"There isn't going to be a next time, sorry"

[John Stiles]

I met a girl on friday that I've been chatting with online for a week or so, and something strange happened. She's a nice girl but the reason I want clarification is more due to curiosity (I'm dying to figure this out) than anything else.

 

 

 

Here's what happened :

 

 

 

On my profile I very subtly hinted that what I'm after, at least for now, is sex.

 

I sent her an invite to chat, she accepted. It went well. We chatted a few times after that, and it went well too.

 

At one point I decided to make it extra clear of what I wanted so that there was no confusion. She was fine with it.

 

After a couple of days she gave me her number (I didn't ask), and I called her and we spoke for about an hour. I think that was a bit too long but it wasn't boring, it went as well as our chats.

 

I asked her if she wanted to meet on a friday, in a pub near me, just for an hour or so, because I sometimes get a bit panicky / anxious and I told her this and she was fine with it. I didn't want there to be any pressure for me. Or for her.

 

We carried on chatting. I asked her for some recent pictures because the ones that she had on her profile were a few years old. She sent me 3, and I was a bit surprised to find that she was a bit bigger than I expected. Well actually she had already told me that she's put on a bit of weight but seeing it is different. I didn't mind the pictures, she looked fine. But I gave her an evaluation. I was a bit harsh but my criticism was really about the pictures themselves / how they came out, and not really so much about her. Basically I said that they didn't do her justice like the older ones.

 

She wasn't happy at all with this. She believed me when I said that I didn't mean to seem harsh on her and although we had a brief disagreement, it was sorted out. But at one point she sent me a text which was about not only my critique of her pictures but also about what I was after, and she basically said that she really liked me, the implication being that she wants more than just sex. She said forget about it and it was nice to almost meet me.

 

But the next day she sent me a couple of texts saying that she wanted sex. When I said what's all that about all of a sudden she said that she's simplifying things and is now telling me what she wants. So it was all on again. I was confused about her habit of changing her mind but I thought oh well let's just get on with it.

 

Then I changed my profile. The things that I said gave her the impression that actually I'm very arrogant, and she was really put off. I knew I was taking a risk but at the same time I was just having fun, and actually I don't think everyone would get the impression that I'm too arrogant, but obviously that's the effect it had on her. She blocked me and didn't send any more texts. But at this point she hadn't explained anything yet.

 

I have to point out that throughout all of our chats and so on I was being quite cocky with her but in a very playful way that made her laugh, not in an ******* ish way. When I noticed that she had blocked me I wrote her a limerick about her flakeyness, but she didn't respond. Then I waited a day and sent her an email asking what's the problem. She told me. After a couple of emails it was all sorted.

 

We met in a pub near me. Everything went extremely well. She was very nervous, and I could tell that she liked me a lot. The idea was just to meet for an hour or so, the purpose of that being to put her at ease so that she doesn't think I'm desperate to jump on her, but also for me, so that I could relax knowing that there's no pressure (because of my panic thing). I was trying to help both of us. She seemed fine with that.

 

　

Then we went for a walk. Then as I walked her to the bus stop she said that she needed to go to the bathroom and why don't we go to another pub. She didn't want it to end, but I did, because I wanted to leave something to the imagination for next time. But we had another drink. Because she was nervous she was drinking a bit faster than me but she wasn't drunk, maybe just slightly merry, if anything at all. Then she started with the sexual innuendo, and I joined her. Everything was going well. I kept making references to my flat being just nearby, but that it's not ready (which is true - I deliberately kept it a bit messy to remove any temptation on my part to take her home).

 

From about halfway into the first pub until the very end we were kissing from time to time. Like I say it went well.

 

　

 

Then I walked her to the bus stop. When the bus was ready to leave she walked on and just said see you later. That's it. I thought that's weird, it doesn't add up. So I said yeah see you later and walked off like it was no big deal, because I didn't want to make a fuss (I don't like to seem desperate). After a bit I turned around and tried to catch her looking in my direction, and I gave a sort of half wave, even though I'm not sure she noticed.

 

　

 

When I got home I expected to get a text saying thanks for a nice time etc etc, but there was nothing. Again, weird. So I sent her a text, she replied, in a positive way (although she took quite some time to), then I sent another, then she sent one (again, positive), then I implied that I wanted to do something with her over the phone (this wouldn't have shocked her as I've suggested it before and she has said ok but not done it), then there was no reply.

 

　

 

The next day I got a text saying "There isn't going to be a next time, sorry" (in reference to me saying something about next time in one of my texts the night before)

 

Very very strange. It doesn't add up.

