No Contact (NC). Guide for the long walk. Consolidated discussion.

[darhma]

To live independently is to live in isolation and fear. I have too many friends that have been hurt and who are almost incapable of putting down their fences and their masks.

 

Yes we learn from our mistakes and we try and make better decisions. However vulnerability is not a sign of weakness but a sign of courage and lovability. I fully intend on needing someone again. To allow what has happened to me to kill my ability to trully love someone is like saying I am dead already. I can not imagine giving anything or anyone the power to destroy that part of me. It is saying that the person who has hurt you will continue to have power over you.

 

No I will never be the same. However I hope that in the end of my long walk I am better...more appreciative, more empathetic and just more.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by darhma

To live independently is to live in isolation and fear. I have too many friends that have been hurt and who are almost incapable of putting down their fences and their masks.

 

Yes we learn from our mistakes and we try and make better decisions. However vulnerability is not a sign of weakness but a sign of courage and lovability. I fully intend on needing someone again. To allow what has happened to me to kill my ability to trully love someone is like saying I am dead already. I can not imagine giving anything or anyone the power to destroy that part of me. It is saying that the person who has hurt you will continue to have power over you.

 

No I will never be the same. However I hope that in the end of my long walk I am better...more appreciative, more empathetic and just more.

 

Wow. I like your attitude.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Originally posted by whitewhale

I agree! A book would be great! I'd buy it via Amazon instantly. It's very helpful what you wrote and so inspiring too.

 

A book which really offers some similar advice, and is a good worthwhile healing read, is "Don't Call that Man". I believe the author's name is Rhonda Fielding.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Originally posted by NewMe

Well, I don't mean to be contentious, but I feel like you're just putting forward more platitudes. We live in a culture that idealizes independence, but the truth is that we are all interdependent.

 

You couldn't be more right NewMe. I can't tell you how many personal ads start out with the words "I'm independent". I don't believe that you can have true intimacy with another person until you become interdependent with them. Now, that doesn't mean basing your happiness on the other person, or becoming co-dependent. But it does mean surrendering some of your independence, because that's what love does. And it means being able to "depend" on the other person to love and care for you forever, in good times and bad, as you would do for them. I think our independent culture has created too many commitment-phobics.

[DeaconFrost]

Amen to that!!!! NewMe, darhma, and jen_jen have all hit on a HUGE topic in today's society. I think this strong vow of independence is horse s**t. What fool thinks a relationship can truly last in this state? Part of the absolute beauty in a relationship is to be completely vunerable and to KNOW that your partner is not only accepting of your vulnerability, but feels special to have the gift and would do anything in return for you. Anyone who says they don't want to be needed and depended on is either a robot or completely uncapable of taking care of themselves in the first place. For all those who live in fear of being hurt or strive to be independent I say that as long as you stay in this state you will never remain in a truly robust and healthy relationship, you will always be wallowing in previous hurt, and you will never truly experience true intimacy unless you learn to let you gaurd down and allow yourself to be loved. I just got out of this situation (my ex had this mentality)...its ugly.

 

Originally posted by darhma

To live independently is to live in isolation and fear...However vulnerability is not a sign of weakness but a sign of courage and lovability. To allow what has happened to me to kill my ability to trully love someone is like saying I am dead already...I hope that in the end of my long walk I am better...more appreciative, more empathetic and just more.

 

YEEESSSSS!!!!!! This is what I live by! It's awesome to see that someone has the same mentality.

 

No Foolin, great post man, but as others pointed out its important to not shut yourself off from the world because of other f**ked people. NC is a tool, not a lifestyle...

[DeaconFrost]

Oh...a quick thought...the ex's birthday is in two weeks. Is it bad to just send a text or e-mail to say happy b-day? I don't want to talk to her at all and we haven't had any contact in well over a month. I'm just a nice guy who believes that everyone should be wished a happy birthday (even the ice queen). I feel like its something I should do.

 

Am I going to get blasted for asking this question???

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Originally posted by DeaconFrost

Oh...a quick thought...the ex's birthday is in two weeks. Is it bad to just send a text or e-mail to say happy b-day? I don't want to talk to her at all and we haven't had any contact in well over a month. I'm just a nice guy who believes that everyone should be wished a happy birthday (even the ice queen). I feel like its something I should do.

