Third Date Syndrome

[beenburned]

I think Miss Bee described affairs well, as a glass ceiling with limitations.

 

It has nothing to do with whether they love each other or not.

 

The limitations are simply there due to it being an affair.( the secrets, not being seen in public, not having life's daily responsibilities to share,etc)

[Summer Breeze]

Well, I posted it and I still stand by it for my sitch.

Yup you did. I wasn't sure if it was ok to quote from thread to thread so I did what I thought was right. You aren't the only one who has said it in comments and threads. I've been reading it for several years now.

I have no idea what their situation was so I don't have any idea if it was perpetually a 3rd date or not but I do recall it was a longish A so I would assume at least her version of it was probably not similar to an ongoing third date. I don't profess to know though. I took the thought of the third date syndrome and since it's so far removed from what I lived and anything else I've read here I started the thread.

 

Question: During your affair, did you pay a bill together, stay up all night with a sick child negotiating who got the next hour of sleep before work, or have to decide which one of you would take the ailing parent to doctor office?

We didn't pay bills together but we did work on budgets and financial reports relating to individual businesses we were each setting up. We did all of the planning and due diligence and financial reports for all 3.

We were both 50ish so nightly issues with sick children wouldn't have entered into the mix no matter what.

We did both plan getting his mother to the doctor after a stroke. I made several trips (2ish hours each way) to help get her to several appointments.

We were together for several years and we experienced more together than any single man I've dated for that length of time.

 

 

Because those are the realities of a long-term committed relationship.

It was also the reality of my A.

 

 

Talk is fun and talk is cheap and listening and talking of it all is a great aphrodisiac, and waiting and waiting and waiting to see each other without interruption does make the heart grow fonder.

You have this perception that everyone just sits waiting in wild anticipation for the magical moments. I always looked forward to seeing MM but until my xH cheated on me I always looked forward to seeing him too. Maybe it was the case for your fWS that the anticipation was some sort of aphrodisiac but it obviously isn't for everyone.

If talk is so cheap then why does everyone need to do it? Why do reconciling couples need to do it? Why to BS complain that WS never did? Talk is not cheap. It creates intimacy and communication that strengthens any bond. From everything I see talk is one hot commodity.

 

But, in your affair, what responsibilities and obligations did you have to negotiate and share with your MP?

Since we weren't M there were no more than if he were a single man. No one is saying that an A is the same as being married. We're saying it doesn't sit stuck in some perpetual third date forever. It evolves and it changes. Well you've read the thread so I don't need to say it all again.

 

 

Responses in bold

[Summer Breeze]

Just a thought...but...would anyone who was actually in an affair ever actually want to admit...even just to themselves...that the affair was in any way less than equivilant to a "full blown relationship"?

 

The breakdown in logic here...that no one has ever seen anyone "in an affair" state that their relationship is "stuck in a third date stage"...must somehow mean that the statement that affairs aren't in some way equivilant to that...is just plain silly if you think about it.

 

No one in an affair will say that their affair was "less" than anything. To do so would be to face some really hard, painful facts about themselves and their choices...and affairs are by their very nature an ESCAPE from facing those exact things.

 

Just because someone currently engaged in the act doesn't say that they think that their situation is "something"....doesn't prove that the situation ISN'T "something". Being within the situation itself creates blind spots that they may not even be aware of...that prevent them from seeing the picture clearly like someone from the outside can.

 

Bottom line...I'd be shocked and astounded if you EVER got someone currently actively involved in an affair to admit that it was 'stuck at third base'...even if it was clearly so to everyone else in the world. That lack of admittance does not disqualify the statement.

 

With all due respect I don't think you're getting it. I'm not saying an A is the same as an M. I'm saying that this fairy tale and rainbow and unicorn fantasy world version doesn't exist. As I, and others, have said in this thread it's tough. We all appear to agree that there are limitations. My OP says that there are options that an OW/OM will have to exercise because it does get tough.