 

　

 

Our chats went well, and throughout our meeting she had an almost permanent smile. She did have a very good time and so did I. I have to say that I highly doubt that the phone sex suggestion in itself is the cause of her weird text.

 

 

 

Here are my theories as to why she sent that text :

 

 

 

　

 

* She really really really likes me and thinks it's a shame that all I want is sex. But to be honest I'm open to whatever happens (although I didn't say it). At one point during our meeting she said that she only sent the sexually suggestive texts to me (before meeting) because I wanted sex. But that's weird, why not just not send them and stick to what you want, rather than buying into my ideas.

 

* Someone has suggested to me that my mistake was not taking her home and having sex with her. The idea being that I broke the "spell" and the feeling of spontanaeity, and now, when she considers the idea of meeting again, she knows what's going to happen in advance so she can't rationalize it by thinking "it just happened". She certainly seemed keen on coming back to mine, even though she knew my flat wasn't ready and I really didn't want a messy flat. So I don't think it was my mistake. If anything it was her mistake. I think she should have agreed to end it after a short time. She knew that I was a bit nervous and wanted to get comfortable with her first, and then meet again. She didn't want to feel like a slut by agreeing to meet again knowing what's in store, and I didn't want to make her feel like a slut by having sex with her on the first night.

 

* Some other weird reason that I haven't yet though of.

 

　

 

Those are just theories, anyway.

 

 

 

　

 

So, based on everything, what do you think the problem is, and how can I solve it?

 

　

 

By the way today I sent her a text saying (sarcastically but playfully) : "If you have another change of mind [in reference to her frequently changing her mind], I'll be at the [pub] this friday at 8, or maybe I won't, or maybe I will, or maybe not, oh I don't know [playfully making fun of her changing her mind]". I've had no response.

 

And I've now removed her number (I didn't memorise it) and blocked her (even though I'm blocked myself) to remove any temptation to contact her. But her email address is so easy to remember that there's still the possibility that I could email her, but I don't think I'm that tempted, and I don't want to contact her until / unless she contacts me first.

Edited July 29, 2012 by John Stiles

[rocketman122]

Your fingers ok after typing all that haha

[John Stiles]

Your fingers ok after typing all that haha

 

Just about.

[mickleb]

How many responses have you have to your slightly arrogant, 'I'm just looking for sex' profile? I'm just curious because I've heard it's extremely difficult for guys on dating sites, so just wondering if your approach is working.

 

Anyway, I'd say it's not necessarily that she really likes you, she might really want you to like her, though - there's a difference. She sounds, to me, like she has pretty low self-esteem. (There is a law that you never comment adversely about a woman's size, if you want to get in her pants, btw.) I think she met you to try to convince you she was worth more than just sex. (A stupid plan that was doomed to fail.) Anyway, if you truly are open to more (as you said above), you need to be very upfront about that.

 

The whole thing was a big fail on both your parts and, unless the both of you are truly crazy, won't continue. Next time, keep it honest and simple. If someone flip flops like she did - expect nothing. You do come across with a bit of a 'God's gift' attitude. This is unattractive. Don't try to fix this, it will just become more icky than it already is.

[John Stiles]

How many responses have you have to your slightly arrogant, 'I'm just looking for sex' profile? I'm just curious because I've heard it's extremely difficult for guys on dating sites, so just wondering if your approach is working.

 

Anyway, I'd say it's not necessarily that she really likes you, she might really want you to like her, though - there's a difference. She sounds, to me, like she has pretty low self-esteem. (There is a law that you never comment adversely about a woman's size, if you want to get in her pants, btw.) I think she met you to try to convince you she was worth more than just sex. (A stupid plan that was doomed to fail.) Anyway, if you truly are open to more (as you said above), you need to be very upfront about that.

 

The whole thing was a big fail on both your parts and, unless the both of you are truly crazy, won't continue. Next time, keep it honest and simple. If someone flip flops like she did - expect nothing. You do come across with a bit of a 'God's gift' attitude. This is unattractive. Don't try to fix this, it will just become more icky than it already is.

 

What makes you think she might have low self esteem (apart from the pictures thing), and that she only met me to reassure herself of something?

[Snakechammah]

Despite the post being an epic of an essay, I had actually enjoyed reading every bit of it. Very entertaining.

 

However, I have no advice. I'm not sure what to say. The two of you sounds really weird. Kinda make a cute couple.