 

Am I going to get blasted for asking this question???

 

If you don't want to talk to her at all, then what is your real motive for contacting her? I mean, I'm sure she'll get birthday cards and stuff from other people. Could it be that you really do want to talk to her?

[DeaconFrost]

No. I know for sure that talking to her would just trump up mad drama that doesn't need to rear its ugly head inside of me. My motive is to honestly wish her a happy birthday and be friendly. Maybe deep down inside there is a part that wants to remind her that inspite of everything I still can give a s**t. I sort have a hard time bringing myself to not be nice in some manner. I guess that's just the person I am.

 

Its strange. I KNOW talking to her is the last thing I'm interested in, but for some reason I feel like I should at least wish her a happy birthday. Blah, the old head vs. heart story...

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Do you have a mutual friend that you can ask to wish her a happy b-day on your behalf? Because I think a card, email or text might appear as though you are looking for a response (even if you tell her you're not).

[DeaconFrost]

I guess I do. Although it would be more work to get in touch with the friend than it would be to just drop her the message. You see, the mutual friend is one of her really good friends and I get the feeling her frined is ostricizing me for some unknown reason. On top of that, I know she would tell me to suck it up and just do it myself. All in all, it seems like way more work than would be neceassary...

[No Foolin]

Lets see.......... To begin, I am pleased with the most recent posts regarding this thread. It shows intelligence and vision, outstanding!

 

Yes, independence is pimped in this nation. But independence for many is not without a shade of irony. Every TV program, songs etc, give you the message that your act is not together if you're not in some sort of arrangement. So those who believe that being free from the dysfunctional muck of screwed up relationships, and 60% divorce rates, are looked upon as being bitter or frightened or whats the term "robots"? No, they're free, free to deal with the only constant, themselves. However, if you think that I pimping some sort of hermit living in Colorado philosophy, eating granola, weaving my own shirts out of dried deer intestines, your wrong. Simply its a battle of rhetoric, the difference between WANTS and NEEDS. You don't need a relationship. You're not going to die if you don't have one.

 

There may be a small breakdown in communication regarding no contact and current relations with people in our lives. There is 100% no contact with past relationship in my world. See the thing is, the relationship is over, thus there is no need to stay in contact with someone who doesn't want to be with me, or me with them. Whats the point? Thats like staying in a movie theater after the movie is over, trying to figure out why it ended.

 

I desire the company of women (desire = a want) from time to time, as a result I don't use the no contact philosophy when I'm engaged in that realm. Could you see yourself at a club trying to pick up by ignoring all the perspectives walking around, lol.

 

No contact is no more a philosophy than brushing your teeth is a philosophy. No contact exists so you can get your head straight. I would ask that you actually take the time and try it (for longer than one or two months please) before you write it off as some gimic. After all I bet your having a beer commercial of a time getting all sorts of info about your ex, that you really didn't want in the first place.

 

I've talked to endless amounts of people and read virtually every thread on the coping/break up forums for the last 5 months and truth is, many are looking for some way to get back to where they were before (as if that is going to save them). Thats like some astronaught getting out of the rocket and limping it back to mission control, lol.

 

I'm not fronting ladies and gents, you wouldn't be here, reading this, if it wasn't for your past relationships. You are looking for solace, answers to questions that will never be answered. You are poisoning yourself with long-shot odds. Turning back the very help that you were looking for.

 

To close, they teach women in rape prevention classes the difference between a victim and a warrior. A victim is someone who believes that safety and happiness comes from the outside, thus it takes very little to take it away. A warrior is someone who knows that happiness, fortitude, and endurance comes from the inside, nobody absolutely nobody can take that from you, unless you let them .

 

I'm not a victim, guess that make me a robot (domo arigoto Mr. Roboto)

 

No Foolin

[DeaconFrost]

I think you aren't taking my robot analogy the way I intended it and I think you may have twisted its meaning a bit. You see what I was saying is that EVERYONE has the desire to be wanted and needed. In its purest form we ALL want to be in relationships. They typically bring out the best in us. But you add in all the drama and that's where people get a bit hesitant. I used the robot analogy to say that those who ignore the inante desire to be coupled and wanted have probably lost touch with emotion as in that of a robot. Honestly, I was wavering on this word choice to begin with so I'd be happy to replace it with a more fruitful explanation at what I wanted to get at. Consider the robot term set aside.

