Now I am no psycho but what do you think

[BritRN]

I was planning on going out for dinner with this guy from work, that I had asked out on a date. We had chatted for about 2 hours on the phone and he suggested that we go out for dinner and he said that he would call me, as he was busy at work for a week. Well that was the 5/6th July and no phone call yet. Now I do not pretend to understand men, but I like to think that when a 38 single guy says that he is going to call then he will, unless of course he never planned on doing so. Now this guy is a MD and I a RN. Now I am not by any means dwelling and have already thrown away his number. But for future reference, is it wise to ask a guy out on a date, and how much do you persue them. Why do they say that they will call and never do. Interesting topic

I brought the men/mars dating book and it is good, for anyone else planning on buying it.

[clia]

But for future reference, is it wise to ask a guy out on a date, and how much do you persue them.

 

I never ask guys out and don't pursue them at all. I don't even call guys unless I need to change/cancel plans. But you have to do what works best for you, your personality type, and the kind of guy/relationship you want.

 

Why do they say that they will call and never do.

 

Ha! Any number of a million reasons. It's possible that this guy did not like you stepping up to the role of pursuer. My opinion is that if a guy is interested, he will ask me out -- if he hasn't asked, he's not interested.

[stewwy]

me personally, I love being pursued by a woman. I also like pursuing. I ALWAYS follow thru with what I say and dont understand other guys that dont. It makes me embarrassed for my gender at times. I think people get too wrapped up in this whole game of who calls who who pursues who. If you want something you have to go for it. It will either work or it wont. I have gone after a woman I wanted like a pitbull and eventually won and had a meaningful relationship as a result. I have also been on the otherside of that as well. the point is there are no set rules to this game.

[Max Overclock]

It COULD be, that the poor doc is worked out of his mind.

 

It could be that he lost your number in any one of a million pieces of paper a doctor might be carrying in the run of a day.

 

It could be anything.

 

I am troubled by the implication that we are incapable of calling.

 

More troubled by the idea that one should read another book (opinion) on how ADULTS should treat each other.

 

Sorry ... must have touched a nerve there.

[DerangedAngel]

O! I'm so disappointed. Seeing as you claimed you were no psycho, I was expecting something truly... psychotic.

 

I have found that guys reactive positively to me pursuing them, and I have no problem with it. I do love to be pursued as well, hence most of my relationships have been a little of both. That works for me.

 

Maybe being chased (I use it loosely) wasn't his thing. Chalk it up to that, and move on. If you feel like asking a guy out, go ahead. Don't let this turn you off to the role of pursuer.

 

Cheers.

 

-Deranged

[Curt]

I bet they enjoyed it quite a bit. What guy would not be "gaga" about some stunning woman having enough interest in him as a man to approach him and ask for a date.

 

What a breath of fresh air.

 

Can't throw out the baby with the bathwater...some guys might react negatively, but let them. Don't let it put you off doing it again.

 

If you like him, and would like to get to know him better, ask him out!

 

PS: Like the quote Deranged.

 

Curt

[HoldOn]

I tend to think that if a guy likes you enough, he'll ask you out. And I don't really want to go out with a guy if he doesn't like me enough to ask me out.

 

Every woman has different wants and needs though!

[DerangedAngel]

I tend to think that if a guy likes you enough, he'll ask you out. And I don't really want to go out with a guy if he doesn't like me enough to ask me out.

 

I look at it very differently. Why should a guy be denied the pleasure of having a woman like him enough to ask him out? I don't think it should be left to one gender to face the possible (sucky) rejection, or (glorious) acceptance. But again, whatever makes someone comfortable.

 

PS: Like the quote Deranged.

 

Thank you. It's from "The Wrong Man Was Convicted" by Barenaked Ladies.

 

-Deranged

[Curt]

HOW can we say that A necessarily equals B?

 

No call does not mean necessarily that he has no interest. It just does not.

 

I might have a million different reasons why I might not take it upon myself to ask a girl out...even if, more than anything in the world, I might want to know her better as a person.

