Anyone think MC ever had real positive benefit?

[evryrozhasitsthorn]

I've done IC and MC for the better part of two years now, and I'm ready to quit. I've experience ignorant and inept counselors and even some competent ones, but I think even the good ones aren't helping us make progress. I'm ready to quit all counseling. I've spent THOUSANDS of dollars, and it has amounted to nothing more than a marriage about to go down the tubes.

[tojaz]

MC and IC are not a magic wand, you get what you put into them. A quick glance at your other threads gives the impression that you have entered counseling with a lot of things already determined.

 

Counseling can work wonders, but there is a certain amount of work that the patient has to do, a counselor doesn't have all the answers, they're not supposed to, they give you tools to help you find them yourself, but you have to be open to that and willing to take a long hard look at these things and give it an honest chance.

 

Start here.....

 

I don't let myself worry about emotions. I have to provide for my family. I have my own business and if I don't work, I don't get paid. I know that might catch up with me at some point, but I'm in survival mode. I have a counselor, and good friends, but none of them can change my wife.

 

TOJAZ

[carhill]

it has amounted to nothing more than a marriage about to go down the tubes

Having walked the path, sometimes that's where it leads. What have you learned about yourself in the process?

[evryrozhasitsthorn]

I will go ahead and answer my own question. I just found out why my wife had been acting strangely around me and not really engaging for almost two years. Shortly after disclosing her affair, we saw a counselor (a woman who i'd love to name here so everyone can steer clear). She was wrong about many things in our five months together, but I just found out this week that the moron suggested to my wife to read a book about BPD because she suspected that I might have it.

 

Everything made sense now. What is ironic if you've seen any of my other posts is that I suspect my wife is BPD! I didn't come to this conclusion myself. I have a close friend who is a phd psychologist, and my own IC both suggested I read a book to learn how to deal with the loved one who is BPD.

 

 

So this lousy counselor has cost me thousands of extra dollars in counseling with no real hope of improvement because this incompetent fool gave my undiscerning wife a license to continue her journey in a false reality rather than face the truth and get better.

 

 

I could be a better counselor than this b---h and I wouldn't have to say a word!

 

 

I rest my case!!!!

[tojaz]

I will go ahead and answer my own question. I just found out why my wife had been acting strangely around me and not really engaging for almost two years. Shortly after disclosing her affair, we saw a counselor (a woman who i'd love to name here so everyone can steer clear). She was wrong about many things in our five months together, but I just found out this week that the moron suggested to my wife to read a book about BPD because she suspected that I might have it.

 

Everything made sense now. What is ironic if you've seen any of my other posts is that I suspect my wife is BPD! I didn't come to this conclusion myself. I have a close friend who is a phd psychologist, and my own IC both suggested I read a book to learn how to deal with the loved one who is BPD.

 

 

So this lousy counselor has cost me thousands of extra dollars in counseling with no real hope of improvement because this incompetent fool gave my undiscerning wife a license to continue her journey in a false reality rather than face the truth and get better.

 

 

I could be a better counselor than this b---h and I wouldn't have to say a word!

 

 

I rest my case!!!!

 

BPD is one of those terribly overused/misused terms on this site, probably second only to emotional abuse.

 

Borderline personality disorder: A condition in which people have long-term patterns of unstable or turbulent emotions, such as feelings about themselves and others.

These inner experiences often cause them to take impulsive actions and have chaotic relationships.

 

 

The key here is the word long-term. People with BPD deal with it for a lifetime, or get diagnosed.

 

 

 

When a relationship is breaking down and people look for the cause, they are very unlikely to turn that spotlight on themselves, so they turn it the only place they can.... their partner. Anyone describing "their side" be it to a friend, a therapist, or here on this forum, is going to keep themselves in the most positive light. Its human nature and instinct and is very rare that a person can have problems in their relationship and honestly see both sides right off the bat it takes time, a lot of digging, and in most cases a lot of help. Some people never can.

 

 

A therapist is only working with what is given to them, so your wives therapist worked off of her description and your friend worked off of yours, both slanted in each others favor. They each made the best diagnosis they could based on the information given to them. Looking at the definition above, pretty much anyone going through a divorce or break up is going to be diagnosed with BPD based on the other persons telling.

 

 

"Woman walks into a therapists office with a black eye. She needs help, and explains that her husband had hit her last night. Therapist does the best she can to help her with her abusive husband, never knowing that he hit her to get the knife out of her hand!"

 

 

Its an ugly analogy, but things like that happen every day on a lesser scale. Both sides, both sexes.