 

Maybe it works better if I put it this way. These people (I'll use most of the women who I know that herald this mantra) who claim to be self-righteously independent often have no clue about themselves and no clue what is required to make a healthy relationship work. They use the banner of independence as a defense mechanism to protect themselves from being hurt again. Sure, you certainly will keep yourself from the pain of a breakup, but as long as that wall is posted up you also will never be in an enriching and powerful relationship.

 

I just find it interesting that many of these women can't figure out why their relationships never work out. Duh! Of course its not going to work out. Its most often because they want the comfort and powerfulness of a relationship, but aren't willing to allow true intimacy and vulnerability to exist. So, when the relationship ends abruptly they wonder why they just can't find someone who'll accept their vow of oneness. Well who would? You can't be in a romantic relationship without being dependant. Try it and you'll never get past the point where friends exist.

 

I agree with alot of what you have said No Foolin. You don't need a relationship. The difference is one of choice. If you want to be in a relationship than you can't have the type of independence that many claim to possess if you want it to succeed long term or want it to progress past the point of "good friends." I also agree that there is really no benefit that can come from maintaining contact with your ex. Doing so will only damage future relationships and keep you from fully accepting and overcoming the break-up. Whats done is done. Its much easier to accept and push on than it is to wallow in pity and hope for a reconcilliation. Change is inevitable. Either accept it and progress or ignore it and stagnate.

 

Your words on a warrior and victim are also spot on. But I really don't think the victim and robot parallel apply now that i've further explained my thought. Hopefully it was not your intent to imply that one who chooses not to champion total independence is a victim. Independence is a very respectable position. Those who have chosen to adopt it have clearly done so for compelling reasons. I can respect that. But, don't expect to harness the power of a deep, enriching relationship if you want to pursue this route. Don't come crying when you can't figure out why its not working out. If you live by the sword, you die by the sword. That's all I'm getting at.

[ReluctantRomeo]

Originally posted by DeaconFrost

Duh! Of course its not going to work out. Its most often because they want the comfort and powerfulness of a relationship, but aren't willing to allow true intimacy and vulnerability to exist. So, when the relationship ends abruptly they wonder why they just can't find someone who'll accept their vow of oneness. Well who would? You can't be in a romantic relationship without being dependant. Try it and you'll never get past the point where friends exist.

 

Good point, Deacon and the others. Keep me updated if ever you decide to make a thread of this - I'm trying to work thru similar issues in my head.

[NewMe]

Originally posted by No Foolin

Yes, independence is pimped in this nation. But independence for many is not without a shade of irony. Every TV program, songs etc, give you the message that your act is not together if you're not in some sort of arrangement. So those who believe that being free from the dysfunctional muck of screwed up relationships, and 60% divorce rates, are looked upon as being bitter or frightened or whats the term "robots"? No, they're free, free to deal with the only constant, themselves. However, if you think that I pimping some sort of hermit living in Colorado philosophy, eating granola, weaving my own shirts out of dried deer intestines, your wrong. Simply its a battle of rhetoric, the difference between WANTS and NEEDS. You don't need a relationship. You're not going to die if you don't have one.

 

This is an excellent point, and yes, I remember that immediately after my breakup, I was so devastated I really thought I might die. I actually did not know that I could survive without him, or life without him seemed to hold no meaning. So at that point, I needed to be told, and to believe, that I could make myself happy -- that this was possible and that it was within my "power." And sure enough, as time passed, I got to experience happy moments while in my own company and I started focusing on issues of self-esteem, which I had decided were the source of my "neediness."

 

It seemed imperative to get with the whole "no one will love you unless you love yourself first" idea, which I think is pretty close to "no one but you can make you happy," both aphorisms are about establishing a sense of one's own worth independent of a mate or relationship. The implicit suggestion in this genre of common wisdom is that you can't find a healthy relationship anyway unless one is already "whole" unto one's self. Besides which, relationship or no relationship, what could be more important than feeling good about yourself, isn't that a prerequisite for Happiness? So I had embarked on a little quest (I think it will be a life- long journey) to find and fight my personal demons, to "be true" and more accepting and kinder to myself.