 

The premise of the thread --

 

An A is tough. Many As have the APs very much involved in each others lives both with time, finances and family. There are great times and there are horrible times. BUT AN A DOES NOT STAGNATE IN A MAGICAL STATE OF EUPHORIA DESCRIBED AS A THIRD DATE. It moves and the good and bad grow and decisions need to be made. Several here have said that it would be so much easier for MM to not be involved in the A because it is a huge hassle. You see OW in here every day who are in misery or walked away or even some who have stayed and accepted it the way it is. But I can guarantee you that they'd all deny there's a perpetual third date kinda feel to the A.

 

I don't care if an A is more or less. I don't care if a M is more or less. My point is this state of a third date isn't true to most that you see in here. Any that I have seen but Spark and Trinity have experience with it so I won't say all.

 

In bold -- and saying it is the way you want to see it over and over and over again doesn't make it so.

[Summer Breeze]

SB,

 

Thank you for the compliment!

 

Mercy posted in another thread about her sister's affair. My sister also had an affair, and eventually left her H for the MM.

 

My sister, like Mercy's, also confided in me while it was all going on. All the time knowing I was a FBW!

 

I think I will start a new thread about how it affected me and my whole family.

 

As far as I know of, her H has been faithful to her. He has also been a great father to his stepson.

 

The only thing I find quite sad is, he lost his closeness with his daughters due to his XW moving out of state after their divorce. She moved to her parents hometown for their support and help.

 

He always visited them out of state, staying at a hotel while there. But it still was not like having weekly interactions with them.

 

 

That would be a really interesting thread BB. I actually read Mercy's post as well and thought how hard it must have been on her.

 

I was the child of parents that stayed together for the kids. Believe me that's no picnic either. My sister still doesn't speak to my father because of some things that happened 40 years ago. My mother would have had a much better life had she not stayed with him but that was her choice and we ended up losing some of our childhood innocence because of it. It's so sad but there is no Ozzie and Harriet, Brady Bunch kind of family. We can all just do our best.

[MissBee]

That's interesting Trinity. I wonder if his MW felt the same?

 

I think you're right about it being a coping mechanism used by some BS. Let's face it there appear to be a whole lot of lies, misconceptions, mistruths, and assumptions that both OW/OM and BS use to make their choices and blamegiving validity.

 

Truer words haven't been spoken (I exaggerate, but you get it ).

 

I think infidelity leads both a BS and an OW/OM to misconceptions, mistruths, assumptions, rationalizations etc. Each does it for a different reason, but nonetheless, both do it at some point or the other.

[Owl]

With all due respect I don't think you're getting it. I'm not saying an A is the same as an M. I'm saying that this fairy tale and rainbow and unicorn fantasy world version doesn't exist. As I, and others, have said in this thread it's tough. We all appear to agree that there are limitations. My OP says that there are options that an OW/OM will have to exercise because it does get tough.

 

The premise of the thread --

 

An A is tough. Many As have the APs very much involved in each others lives both with time, finances and family. There are great times and there are horrible times. BUT AN A DOES NOT STAGNATE IN A MAGICAL STATE OF EUPHORIA DESCRIBED AS A THIRD DATE. It moves and the good and bad grow and decisions need to be made. Several here have said that it would be so much easier for MM to not be involved in the A because it is a huge hassle. You see OW in here every day who are in misery or walked away or even some who have stayed and accepted it the way it is. But I can guarantee you that they'd all deny there's a perpetual third date kinda feel to the A.

 

I don't care if an A is more or less. I don't care if a M is more or less. My point is this state of a third date isn't true to most that you see in here. Any that I have seen but Spark and Trinity have experience with it so I won't say all.

 

In bold -- and saying it is the way you want to see it over and over and over again doesn't make it so.

 

That's the beauty...we can agree to disagree.

[Spark1111]

Responses in bold

 

And I, sorry, respectfully disagree.

 

It may or may not stay stuck in third date perfection, but it will never experience the day in and day out realities of a long term committed relationship, whether you work together, or see each other every day, or not.

 

On this, I think we do agree. As Miss Bee, said, it hits its glass ceiling by nature of being an affair.