 

Eg: Older guy, younger girl. Does I feel I can ask a 23 year old woman, of great intelligence and wonderful personality, when I am a fair bit older than she is?

 

Answer: That's the kind of thing that gets a guy called a "player" or "dirty ole man." I would like to think I am neither...but society has limitations on what it will accept.

 

Eg2: Do I feel I can date the close friend of an ex., even though she and I might get along more smashingly than myself and the ex.

 

Answer: It's always a barrier to dating. But what if she approached me too. What a great opportunity for us to make a connection.

 

These are two of about a trillion other situations there probably are.

 

NOW,

 

If a woman also gives me the chance through her willingness to ask me if I'd like to go out with her ... will I take that chance?

 

If I think we could be a good match together, of course I will. Her interest in me, coupled with my desire to also be around her, levels the field significantly.

 

It's not a confidence thing. It's a consciousness of what societal/community standards can dictate in certain circumstances.

 

Let'd break the box open on that idea once and for all.

 

Curt

[HoldOn]

Hey guys,

 

I was just saying that for ME, the guy would have to ask me out. That's all. If you girls want to ask guys out, go for it.

 

Regarding your examples, Curt, I don't think that the girl asking you out would make these situations any more acceptable. The girl in your example was 23, but I don't know how old you are... I am assuming you are older.

 

No call does not mean necessarily that he has no interest. It just does not.

 

I agree that No call does not equal No interest. But it DOES mean not-enough interest. If a guy likes you ENOUGH, he'll call. That's all I am asking for! I personally would not be attracted to a guy unless he likes me enough to call.

 

I look at it very differently. Why should a guy be denied the pleasure of having a woman like him enough to ask him out?

 

If he liked me, he could just ask me out, then he wouldn't need to be denied any pleasure!

[moimeme]

I agree that No call does not equal no interest. But it does mean not enough interest. If a guy likes you ENOUGH, he'll call.

 

No, if he's interested and not shy or has not come up with his own reasons why you won't appreciate his call, he'll call. But hey, whatever floats your boat. I'll take the Curt types any day over the 'me macho man must call' ones

[DerangedAngel]

If he liked me, he could just ask me out, then he wouldn't need to be denied any pleasure!

 

What pleasure would you be denied if you called him? The pleasure of being chased. Same thing for the guy in this case.

 

I'll take the Curt types any day over the 'me macho man must call' ones

 

Same here.

 

-DA

[BritRN]

Well I decided to send him a short email, I do not have his number,anymore but did remember his email. So we will see. I also have three prospects with this dating agency thing I have signed up for, but had to first find out what was happening with this guy..............

[clia]

I totally agree with you, HoldOn!

 

Isn't it great that we can all date in the manner that works for us?

 

Well I decided to send him a short email,

 

I'm shuddering right now. He said he'd call and he didn't. What more do you need to know?

 

I also have three prospects with this dating agency thing I have signed up for, but had to first find out what was happening with this guy..............

 

Why?

[BritRN]

You guys are really wise, thanks

[Curt]

All the ideas here are good.

 

I suppose it all boils down to what you want in the "starting phase" of a relationship.

 

I honestly think that what I suggested earlier was true. Nothing in life is all "neat and tidy" all the time. Fact is, sometimes life intercedes and points in a direction which is not always productive in terms of getting a relationship on the go. Lost numbers, interfering meetings, yadda yadda, can all have an impact.

 

Yes, all the other factors are an issue to a point. I'm sorry, though Holdon. If I'm given a chance to have a happy, fulfilled life by meeting a 23-year old woman and being happy with her, then I shall respectfully take that opportunity. Plus, if I fall for a woman older, I shall consider that opportunity too. Life is relative to a certain degree. If I were to have a choice between living in lonliness, or with a woman of that age that I truly love and admire, then you know my choice.

 

I know that both HoldOn and clia prefer to feel that it's rather a guy's "job" to do a great deal of the groundwork in the start of a relationship. That's all well and good ... like has been said ... whateva' floats ya boat!

