a shell of my former self

[rhw]

hi, i've been lurking but up til now haven't posted anything. it's nice to know there is a place like this for people like us. so, here is my story.

 

i met my xMM (or maybe not x yet; another cycle of NC) 11 years ago when he'd just gotten divorced. we became friends instantly but it wasn't until the following year that we really fell. we started spending a lot more time together and it was during one of those times i learned he had a gf (because she called during our dinner!). right then, i should've pulled away but the chemistry between us was powerful (and still is, 11 years later) and neither one of us wanted to let go. he pursued me relentlessly but i kept shutting down the closer he got to me. our relationship continued well past his engagement and subsequent (really fast!) wedding. we kept coming back to each other. i moved away to another state, came back and told him i was back. he said "too much has changed. we need to associate less" but it wasn't a complete end. oh, he did this on my birthday. so began the first cycle of NC which lasted a year. we found our way back, intimate again, and then another cycle of NC for about two years, with me breaking it to wish him a happy bday. then later that year, i emailed him my confession of love, things i should've said; things he wanted me to say back when he kept telling me i needed to say something so he could leave because he actually wanted to. he has always wanted me more. anyway, after my confession, first he basically said it can't happen but then after i emailed him back, he left that door open for us again. NC again for 10 months at this point, which again i only broke to wish him a happy birthday and then later to let him know something he needed to know just in case (can't say more about this). he was happy for me about that news and more than willing to oblige. (no i wasn't pregnant. lol). found someone new on whom i projected all my feelings for MM. it was a rebound, i never really *liked* this new person but he and i are very close friends, almost best friends (though i reserve the bff title for MM, undeservingly at this point). anyway, when my feelings were rejected (and it took a lot for me to even be vulnerable enough to *feel* anything). so when that rebound thing ended, i boomeranged right back to MM and we began emailing each other back and forth. things came to light about his M that surprised me. i asked to see him. he agreed! we saw each other a couple times and then after the last time, he asked if i wanted to celebrate my bday with him. i was so excited because it was on my bday 10 years before that we'd realized we wanted each other. and i knew he still desired me, wanted me, still was very much in love with me.

 

he was genuinely keen on seeing me again, there is *no* doubt about that. but first, after emailing him to ask if he was still up for celebrating, he told me he was gonna be away that week. "oh :(" i wrote back and then left it alone. a few hrs later, i emailed him to ask if we still could after he got back cuz i still wanted to celebrate. it took him 3 hrs to reply (whereas the initial exchange re: my bday was instant). i was so sure he was going to say this can't happen or i'm sorry or something. instead, he said "Sure! :)" he's *never* backed out of anything w/ me before, so i wouldn't have even thought to question him. well weeks started flying by and i hadn't heard from him so i emailed to ask if he'd changed his mind. no reply. NOTHING. i replied, hurt in May asking why he would do that and calling him out on the obvious: he still cares deeply and still loves me. again, NOTHING. i called him once in late June but he never called back. a week later, still wanting to know how on earth he could ever do that to me and wanting him to at least say, "i'm sorry" because after 11 years, i certainly deserved that. so i added him on skype. he accepted! but then i had deleted him (as it had gone against my self-imposed NC). so i added him back again but this time he didn't accept. but he didn't block me either. he never does *except on fb where his family and friends are but not me* this was the first year i didn't email him to wish him a happy birthday cuz all i could think about is what he did to me on mine. it was a ****ty thing to do someone and he has never done that to me before. i'm certain he noticed that i didn't email him and i wonder what that made him think. so this cycle of NC has now been going on a while, not as long as previous cycles but i am so hurt, deeply devastated and as my thread title reads, a shell of my former self. early this year he told me he has never left me and never would.

 

is this the end? after all this time, i don't even get anything to let me know it's the end? in previous years, he has always let me know. or is this not and just another period of NC? lord knows we've been through longer cycles and still find our way back but this is the first time i've ever felt so low, so utterly shaken that i've spent the whole summer shell-shocked. my dream is so within my grasp now that i can't mess it up but i was and have been a mess and can't bring myself to care about anything. (oddly this dream's the thing i kept holding on to as a reason to push him away when i had the chance and he was ready and willing to break up w/ her before that stupid piece of paper bound them, which didn't mean anything to him seeing as he was still turning off his phone and spending time w/ me). i am so angry when i think of how he just bailed on me even when i gave him opportunities to say he changed his mind or we couldn't do it. like, how could he do this? but then i keep thinking she probably found out he was seeing me again and he pisses himself at the slightest whiff of confrontation so he's doing what he has to do until the radar was off. and then that makes me miss him because he is/was my everything. because i'd just seen him recently (months ago), i knew and i know this isn't someone who can shut off how he feels so quickly or be so cold as to disappear w/o a word. and yet, that's what he did. i'm so confused and hurt.

[Fitz]

 

If you are looking for reasons, it's because you are allowing it.

 

This is a great assessment.

 

Yes, you are in this situation, OP because you allowed him to treat you this way (like crap). He treats you badly, because you accept it.

 

Perhaps the more important question would be: why would you perpetually allow someone to treat you so horribly?

