about it as, hmm, maybe she is right for me, I'll give her a chance to make her case, and you can reveal a bit of yourself to her at a time, rather than throwing the whole lot on display to begin with. And as time goes by, you may both find you're revealing a little more of yourself to each other, creating a bit of a rhythm of give and take.

 

And if it turns out that, well, it wasn't going to go any further than it did, you step back, consider what you learnt, compose yourself once again, and try something different.

 

I get the impression you believe some things that make these awful experiences you have inevitable : first, you believe that for feelings to be genuine you have to act in a certain way; and second, you believe that if someone rejects you it's all about you. That makes rejection leading to behaving like you are physically ill inevitable. It may also be that those beliefs are part of why you are rejected (if indeed you are rejected for something you did rather than something going in her life that has nothing to do with you).

 

Out of interest, say you were physically ill, bent over double with a sore stomach, unable to sleep, what would you do? Would you spend your time blaming yourself for it, or would you look for ways to get over the problem?

[ptp]

The same with these feelings you have: I'm not talking just about the darkest moments, but the whole show, from the moment you set eyes on someone you find good looking onwards. You may feel, say, "wow, what a sexy chick!" and then you decide what to do next. You can choose to do what you normally do, now, and the outcome will probably be much the same as it is now, or you can decide (for example) to accept that you like the look of her, but not to get carried away with that feeling.

 

And maybe you can also look at things from a different angle: rather than looking at this as your next ticket to redemption, think about it as, hmm, maybe she is right for me, I'll give her a chance to make her case, and you can reveal a bit of yourself to her at a time, rather than throwing the whole lot on display to begin with. And as time goes by, you may both find you're revealing a little more of yourself to each other, creating a bit of a rhythm of give and take.

 

And if it turns out that, well, it wasn't going to go any further than it did, you step back, consider what you learnt, compose yourself once again, and try something different.

 

That doesn't really happen to me. If I start down the path of getting to know a girl, I make a decision either I am going to get know her, but then never ask her out or before I get to know her I am going to ask her out.

 

The 1st case is because I was put in the friend zone and I am not doing that again. While in the 2nd case I will get rejected like I was a few months a go with this girl who I really liked.

 

Getting reject is bad but, being put in the friend zone is the worst. I never want to slowly get to know a girl and then start develop feelings for her later on.

 

I have a lot of guilt associated with that too, because it feels like I am getting to know someone as a friend and build up trust as friend. I shouldn't then turn that into something more sexual with her. It would be like deceiving her.

 

I get the impression you believe some things that make these awful experiences you have inevitable : first, you believe that for feelings to be genuine you have to act in a certain way; and second, you believe that if someone rejects you it's all about you.

 

Isn't that a logical conclusion to draw? If a girl is single and looking and she doesn't want to date a guy, it is because the guy isn't up to her standards. So it is all about the guy.

 

I am not exactly sure what you are getting at when you say this:

first, you believe that for feelings to be genuine you have to act in a certain way;

 

 

That makes rejection leading to behaving like you are physically ill inevitable. It may also be that those beliefs are part of why you are rejected (if indeed you are rejected for something you did rather than something going in her life that has nothing to do with you).

 

Out of interest, say you were physically ill, bent over double with a sore stomach, unable to sleep, what would you do? Would you spend your time blaming yourself for it, or would you look for ways to get over the problem?

 

I would look for a way to get over the problem.

[betterdeal]

That doesn't really happen to me. If I start down the path of getting to know a girl, I make a decision either I am going to get know her, but then never ask her out or before I get to know her I am going to ask her out.

 

The 1st case is because I was put in the friend zone and I am not doing that again. While in the 2nd case I will get rejected like I was a few months a go with this girl who I really liked.

 

Getting reject is bad but, being put in the friend zone is the worst. I never want to slowly get to know a girl and then start develop feelings for her later on.

 

I have a lot of guilt associated with that too, because it feels like I am getting to know someone as a friend and build up trust as friend. I shouldn't then turn that into something more sexual with her. It would be like deceiving her.