 

 

TOJAZ

 

[evryrozhasitsthorn]

Spoken like a true greedy psycho-babbling shrink! No one is ever right, and no one is ever wrong. My wife had an alcoholic father who attempted suicide five times (two or three times in front of her), and was sexually assaulted at 19. You tell me oh wise one who is most likely to have more BPD traits? Or who is most likely to be screwed up. Sometimes common sense still works, but you therapists don't believe in that do you?

[M30USA]

Relationship related counseling/therapy only works if you accept that you, the man, are at all times at fault and that you are the one that needs to change.

 

LOL

 

Oh boy, you just opened a can o' worms, brother.

[trippi1432]

Spoken like a true greedy psycho-babbling shrink! No one is ever right, and no one is ever wrong. My wife had an alcoholic father who attempted suicide five times (two or three times in front of her), and was sexually assaulted at 19. You tell me oh wise one who is most likely to have more BPD traits? Or who is most likely to be screwed up. Sometimes common sense still works, but you therapists don't believe in that do you?

 

I keep looking at my keyboard at where the J and the P are so far apart and wondering how people get that confused...Tojaz...Topaz...I would sometimes venture to guess that the stoke of a keyboard key is about how far off people can become in their marriage as well.

 

Umm...OP, only because I would hate to get your name wrong by trying to spell out a great Poison song, perhaps if you would stop trying to make your wife's problems YOUR problems or excuses, you might get further ahead. The fact you come out here and attack someone with defending yourself by bringing up your wife's past that she probably would like to put behind her isn't BPD at all...it is about being so controlling that only you think that you can fix her when it isn't your area to fix...it's her life, past life, to fix for her.

 

So..hmm, to diagnose...no, not my area, but let me ask you something since you brought up common sense...what does your common sense tell you after this post you did? Common sense would tell you to stop trying to fix someone because you need to be loved so much and fix your own issues so you can find someone worth loving you for being someone with common sense.

[M30USA]

Here's a summary of modern counselling:

 

Like the previous poster said, nobody is right or wrong. There is no right or wrong. Right and wrong are merely what help us achieve our goals or hinder us from achieving our goals.

 

If you agree with that, modern counselling is right up your alley.

[dreamingoftigers]

I think EFT is amazing, and it does have an 80% success rate.

 

EMDR/trauma therapy is completely different from the "tell me how you feel about that BS."

 

I've been through plenty of counselors ( my mother is ADDICTED to counseling I swear and my father is NPD, so he always fires the counselor the second anything comes up that he might have to change.)

 

Counseling other than these two items I gave found more or less a waste. One MC was half-decent, she did point my husband in the right direction.

[dreamingoftigers]

Here's a summary of modern counselling:

 

Like the previous poster said, nobody is right or wrong. There is no right or wrong. Right and wrong are merely what help us achieve our goals or hinder us from achieving our goals.

 

If you agree with that, modern counselling is right up your alley.

 

The cutting edge stuff is less about compromising with stupid so that no one is happy and more about preserving relationships and individuals.

[bentnotbroken]

I've done IC and MC for the better part of two years now, and I'm ready to quit. I've experience ignorant and inept counselors and even some competent ones, but I think even the good ones aren't helping us make progress. I'm ready to quit all counseling. I've spent THOUSANDS of dollars, and it has amounted to nothing more than a marriage about to go down the tubes.

 

 

I haven't read any of the other responses so forgive me if this has been said. Is it possible that you or your partner are not truly invested in counseling...an outward show if you will? I don't think counseling works for everyone.

[bentnotbroken]

I will go ahead and answer my own question. I just found out why my wife had been acting strangely around me and not really engaging for almost two years. Shortly after disclosing her affair, we saw a counselor (a woman who i'd love to name here so everyone can steer clear). She was wrong about many things in our five months together, but I just found out this week that the moron suggested to my wife to read a book about BPD because she suspected that I might have it.

 

Everything made sense now. What is ironic if you've seen any of my other posts is that I suspect my wife is BPD! I didn't come to this conclusion myself. I have a close friend who is a phd psychologist, and my own IC both suggested I read a book to learn how to deal with the loved one who is BPD.

 

 

So this lousy counselor has cost me thousands of extra dollars in counseling with no real hope of improvement because this incompetent fool gave my undiscerning wife a license to continue her journey in a false reality rather than face the truth and get better.

 

 

I could be a better counselor than this b---h and I wouldn't have to say a word!

 

 

I rest my case!!!!

 

A counselor said this to your wife without talking to you first or without testing the both of you:eek:? Where the hell did she get her credentials...headupmybutt university?

[evryrozhasitsthorn]

I keep looking at my keyboard at where the J and the P are so far apart and wondering how people get that confused...Tojaz...Topaz...I would sometimes venture to guess that the stoke of a keyboard key is about how far off people can become in their marriage as well.