[rhw]

because when we are together, he is the same man i fell for and i've never thought of him as someone who could treat me horribly. if anything, i'm the stronger of us two. he's a lot of things- cowardly, "paranoid" (by his own words) and spineless. but he's also a whole lot of other more wonderful things, and he's always been the only man i ever trusted or who got in all the way (i keep barriers around my heart to let everyone out; he got in all the way to my heart from the very start). i had reason to believe that he was finally going to address his own unhappiness. and like i said, he's never, ever bailed on me or walked out on me without some kind of explanation. every cycle of NC has always been preceded by something that lets me know he's laying low for a while. this is a first and i'm blindsided. no word at all! when we were together recently, it was no act; he wanted to be around me as much as i did. he was happier w/ me than he ever is with her (yes i've met her a few times in the past). he's always been more attracted to me than to her. all i wanted from him if he wasn't going to continue this was for him to say, "i'm sorry. we can't do this." but after 11 years, i got nothing, just him disappearing.

 

i know he cannot handle someone being disappointed n him or confronting him and i'm sure he doesn't feel super great about what he did as for him this ostrich behavior (sticking his head in the sand and pretending it will go away) is easiest for him, but come on, i'm not someone who he's only known a few months. we know everything about each other. i deserved an explanation.

[whichwayisup]

he was happier w/ me than he ever is with her (yes i've met her a few times in the past). he's always been more attracted to me than to her. all i wanted from him if he wasn't going to continue this was for him to say, "i'm sorry. we can't do this." but after 11 years, i got nothing, just him disappearing.

 

He isn't happier with you than he is with her. If he was, he'd be with you ALL the time, not bouncing back and forth between two women. It really seems like after 11 years of having TWO women in his life, meeting all his needs - This has become his norm. A habit and a lifestyle. He cannot and will not choose, hense him coming back to you and you opening your arms (he knows you won't say no) and welcoming him back.

 

This man is purely selfish and a cake eater.

 

11 years you have shared him. He has no plans of leaving her to be with you. I hope in another 11 years from now he is a distant memory and you are with a wonderful loving guy, who marries you and has children with you, shares and builds a life with you.

[Emme]

F*ck 'em!

 

Read your post. Read it every day. What hurts me for you is that you haven't lived your life. He was living you were at a stand still. This man has his life and you are not a part of it. I have passed the decade mark just as you and I refused to not live. You better start living. He's backed off, count your blessings. Now see if you can open your heart to someone without him running interference.

 

...and then that makes me miss him because he is/was my everything. because i'd just seen him recently (months ago), i knew and i know this isn't someone who can shut off how he feels so quickly or be so cold as to disappear w/o a word. and yet, that's what he did. i'm so confused and hurt.

 

You need to find something else that's your everything. Start with you.

 

This is who he is. He has shut off his feelings. You are not confused, just hurt. This is your wake up call. Answer.

[Fitz]

when we were together recently, it was no act; he wanted to be around me as much as i did. he was happier w/ me than he ever is with her (yes i've met her a few times in the past). he's always been more attracted to me than to her.

 

Realize this truth: You can never truly know how he feels.

 

If he can decieve his wife, then why is it so hard to believe that he can decieve you too?

 

In other words, what is it that makes you so immune to deception, but yet his wife so vulnerable to it?

 

In fact, I would argue that YOU are more vulnerable to deception than his wife , because you desperately want to believe what he's telling you.

 

You're too invested in the affair to be truly objective about it.

Like a mother who refuses to believe her son is a murderer -to put it morbidly.

[rhw]

cuz she cheated on him, admitted to loving another man (present tense), because he and i have known each other all these years and we know each other inside out, because he was always there for me for anything i needed, because before they got married, he was at my door begging me to admit i loved him and he would end things w/ her. i couldn't then. i was terrified of how i felt about him and how he got past my defenses. there were multiple times he asked me to say something. so yes, it was *me* he always wanted but he is the kind of man who needs the stability of marriage so he married her because his whole family knew about her. i have always known how he feels about me. he has never hidden that. i don't trust words at all so if he'd repeatedly told me, "i love you" i wouldn't have believed him. but i know that i have always inspired him more, brought out the best in him, etc and that he is more himself around me than around her. like i said, he has certain traits that really f'ing piss me off. but he knows all my flaws too and accepts them and always tries to push me to be better. and when we are together, it's really, really good. we have powerful chemistry. i thought time would lessen that but seeing each other again, it was right there almost palpable btwn us.