 

See, the problem is, as I see, is you're indulging romantic feelings and magnifying them internally, before you've expressed them (subtly, flat out, verbally, non-verbally, whatever way you choose). There are several possible problems with that: one, by the time you do express them you've developed them so much that when you do it freaks her out just how intense you are about it; and two, you're hiding your feelings and that makes you up tight, miserable, non-spontaneous, and that turns her off; and three, you're so busy keeping a cork in the volcano inside that you fail to notice the moments when she's flirty, horny, open to suggestion; and four, yes, she may well just not be that into you and yet you're spending your time and energy focusing on her.

 

Men and women have sexual feelings. We are sexual beings. Plenty of couples start as friends and later on get it on. And even when you're part of a couple, you'll probably have sexual feelings for others from time to time. But they are just feelings. It's what we do that matters. If you learn how to let go of a feeling now while you're single you'll be more able to do the same when you're in a couple. As long as you hold onto feelings and amplify like you appear to do - be they sexual feelings for a girl or heartache at being rejected - you're in a poor position to (a) get into a relationship and (b) maintain it.

 

How about instead of trying to plan everything you do, think, feel, you engage with life with an open mind?

 

Isn't that a logical conclusion to draw? If a girl is single and looking and she doesn't want to date a guy, it is because the guy isn't up to her standards. So it is all about the guy.

 

What if, deep down, she isn't looking for someone? What if, perhaps, she's got her own internal issues going and intimacy at this time in life feels too uncomfortable? Perhaps what she wants right at this point in time is a friend?

 

That's not to say she may well not fancy you, she may well be on the market, and you are just the wrong guy, but it is also to say, it very often isn't all about you.

 

I would look for a way to get over the problem.

 

The point of that was, when you feel stomach ache you would look for a way to get over it; but when you described heartache, I got the impression you felt you deserved it.

[ptp]

See, the problem is, as I see, is you're indulging romantic feelings and magnifying them internally, before you've expressed them (subtly, flat out, verbally, non-verbally, whatever way you choose). There are several possible problems with that: one, by the time you do express them you've developed them so much that when you do it freaks her out just how intense you are about it; and two, you're hiding your feelings and that makes you up tight, miserable, non-spontaneous, and that turns her off; and three, you're so busy keeping a cork in the volcano inside that you fail to notice the moments when she's flirty, horny, open to suggestion; and four, yes, she may well just not be that into you and yet you're spending your time and energy focusing on her.

 

 

It's #4 most of the time. I haven't experienced #3 or 1, but 2 might have happened, but I am not usually miserable, I am pretty happy, upbeat kind of guy.

 

Men and women have sexual feelings. We are sexual beings. Plenty of couples start as friends and later on get it on. And even when you're part of a couple, you'll probably have sexual feelings for others from time to time. But they are just feelings. It's what we do that matters. If you learn how to let go of a feeling now while you're single you'll be more able to do the same when you're in a couple. As long as you hold onto feelings and amplify like you appear to do - be they sexual feelings for a girl or heartache at being rejected - you're in a poor position to (a) get into a relationship and (b) maintain it.

 

How about instead of trying to plan everything you do, think, feel, you engage with life with an open mind?

 

Okay so how should I do that? What are practical steps to putting that kind of plan in action?

 

What if, deep down, she isn't looking for someone? What if, perhaps, she's got her own internal issues going and intimacy at this time in life feels too uncomfortable? Perhaps what she wants right at this point in time is a friend?

 

That's not to say she may well not fancy you, she may well be on the market, and you are just the wrong guy, but it is also to say, it very often isn't all about you.

 

Well, when it happens to you a couple of times, it isn't the women its you. I think that works I was one women rejected me then the next one said yes. However, if you string a couple of those together and at some point you have to hold yourself accountable.

 

The point of that was, when you feel stomach ache you would look for a way to get over it; but when you described heartache, I got the impression you felt you deserved it.

 

No, I don't ever feel like I deserve the heart break. It is actually the opposite. I feel I deserve the best. I have always tried to do things the right way, treated women with respect. Frankly the relationships I have had have been few but really really good.