 

All good stuff (and good for the self-help industry, especially book publishers, good for the shrink I'd hired, the pharmaceutical co. that makes my meds, etc.). But anyway, I feel pretty good. I've been having what might be the perfect rebound romance, and in the past couple months, have not been dwelling at all on the ex. Once in awhile, I still miss him and have a good cry, but I think I'm pretty "recovered."

 

But now I'm left with this "be happy with myself" psycho-mumbo-jumbo "work." Which I have been taking seriously, but WTF, I'm lonely. And not just "I wish I had a boyfriend," but a profoundly sad kind of existential loneliness. I am still dealing with the fact that "You are the love of my life," "I will always love you," "You are more important than anything else," etc. means absolutely nothing now. Words that seemed so timeless only had relevancy way back there in the dead past. That's really f*cking sad, and not just in my case, but in general.

 

And then I can't help but think Does it really have to be that way? This is immutably the human condition? F*ck that, why is it that we have to be "whole unto ourselves" when everyone wants to love and care for and depend on somebody else? Is everyone that's in a good relationship somehow so much more psychologically healthier than me? I'm that f*cked up? I don't think so... how can it be that I am "needier" than most, I don't think I am. AND it seems like the happiest people are those in loving relationships, people who have someone else to care for. So who came up with this "You are responsible for your own happiness" sh*t? I want to know WHY this model for "wholesome person" or "healthy relationship" is what it is. And I don't want the "why" to be because your lover could f*ck you over. That's true, he could, but I don't want to live with an outlook of the universe as some hostile place, I want to trust and risk -- those are inherent to love.

 

Anyway, that is why I am personally feeling grumpy towards the whole "independence" schtick.

[No Foolin]

hmmm, I would say this, its all a matter of perspective. Many people in relationships appear to be happy (when you got someone to deal with you can't deal with yourself, that like trying to do a term paper at a house party). If they are happy......who knows.

 

When someone rips away closeness you are left alone. All of those things that you tried to identify with another person are no longer present. So you get hurt and angry because you have to deal (that wasn't in the pamphlet). There is a tone of truth to loving yourself first. Not the answer people are looking for, but hey, nobody said this game was going to be easy.

 

You want an answer, I'll give you one..... Life was never put into place for you to live up to the expectations of others. You simply are alive and have tools to bring to the game. Life was never meant to make sense, much of the time we attempt to do just that; try to make sense out of the senseless. Your measure will be determined by how you deal with this truth. When two people join together the assumption is they will try to bring something to the table to better the experience for both people. The majority of the time this doesn't happen, somebody gets rolled. The answer is..........................There is no answer. You can't apply logic to something that doesn't make sense, because it doesn't make sense (1 + 1 = 3.).

 

When you realize that things just are, you can let it go. Things are no longer personal, you just are. When you get there you can decide how you are going to meet this world.

 

I have a quote that I was told by an NCO while I was wasting away in the middle east during the war (yes I am former military, thats all I'll say about that) I said this quote to myself enough that it is simply who I am these days, its from the movie Dune.

 

 

I shall not fear, fear is the mind killer

It is the little death that leads to total obliteration

I will accept my fear, permit it to flow over me and through me

In the end there will only be me

I shall not fear, fear is the mind killer

 

 

Live it kids, we only got maybe 75 to 90 years to live on this world, don't jam yourself in the nuts by denying yourself the gifts that you have. You're gonna cry in the middle of the night, when you're old and used up, when you realize you wasted a lifetime focusing on someone else; when you finally figure it out. But by then soon you won't "be" either, lol.

 

No Foolin

[DeaconFrost]

Originally posted by NewMe

F*ck that, why is it that we have to be "whole unto ourselves" when everyone wants to love and care for and depend on somebody else? Is everyone that's in a good relationship somehow so much more psychologically healthier than me? I'm that f*cked up? I don't think so... how can it be that I am "needier" than most, I don't think I am. AND it seems like the happiest people are those in loving relationships, people who have someone else to care for. So who came up with this "You are responsible for your own happiness" sh*t? I want to know WHY this model for "wholesome person" or "healthy relationship" is what it is.