 

what i don't know is how on earth after all these years, he could just walk w/o any kind of explanation or apology. he's *never* done that to me before, ever. you know, i would've accepted, "i'm sorry we can't do this" or "i changed my mind" or even, "please don't contact me anymore." i got nothing, not a happy birthday on my birthday when it was him who wanted to celebrate w/ me (i'd had the day off so we were gonna spend it together) and after, when weeks and months started flying by w/o a word, even when i gave him two distinct opportunities to say something or even just get frustrated enough to say, "stop contacting me." i get NOTHING. i want so badly to contact him but i've gone 35 days w/o contacting him at all, despite the pain. this is what i'm having a really hard time with and i'm trying to stay strong and not contact him. i posted here because i wanted to keep from contacting him. i'm trying everything i can but i've gone from a strong, joyful woman (who still has her dream in her grasp) to shell-shocked, destroyed, hurt and angry, and then hurt again. he was the one man i trusted most in the world and the one i had the deepest attachment to. and all that's left is a hole in me that's so huge, the life in me is being sucked right out. i never expected this from him. *never*

 

btw, i do have my own life. i am thisclose to attaining my lifelong dream. i have a loving family and so, so many loving friends (ALL of whom hate seeing me like this because again, i have never been this low ever, not even when i went through hell). i am so very strong, emotionally and physically. i stay active (in fact, remaining active is what has been my one saving grace) and i have other hobbies. i take care of myself. i just know he and i do love each other. what i want to know is how he could do this. no, you're right, i'm not ready to see him as anything other than the love of my life and my best friend (even though the man who's really proven to be a better friend--the guy i rebounded with-- is much more deserving of that title). i can't let go but i can't hold on anymore either. i am a strong, joyful, always positive, funny, beautiful and sexy woman with a very big heart. it's what drew him to me. he is not an alpha male; he's actually rather soft spoken and definitely conflict-avoidant, very easy going, basically the yin to my yang in every aspect. but all i am now is the walking wounded and i *don't* want to be that way anymore but i can't imagine my life w/o him because that really leaves me on very shaky ground.

Edited August 1, 2012 by rhw

[Artie Lang]

the saddest thing in all this is that he ruined you for any other man. you will never find another man that you'd fall in love with like this OM. you will always compare your next relationship to the intensity of the affair, and never find quite the same thrill and satisfaction. no man will ever come close to this OM.

 

in your eyes, you'll end up settling. i feel sorry for the next guy. he'll always be second best.

 

what a shame.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Artie Lang

[rhw]

nail on the head. it's what i keep telling everyone. i don't want anyone else. i'd rather live alone (and considering my career path, that is a likely scenario; one i am okay with as the job i'll be doing will always come first. but i was willing to walk away from that if he would come back to me. he knows how i feel. he knows i'd do that too, not because i think he's more important than my goal but because of the demands of the job constantly interfering w/ being a couple. and i want children w/ him and only him, or else with no one.)

 

however, *he* settled first. she is the person he settled for when it was me he wanted. i will not settle.

[Artie Lang]

i'm hoping you stick to your word and not involve yourself with an innocent person. you'll only end up hurting said person by not giving yourself to him completely.....always pining for the OM.

 

if you've resigned yourself to living this way, then so be it.

[It's Just Me]

he's actually rather soft spoken and definitely conflict-avoidant

 

You also mentioned "spineless" and "cowardly" in describing him earlier. There's your answer. You've been dumped, and he's too chicken to tell you. I do understand your need for closure, but it doesn't sound like you're going to get it.

 

The only thing I can say is that you need to start being your own best friend, and take better care of yourself to allow for healing. 11 years is a long time to be dicked around by some schmuck. You deserve far better than this. Life is not a 'Sex and the City' episode where your Mr. Big will magically get divorced and show up and rescue you in the end.

[alexandria35]

cuz she cheated on him, admitted to loving another man (present tense), because he and i have known each other all these years and we know each other inside out, because he was always there for me for anything i needed, because before they got married, he was at my door begging me to admit i loved him and he would end things w/ her. i couldn't then. i was terrified of how i felt about him and how he got past my defenses. there were multiple times he asked me to say something. so yes, it was *me* he always wanted but he is the kind of man who needs the stability of marriage so he married her because his whole family knew about her. i have always known how he feels about me. he has never hidden that. i don't trust words at all so if he'd repeatedly told me, "i love you" i wouldn't have believed him. but i know that i have always inspired him more, brought out the best in him, etc and that he is more himself around me than around her. like i said, he has certain traits that really f'ing piss me off. but he knows all my flaws too and accepts them and always tries to push me to be better. and when we are together, it's really, really good. we have powerful chemistry. i thought time would lessen that but seeing each other again, it was right there almost palpable btwn us.

 

That was then, this is now. Rhw it sounds like at one time he would have chosen you over his gf but he's definitely not as much into you now. I have read your first post through a couple of times and the pattern I noticed is that it seems it's always you who initates contact after a period of no contact. It also seems that he has tried several times to kind of push you away but you insist on holding on to him. It appears he would have happily let you go several times had you walked and kept walking. I imagine that he is somewhat bewildered as to why you haven't moved on and made a life with someone else after all these years. Oh I'm sure he likes you and laps up the attention and declarations of love you give him. I don't doubt he even participates in it. Afterall it strokes his ego and makes him feel good. However he seems quite fine when you're not in his life and he doesn't see you. Sure he tells you everything you want to hear when you break no contact so that he can see you and indulge in a little extra marital sex and romance.