 

See, I just think it's best of all when a man and woman, who truly have a chance of loving each other, make sure to give the pairing an honest chance. Masculine and feminine gender roles, as dictated by a "rule book," unspoken "play regulations," or other outside factors, should not be the primary "engines" by which the early stages of a relationship get in motion.

 

PS: Thanks Deranged and moi for the really sweet comments. They're genuinely appreciated.

 

Curt

[moimeme]

Masculine and feminine gender roles, as dictated by a "rule book," unspoken "play regulations," or other outside factors, should not be the primary "engines" by which the early stages of a relationship get in motion.

 

AB SO LUTELY!!!!!

 

The guy could have lost her number and be kicking himself all over the place for having done so. How crazy to not at least check. If he is brushing her off, at least she'll know rather than wondering 'what if'.

 

But if someone likes to live by 'rules' and 'shoulds' then that person's best mate is another person who believes in that stuff. Better them than me!

[clia]

See, I just think it's best of all when a man and woman, who truly have a chance of loving each other, make sure to give the pairing an honest chance.

 

Absolutely agree.

 

Masculine and feminine gender roles, as dictated by a "rule book," unspoken "play regulations," or other outside factors, should not be the primary "engines" by which the early stages of a relationship get in motion.

 

Merely taking more traditional dating roles does not in any way, shape, or form not give the pairing an honest chance, nor does it mean you are playing by a "playbook." Heck, we are all playing by some innate playbook based on our past experiences. Believe it or not, there are a lot of men out there who like traditional dating -- man pursues, man calls, asks girl out, plans date, etc. But it all depends on the type of man/woman you want. As most of you know by now, I like alpha males. I don't like going out with feminine energy men -- they aren't "tough" enough for me. But that is my preference -- obviously not everyone agrees with me, nor should they. The crux of the whole thing is -- what type of relationship do you want to be in?

[Curt]

Thanks Clia. I dunno if I want to think I've too much feminine energy, though.

 

Hey, if you're into more alpha-males, then that's cool too!

 

Hmm ... I do find that interesting to some degree, though.

 

I don't want to suggest that I have a clear picture of your personality based upon a message board, that would be clearly impossible. From all that you've posted, however, I would peg you as a woman who is quite directed at what she wants, is articulate, intelligent, and quite strong. All good qualities mind you!

 

Now, if you (or for that matter any one of a number of other women on earth) prefer alpha males, does that not to some degree settle out your position in your love relationships to where you are the "go along" partner?

 

Don't take it the wrong way Clia ... I'm just trying to sift through it all in my mind.

 

How do you see things?

 

Curt

[moimeme]

I'm interested to hear that answer, too, Clia. One of the reasons I don't want an 'alpha male' is that that sort very rarely appreciates an independent woman. The Curts aren't 'feminine', they're equal and they want equal partners. I don't want to be some guy's possession; I want to be his partner.

[clia]

From all that you've posted, however, I would peg you as a woman who is quite directed at what she wants, is articulate, intelligent, and quite strong.

 

I'd say this is pretty accurate.

 

Now, if you (or for that matter any one of a number of other women on earth) prefer alpha males, does that not to some degree settle out your position in your love relationships to where you are the "go along" partner?

 

Before I begin, let me just disclaim this by saying this is my view of dating, based on my experiences. I'm not saying it's right, but it works for me!

 

To a certain extent, I suppose it's true that my position is more the "go along" position. However, I'm no shrinking violet -- I don't do anything I don't want to do, and I don't let anyone order me around. I'm tough -- I call people on their BS, and I expect to be called on mine. I think in nearly all relationships one partner is more dominant than the other, though, even if just a tiny bit. I don't want to be "dominant" in the relationship.