 

One wants sex but is open to other things. The other wants other things but open to sex. In the end, both are rather flaky and can't make up their minds.

A ping pong two.

 

It is difficult for a girl to say 'There won't be a next time' because as we know, most girls are attention whores and would LOVE to lap up attention at any given chance, but for this chick to say it clearly means she must really had enough of you. And to top it up, she ignores all your texts. THAT should be further proof she meant business.

 

So don't bother contacting her. You'll just appear desperate. She's written you off... cos hey, you said she was fat! Hmmph!

[MarlyStar]

You kind of came off to her as a jerk and a desperate wanna be player. You were online 'subtly' trolling for sex (maybe so subtle it's not clear?). She wanted more. You admit you were sarcastic and cocky and you were rude to criticize her pictures. She blocked you, and yet you still pursued her--that comes off as desperate.

 

Also if you just wanted sex, you wouldn't have bothered to 'sort out' all the misunderstandings and faux pas you made prior to meeting her--what you really wanted was a relationship where you owed her nothing emotionally in return. And you put in the work to sort out all those misunderstandings 'just for sex' because you wanted a relationship of sorts--or you are so hard up for sex you are willing to overlook the insult of being blocked to get it. You gave her mixed messages.

 

She blocked you initially because she thought you were a jerk. You were just looking for sex when she wanted a relationship. People just looking for sex don't criticize the pictures of people they want to have sex with: they either accept them and find something to appreciate sexually about the other person despite the flaws--or they find someone else. After all what could she do about your criticisms? What kind of a thing is that to tell someone: you looked better a few years ago when you weren't so fat but I'll still have sex with you (because I'm desperate and have no other opportunities)? What were you thinking? Either her pictures are enough for just a sexual relationship, or you move on to someone else (which it's clear you don't have).

 

You were a jerk and she blocked you for it. Deservedly.

 

When you started back peddling and 'fixing' the problem your rudeness and insensitivity created, (instead of just moving on like most guys would), you made her think one of two things was going on: you liked her more than just for sex and wanted to repair the damage you did and create a relationship of some sort: FWB or maybe something more. Or you were so desperate for sex with someone, anyone, and all you could attract was unattractive her so you were okay with scraping the barrel so to speak.

 

You think you were being playfully cocky with your criticisms and your limerick about her 'flakiness' and your arrogant profile, but she found it unpleasant and blocked you.

 

You worked hard to fix the misperceptions your picture comments and other 'playfully cocky' statements created, so she decided to give you another chance. You gave her the impression you cared about what she thought and felt, so she thought maybe there could be something there. After all you must have seen something in her to value to work so hard after being blocked to fix it. At least that's likely what she was seeing. Yes, she agreed to sex, but she wanted a relationship. She rejected you for sex when she blocked you and your 'fixing' the reasons she blocked you appeared to her to be you offering something of a relationship.

 

You went to the pub and YOU thought it went fine: but clearly it didn't. She went with the task of determining whether you were a jerk worthy of blocking or whether you had some substance to you. The two of you engaged in sexual flirting and a few kisses, she enjoyed herself--but somewhere during the 'date' she came down on the side of you're a jerk.

 

Who knows what it was: maybe she didn't like YOUR looks, maybe the kissing wasn't all that great, maybe your sexual flirting was crude. Or maybe it was comments like you wanted to keep it to an hour to control your 'panic' or you deliberately kept your apartment messy to discourage sexual encounters (both strange phenomenon--and even if you didn't say those things, you may have said other odd things that seem self aware or sophisticated to you, but come off as strange to others). Maybe you continued in your 'cocky playfulness' which you already knew she interprets as blockable arrogance, who knows.

 

In any case at some point during your date, she 'nexted' you. It doesn't matter if you took her home rather than to the bus or not, her had you invited her she would have declined. Maybe she was initially interested at the beginning of the date, but clearly by the end, you either turned her off by your desperate wanna be a player game, said something offensive again, or didn't give her the 'clue' she was looking for when she agreed to giving you a date and another chance. (which could explain she appeared not to want the date to end, she was looking for something that you never gave her and she was giving you all the chances possible).

[mickleb]

What makes you think she might have low self esteem (apart from the pictures thing), and that she only met me to reassure herself of something?

 

Because she agreed to meet you for sex but I don't think that's what she really wanted. She was flattered by the attention but thought she'd try to change your mind. Women do this sort of thing, sometimes. And, from what you said about her - not being able to be clear about what she wanted, saying no then saying yes, I just get that impression.