 

And without that reality, it will never be subjected to the same stressors, same challenges, expectations or obligations.

[Owl]

And FWIW...I DO get that affairs aren't all fantasy fluff and rainbows...that there are indeed parts of them that can be tremendously painful.

 

But I think that the FANTASY of what it is, and what the participants hope it will become are still the driving factors that help both parties ignore and manage those painful parts.

[Summer Breeze]

And I, sorry, respectfully disagree.

 

It may or may not stay stuck in third date perfection, but it will never experience the day in and day out realities of a long term committed relationship, whether you work together, or see each other every day, or not.

 

On this, I think we do agree. As Miss Bee, said, it hits its glass ceiling by nature of being an affair.

 

And without that reality, it will never be subjected to the same stressors, same challenges, expectations or obligations.

 

I actually do agree. I never did say that it was the same. I was merely saying that it has it's own challenges and turmoil and heartache. It doesn't sit there nicely in la la land -- aka third date. Comparing an A to an M is like comparing apples and oranges but saying that an A holds some magical quality is not realistic.

 

I do compare the A to dating and I will happily say that the A falls somewhere between dating a single man and being M.

 

We disagree on some things and agree on others. The only point I was trying to make on this thread, actually the only question I was asking was about OW/OM thoughts on the third date thing. I wasn't trying to make it less or more than that.

[Summer Breeze]

And FWIW...I DO get that affairs aren't all fantasy fluff and rainbows...that there are indeed parts of them that can be tremendously painful.

 

But I think that the FANTASY of what it is, and what the participants hope it will become are still the driving factors that help both parties ignore and manage those painful parts.

 

Fantasy as part of getting past the painful parts doesn't equate with the A being perpetually stuck in third date mode. That is what the point of this thread is.

 

Fantasy is part of every R. I remember sitting in a cold house with my first serious boyfriend and we fantasized about me being done college and working so we could afford the heat to go higher. I remember buying a house with my xH and fantasizing about when we could afford a bigger one. I remember looking at baby clothes after a miscarriage fantasizing with xH about our next baby. Fantasy is part of every R and helps us past many hard times in our lives.

[Summer Breeze]

That's the beauty...we can agree to disagree.

 

That is so true. And, as with Spark, there is so much I agree with. Just not everything.

[MissBee]

Well, I posted it and I still stand by it for my sitch.

 

Question: During your affair, did you pay a bill together, stay up all night with a sick child negotiating who got the next hour of sleep before work, or have to decide which one of you would take the ailing parent to doctor office?

 

Because those are the realities of a long-term committed relationship.

 

Talk is fun and talk is cheap and listening and talking of it all is a great aphrodisiac, and waiting and waiting and waiting to see each other without interruption does make the heart grow fonder.

 

But, in your affair, what responsibilities and obligations did you have to negotiate and share with your MP?

 

I do think talk is cheap and I do think, even outside of affairs, in LDRs for example, sometimes they are easier conducted from afar and they aren't subject to the same pressures as a day to day live-in scenario. Sometimes they don't pan out when it moves from weekend getaways to see each other and endless e-communication and anticipation, to a regular, everyday you're here kinda thing.

 

I know for me, I liked some aspects of a LDR, just because it was more exciting. Apart from the excruciating missing of that person, I had my own commitment issues and was scared of being bored with a partner and with LDRs, I could never get bored or it would take a lot longer because we didn't spend as much face time. So the time we did spend was always special, romantic and left me more inlove with the person and longing to see and communicate again. It did stretch out the giddy romantic phase from my own experience. I liked that because my mindset at the time was that if you didn't feel that way 24/7, what was the point???

 

That said, I don't think that one is stuck at the third date or in magic land because you haven't had to nurse a sick child or pay bills. I do think every relationship can be fun and frolic the less responsibilities you have and also the less time you've been together and the more new it is. I do think LDRs, As, As that are also LD, and newly weds or newly dating couples all feature more of that intense romance and "magic", yet it often goes beyond third date stage.