 

Very intriguing point of discussion you raise here. I think the requirement of really loving yourself and feeling good about yourself exists because of viewpoints. When you feel negative towards yourself, your abilities, and what you have to offer you tend to put a negative spin on things that eventually creeps its way into your relationship. Pretty soon you devalidate and essentially devalue your lover's love for YOU. You start to think "how could they possibly love me. I'm no good/not worthy." You see the self-fulfilling prophecy definately has a commanding grip in this instance.

 

But I think what is the most interesting paradox here is that while I do believe that you are absolutely responsible for your own happiness, you can CHOOSE to achieve your happiness by being in a fruitful relationship. You can choose to put your time and efforts into building an enriching relationship much in the same way as you can choose to work on a hobby or go to the gym to improve strength/health, etc. While ensuring that you have a positive outlook and high self-esteem are essential to maintaining a stable relationship, they are not the only pieces to the puzzle. Rather, they are the building blocks that form the solid foundation of a healthy relationship.

 

Maybe it would be helpful for some to view independence as a period of time necessary for self explorartion as opposed a tenant of life. When you really know who you are, what you want, and where you are going then decisions become easier. You'll be able to find people who are more compatible to the way you operate/the way you think and you'll be able to make sound decisions in the game of love. Coming to grips with who we are is a massive thing to wrestle with, but nonetheless is a requirement in the walk of life. I'd say if you REALLY want to be in a powerful relationship and you feel that something is amiss then being a bit more independent (as in not pursuing or being in a relationship) as a temporary stage could prove to be a very rewarding experience. Once you can be at ease with yourself than you can jump back into the dating game with full vigor armed with a new positive outlook and essentially a new you.

 

As I have said before though, independence isn't something that you should be living behind unless that you see it as the way you choose to live the rest of your life. There are sacrifices that come with every decision and being in a deep relationship is one of them if you choose the route of independence. But sometimes we need to self-forge and redefine who we are by walking alone for a bit. That's perfectly fine. Just be completely aware of what you are doing and why you are doing it and most importantly don't string others along. If you want independence, then damnit say so! You made your choice now live by it.

 

As for me...I've been doing things by myself for a huge chunk of my life. I'm tired of it. I know what I want, how I'm getting there, and where I'd like to take it. Either your on board with me or your not. But I realize that's just me and it took me a long time to get here...

 

Originally posted by NewMe

And I don't want the "why" to be because your lover could f*ck you over. That's true, he could, but I don't want to live with an outlook of the universe as some hostile place, I want to trust and risk -- those are inherent to love

 

Nor should you. Your on the right track. You can't achieve what you want without throwing your neck out there. Just figure out yourself (if that's what you feel you need to do). Love is not easy nor simple. But intimacy (all types) is a sure fire way to maintain it. You must have elements of trust, risk, compatability and vulnerability to achieve it.

[ReluctantRomeo]

Originally posted by NewMe

I am still dealing with the fact that "You are the love of my life," "I will always love you," "You are more important than anything else," etc. means absolutely nothing now. Words that seemed so timeless only had relevancy way back there in the dead past. That's really f*cking sad, and not just in my case, but in general.

 

And then I can't help but think Does it really have to be that way? This is immutably the human condition? F*ck that, why is it that we have to be "whole unto ourselves" when everyone wants to love and care for and depend on somebody else?

 

Word.

[whichwayisup]

Bump!

 

This post is too valuable to be down so many pages!

[Fallen_Angel]

I've spent most of the weekend alternating between wanting to call my ex and talking myself out of it.

 

I'm not sure why the urge is so intense right now; it's been over a month since we last spoke and at least 2 weeks since I sent him a text message he never replied to. He also didn't acknowledge my birthday (after I had sent him a card AND called him for his birthday early last month). I should know better. He knows my e-mail address, my home address, my home number, my cell number...