 

If he wanted to be with you and he told you the truth about his wife having an affair and being in love with another man, then wouldn't this be the perfect opportunity for him to leave his wife and come to you, his one true love? Lots of guys say they don't want to leave their wife because she hasn't done anything deserving of being left and the MM doesn't want to be the bad guy and be the one who breaks up the marriage and family. Here your MM's wife has just handed him a get out of the marriage free card by having her own affair and still he doesn't want you. He could easily walk away from her, blame it all on her affair, she'd look like the cheating homewrecker and he'd come out smelling like roses. Then he could come be with you and you two soulmates could be together forever. He isn't choosing to be with you. Every year that he has spent with his wife has been a year that he has chosen her and not you. He doesn't want to be with you. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but if you want to get over this guy once and for all then you need to wake up and smell the coffee. I think you have built up him and your relationship with him all based on how he was terribly in love with you at one time. You have been holding onto a fantasy of him and what you want to believe about him and his feelings for you. He has given you nothing. He hasn't invested himself in you, he hasn't been a regular part of your life. While you have been pining and longing and fantasizing about a life with him he has been making a life with his wife. I think once you begin to see this affair and him for what they really are then you will begin to get over him. You won't be comparing every guy to him because you will see that he is not all that and you two didn't have the love story of the century.

[mercy]

rhw, you titled your thread, a shell of my former self. I find that so sad.

 

No woman should allow themselves to be used this way.

 

I know it has been said a thousand times but you really do deserve so much more out of this life.

 

You are not a shell, at least you don't have to be.

 

You deserve joy, happiness and a man that truly loves you, only.

[Fitz]

because before they got married, he was at my door begging me to admit i loved him and he would end things w/ her. i couldn't then.

 

This was character performance. People pull the same kind of thing at job interviews. Politicians pull the same kind of thing at press conferences.

Stippers do the same thing on stage at the club. In other words, they are playing a part and performing a role. Except MM didn't want a job, or good poll numbers, or tips. He was playing the role of "forbidden lover" because he wanted to be in an affair with you and be a cake eater.

 

 

..so yes, it was *me* he always wanted but he is the kind of man who needs the stability of marriage so he married her because his whole family knew about her. i have always known how he feels about me. he has never hidden that. i don't trust words at all so if he'd repeatedly told me, "i love you" i wouldn't have believed him. but i know that i have always inspired him more, brought out the best in him, etc and that he is more himself around me than around her.

 

Sounds like more smoke, mirrors, and excuses -just like the marriage bit. MM who are good at lying (performing) are good at lying (performing)! Furthermore, if he loves you, or not is irrelevant, because the bottom line is this: He does not love you enough! So who cares if he loved you a little bit? It is NOT ENOUGH!

 

what i don't know is how on earth after all these years, he could just walk w/o any kind of explanation or apology. he's *never* done that to me before, ever. you know, i would've accepted, "i'm sorry we can't do this" or "i changed my mind" or even, "please don't contact me anymore." i got nothing, not a happy birthday on my birthday when it was him who wanted to celebrate w/ me (i'd had the day off so we were gonna spend it together) and after, when weeks and months started flying by w/o a word, even when i gave him two distinct opportunities to say something or even just get frustrated enough to say, "stop contacting me.".

 

He can walk away because:

 

1. You're a threat to his marriage.

2. He's done performing for you.

3. He doesn't respect you.

4. He doesn't feel obligated to cater to your feelings -despite what you think about the supposed strength of your relationship.

 

i just know he and i do love each other. what i want to know is how he could do this.

 

Let me repeat: The validy of his feelings for you does not matter because at the end of the day he does not love you enough! This is not a game of horseshoes, so being close doesn't count! He did it because he doesn't love you enough to do otherwise.

 

no, you're right, i'm not ready to see him as anything other than the love of my life and my best friend (even though the man who's really proven to be a better friend--the guy i rebounded with-- is much more deserving of that title).

 

You don't love MM as much as you think you do. A big part of this is winning the chase and validating your selfworth.

 

Also you just want what you can't have. Which is why you aren't interested in rebound guy. There's no challenge for you to conquer. So understant that this is dysfunctional. (And it is why that PUA stuff works with so many women.)

 

I think you should seek professional counseling.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Fitz

[rhw]

Rebound guy is more like a brother to me (and his two kids are very much like nephews). he is 14 years older than me and has a gf now whom i like and respect and who likes me and isn't threatened by me at all. Rebound guy is always telling me he loves me very much (but in a brotherly way) and is ever so supportive.

 

i really do love MM more than anything or anyone. what he did was despicable and spineless but i don't or am not ready to believe that it's cuz he doesn't love me. yes, part of my anger is over things that are suddenly "not adding up" and i keep combing over everything. and it angers me that after admitting she stepped out on him that he would still stay in a r'ship where both spouses are in love w/ other ppl.