 

I don't really plan on living with a boyfriend unless we're engaged at the minimum and I don't plan on having kids with a man I'm not married to. So any man I date and eventually marry will be someone I would have to get to know and marry before we introduce kids and bills and sick parents. It wouldn't be fair to say that up until we say I do it was all just the third date. Marriage, living-in and day-today do make a huge difference and change the relationship. There are more real life things to attend to together, as you mentioned, and that tests your relationship more than simply dating does. It is easy peasy to be with anyone and have a great relationship when you don't have to bear any significant responsibilities together. This is definitely true. Yet, I think there is an area between married/ltr that includes kids and joint finances and the third date. Maybe that is called the honeymoon period in general? The period after the third date and before lots of real responsibilities or trials factor in or at least the stage when there is enough novelty to keep things afloat?

Edited August 2, 2012 by MissBee

[stillwater]

Just a thought...but...would anyone who was actually in an affair ever actually want to admit...even just to themselves...that the affair was in any way less than equivilant to a "full blown relationship"?

...

No one in an affair will say that their affair was "less" than anything. To do so would be to face some really hard, painful facts about themselves and their choices...and affairs are by their very nature an ESCAPE from facing those exact things.

 

I used to say this all the time while I was in the A, and I think most people would recognize that an A is less than a full-blown relationship. That's why they want it to progress beyond an A!

[Summer Breeze]

I used to say this all the time while I was in the A, and I think most people would recognize that an A is less than a full-blown relationship. That's why they want it to progress beyond an A!

 

I disagree because no matter how you cut it an A is a relationship. Many do want to progress beyond an A. I did and when he chose not to leave I did just what I told him I'd do. I ended it. It doesn't mean it wasn't a very deep and meaningful R. It was. I've also ended Rs with single men because either one or the other of us wanted to progress it and for some reason it didn't. It happens every day. Are you saying they aren't Rs because someone wanted it to progress it and it didn't?

[Silly_Girl]

Just a thought...but...would anyone who was actually in an affair ever actually want to admit...even just to themselves...that the affair was in any way less than equivilant to a "full blown relationship"?

 

The breakdown in logic here...that no one has ever seen anyone "in an affair" state that their relationship is "stuck in a third date stage"...must somehow mean that the statement that affairs aren't in some way equivilant to that...is just plain silly if you think about it.

 

No one in an affair will say that their affair was "less" than anything. To do so would be to face some really hard, painful facts about themselves and their choices...and affairs are by their very nature an ESCAPE from facing those exact things.

 

Just because someone currently engaged in the act doesn't say that they think that their situation is "something"....doesn't prove that the situation ISN'T "something". Being within the situation itself creates blind spots that they may not even be aware of...that prevent them from seeing the picture clearly like someone from the outside can.

 

Bottom line...I'd be shocked and astounded if you EVER got someone currently actively involved in an affair to admit that it was 'stuck at third base'...even if it was clearly so to everyone else in the world. That lack of admittance does not disqualify the statement.

 

Okay, here's my take. It was not like being stuck at third date. There were practical issues to be dealt with, there was some conflict, there was some difficult soul-searching and we did coupley things like care for poorly children and deal with blocked drains.

 

BUT... If it wasn't 'less than', for me, what was I doing on here having a hissy fit about the fact things weren't moving forward? Why was I frustrated and upset? Because I was looking for long-term commitment. At that time, I wasn't getting it. If I didn't want that then I suspect most of my relationship needs could have been ticked as being met. But I wanted more. Yes, it was 'less than'.

 

I reckon there are affairs where both parties have it just as they want it, but I think they're in the minority. What I have issue with is when the depth or value of the relationship is undermined unfairly.

[MissBee]

I disagree because no matter how you cut it an A is a relationship. Many do want to progress beyond an A. I did and when he chose not to leave I did just what I told him I'd do. I ended it. It doesn't mean it wasn't a very deep and meaningful R. It was. I've also ended Rs with single men because either one or the other of us wanted to progress it and for some reason it didn't. It happens every day. Are you saying they aren't Rs because someone wanted it to progress it and it didn't?

