Any serious UFO researchers/experts here?

[M30USA]

I'm interested in sharing/exchanging the results of any research and opinions you might have. Please only respond if you've spent at least several hours minimum on the subject and done more than just watch X-Files or other fiction trash. I'm intersted in qualified research and theories.

 

Thanks.

[wuggle]

In my youth I spent many hundreds of hours investigating UFO sightings, in the UK in particular. I read many books on the topic and found no credible evidence to support either the theory that they were from another life-bearing planet elsewhere in the universe or that they were Angelic hosts.

 

The best explanation for the small percentage that were not, with further research, found to be entirely explainable in terms of planes, reflections off clouds, swamp gas, experimental military aircraft, weather balloons, wishful thinking, hoaxes, delusional thinking etc was that they were rifts in the time continuem, temporary displacements of past\future objects momentarily and temporariy transplanted into this time frame.

[M30USA]

In my youth I spent many hundreds of hours investigating UFO sightings, in the UK in particular. I read many books on the topic and found no credible evidence to support either the theory that they were from another life-bearing planet elsewhere in the universe or that they were Angelic hosts.

 

The best explanation for the small percentage that were not, with further research, found to be entirely explainable in terms of planes, reflections off clouds, swamp gas, experimental military aircraft, weather balloons, wishful thinking, hoaxes, delusional thinking etc was that they were rifts in the time continuem, temporary displacements of past\future objects momentarily and temporariy transplanted into this time frame.

 

Cool. Have you read the new book by Leslie Kean called "UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go On The Record"?

 

It's generally agreed that 95% of cases truly are just manmade craft or other phenomenon. But the problem is that in ~5% of cases, we have strong evidence that all manmade or natural occurences can be ruled out.

 

People are often baffled that I believe in UFOs. They say, "You are a

Christian who believes the Bible, is it okay to believe that?" I tell people that the Bible supports the existence of UFOs completely.

 

The issue is this...

 

We think of ETs as biological and look for other "life" on planets, but we may never find it because the ETs, I believe, are actually angels. And that leaves us with the problem: angels are spiritual, yet they can occasionally manifest physically. This is totally consistent with the UFO phenomenon. All the experts admit that UFOs, while they contain elements that are physical, border on the intangible, spiritual level and oftentimes defy physics.

[Lobouspo]

M30USA

As a Christian, I'm curious as to what your thoughts are about UFO's actually being demons from another dimension? Some of these UFO abduction stories you hear from people are downright sinister.

[M30USA]

M30USA

As a Christian, I'm curious as to what your thoughts are about UFO's actually being demons from another dimension? Some of these UFO abduction stories you hear from people are downright sinister.

 

Oooooooooooooooooooh boy.....

 

Let's start by what is certain: UFOs are definitely from another dimension. But they are not limited to the other dimensions, since they can clearly appear and be touched physically (see the 1980 Bentwater UK case and the testimony of Sgt. James/Jim Penniston).

 

There are a few problems with saying that UFOs are all demonic:

 

1) Every case of a "chariot" from heaven or the clouds in the Bible is actually a holy chariot of the Lord. Not a single example of a demonic chariot. None.

 

2) The Bible suggests strongly (though not outright) that fallen angels are NOT able to appear physically in our world, but rather are limited to the spiritual realm. (Thus the term "demon" means the spirit of a fallen angel, not a physical fallen angel. Remember how in the Gospels the demons were driven out of the possessed man and desparately searched for another body to enter? Yet we repeatedly see holy angels appear in person and even eat food and touch humans. If there ever were fallen angels which did this, it was before the Flood. But since then, the Bible says God has chained these fallen angels up in chains of darkness, to be released at the end times for destruction.)

 

So what about the abductions? This phenomenon is way too complicated for me to understand. It, like UFOs, also appears to be a blend of spiritual/physical. On one hand it appears that people are taken physically, since there is evidence of sexual contact w/ fallen angels (like Genesis 6) and even physical marks on bodies afterwards; yet on the other hand it seems to be a spiritual encounter as well, since it often occurs during sleep or altered states.

 

I'm used to getting laughed at when I discuss this subject. I rarely discuss it in person w/ people because I fully acknowledge our scientific world isn't even 1% ready to embrace the possibility of this all being true.