[MarlyStar]

Here's an example of what I mean

 

* She really really really likes me and thinks it's a shame that all I want is sex. But to be honest I'm open to whatever happens (although I didn't say it). At one point during our meeting she said that she only sent the sexually suggestive texts to me (before meeting) because I wanted sex. But that's weird, why not just not send them and stick to what you want, rather than buying into my ideas.

 

If she really, really likes you (which is debatable since you've only been aware of each other for a week, spent most of that time texting, had one or possibly two phone calls and one date, and during that week of being aware of one another she was so offended and turned off by you that she BLOCKED you--then she does not really, really like you. She thought you were a possibility and gave you a chance, and then a second chance).

 

But anyway if she likes you and wants more than just sex, you seem to want more too--and it shows. Your profile 'hinted subtly' that you only wanted sex...maybe it wasn't subtle hinting as much as a weakly unconvincing or maybe even nonexistant? What was in the rest of the profile, was it assuming of a relationship? Or could it interpreted that way?

 

And your attempts to repair the damage your cocky arrogance did indicates that you are willing for more.

 

 

At one point during our meeting she said that she only sent the sexually suggestive texts to me (before meeting) because I wanted sex. But that's weird, why not just not send them and stick to what you want, rather than buying into my ideas.

 

She was being honest and authenic and straightforward with you. At your get-to-know-you date, she was upfront.

 

You on the other hand...

 

 

...But to be honest I'm open to whatever happens (although I didn't say it). ...But that's weird, why not just ... stick to what you want...

 

So why not say it if it's true? Maybe that's what she was looking for and not getting it is what torpedoed your chances with her?

 

She was authentic and honest with you. You weren't with her. You come off as playing games--and being contradictory. The weird one of the two of you is more likely to be you.

 

I think you over estimate your command of the situation and under estimate her perception. You are confusing her with these games, and she's got no investment in you and is less desperate for either sex or a relationship than you are--so she's going to throw in the towel quicker. People like you, posturers, are exhausting. She walked away.

 

So again, the question to ask yourself, is if you are open to whatever happens, and you know she wanted more than just sexual encounters, why not let her know that?

[Kamille]

Study after study show that men tend to over-estimate women's interest levels.

 

My guess is that when you two finally met, she didn't feel the attraction.

 

Rejection happens to everyone. You're better off accepting it than trying to analyze her psychological motivations.

[weallfalldown]

Ha,.,,she blew you out..get over it move on man!.

[MarlyStar]

Study after study show that men tend to over-estimate women's interest levels.

 

Really? That's interesting. I didn't know that. I would have thought it was the other way around, hence books warning women against doing that (such as "He's Just Not That Into You").

[dreamingoftigers]

If there was no attraction, why did they kiss? Beer Goggles?

 

When I was younger I often felt the pressure mixed with guilt of "well I dud agree to meet this guy for a date, I might as well kiss the idiot so he doesn't feel like a total loser."

 

I've known friends that have started relationships this way.

 

They'll go to bed with the idiot and the emotional attachment plus the thrill of having a new person in bed will catch them off-guard. Plus the guy is all thrilled so he'll shower her with attention until the thrill wears off.

 

Usually both are pretty immature.

[weallfalldown]

Hi Alex....

[xxoo]

Sounds like she had psyched herself up for casual sex that day, drinking alcohol for "liquid confidence", but the fantasy doesn't hold up for her in the harsh light of day.

 

You missed your shot.

[John Stiles]

Marly star...

 

Your lack of comprehension of virtually everything that I said is exquisite, even down to the order that they happened, in some cases. I've never read a more self assured yet utterly misguided critique of a situation. I enjoyed reading your posts, they were a fascinating study into how to fire off 100 opinions on something that you never paid any attention to. What can I say, well done.

[MarlyStar]

Well since your approach worked so well for you, continue on.

[John Stiles]

Well since your approach worked so well for you, continue on.

 

Oh look, another opinion. Fancy that.

[dreamingoftigers]

She had gained weight and did want a relationship with someone. But when they met she knew it wasn't a relationship thing and was trying to go for sex, but he didn't jump for it which kaiboshed her self-esteem more. She probably thought he was rejecting the sex because of some attraction thing. So she couldn't figure out what the hell he wanted and she didn't want him as a boyfriend. Nexted.

[John Stiles]

She had gained weight and did want a relationship with someone. But when they met she knew it wasn't a relationship thing and was trying to go for sex, but he didn't jump for it which kaiboshed her self-esteem more. She probably thought he was rejecting the sex because of some attraction thing. So she couldn't figure out what the hell he wanted and she didn't want him as a boyfriend. Nexted.