 

The way I see it, he had "control" over the situation by being the one who did the dumping. The only way I can wrest some control back is by not contacting him. I'm so glad this thread exists. Sometimes I have to sit myself down and face the music. No good can come from calling him. So what if he said he wanted to stay friends and help me and blah blah blah. Apparently he said those things to soften the blow. And so what if the last time he spoke he said he needed "time" and wanted to see me sometime soon. I don't deserve this. I can't afford to spend the foreseeable future awash in my own tears. It's time for me to construct new dreams.

 

I've read this thread several times and will continue to do so. It ABSOLUTELY should be pinned!!!

[NewMe]

Well, I guess I was having a relapse of sorts. (here if anyone is interested.) For a number of factors, not the least of which being that the rebound relationship was drawing to a close.

 

Anyway, I've reconciled the interdependence question for myself somewhat. Actually it's quite simple and not the philosophical conundrum I was making it out to be.

 

Basically, neediness is unattractive, and after a breakup, unappealing potentially even to the point of repulsive. People need to love, but they always want to offer it freely, they don't want to be duty-bound to give it, and they don't want to have to be there for someone else out of guilt. So if they sense their partner has become dependent and needy -- to an unbalanced degree -- the relationship has become less fulfilling. If they've felt the need to break up, then it was probably a hard decision to come to and a hard deision to execute. They've already thought it over, and they don't want their decision tested or be made to feel like bad people for hurting you. Doesn't mean they didn't love you and may even love you still, but at this point they want nothing more than to move on.

 

So I think we are interdependent, and it's okay that many of us feel that romantic relationships are necessary to our well-being and happiness. But there is such a thing as excessive neediness, and I guess each couple needs to maintain a certain equilibrium of interdependence. We need to love and be loved, but we are also individuals with roles and relationships outside our primary romantic one and we must define ourselves through those as well. Not the least being the relationship we have with the self.

[sweetness69]

I would like to add to this about my situation. Last year I cheated on my Bf with someone else whom I thought

 

was the one or whatever. I told my Bf about it and we broke up. Well he moved on and so did I the only

 

difference is he is married now and I am not. We broke up in July 2004 and he met a girl online and then she

 

moves with him and now they are married. He calls me every now and then to see how I am doing. I cant call him

 

cause I dont know how to get hold of him anymore he moved to another state and he blocks his number so I can

 

only email him. I am no longer in my current relationship and he knows this. So what do I do cause I am getting

 

mixed signals, he knows I still love him. So what do you think it is does he feel sorry for me cause of my current

 

relationship or does he still love me and wants to be with me?

[whichwayisup]

It ABSOLUTELY should be pinned!!!

 

I agree. I always recommend this thread when I'm posting to somebody who's going through a breakup.

[No Foolin]

Originally posted by sweetness69

I would like to add to this about my situation. Last year I cheated on my Bf with someone else whom I thought

 

was the one or whatever. I told my Bf about it and we broke up. Well he moved on and so did I the only

 

difference is he is married now and I am not. We broke up in July 2004 and he met a girl online and then she

 

moves with him and now they are married. He calls me every now and then to see how I am doing. I cant call him

 

cause I dont know how to get hold of him anymore he moved to another state and he blocks his number so I can

 

only email him. I am no longer in my current relationship and he knows this. So what do I do cause I am getting

 

mixed signals, he knows I still love him. So what do you think it is does he feel sorry for me cause of my current

 

relationship or does he still love me and wants to be with me?

 

 

What does it matter if he thinks about you? Hate to say it, but it appears that you put yourself in this situation. Do yourself a favor and stop wishing on a pipe dream. We all make mistakes, learn from yours. Cut off communication and live your life.

 

No Foolin

[sanne]

dont' take this too harshly, but you've already ruined this man's life by cheating on him once. He's happily married, leave him and his family alone, just walk away. Don't think about yourself and what's good for you, try and think about what's best for him. Leave him alone.

[outdated]

Originally posted by sweetness69

So what do you think it is does he feel sorry for me cause of my current

relationship or does he still love me and wants to be with me?

 

He's married. HE'S MARRIED. And it's not to you. NO. He doesn't want to be with you, or else he'd be married to YOU. What is the use of pining over a married man? You might as well pine over George Washington. Neither of them is coming back, and at least George Washington was a president.