 

yes he did love me, always has and it wasn't a lie or smoke and mirrors years ago before he got married. he was ready to break up with her. when we became friends, he hadn't even met her yet. introduced much later that year by his mother who basically orchestrated the whole damn thing. he said he didn't even like this woman, she didn't like him. there was nothing. but his mother kept inviting her to everything so eventually they started dating (he's a pushover; yes, why the hell do I love a pushover when i am clearly not one?). when we realized we were in love w/ each other, they'd been dating for a few short months. he began spending most of his time with me, turning off the phone and he would always ask me a particular question and i'd give him a vacant stare. he kept doing this every week for over a year before they got engaged which is what led up to him being at my door. after the ring came on, he still couldn't stay away. we keep coming back. it's as much him as me. chemistry is chemistry. we have it. they don't, not even a little bit. but his mother (a rather powerful matriarch) adores her, his family loves her, their families are all tightknit now. and he admitted he doesn't trust her. but he won't leave cuz he's not someone who can rock the boat even if he stands to gain the one he's always wanted more from it. and she's not likely to let him go b'cuz she has security and his entire family's adoration. his family knew who i was but they never knew how involved he and i were. they still don't. he leaves for me and the truth comes out and he shakes like a leaf at the tiniest bit of disapproval/disappointment/confrontation, never mind that she hurt him too. but his family doesn't know about that. i HATE that he would rather stay in a marriage where he doesn't even trust her than be with me freely. but it's not because he doesn't love me enough. he is petrified of change, paranoid of the scrutiny and basically, very weak. these are all things i called him out on and he fully acknowledged i'm stronger than him in so many ways. still, he never walked away.

 

i do agree that i was the one who broke NC each time (except for once when we happened to run into each other and one thing led to another) but he always responded. if he didn't love me, if he didn't still want me or care, he would've ceased all contact w/ me the first time he said "we need to associate less". and i hate that i wasn't able to keep walking away. like i said, that's why i posted here. this year on his bday a few days ago, i did NOT break NC. i did NOT email him. i'm proud of myself for not falling back on that habit. all i wanted to know was how someone who's never disappeared on me w/o a word could do it this way. i know: because he is cowardly. i post here because i'm struggling not to contact him in any way.

 

but no, i do not want anyone else ever. i can and will commit to being alone. he chose to settle; i won't.

[rhw]

that's true; i have waited around for a long time and i have yet to deal with myself for why, but as angry as he makes me, i'm not likely to see him as a loser. at least not yet. maybe in time, the anger will come in swells and wash away the pain of missing him. i mean, i am more than just indignant at his callous way of walking out w/o a word. i've written things to him that i refuse to send because it won't get me anywhere. maybe when i'm far away from him, living the dream i've always wanted, i will be able to see this for what it was. but right now, i'm really just wanting *him* to man up, get over his ostrich behavior and tell me straight up that this is over.

 

except it's not over. it never is because i acknowledge that every time he is back, i let him back. i'm tired of a lot of things (the compartmentalization and the secrecy,calling me his friend when he won't even let me on his fb. no christmas cards, no bday messages, nothing that all my other male friends give me on a regular basis) and yes, i hate, hate HATE his conflict-avoidant personality. it reeks of cowardice. thing is, when he's sitting next to me or looking at me the way he does, he's the only one who *sees* me. and i see him, even these completely unattractive parts of his personality. and for that, i seem unable to let go or accept how things are.

[2sunny]

You have handed him way too much power over your happiness.

 

You need serious counseling to help you with respecting yourself and balance.

[rhw]

You have handed him way too much power over your happiness.

 

You need serious counseling to help you with respecting yourself and balance.

 

it's cuz i need him in a way i've never needed anyone. i don't like that i handed him all my power either. it started out with me giving him just a little so he could feel some strength after his ordeal long ago when we met. and there were so many wonderful times together and a lot of trust and attachment we both had forged. without him here, his negative behaviors are snowballing (or perhaps they have been all these years) in respect to the things i do love about him. but i'm not at the stage where i can just let go either.

 

it takes two to tango, right? well he's just as caught up in me too. if he didn't want anything to do with me, he'd have blocked me long ago. it's an attachment thing. he'll be back. he always comes back. i just hope that i'm already 3000 miles away by that point and living my life. i'd still take him back too if he were divorced. somehow i don't think this is the end of us, really. i've gone out with guys where after it was over, they defriended and blocked me. one wouldn't even look at me or talk to me for a year. now we're just on casual, polite speaking terms. but the point was, they blocked all contact w/ me, making it clear they wanted nothing to do with me (even though i never pursued them or was that infatuated.) and i've had men i went out with who it turns out we're better friends than anything else (like rebound guy. love him like family and oh look that's him calling me now)... i know MM isn't calling me, has basically vanished for 4 months w/o so much as a word and yes, it's a ****ty thing to do. i'm not making excuses for that. and i absolutely told him that in one of a few emails i sent months ago. but the point is, he STILL hasn't blocked my emails, he still hasn't closed all avenues of communication. there's a part of me that believes his marriage is headed for destruction. it can't last when both ppl are in love with others.

[rhw]

normally that would be true. i even tested that when i moved away for a while years ago and then came back. in this case however, me being in the city i love doing what i love (LE), i'm going to have *no* time at all to be thinking about him as every day will be career-driven. it's what i always wanted to do since i was a kid. i'll be in the city i love doing what i love with other people doing what they love. so i will have no time to think about him and we had the conversation once where he said, "i could never live in _________. It's not a place to raise kids." so i know it's not like he'll ever come track me down and once i'm doing what i want to be doing, i'm not giving that up for him. and the job itself is going to make it hard to have a relationship with him because the job will always come first.