 

What I feel is that a lot of women don't give me a shot, a chance to be in a romantic relationship with them. For example the girl who put me in the friend zone. She let some guy who had a ONS with her, played her feelings and generally treated her like garbage to take her out on a date, but wouldn't let me take her out. She pined over some a**hole who basically just used her, but wouldn't even give me a chance. How does one deal with those feelings? It makes one feel lower than dirt.

Edited August 2, 2012 by ptp

[fortyninethousand322]

Well, when it happens to you a couple of times, it isn't the women its you. I think that works I was one women rejected me then the next one said yes. However, if you string a couple of those together and at some point you have to hold yourself accountable.

 

Exactly how I feel about this whole issue.

 

 

What I feel is that a lot of women don't give me a shot, a chance to be in a romantic relationship with them. For example the girl who put me in the friend zone. She let some guy who had a ONS with her, played her feelings and generally treated her like garbage to take her out on a date, but wouldn't let me take her out. She pined over some a**hole who basically just used her, but wouldn't even give me a chance. How does one deal with those feelings? It makes one feel lower than dirt.

 

Yup I've had similar stuff happen to me. If it makes you feel any better, the women in question will one day be tired of those "a-holes" and be looking to date you.

[ptp]

It doesn't make me feel better, I really cared about the woman. She was a good person and a friend. The guy literally and figuratively fu***d her over, but she kept going back to him.

[betterdeal]

Okay so how should I do that? What are practical steps to putting that kind of plan in action?

 

Get a book called "Don't let your emotions run your life" and have a read of it. It's basically DBT which may or may not be of interest. Rather than being slave to your emotions, work with them, consider them in the context of the rest of your life, and make your decisions based on that combination of your feelings and thoughts. Ultimately, there's no guaranteed path to a relationship (what would that look like anyway?) and that's a huge part of the thrill of relationships, but if you can master your feelings it's a skill that applies before, during and after a relationship, rain or shine.

 

Well, when it happens to you a couple of times, it isn't the women its you. I think that works I was one women rejected me then the next one said yes. However, if you string a couple of those together and at some point you have to hold yourself accountable.

 

Trust me, I spent a decade believing I was unlovable, then came to the realisation I was having it handed to me on a plate and I was the one doing the rejecting. I doubt many men have been quite as far that way as I have, but it takes two to make a relationship work - or fail.

 

No, I don't ever feel like I deserve the heart break. It is actually the opposite. I feel I deserve the best. I have always tried to do things the right way, treated women with respect. Frankly the relationships I have had have been few but really really good.

 

Sure, but when you do bum out, when a girl says "no" you incubate the feeling of rejection that engenders in you, and it becomes heartache. You can choose to see it differently and react differently.

 

What I feel is that a lot of women don't give me a shot, a chance to be in a romantic relationship with them. For example the girl who put me in the friend zone. She let some guy who had a ONS with her, played her feelings and generally treated her like garbage to take her out on a date, but wouldn't let me take her out. She pined over some a**hole who basically just used her, but wouldn't even give me a chance. How does one deal with those feelings? It makes one feel lower than dirt.

 

It sounds like she has pretty poor taste: so why judge yourself based on her opinion? And why, when she's involved with someone else, did you choose to invest so much emotion? I'm not having a go at you here - I've been through all that kind of thinking myself and it doesn't help. It's judging yourself by someone else's standards (hers) and why do that when you have your own standards to live up to?

[ptp]

Get a book called "Don't let your emotions run your life" and have a read of it. It's basically DBT which may or may not be of interest. Rather than being slave to your emotions, work with them, consider them in the context of the rest of your life, and make your decisions based on that combination of your feelings and thoughts. Ultimately, there's no guaranteed path to a relationship (what would that look like anyway?) and that's a huge part of the thrill of relationships, but if you can master your feelings it's a skill that applies before, during and after a relationship, rain or shine.

 

I will look into that book. I appreciate you taking the time to help me out. I have really been down in the dumps recently and sort of feeling hopeless. I don't know if it is because I am getting older or what, but I have never felt this bad in regards to relationships before. I am so frustrated and sad at the same time. It is helpful to get someone else's perspective.

 

Trust me, I spent a decade believing I was unlovable, then came to the realisation I was having it handed to me on a plate and I was the one doing the rejecting. I doubt many men have been quite as far that way as I have, but it takes two to make a relationship work - or fail.