 

I equate feminine energy males as those with the more passive or receptive role in the relationship. When in a relationship, it is more natural for me to take this role, even though this is not how I am in my professional life. I like it when the man takes control, plans a wonderful date, calls me, asks me out, sends me flowers, etc. Traits I equate with alpha males are boldness, confidence, decision making, respect, strength, a man who has his act together, knows what he brings to the table, who isn't looking to me to fill a void in his life or to take care of him. Granted, some more feminine energy men have some of these traits as well -- you can't pigeon hole everyone into one of these categories, and due to life circumstances and situations, a person may be either or at certain points in time. But I prefer a man who, in general, falls closer to the alpha male side of things.

 

Why? Because I found that I am happiest in a relationship when I feel cherished. As cheesy and corny as this sounds, for my peace of mind, I like a man who confidently and boldly pursues me, and makes me feel like I am A#1. This behavior makes me feel cherished. It makes me feel great when my boyfriend says "I couldn't wait to talk to you tonight!" or "It's so wonderful to see you!" I don't like a man who sits back passively and expects me to pursue him, or lacks confidence in our relationship, or constantly needs reassurance from me that I am interested in him, or is afraid to send me flowers, or wants me to pay on the second date -- that doesn't make me feel cherished. In fact, after time goes by, it makes me feel like crap! It makes me stress and wonder -- how does this guy feel about me? Why doesn't he ever do anything? Why doesn't he ever plant a big kiss on me in the middle of the restaurant, or plan a romantic evening, or ... anything?

 

Okay, so I'll admit that the above paragraph shows both extremes. There are guys who are more "feminine energy" who do step up to the plate at times, and guys who are more "alpha male" who step down from the plate at times. But overall -- you can't change people. You can't change who they are, how they are, and how they interact in a relationship. And some of this is much more important to me early on in a relationship -- things do change as a relationship gets more serious and longer term.

 

But don't take this to mean that my "go along" role means I do nothing when I'm in a relationship -- I do. I've been accused of being a great girlfriend. I am of the type who will bring over a care package of chicken noodle soup and DVDs if my man is sick (not because he expects me to, but because I want to), picking up silly gifts for no reason, surprising him with tickets to his favorite sporting event, etc... If he makes me feel cherished, I will do anything for him!

 

One of the reasons I don't want an 'alpha male' is that that sort very rarely appreciates an independent woman.

 

I don't agree with this at all. I've found that alpha males are much less threatened by my independence/career than are "feminine energy" guys, mainly because they are more (IMO) confident and independent themselves, so they want someone who is more like that.

 

I don't want to be some guy's possession; I want to be his partner.

 

I don't want to be some guy's possession either -- I'm all about the partnership. However, I want him to make me feel like I am the girl of his dreams. That's what makes me feel wonderful, happy, and satisfied when I'm in a relationship.

[HoldOn]

Ah jeez, people. It doesn't take an "alpha male" to pick up the phone and call me! I'm not that scary. I am not asking a guy to slay a demon or ask my father's permission for a date or anything. Just pick up the phone and dial!

 

Curt said: whateva' floats ya boat!

 

You got it! I am just saying that I would like to be in a relationship where I can always know that the guy was interested enough to call! It's not too much to ask.

 

Everyone has their own playbook, like clia said! I'm just trying to say what my opinion is... for me.

 

Now, if you (or for that matter any one of a number of other women on earth) prefer alpha males, does that not to some degree settle out your position in your love relationships to where you are the "go along" partner?

 

No. My bf called me first (shocking, I know). And he's always going out of his way to please me and I would do the same for him. It's a partnership. But I am not willing to give my love to someone unless I am sure that he loves me first.

 

Also, does that mean if the girl calls the guy that the guy is always going to be the "go along" partner??

 

If I'm given a chance to have a happy, fulfilled life by meeting a 23-year old woman and being happy with her, then I shall respectfully take that opportunity.

I'm confused. If you want to date the 23 year old, why can't you just ask her out? You could only date her if she asked you?

 

The guy could have lost her number and be kicking himself all over the place for having done so.