[2sunny]

it's cuz i need him in a way i've never needed anyone. i don't like that i handed him all my power either. it started out with me giving him just a little so he could feel some strength after his ordeal long ago when we met. and there were so many wonderful times together and a lot of trust and attachment we both had forged. without him here, his negative behaviors are snowballing (or perhaps they have been all these years) in respect to the things i do love about him. but i'm not at the stage where i can just let go either.

 

it takes two to tango, right? well he's just as caught up in me too. if he didn't want anything to do with me, he'd have blocked me long ago. it's an attachment thing. he'll be back. he always comes back. i just hope that i'm already 3000 miles away by that point and living my life. i'd still take him back too if he were divorced. somehow i don't think this is the end of us, really. i've gone out with guys where after it was over, they defriended and blocked me. one wouldn't even look at me or talk to me for a year. now we're just on casual, polite speaking terms. but the point was, they blocked all contact w/ me, making it clear they wanted nothing to do with me (even though i never pursued them or was that infatuated.) and i've had men i went out with who it turns out we're better friends than anything else (like rebound guy. love him like family and oh look that's him calling me now)... i know MM isn't calling me, has basically vanished for 4 months w/o so much as a word and yes, it's a ****ty thing to do. i'm not making excuses for that. and i absolutely told him that in one of a few emails i sent months ago. but the point is, he STILL hasn't blocked my emails, he still hasn't closed all avenues of communication. there's a part of me that believes his marriage is headed for destruction. it can't last when both ppl are in love with others.

 

Just excuses and justifications for settling.

 

It makes me sad that you don't respect yourself much - and you don't respect his M either.

 

He stays quiet because he's focused on his marriage - yet you keep stepping in where you have no business.

 

Stop contacting him - forever! Work your life away if that's your choice - but quit trying to ruin other people's marriage.

 

Get counseling.

 

The bottom line is - IF he ONLY loved YOU - he wouldn't have married her at all.

[rhw]

2sunny - i am not ruining his marriage. it takes two. if he did not want me in his life (even in this secret escape hatch), he would've blocked me a long time ago. if his spouse really loved him, she wouldn't admit she is in love with someone else. like i said, neither of them really is in love with the other. why they are choosing to stay married, i will not understand. if he were to have told me, "i am happy. i am in love with my wife and i am staying in this forever," i would've respected that and backed off long, long ago, saving myself this destruction. i'm no homewrecker. but he's not happy. he was ready to break off his engagement to be with me. i stayed silent. yes, i had my chance--many, many chances--and i let fear overpower me. the only reason he got married is because he doesn't know how to define himself as an individual outside of a relationship. he's one of those types who needs to be in one all the time and needs to be married. their engagement was not even a full 3 weeks long before they married. it was rather hasty, NOT because he was so in love with this woman that he wanted to start a life with her right away but because after i couldn't articulate how much i wanted and loved him and wanted to be his wife, he walked out my door defeated. and he was engaged so they got married quickly because he needed to be married. it was *me* he wanted and i wanted him. i just was petrified to tell him that until it was too late. and his overbearing mother doesn't help matters either. yes, my MM is conflict-avoidant and passive and a bunch of things, but for whatever reason from the very start, i felt the safest i'd ever been in his presence, in his company, etc. and he felt safest w/ me too. he knows all my best qualities and my weaknesses and vulnerabilities and inadequacies and loves all of me.

 

yes, lady grey, we both have holes we needed to fill and we get that from each other. i am stronger than him but we are even stronger when we are together.

 

you know i came here only because i needed an outlet to keep myself from contacting him, which i've been good about and i intend to stay strong and not reach out. in no way am i suggesting that i am ready to move forward because i'm not nor am i going to call him a loser or cruel or anything until i am ready to see that, with enough geographical distance between us. i'm not saying ours is a great love story; i'm just maintaining that we did and do still love each other. i hate his conflict avoidance but there's no black and white here. he has loads of other traits that i fell for, that i love and that i will always love. and when i'm with him in his presence, i can feel it from him too.

 

look, i know love is actions and i'm not seeing that from him right now and i'm already angry enough about that. i don't need tough love right now cuz it's not going to work on me. telling me he doesn't love me is not what i want or need to hear, as i know he did and very likely does. i alone can get mad at him and believe me, should he finally come around again, he will get an earful from me. i simply came here because i was trying not to contact him and it's very, very difficult because i am fighting instinct here. i know it's not going to make me feel any better to break NC because he isn't going to reply. i've done everything i can to tell myself he plays no role in my world; that we have different life trajectories, that he is comfortable with a simple life with the same boring routine whereas i've always aimed for much higher. i do everything i can every day to fill up my hours or work through the pain. but telling me he doesn't love me isn't fair either. you do not know him or me or us. we don't have the love story of the century but we do have love.

Edited August 2, 2012 by rhw

[alexandria35]

rhw, you've said this in your other posts several times, you are sure he loves you.

 

rhw.......I'm no expert and I've had my own demons, but what you are describing is NOT love, it is dysfunction, it's neediness, he needs you to try to fill the holes in himself that no one can fill, the holes are a need for attention, a need for validation, a need for getting his ego stroked by a woman who always leaves the light on for him.