Edited July 27, 2012 by M30USA

[TheFinalWord]

So what about the abductions? This phenomenon is way too complicated for me to understand. It, like UFOs, also appears to be a blend of spiritual/physical. On one hand it appears that people are taken physically, since there is evidence of sexual contact w/ fallen angels (like Genesis 6) and even physical marks on bodies afterwards; yet on the other hand it seems to be a spiritual encounter as well, since it often occurs during sleep or altered states.

 

What about sleep paralysis? Is it possible that alien abductions are sleep paralysis?

 

[M30USA]

What about sleep paralysis? Is it possible that alien abductions are sleep paralysis?

 

 

It's a possibility.

 

But we still need explain then how Elijah got abducted (physically) in 2 Kings. Obviously it wasn't a "sinister" abduction like we hear of today, but it was by definition an abduction.

 

Sleep paralysis is the explanation that many people hold because they want to sound reasonable and avoid crazy ideas. Many cultures (during many periods of history) have their own explanations for what sleep paralysis is. Many of them, as you'd guess, contain myth-like creatures such as demons, sprites, etc.

 

The progression of sleep paralysis goes as follows:

 

-Sleep

-Partial awakening with paralysis

-Vague awareness of the presence of people/spirits

 

(most experiences stop here, but if continued, go on into the following)

 

-Out of body experience

-Transport outside of bed/house

-Transport onto a ship (always described in similar detail by all people)

-Sexual experimenation and/or contact with beings, some of which appear entirely human and some of which appear like "grays"

-Victim is presented with a "hybrid" baby who they understand to be their own

-Victim reawakens in bed (sometimes not initially remembering what happened)

 

The problem is that the same thing happens to people sometimes even when they are not sleeping.

[M30USA]

This is Dr. John Mack, Head of Pysch at Harvard, explaining the abduction phenomenon. Harvard actually conducted investigations on him and nearly begged him to stop researching UFOs because it apparently was making Harvard lose credibility. But they couldn't find anything and his reputation as an academic was near flawless.

 

[TheFinalWord]

This is Dr. John Mack, Head of Pysch at Harvard, explaining the abduction phenomenon. Harvard actually conducted investigations on him and nearly begged him to stop researching UFOs because it apparently was making Harvard lose credibility. But they couldn't find anything and his reputation as an academic was near flawless.

 

 

Interesting.

 

For me, I don't see UFOs in the bible. I remember years ago reading UFO's end time delusion. For some reason I just don't agree with the theory.

 

I have never seen a UFO, but my dad and his brothers have. This was when I was a kid and we were camping. My dad grew up in the country and we were out there camping with his 6 brothers. They all said they saw a cigar shaped object floating through the sky. It was dead silent. I myself didn't see it, but they all were drawing pictures of it.

 

I do like to watch these paranormal shows from time to time. Though I often think these people sike themselves up into seeing things, especially these ghost shows. Who knows though, I just don't see any compelling evidence for UFOs. Good luck in your search!

 

Edit: By UFOs I mean alien space craft. Certainly there are UFOs by strict definition

Edited July 27, 2012 by TheFinalWord

[M30USA]

Interesting.

 

For me, I don't see UFOs in the bible. I remember years ago reading UFO's end time delusion. For some reason I just don't agree with the theory.

 

I have never seen a UFO, but my dad and his brothers have. This was when I was a kid and we were camping. My dad grew up in the country and we were out there camping with his 6 brothers. They all said they saw a cigar shaped object floating through the sky. It was dead silent. I myself didn't see it, but they all were drawing pictures of it.

 

I do like to watch these paranormal shows from time to time. Though I often think these people sike themselves up into seeing things, especially these ghost shows. Who knows though, I just don't see any compelling evidence for UFOs. Good luck in your search!