 

That makes sense, except that I did let her know that my flat wasn't ready. I really didn't want her to come to a flat which was not presentable (which I mentioned to her) and also I didn't want her to feel like a slut by doing anything with her sexually on the first meeting, even though it's ultimately what I was going for. If you're right, it means that her self esteem issues were so big that it made her maybe forget that, or she remembered but her self esteem issues were that bad.

 

My intentions were noble but I think she just freaked out, for that or some other reason. Sometimes women do that. Sometimes it's not the guy's fault.

[weallfalldown]

JEEEZ..as you yanks say haha....what is the point in this thread?...you got shunted.....so what!....is it your wounded pride your trying to save?....just for a measley turn down?....get a grip man.

[John Stiles]

JEEEZ..as you yanks say haha....what is the point in this thread?...you got shunted.....so what!....is it your wounded pride your trying to save?....just for a measley turn down?....get a grip man.

 

No. It's good to know why things happen.

[CarrieT]

With all due respects, THIS:

On my profile I very subtly hinted that what I'm after is sex.

 

I decided to make it extra clear of what I wanted so that there was no confusion.

 

And THIS:

My intentions were noble

 

Contradict each other. Please don't build up your "intentions" as being noble and try to figure out a girl's psyche when you are just out there being a player and looking for sex.

 

Your self-analysis will never work because the nuances of actions and interactions get blown out of perspective when there no intention or direction towards the establishment of a relationship but just the attainment of sex.

 

 

No. It's good to know why things happen.

You won't ever figure it out until you get vested in the potential of a real relationship. You can't know why things happen when it is only about sex.

[John Stiles]

With all due respects, THIS:

 

 

And THIS:

 

 

Contradict each other. Please don't build up your "intentions" as being noble and try to figure out a girl's psyche when you are just out there being a player and looking for sex.

 

Your self-analysis will never work because the nuances of actions and interactions get blown out of perspective when there no intention or direction towards the establishment of a relationship but just the attainment of sex.

 

There's no contradiction. I wanted sex, but I didn't want it on the first meeting. What I wanted was to get to know her, and I did. I found through our chats and when we met that she has a really nice personality. I like personalities. My intentions were noble because even though I wanted a casual dating kind of thing (and I had the honesty of telling her so as to not lead her on, which she appreciated, by the way) I didn't want her to feel like a call girl, just coming round my place for sex. That's why I intentionally kept my flat not quite ready so that I myself wouldn't be tempted. I wanted to meet her, talk with her, have a laugh, get to know her and build comfort between us, and then walk her to the bus stop and then see her again another time. I made a tremendous effort to make her laugh, make her feel listened to, and generally be entertaining company. She was very nervous at first and I helped her to relax and she appreciated it. As I have already said she was smiling and laughing throughout the whole time.

 

There's no contradiction. Don't judge me by the standards of whatever it is that I may come across as to you. Stereotyping people isn't helpful. And face it, people who pretend not to be interested in sex are the most manipulative and inauthentic people. They do nice things with an agenda in mind, unrelated to how they try to come across. I was honest with her, but it's not like I just wanted her to pop round for a f u c k without appreciating her as a person.

 

So, what's unnoble about wanting sex, and what's unnoble about being honest about it, and what's unnoble about not wanting it on the first meeting so as to not have her feeling like a slut? And why is the guy the unnoble one for wanting sex and the girl isn't unnoble for understanding and agreeing? Must everything be the guy's fault? Women can be freaky and crazy, and they can behave erratically.

Edited July 29, 2012 by John Stiles

[dreamingoftigers]

That makes sense, except that I did let her know that my flat wasn't ready. I really didn't want her to come to a flat which was not presentable (which I mentioned to her) and also I didn't want her to feel like a slut by doing anything with her sexually on the first meeting, even though it's ultimately what I was going for. If you're right, it means that her self esteem issues were so big that it made her maybe forget that, or she remembered but her self esteem issues were that bad.

 

My intentions were noble but I think she just freaked out, for that or some other reason. Sometimes women do that. Sometimes it's not the guy's fault.

 

Hearing that "your flat wasn't presentable" sounds like a line that women would use to avoid bringing a guy home. Lol.

 

I like how you said your intentions were "noble." ha ha trying to wait for date "2" for purely casual sex is "noble" these days.

 

It's funny because it is true and it's funny because it's sad.