 

For me, progression is but one part. Due to the nature, it's harder for me to even see if it needs to progress!

 

If I somehow bumped my head and decided to date some married guy who then divorces...I'd use the divorce to kind of start over or see where our stage is at and take it through normal stages. Example, I'd marry a guy after a 3 year normal relationship that didn't include A pressures. I would not immediately agree to marry my A partner if we'd been in an A for 3 years and he divorced on the third year marker. I wouldn't count it as we've been together for 3 years, as I would a single guy. I would probably not have to date him 3 more years, but for me, I'd certainly need to be with him in a "normal relationship" for at least a year to see if all is truly as it seemed while it was an A.

 

I'd have to treat it as us starting over and truly living out in the open and then seeing if indeed, now without those barriers, we're good enough to progress. That's just me.

Edited August 2, 2012 by MissBee

[stillwater]

I disagree because no matter how you cut it an A is a relationship. Many do want to progress beyond an A. I did and when he chose not to leave I did just what I told him I'd do. I ended it. It doesn't mean it wasn't a very deep and meaningful R. It was. I've also ended Rs with single men because either one or the other of us wanted to progress it and for some reason it didn't. It happens every day. Are you saying they aren't Rs because someone wanted it to progress it and it didn't?

 

It's not the lack of progression that makes it "less" than a full-blown relationship. It's more the fact that the person is already committed to someone else. Because of this other person, there were many limitations that didn't exist in any normal relationship I've been in. I couldn't call her up any old time and expect her to answer. We couldn't decide to go away for a weekend on a whim. If she wanted to stay the night, she couldn't without having some pre-planned excuse. There were certain events in her life that I could never be a part of because he'd be there. Etc.

[Summer Breeze]

For me, progression is but one part. Due to the nature, it's harder for me to even see if it needs to progress!

 

If I somehow bumped my head and decided to date some married guy who then divorces...I'd use the divorce to kind of start over or see where our stage is at and take it through normal stages. Example, I'd marry a guy after a 3 year normal relationship that didn't include A pressures. I would not immediately agree to marry my A partner if we'd been in an A for 3 years and he divorced on the third year marker. I wouldn't count it as we've been together for 3 years, as I would a single guy. I would probably not have to date him 3 more years, but for me, I'd certainly need to be with him in a "normal relationship" for at least a year to see if all is truly as it seemed while it was an A.

 

I'd have to treat it as us starting over and truly living out in the open and then seeing if indeed, now without those barriers, we're good enough to progress. That's just me.

 

I agree with you about much of that. I don't necessarily think it would have to be 3 years (I'm getting older and don't want to keel over before we get to the good stuff:)). But I do agree that turning from an A to beyond has it's own special set of problems.

 

The whole premise of the thread is for the delusion that an A sits in third date land being not normal for most APs. It has a progression. It's not the same progression as a R that is not an A but it has it's progression and it's good and bad. That is what I was trying to discuss.

 

I do agree with you though about the shift from A to nonA relationship. That is worthy of it's own thread!

[Spark1111]

I 've never had an affair, but I did have a very intense LDR once.

 

The unavailability, the limitations of time and distance was just over the top. Missing someone you cannot have access to all the time heightens the feelings, IMO.

 

The conversations and cards and emails take on an intensity of emotion that does not compare to someone you have access to day in and day out, anytime you want.

 

The progression of the relationship remains an unknown; it could vanish into thin air as one or the other partner decides it is not enough, too difficult, too many limitations.

 

For that reason, I believe I ALWAYS put my best "face" on when we did get to connect in person with each other, as did he. That, more than anything, to me, is the meaning behind a perpetual third date.

 

We didn't show our warts and wrinkles (though we admitted so much on a deep, and personal level) but without the responsibility of having to change or overcome or negotiate, so what?

 

The anticipation was sublime; the communication, soulful; the sex, off the charts, but since there could be no certainty of a future, we didn't place any real expectations on the relationship.