 

You might not like this, but you have some of the same qualities yourself or else you would have saw this for what it really is a long time ago. Highly dysfunctional, it's not a great love story. Yes I've lived dysfunctional, but no more. Had enough. When will you have had enough?

 

Oh this is so very true. I have lived this too and now see it for what it was. Fake love and false intimacy all based on neediness and a strong reliance on getting validation from something outside of me.

 

rhw, we are not telling you these things to hurt you, we are telling you these things to help you see what is real and to help you break the cycle. No contact is a great way to start, but if you keep hanging onto these romantic fantasies of yours then you will stay stuck and you really will never experience true love and intimacy with anyone else.

 

You say you need him. That is a lie you tell yourself, a trick your brain is playing on you. You have done most of your living without him. You own the credit for your successes and failures. He has contributed very little to your life and hasn't given you much. You don't need him.

 

You say you are both stronger together. Another lie you tell yourself. You keep each other weak and stuck in the same place year after year.

 

You keep talking about this time years ago when he would have broken his engagement for you. So what? That was 11 years ago and has nothing to do with your present situation. I have exes that would have married me years ago too if I had wanted to. Doesn't mean that this is how they feel about me now. As a matter of fact I'm pretty sure they don't. Stop desperately hanging onto how it was 11 years ago. That time is over and gone and you can't have it back. There may have been a small window of time where this man may have chosen you but every year since this man has chosen his wife over you. And anyways what the hell was really going on there? Why was he even with the girlfriend when he was so madly in love with you? That right there speaks volumes about his character then and he doesn't seem to have changed. He's been a cheater from almost the first day.

 

And mostly LadyGrey is correct in that two people hanging onto each other and a dysfunctional relationship is not the equal to true love. Sounds like you have hung onto him more than he hangs onto you as you say you are the one who initiates contact most of the time and he is simply receptive. This is not love. My last relationship was terrible for this. We would go no contact then one of us would make contact and the horrible relationship would start all over again. We were both convinced that are inability to simply stay away from each other meant big true fated by the universe love...LOL. Not. We were terrible for each other. Our connection wasn't based on love but on his dysfunction being a perfect match for my dysfunction. I know he will contact me again. Might be in 6 months or 6 years but I know he will make contact. I know he will tell me that I'm the only one he's ever truly loved and he still loves me to this day. I know he doesn't love me.

 

I'm sorry but it's dysfunctional to hold onto a relationship with an unavailable man for 11 years. Thinking you need this man and that he makes you stronger is dyfunctional thinking. Believing that he desperately loves you as much as you love him is dyfunctional. Why do you think he loves you? Because when you call, he answers? When you email, he responds? Big deal, that doesn't mean anything except he's up for some drama and romance when you make it available to him. He's fine with that and when your not around, he's fine too. I'm sure he plays the game of love and romance quite well when you see him and he probably mirrors all of your feelings nicely too, but it's not real life to him. He does it cause it's fun and it makes him feel good in the moment, but he isn't about to actually invest himself in those feelings. He seperates this relationship from his real life and he doesn't consider you a part of his real life. How can you still believe that you're the one he really wants when for the past 11 years he has chosen his wife? Even after she cheated on him and declares her love for another man (if that's even true) he wants her over you.

 

Let it go, accept that he didn't love you enough to really be with you, and look forward instead of backwards. Stop holding on to that time 11 years ago when perhaps he would have chosen you. That's the past, this is the present. Live in the present.

[alexandria35]

look, i know love is actions and i'm not seeing that from him right now and i'm already angry enough about that. i don't need tough love right now cuz it's not going to work on me. telling me he doesn't love me is not what i want or need to hear, as i know he did and very likely does. i alone can get mad at him and believe me, should he finally come around again, he will get an earful from me. i simply came here because i was trying not to contact him and it's very, very difficult because i am fighting instinct here. i know it's not going to make me feel any better to break NC because he isn't going to reply. i've done everything i can to tell myself he plays no role in my world; that we have different life trajectories, that he is comfortable with a simple life with the same boring routine whereas i've always aimed for much higher. i do everything i can every day to fill up my hours or work through the pain. but telling me he doesn't love me isn't fair either. you do not know him or me or us. we don't have the love story of the century but we do have love.

 

I'm sorry rhw, I just read this part of your last post. Okay I understand that hearing reading some of these things isn't making you feel better, but hopefully it will help you stay NC. You have done no contact before however and it hasn't seemed to work so maybe you could seek out some professional help for this. Afterall, it doesn't really matter what this guy feels or doesn't feel for you. I think your attachment to him stems from some deep unresolved issues that go way back in your life and perhaps thats what needs exploring.

[Emme]

RHW, This is what you need to hear.

 

You are afraid of commitment. You have used your friendship with this man to compensate ever trying a real connection with someone. By you using him to assist you, you created a dependency. He is your everything because he is safe. Now your safe haven is compromised. You don't know how to cope because you always thought he would be there. What you have to realize now is that he is possibly gone from your life. You have to focus on why you chose this way to live. You never had to worry about being alone. This can either be a growing experience or you can continue to live how you are living.