 

I think that might be autocorrect in iPad. Sue me.

 

You are a typical woman...to follow the logic of an argument is out of the question. Listen closely. I am under no delusion of being able to fix anything about my wife. First, when your wife cheats on you, all you think about is fixing yourself because you are completely lost. Second, this lunatic counselor planted the seed of me having BPD which has negatively effected her ability to see reality. Part of the damage done to my wife in her early years is that she considerably lacks discernment. She has a screw loose so that she can create a false reality and then believe it or whatever portions of it suit her.

 

I knew she had a false perspective of me, and I voiced that opinion many times, but only when she told me of this negligent counselor did I realize what was going on.

 

The last part about finding someine...go bark up another tree.

[evryrozhasitsthorn]

A counselor said this to your wife without talking to you first or without testing the both of you:eek:? Where the hell did she get her credentials...headupmybutt university?

 

Went to a "marriage intensive" and met her there. She and her husband claimed to be affair recovery experts. Found out later she isn't even licensed! Other than not realizing who I was marrying, the worst mistake of my life.

[DuckSoup]

I've done IC and MC for the better part of two years now, and I'm ready to quit. I've experience ignorant and inept counselors and even some competent ones, but I think even the good ones aren't helping us make progress. I'm ready to quit all counseling. I've spent THOUSANDS of dollars, and it has amounted to nothing more than a marriage about to go down the tubes.

 

So quit.

 

Therapy is only useful as long as you, the recipient, believe it to be useful.

 

Obviously you have gotten everything that you could get out of it.

 

Quit. Two years is WAY too long for relationship therapy, it must just be a lot of wheel spinning anyway.

[DuckSoup]

I keep looking at my keyboard at where the J and the P are so far apart and wondering how people get that confused...Tojaz...Topaz...I would sometimes venture to guess that the stoke of a keyboard key is about how far off people can become in their marriage as well.

 

Umm...OP, only because I would hate to get your name wrong by trying to spell out a great Poison song, perhaps if you would stop trying to make your wife's problems YOUR problems or excuses, you might get further ahead. The fact you come out here and attack someone with defending yourself by bringing up your wife's past that she probably would like to put behind her isn't BPD at all...it is about being so controlling that only you think that you can fix her when it isn't your area to fix...it's her life, past life, to fix for her.

 

So..hmm, to diagnose...no, not my area, but let me ask you something since you brought up common sense...what does your common sense tell you after this post you did? Common sense would tell you to stop trying to fix someone because you need to be loved so much and fix your own issues so you can find someone worth loving you for being someone with common sense.

 

Yes OP is such a "controlling" husband that somehow he must have "controlled" his wife into having an affair behind his back.

[evryrozhasitsthorn]

The cutting edge stuff is less about compromising with stupid so that no one is happy and more about preserving relationships and individuals.

 

I'll have to look these up. Sounds interesting. At least I'm finding that I'm not the only one with doubts about the benefits of MC.

[evryrozhasitsthorn]

I haven't read any of the other responses so forgive me if this has been said. Is it possible that you or your partner are not truly invested in counseling...an outward show if you will? I don't think counseling works for everyone.

 

Just in case you haven't caught up yet...my wife was unwisely choosing to treat me as if I had BPD. As a result, she has been dishonest in every session we've ever had. And with me every time I would try to ask her why I could tell she was not putting the kind of effort into the relationship that I knew we needed to make it through the infidelity. This idiot counselor gave her an excuse or a justification for why she cheated! I was obviously a monster! That she had to protect herself from!

[trippi1432]

I think that might be autocorrect in iPad. Sue me.

 

You are a typical woman...to follow the logic of an argument is out of the question. Listen closely. I am under no delusion of being able to fix anything about my wife. First, when your wife cheats on you, all you think about is fixing yourself because you are completely lost. Second, this lunatic counselor planted the seed of me having BPD which has negatively effected her ability to see reality. Part of the damage done to my wife in her early years is that she considerably lacks discernment. She has a screw loose so that she can create a false reality and then believe it or whatever portions of it suit her.

 

I knew she had a false perspective of me, and I voiced that opinion many times, but only when she told me of this negligent counselor did I realize what was going on.

 

The last part about finding someine...go bark up another tree.

 

Considering the LS company of late, I consider being a typical woman a compliment, thank you. I could say the same things of my exH, he had a lot of damage in his younger years, so did I...some of the things you state your wife has been through. Hardest thing for a child who has been sexually assaulted to go through is to see a mother she needed to protect her as a child turn a gun on herself and then find out she was going to kill you and then herself.

 

So....you need a place to put that anger huh?? Yeah, so did I at a time until I learned to forgive and live my life in spite of obstacles..namely myself. Want to argue some more?