 

I'm not denigrating anyone's relationship. But even I knew long ago that most of that exquisite anticipation would go up in smoke if we had ever committed to a daily, 24/7 relationship.

[Silly_Girl]

It's not the lack of progression that makes it "less" than a full-blown relationship. It's more the fact that the person is already committed to someone else. Because of this other person, there were many limitations that didn't exist in any normal relationship I've been in. I couldn't call her up any old time and expect her to answer. We couldn't decide to go away for a weekend on a whim. If she wanted to stay the night, she couldn't without having some pre-planned excuse. There were certain events in her life that I could never be a part of because he'd be there. Etc.

 

Yes, I can see that would be a pigging nightmare. It wasn't really like that in my case, they led almost totally separate lives. I just know that would have driven me crazy.

[Silly_Girl]

I'm not denigrating anyone's relationship. But even I knew long ago that most of that exquisite anticipation would go up in smoke if we had ever committed to a daily, 24/7 relationship.

 

Exquisite anticipation.... I remember Dad coming back from working overseas and my mum not sleeping the night before and legging it up the platform in high heels to grab a hold of him when he got off the train. Never seen her move so far or so fast.

 

Thing is, there is that determination to make the time count if opportunity is limited for the APs but that doesn't mean that it's false. I had both affair and non-affair and it didn't go up in smoke once we weren't restricted, it got better/more fun in some ways and less exciting in others. We stopped staying up ALL night for example, and only stayed up half the night

[Summer Breeze]

It's not the lack of progression that makes it "less" than a full-blown relationship. It's more the fact that the person is already committed to someone else. Because of this other person, there were many limitations that didn't exist in any normal relationship I've been in. I couldn't call her up any old time and expect her to answer. We couldn't decide to go away for a weekend on a whim. If she wanted to stay the night, she couldn't without having some pre-planned excuse. There were certain events in her life that I could never be a part of because he'd be there. Etc.

 

Life has loads of restrictions. I used to go with a fellow who ended up working in Eastern Europe. He was an exec with an IT company and worked huge hours when he was there and had limited contact with anyone in the States. I spoke to him and saw him less than MM. So that means that wasn't a full blown R? The whole R thing isn't what this thread is about. We can debate that til the cows come home. What is an R? Everyone has a different opinion and there will never be agreement. This thread isn't here to discuss that. It's here to discuss what I've repeatedly written.

[Summer Breeze]

I 've never had an affair, but I did have a very intense LDR once.

 

The unavailability, the limitations of time and distance was just over the top. Missing someone you cannot have access to all the time heightens the feelings, IMO.

 

The conversations and cards and emails take on an intensity of emotion that does not compare to someone you have access to day in and day out, anytime you want.

 

The progression of the relationship remains an unknown; it could vanish into thin air as one or the other partner decides it is not enough, too difficult, too many limitations.

 

For that reason, I believe I ALWAYS put my best "face" on when we did get to connect in person with each other, as did he. That, more than anything, to me, is the meaning behind a perpetual third date.

 

We didn't show our warts and wrinkles (though we admitted so much on a deep, and personal level) but without the responsibility of having to change or overcome or negotiate, so what?

 

The anticipation was sublime; the communication, soulful; the sex, off the charts, but since there could be no certainty of a future, we didn't place any real expectations on the relationship.

 

I'm not denigrating anyone's relationship. But even I knew long ago that most of that exquisite anticipation would go up in smoke if we had ever committed to a daily, 24/7 relationship.

 

That's pretty much what I figured you meant. I still think it's not the reality for most. If you think there's not negotiating, overcoming, and changing in an A you're sadly mistaken. They may not be the things negotiated, overcome, and changed in a M but they happen all the time.

 

Of course you're denigrating 'anyone's' relationship. You're making assumptions and almost declaring you're right and 'anyone' is wrong. That's fine because it's what keeps talk going.