Well, I would say that the chances of that are pretty slim. Also, how did he get her number in the first place? Couldn't he get it again. He also probably knows where she works or some of her friends or something. Anyway, I think the e-mail idea was ok and if he doesn't respond after that, then that's that...

[faux]

More women need to ask men out, or show greater interest. I will show a mild interest if I am captivated to some extent, but if the woman does not take any type of action I don't consider her very worthy of my time. I do not want to put effort into someone who assumes that I, as the male, must initiate every action. I find this a negative personality trait.

 

There should be no "rules" in dating. Most of those "rules" drive men away, as we do not all live by these same supposed "universal dating rules". It is not incorrect for a female to phone a male, or for a female to ask a male out on a date. I appreciate it when I see someone showing initiative.

 

You think that if a man hasn't called you or asked you out yet, he isn't interested? Assume you are in a situation where the man you are speaking to feels the same way. You could be a match made in heaven, but that stubborn behavior will prevent anything from ever happening.

 

Some women who still have these old-fashioned ideas about relationships could do well to change; they would notice that if they show an interest, they would have better luck in such areas of life.

 

I have a few stories of girls that I would bump into weeks, months later after our initial meeting that would complain. "Why did you never call? I liked you!" To which I have responded, "You know, I didn't think you were interested, and I thought that my phoning you would be bothersome. Next time, perhaps you would do well to show more of an interest. You did have my number."

 

Then they would want to go out again, to which I could only say, "Sorry. You had your chance." Perhaps a bit cruel, but entertaining and, I think, necessary.

[HoldOn]

faux,

 

Hey, I'm curious about your answer, even though I disagree. But I just had a few questions...

You've asked girls out in the past right? Why did you ask some girls out but not these others? You said there were some girls that you didn't ask out because you were unsure about their feelings for you. What did the other girls do to show enough interest that you asked them out? Or was it that you liked them a little more and you were willing to put yourself on the line?

 

Just wondering...

 

BTW, It's not a game. It's just a way to protect myself from hurt.

 

they would notice that if they show an interest, they would have better luck in such areas of life.

 

I am wonderfully happy in my dating life, thank you! I don't spend my days waiting for guys to call or wondering why they are not calling! If they call, we'll go out. I don't obsess over it!

 

Anyway, I have a wonderful boyfriend who asked me out 7 months ago and we're still going strong. (planning for the future too...)

 

It is not incorrect for a female to phone a male, or for a female to ask a male out on a date.

hey, never said it was incorrect. But it wouldn't work for me!

[moimeme]

I'm hearing symbolic acts here.

 

when I feel cherished

 

unless I am sure that he loves me first

 

Based on our observations, we assign symbolism to certain acts; hence the "If you really loved me, you would (insert symbolic act here)" belief. These can be big pitfalls because they often don't take human failings into account. So, for instance, a person here was getting furious with her husband because her symbol was taking out the trash and the guy consistently forgot to do it. The assumption behind the symbol is that people will always behave a certain way because of certain feelings, which is isn't the case. Man in question is a chronic forgetter; his love for his wife will not improve his impaired memory function no matter how much he'd wish it to.

If she continues to equate his forgetting with lack of love, she tells herself he doesn't love her, even though he loves her dearly and the forgetting is another brain function entirely independent of it.

 

So I'm hearing here the belief that 'if man X really loves me, that will be sufficient to motivate him to pursue me and therefore his failure to pursue me means he doesn't care'.

 

If your tolerance for frailties and failings is low, then it's probably wise to live in those assumptions, but if you wouldn't mind having a wonderful, loving man who is, for all his wonderfulness, absent-minded, then you would have to shed the idea that his forgetting the trash means he doesn't care.

 

Similarly, a man who may be somewhat insecure can be a complete gem and well worth having in your life so thinking that his failure to call means he doesn't care can cause you to let him slip away before you find out what a gem he truly is.

 

Confidence is interesting, I suppose, but it seems to me that men who aren't alpha are not nearly as afraid of emotional intimacy as the alpha gang are. But it may only be my impression.