 

I think our situations are slightly different, I am not doing any rejecting. You are talking about what happens once you get in the door, I am talking about not being let in door.

 

I have a hard time getting a relationship started. If I meet a cute girl, and I start talking to her, I rarely get those flirty fun signals. If I show slight interest in her, I want her to show me that she is interested in me too. For some reason that rarely happens. I don't know if it is part of my personality or how I approach things, but things never seem to progress.

 

I'll give you another example. Recently I met a new woman where I work and she is new to the area. I thought she was cute and had good personality. For a couple of weeks we got to know each other, but she never showed any signs of being interested in me. I could tell she liked my personality because she would find reasons to spend time with me, once I was staying late and when she heard that she wanted to stay late too. Then another time, she was telling me how she loves breakfast foods. So I am telling her about the best breakfast restaurants in Chicago and she says "You should take me". So I thinking this is good. We setup a Sunday morning to meet up at one of them.

 

I show up, and during the whole time we are eating, there was no flirting or signals that she was interested it was just straight business talk. At the end, I wanted to pay for both, but she insisted on paying half, signaling to me that we were there as nothing more than friends.

 

So what is a guy supposed to do? Now I try to ignore her as much as possible. That was another blow to me and I guess I am just going to have to learn with the negative feelings after that.

 

It sounds like she has pretty poor taste: so why judge yourself based on her opinion? And why, when she's involved with someone else, did you choose to invest so much emotion? I'm not having a go at you here - I've been through all that kind of thinking myself and it doesn't help. It's judging yourself by someone else's standards (hers) and why do that when you have your own standards to live up to?

 

No worries, I want criticism, cause I want someone else's point of view. Mine has become toxic to me.

 

Here was the situation with her. I met her thought she was very cute, learned she had BF and became friends with her. Later she broke up with her BF and that is when all that took place. She was single and looking and chose the other guy over me.

 

Also, judging myself according to other's standards? Well I do feel I meet my own, but if you like someone you are going to meet their standards to enter into a relationship right?

[betterdeal]

Tell me about a time when things went right. Your most recent girlfriend - how did you to get together, for instance? And what else was going on in your life at that time?

[ptp]

Usually, the girl shows obvious interest in me and if I think she is cute I ask her out.

That is how it usually has worked.

 

I am not sure what the problem is. After reading a lot on LS, a lot of women here claim that looks don't matter and personality matters more. Thus, I reasoned that I might have a pretty crappy personality (though, I like my personality) when it comes to attracting women.

 

So I created a thread on how to improve my personality. For some reason people either didn't read or didn't want to be critical, but they were was very little constructive criticism. I didn't get much actionable advice out side of being more aggressive. To me that translates to me being more sexually suggestive with women.

Edited August 5, 2012 by ptp

[betterdeal]

Hmm. Puzzling.

 

Flirting, either verbal or non-verbal cues and signs to a woman that she - yes, she! - is lucky enough to have caught your eye, is definitely something that can help steer things your way. I suppose that it is a form of aggression (assuming we don't see all forms of aggression as bad) just as the assertiveness is, but it doesn't have to be aggressive (as in hostile, the more common sense of the word). But then sometimes we just don't feel up to being the one who takes the lead all the time, and if it feels like hard work, it's not very fun, is it? Let the mood take you, but don't sweat it if the mood doesn't appear. Honour your feelings, I suppose.

 

I'm sorry I can't be of more help. I know that it seems to me that I get more lucky when I'm doing stuff I like doing, and there's women around. Whether that's down to me being more aware of signs they're looking, or them looking more, or a bit of both, I don't know, but everyone likes someone who likes what they're doing and besides, doing something you like doing is an end in itself, no?

 

Easier said than done, I know, but when you have a conundrum or puzzle or question you're trying to solve, and you don't seem to be getting far with doing so, it's often best to put it to one side and do something else. I believe this is one of those times for you. If you can accept you're having a dry spell, that there are far too many variables and ambiguities to pin down the cause definitively, and that it's not a chronic problem as you've cracked this particular egg in the past, you can put it in a box, put the box on a shelf and get on with other stuff.