 

To the point of absence making everything so sublime and wonderful. If a WS is traveling for business often why is the M not full of the wonders of distance? I would imagine the answer to that is just like the answer to a LT LDR. It feels wonderful for a period of time and then it normally stinks. An A is no different. The first few months your description is probably apt. After that it's not. At least in my limited experience and in what I've read on this forum for a few years now anyway.

 

I also think that reading some of the posts in the whole of the forum the warts and all come out pretty quickly in most As. That's just my opinion from what I've been reading on LS for a while and what I've experienced and known of others IRL.

 

The bolded. Ok so how's this. My grandparents were M almost 60 years. They never were alone together before they M. They never lived together before they were M. They never had to show their warts and wrinkles or overcome anything. They loved each other though. They got M and I watched them all the while growing up and wanting to be just like them. Are you saying that since they never had to overcome or negotiate anything they didn't have a real R until they had surpassed the appropriate obstacles? So what, you say. You make it sound like if someone hasn't met your idea of a R then it is simply dismissed. Fair enough. We each have our own thoughts and we aren't all going to agree.

[stillwater]

Life has loads of restrictions. I used to go with a fellow who ended up working in Eastern Europe. He was an exec with an IT company and worked huge hours when he was there and had limited contact with anyone in the States. I spoke to him and saw him less than MM. So that means that wasn't a full blown R? The whole R thing isn't what this thread is about. We can debate that til the cows come home. What is an R? Everyone has a different opinion and there will never be agreement. This thread isn't here to discuss that. It's here to discuss what I've repeatedly written.

 

I knew this was going to be your response. Look, it's not just one aspect, it's the whole combination. In my case, it was the limitations I described above, in addition to: The sheer impossibility of progression without her making major life changes. The fact that we had to keep the relationship hidden from a lot of people. The fact that she was going home and sharing emotional and physical intimacy with someone else, to whatever extent (and the feelings of jealousy that created). The fact that at any second he could find out and she might put an end to it, or she might decide it wasn't worth the hassle and end it herself (and the feelings of insecurity that created). I could go on. Yes, you can draw parallels to any of those individual items in a normal relationship, but I have never been in (or heard of) a normal relationship that had ALL those aspects.

 

And now that I read back what I just wrote, God am I happy I'm not in that situation anymore.

 

Anyway, I apologize for the t/j, but it seemed a little unfair to ask me a question and then say you didn't want to talk about it anymore. I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree, and if your situation didn't have those aspects, then obviously our outlooks will be different. As for the original thread topic, I contributed to that earlier, and now that I look, you liked that post.

Edited August 2, 2012 by stillwater

[Summer Breeze]

I knew this was going to be your response. Look, it's not just one aspect, it's the whole combination. In my case, it was the limitations I described above, in addition to: The sheer impossibility of progression without her making major life changes. The fact that we had to keep the relationship hidden from a lot of people. The fact that she was going home and sharing emotional and physical intimacy with someone else, to whatever extent (and the feelings of jealousy that created). The fact that at any second he could find out and she might put an end to it, or she might decide it wasn't worth the hassle and end it herself (and the feelings of insecurity that created). I could go on. Yes, you can draw parallels to any of those individual items in a normal relationship, but I have never been in (or heard of) a normal relationship that had ALL those aspects.

 

And now that I read back what I just wrote, God am I happy I'm not in that situation anymore.

 

Anyway, I apologize for the t/j, but it seemed a little unfair to ask me a question and then say you didn't want to talk about it anymore. I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree, and if your situation didn't have those aspects, then obviously our outlooks will be different. As for the original thread topic, I contributed to that earlier, and now that I look, you liked that post.

 

Sorry I didn't realize I did that! Do you know something? As much as I love MM I'm glad I'm not in the A any longer too. I was one of Miss Bee's bonsai trees. We grew and I tried to shape and mold things for as long as I was still content and happy. When I wasn't I told him and I left. I do understand what you're saying but the focus is the la la land. I don't mind t/js at all. I did like that post. I do my best to see all sides. I might not agree with them but I try and see them. Sometimes I start some things or say some things just to get some discussion going. Thanks for that SW!