 

Therapy is one of the hardest things you will undertake because it does put your life into perspective...goes against the grain of blaming everyone else for your life and being responsible for it....common sense.

[bentnotbroken]

Went to a "marriage intensive" and met her there. She and her husband claimed to be affair recovery experts. Found out later she isn't even licensed! Other than not realizing who I was marrying, the worst mistake of my life.

 

 

I am so sorry you had to deal with that. She sounds like a turd on the azz hairs of humanity. It makes me angry because people who are genuinely trying to find assistance and they get those who out to take whatever they can get from those who are already hurting.

[evryrozhasitsthorn]

So quit.

 

Therapy is only useful as long as you, the recipient, believe it to be useful.

 

Obviously you have gotten everything that you could get out of it.

 

Quit. Two years is WAY too long for relationship therapy, it must just be a lot of wheel spinning anyway.

 

I agree, it has been too long. Only with current one for a year, but WAY TOO MUCH WHEEL SPINNING. I'm curious what he's going to say about this new key information. He might even have a similar light bulb go off in his mind. If not, oh well...I feel so much better it's ridiculous.

[bentnotbroken]

I'll have to look these up. Sounds interesting. At least I'm finding that I'm not the only one with doubts about the benefits of MC.

 

 

I don't think MC will do you any good. As long as your wife has on her glasses with tunnel vision (including affair) there will not be anything you can work toward. I had a couple of crappy IC at a time when I needed a life line. I realize after finding the one who would not only hold me accountable for my thoughts, decisions and actions how bad the others were.

[DuckSoup]

Considering the LS company of late, I consider being a typical woman a compliment, thank you. I could say the same things of my exH, he had a lot of damage in his younger years, so did I...some of the things you state your wife has been through. Hardest thing for a child who has been sexually assaulted to go through is to see a mother she needed to protect her as a child turn a gun on herself and then find out she was going to kill you and then herself.

 

So....you need a place to put that anger huh?? Yeah, so did I at a time until I learned to forgive and live my life in spite of obstacles..namely myself. Want to argue some more?

 

Therapy is one of the hardest things you will undertake because it does put your life into perspective...goes against the grain of blaming everyone else for your life and being responsible for it....common sense.

 

But you don't really strike me as a "forgiving" person at all. You strike me as a rather truculent, nasty person sanctimoniously pretending to be "holier than thou." I know a good place where you can put your anger.....if you need a suggestion:)

 

Therapy which does not serve to connect a person's behaviors with the consequences of those behaviors--which is what you seem to be advocating as "therapy"--is absolutely worthless. Thus if someone cheats on a spouse, or lies to a spouse about why they are acting strangely towards them, as did OP's spouse, the therapy must be able to get the person who cheated/lied to observe that consequences arise from those behaviors. That's not "blaming," that's merely acceptance of reality, which if you'd been trying to pay attention rather than just sharpening your claws at the expense of OP, you'd have seen is OP's wife's problem--she creates her own reality.

 

Good therapy will try to help the person in therapy to take responsibility for their actions and understand that there is a connection between their actions and the consequences of those actions, this is a way that therapy helps people learn they have control over what happens in their lives.

 

Bad therapy--the kind you seem to be advocating, and what OP has described--enables bad behavior by failing to hold people accountable for their actions.

 

Ironically, it seems that it's OP's wife who is blaming everyone but herself for the consequences of her actions. That's the precise point OP was making, yet you were so busy being nasty to him that you must have missed it.

[evryrozhasitsthorn]

Considering the LS company of late, I consider being a typical woman a compliment, thank you. I could say the same things of my exH, he had a lot of damage in his younger years, so did I...some of the things you state your wife has been through. Hardest thing for a child who has been sexually assaulted to go through is to see a mother she needed to protect her as a child turn a gun on herself and then find out she was going to kill you and then herself.

 

So....you need a place to put that anger huh?? Yeah, so did I at a time until I learned to forgive and live my life in spite of obstacles..namely myself. Want to argue some more?

 

Therapy is one of the hardest things you will undertake because it does put your life into perspective...goes against the grain of blaming everyone else for your life and being responsible for it....common sense.

 

I have no interest in fighting with you. You are helping me make my points. I'm sorry for your painful past, but it's common sense that tells me that people who have that kind of past are deeply affected, and have trouble seeing reality for what it really is. And for some reason you (people) seem to always misunderstand what people say and think you're being blamed. You don't understand a person who isn't passive aggressive or who really doesn't need to put you down to feel good. It's like "normal" people and "damaged" people don't speak the same language.

 

 

Before you think I'm insensitive, let me be clear. I hate that these horrible things happen to anyone. And I hope whatever you do with therapy or otherwise helps you "get better".