 

Yep, the shapes are almost always:

1) Saucer

2) Cigar/cylindrical

3) Trianguilar

 

Here are some suggestions about where you could find compelling info:

 

1) "UFOs, Angels, and Gods" by ThinkAgainProductions - a little bit low budget and kind of long, but contains great information and qualified speakers: UFOs Angels & Gods - Part 01 - YouTube

2) "UFO Coverup in 10 Minutes" by Richard Dolan, a cold war historian, who comes at UFOs from a military, political perspective: ET/UFO Disclosure | Richard Dolan | The UFO Cover-Up in 10 Minutes | January 27, 2011 - YouTube

3) "Return of the Nephilim" by Dr. Chuck Missler: Dr.Chuck Missler - Return of the Nephilim, Alien Existence, and Compatibility with Religion - Part 1 - YouTube

[YellowShark]

Ufo's "may be" fallen angels/demons? Now that's funny.

 

The universe is so vast that statistically there has to be planets which can support life. After all there are an estimated 70 sextillion planets in the universe. That's a lot of planets. An Earth-like one recently discovered by scientists is Kepler-22b. And ya.. 95% of "sightings" are natural phenomenon.. I agree.. but some of the other ones witnessed by military personnel, pilots, astronauts, policemen, firemen, government officials make me go hmmmmm.

 

That said, to now take a HUGE intellectual leap into a world where fairies, angels and goblins/demons are real. Ahhhh... no. That's just a bit too much for this cowboy. Think about it, what would be the point for God to create this vast universe for just one tiny civilization? Seems excessive doesn't it? We can never cross the universe, we'll never even make it across our own Milky Way galaxy. God sure wasted a lot of time and effort it seems.

 

So logically I lean towards aliens being far more likely to exist in our reality than fallen angels, goblins or demons driving flying saucers. I dunno.. call me crazy.

[M30USA]

The universe is so vast that statistically there has to be planets which can support life.

 

"Statistically", eh?

 

Stephen Hawking said that if one wants to argue there is life elsewhere, you cannot use that line of argument. It's the same as saying that since the universe is so big, there has to be a pair of red Air Jordan sneakers floating around in space somewhere. Stephen Hawking would tell you to ditch that line of reasoning and use another if you indeed want to argue there is life elsewhere.

 

Speaking of life elsewhere. How do you define "life"? Biological? What about spiritual? Hmm? Don't be so close-minded now.

Edited July 31, 2012 by M30USA

[FitChick]

You should listen to Coast to Coast AM radio. They often have UFO type topics.

[somedude81]

"Statistically", eh?

 

Stephen Hawking said that if one wants to argue there is life elsewhere, you cannot use that line of argument. It's the same as saying that since the universe is so big, there has to be a pair of red Air Jordan sneakers floating around in space somewhere. Stephen Hawking would tell you to ditch that line of reasoning and use another if you indeed want to argue there is life elsewhere.

 

Speaking of life elsewhere. How do you define "life"? Biological? What about spiritual? Hmm? Don't be so close-minded now.

So you're sticking with the belief that with 70 sextillion planets in the universe, Earth is the only one can support life?

 

If so, what is your reason for such belief?

[M30USA]

So you're sticking with the belief that with 70 sextillion planets in the universe, Earth is the only one can support life?

 

If so, what is your reason for such belief?

 

Never said anything of the sort. I haven't made my mind up on this subject yet. All I was saying (and Stephen Hawking agrees) is that if you are going to say there is life elsewhere, it cannot be based on the fact that the universe is so large. Hawking believes there is life out there but he says you must come at it from a different position than "because the world is so big".

[KathyM]

Angels and demons are spiritual beings. They don't need a spacecraft to travel around.

[somedude81]

Never said anything of the sort. I haven't made my mind up on this subject yet. All I was saying (and Stephen Hawking agrees) is that if you are going to say there is life elsewhere, it cannot be based on the fact that the universe is so large. Hawking believes there is life out there but he says you must come at it from a different position than "because the world is so big".

OK, so you are undecided yet. That is fine.

 

My belief is that there are so many other planets out there, I would not be surprised if a few of them supported life, or that some planets have life that is advanced enough to travel the universe.

 

The biggest hold up right now is that humans don't have the technology to leave the solar system. I strongly believe that once humans develop faster than light travel and start visiting other galaxies, then we might run into other life in the universe.

 

With our current technology and how big space is, the closest comparison I can think of would be is living on an island and taking a kayak into the ocean and using a telescope to look around. Of course, one isn't going to get very far if all they have is a kayak.