 

Your MM is growing and realizing he needs to prioritize his list. The list he once had might have had you at the top. As he matures the list is beginning to change. You didn't want him - You didn't want to try. You decided to play it safe and put your wall up to protect you. He got tired of trying to dig through your wall. Who's to say if he will return back to you. If he doesn't you have to learn to cope. Figure out why you live your life the way you do.

[rhw]

it was 9 years ago. he got engaged 9 years ago. yes, he was completely in love with me but because i was shutting down every time he got close, he didn't break up w/ her because as i said, he's one of those with a compulsive need to be in a relationship and cannot define himself w/o it. she was a safety net that his family (especially his mother) adored/adores. every year of his adult life, he's been in one relationship after another, spending virtually no time alone. he moved in quickly with whatever gf he was with at the time, always moving in with or relocating for. you remember the movie Runaway Bride where every time Julia Roberts' character got involved with someone and took it all the way to an engagement, the men were all so happy because she turned into exactly what they wanted? she didn't even know who she really was, she'd get caught up in someone and mold herself to be exactly who that person wanted to be? That's my MM. it's what he's always done. he's been betrayed in the past (before this W of his) and has been in several unhealthy relationships where he felt he needed to save his SO from herself. he struggles w/ low self-esteem.

 

He got out of an awful marriage and then he met me. I am *nothing* like the women he's been w/ before. for starters, he's never needed to save me from myself or rescue me though of all his past SOs, i had probably the most f'ed up childhood of them all. i was stronger, always the stronger one. i had my own interests and while i was happy to share them w/ him ("share" meaning tell him what my interests were), i wouldn't let him become a version of himself he thought i wanted. i let him be HIM. he loved that. i pushed him to focus on what he liked to do, what made *him* happy. he was broken and bitter when he met me. but with me, he flourished, he was happy and he looked forward to the time he spent w/ me. he got to be who he was and our friendship just grew. at this point he still didn't have a gf and wasn't seeing anyone. late that first year is when he went out w/ *her*. it wasn't til a few months later when the sparks started flying btwn us that i found out he had a gf but again, he pursued me relentlessly, ready to end it w/ her to be with me. all i had to do was say "yes".

 

 

the times we were together recently (no intimacy though i strongly suspect that that would've happened too if we had gotten together for my bday) . . . he was telling me he couldn't trust her. i told him i would never have hurt him like that and he said, "i know." he was starting to consider me again. if the bday celebration had happened, he would've wanted to see me again after that too. none of his emotions are an act. he doesn't play at loving me or telling me what i want to hear. he knows my history and therefore knows i can sniff BS from miles away.

 

yes i know it kills me that he still keeps choosing to stay with her when he could have me. but as i've said before, he'd crumble to pieces at the thought of having to take the steps to leave because then all the scrutiny would be on him. he told me recently he was trying to figure out the next stage of his career but can't even work up the guts to make that change. he remains stagnant.

 

ha! so far, i've highlighted his conflict-avoidance, stagnant behavior, low self-esteem and spinelessness. why in hell would i want to be with someone like that? because with him, i am the safest i have ever felt even w/ those not so admirable qualities. and with me, he is his authentic self which i don't think he ever fully embraced (just shades of it in his time w/ me). safety is huge to me. all i want at this point is for him to man up and say it is done. i'm no stalker nor would i continue to hold on to someone who tells me it's over. i do not pine for someone who tells me clearly in words, "it's over." i do have more self-respect than that. i could mourn the loss and then be like, "Fine." i've been in other relationships that ended. i didn't spend a second pining after them and wanting to know why or hoping for a second chance. i'm not like that. once it's over, it's done to me. he won't even give me that which really angers me because if i'm holding on, well he's holding on too. See? it's not just me fantasizing or whatever. it's not that he's continuously choosing her over me because he wants to be with her. it's choosing to be in that life because it's become a routine and breaking from that is extremely uncomfortable. and as i told him a few years ago, it's simply easier to stay w/ someone who your family adores and has welcomed into the fold than it is to be with me. yes he's fine when he doesn't hear from me and he's happy when he does, i know that. but fine doesn't mean "happy". fine just means that he can keep playing his married life charade.

 

i'm still going to live my life because i'm not going to let my goal slip from my fingers for him. i was willing to walk away from that if he came back to me simply because that lifestyle is not conducive to a healthy relationship. i would want to be with him, i would want kids with him and i'd want to be in bed w/ him every night and the life i'm choosing to live makes none of that possible. i *am* tired of being an escape hatch though. the last email i sent him was in mid-June and i asked him to please just email and say, "it's over. be the man i know you to be and just say, i'm done here and you'll never hear from me again." he didn't do that. nor has he blocked my emails.

 

like i said, i am NOT in any way going to call him a scumbag, cheater, loser or whatever. i am still very deeply in love with him and have not yet untangled myself from it. i post here to keep myself from contacting him as all NCs before have failed. this time i have to see myself through it. i get enough "tough love" from my friends and i've stopped speaking to one of them because she kept texting me to say, "he doesn't love you. you're nothing to him" and that only made me sink further. should i come to the realization that i really don't mean **** to him, i will on my own time. i'm not there yet. please don't force me to be.