 

For now, I'm just happy that we haven't been attacked by an aliens

[YellowShark]

"Statistically", eh?

 

Stephen Hawking said that if one wants to argue there is life elsewhere, you cannot use that line of argument. It's the same as saying that since the universe is so big, there has to be a pair of red Air Jordan sneakers floating around in space somewhere. Stephen Hawking would tell you to ditch that line of reasoning and use another if you indeed want to argue there is life elsewhere.

 

Speaking of life elsewhere. How do you define "life"? Biological? What about spiritual? Hmm? Don't be so close-minded now.

 

Ahhh... the old appeal to authority fallacy. Nice try but has no effect on me. It is far easier for me to believe Steven Hawking may be mistaken than to believe in fairies, angels, goblins, and demons.

 

Angels and demons are spiritual beings. They don't need a spacecraft to travel around.

 

If you say so.

[M30USA]

Angels and demons are spiritual beings. They don't need a spacecraft to travel around.

 

A few pieces if info:

 

1) We don't know exactly what the function of these "chariots" (UFOs) in the Bible are. It's an assumption to think on our own terms that they are for transport. Ezekiel 1 suggests they could potentially be like a "throne".

 

2) Demon is a specific term that gets misused. It refers to a fallen angel who has no physical body and is limited to the spiritual realm. (Most likely as a punishment by God for the events related to Genesis 6.)

 

3) How do you know angels, like us, don't use technology? That's an assumption you are making. Read Ezekiel 1 where the angels are in a "wheel within a wheel". Sounds technological to me.

[KathyM]

A few pieces if info:

 

1) We don't know exactly what the function of these "chariots" (UFOs) in the Bible are. It's an assumption to think on our own terms that they are for transport. Ezekiel 1 suggests they could potentially be like a "throne".

You are talking about Ezekiel's vision when he saw God. When the heavens were opened, and his vision was of God. The book of Ezekiel talks about Ezekiel seeing four creatures with wheels beside them, and above them was the glory of God. It's possible the four creatures in his vision were angels, but it doesn't specify the purpose of the four wheels. It was a vision that God chose to use when appearing to Ezekiel, just as He has chosen other forms to appear to man, such as appearing as fire to Moses. I think you're getting too hung up on UFO's and incidentals, which detract from God's message.

 

2) Demon is a specific term that gets misused. It refers to a fallen angel who has no physical body and is limited to the spiritual realm. (Most likely as a punishment by God for the events related to Genesis 6.)

I agree that a demon is a fallen angel that rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven. Both angels and demons are spiritual beings.

 

3) How do you know angels, like us, don't use technology? That's an assumption you are making. Read Ezekiel 1 where the angels are in a "wheel within a wheel". Sounds technological to me.

Spiritual beings don't need transportation devices to move around. Ezekiel 1 describes a vision Ezekiel had of God. The four creatures described in that book of the Bible could have been angels, or could have been part of the form God took to appear to Ezekiel. God can take any form He choses. The four wheels mentioned in Ezekiel as part of the vision is not significant to the vision itself, or its meaning. You're focusing on incidentals that detract from God's message.

[M30USA]

I understand this isn't a central issue of the Gospel, however...

 

The theme of fallen angels, biblical chariots, and the Nephilim is clearly delineated not only in Genesis but also through Numbers. It's even referenced by Paul in 2 Peter.

 

The reason I have studied this issue is because it's not only extremely important to understanding much of the OT, but even biblical prophecy. Therefore I believe it's important. Especially because it was the standard interpretation up to 500 AD--yet now is only taught in less than 10% of seminaries.

[M30USA]

Alright, this is pretty jacked-up but I have something I need to post...

 

My brother, also a UFO researcher, was driving home from work and he saw a UFO. He wasn't going to tell anyone--especially because people are aware he's interested in UFOs and they'd say he's seeing what he wants to see. But just for the hell of it he did a Google search and, lo and behold, someone actually filmed what he saw from a few miles away. They posted it on YouTube (link below). I know people don't believe these videos online, but I can tell you that my brother witnessed it. I spoke with him at length. Check it out.

 

UFO Sighting on Long Island (Video) | Gather