I want to keep track of MM

[veryhappy]

You need to check yourself for the crazy factor. The GPS unit sounds okay-ish, but the rest of your plans cross into crazy because you are not the official partner (and even then it's questionable).

 

Do you have anyone to talk to? Are you going to counseling? Would you be able to end it quietly if you knew the truth, or would it make you potentially lose it? You know yourself best. If this man makes you lose sense of reality and control over yourself, you'll be better off cutting your losses and ending it now. You are not getting enough from him at this point anyway, regardless of how many other women he has.

[MissBee]

I've been seeing MM for 4+ years and see certain patterns of emotional distancing and then coming back.

I've wondered if he's been seeing his ex-OW or has a new OW at times, or whether he just has a need to distance.

 

Due to my kids being home from college for the summer, MM and I have cut down a lot on getting together but I still wonder if he's seeing someone else. When I ask him, he withdraws further (I see less of him) even though he denies having anyone else.

Lately, we still go out on dates a couple of times a week, but don't get sexual as much.

 

I want to check for myself whether he's seeing someone else on the side, or not.

 

I bought a GPS tracking system and want to put it on his car soon. I have the distinct feeling he goes out without me and I want to know if he's seeing someone else, or just going to a bar on his own, or with guys. This system will give me some information.

 

I am tired of not knowing 'the truth'. Instead of hiring a PI to investigate for me, I ordered this GPS unit, and even ordered some disguises for myself, if I need to don some to see what MM is up to. I could, I guess, hire a rental car if I need to follow him into a bar to see who he is meeting up with.

 

I want to see what he is up to.

 

What do people on this board think?

 

I think feeling you need to do that is the first sign that there IS a problem.

 

To be honest, if you're dating a cheater, then what do you really need to know? He seems to have had an OW before you that you're worried he's seeing, he's cheating on his wife, and now you're trying to track him for the truth. Doesn't it all feel like too much to you?

 

Where do you see this relationship going? My motto is I'm not gonna waste my time and energy to invest in a dead-end...so if you have no desire for him to live an honest life and be with you in the open (it's been 4 years)...expect that he will do as he pleases and see other women as well. I suppose you can seek "monogamy" of a MM...it all seems precarious as to how you can enforce this as his OW....but hey.

 

I don't really see anyway to work out your issues, call him out on having other OW and make things work while it is remaining an A. He may very well flip out on you and tell you that you knew what you were getting into so why complain. I think when you date a man with a history of cheating, and you're in an affair with him, you HAVE to take things with a grain of salt and it seems oxymoronic to GPS track him and demand his fidelity to you in the context of the relationship. If you find out he has another OW, then what? Will you leave him? Why not just leave him as of now since he is emotionally distant and making you insecure anyway?

Edited August 1, 2012 by MissBee

[MissBee]

Perhaps I should end it first. And not bother spying on him?

 

I second this plan.

 

I've always said that just the feeling like I need to spy on my partner is the first sign of a problem. The problem starts when you feel the withdrawal, when you feel shut out, when you feel there is no more openness. Those are the problems. Finding evidence of cheating is simply sealing the deal on the problem. In the case of a regular relationship, I'd be frank with him that I'm feeling this way and MAYBE I'd resort to such stealth methods (although I probably still wouldn't, as if you're doing nothing to make me feel better...what's the point of finding out you're cheating...it still amounts to the SAME thing).

 

But if I'm in an A...I'd even have less tolerance, time and energy to invest in a a man who's making me feel insecure and who I feel is a liar and I have to spy on. What's the reward in that? I'd just pack up my troubles and keep it pushing.

[nofool4u]

A scorned OW is no different than a bitter BW.

 

Sure they are different. The BW has a right to be bitter.

[haribogumsnickers]

Leelou, I loved you in The Fifth Element.

[Leelou]

Why did he go back with her? That would have been the perfect time to break up with her and start a life with you.

I didn't know him at the time. He had a D-Day with his xOW and his W kicked him out and found another man.

 

He continued to see xOW on the side, but didn't move in with her... after a year or so he and his wife agreed to try again.

 

It wasn't too honest of him because he was still seeing the SAME OW all the while. OW wanted commitment from him and he would not, so they split up.

[Leelou]

A scorned OW is no different than a bitter BW.

Who's scorned?! He still wants me. For now, anyway.

 

It doesn't matter even if he didn't want me.

 

I have options.

[Fitz]

I am tired of not knowing 'the truth'.

 

LOL-ing about your need for truth

[Leelou]

There is an old saying: If you suspect cheating there is a 90% chance there is cheating.

 

Why don't you ask him?

Yes, I did ask him. He simply replied "No, no one else" and then said that whenever we don't see each other enough, I think there may be someone else...

 

That may be true (when we don't see each other a lot), however it doesn't mean the other part is invalid (that he's not looking at someone else).

 

I just don't know.

 

Thought I'd find an Objective Answer (GPS tracking device would show if he was meeting up with someone else), instead of bug him for an answer he may be unwilling to give.

[Leelou]

LOL-ing about your need for truth

 

 

Most people would prefer to know the truth.

 

But LOL away, Fitz.

[Leelou]

Options???

 

Like buying a GPS tracker, disguise to follow MM, and considering hiring a PI?

 

Options?

 

Like being able to date single available men with no drama?

 

Seriously. You are fooling yourself. Leave this clown and find a real man.

ha ha, I know.

 

This is the tail-end of an era/chapter in my life.

[SoMovinOn]

I just read through all the responses, assuming someone else would have already pointed this out, but, no one has...

 

I'm not sure where you live, but, in all probability, what you want to do (put the GPS tracker in his car) is highly *illegal*. You might be potentially opening yourself up for some serious legal trouble, even jail time. Is it worth the risk to you?

[Leelou]

You need to check yourself for the crazy factor. The GPS unit sounds okay-ish, but the rest of your plans cross into crazy because you are not the official partner (and even then it's questionable).

 

Do you have anyone to talk to? Are you going to counseling? Would you be able to end it quietly if you knew the truth, or would it make you potentially lose it? You know yourself best. If this man makes you lose sense of reality and control over yourself, you'll be better off cutting your losses and ending it now. You are not getting enough from him at this point anyway, regardless of how many other women he has.

It's a little crazy, wanting to find out.

 

I don't wish to be 'the official partner'.

 

Yes, I have someone to talk to.

At the moment, no counseling. Have been before.

 

Yes, of course I can end it quietly. I have already done that twice before with MM. Once for ten months. I never would tell his wife on him. I am just as guilty as he is, who am I to get HIM into trouble?!

 

I guess I'm not 'getting enough' anymore... I wanted what we had and when Time Together gets reduced it feels like 'not enough' (although my kids are home so Time Together getting reduced is also due to that).

 

If it's over, it's over. I'm no bunny boiler

[Leelou]

I am certain you deserve better.

 

Thank you.

[Leelou]

I second this plan.

 

I've always said that just the feeling like I need to spy on my partner is the first sign of a problem. The problem starts when you feel the withdrawal, when you feel shut out, when you feel there is no more openness. Those are the problems. Finding evidence of cheating is simply sealing the deal on the problem. In the case of a regular relationship, I'd be frank with him that I'm feeling this way and MAYBE I'd resort to such stealth methods (although I probably still wouldn't, as if you're doing nothing to make me feel better...what's the point of finding out you're cheating...it still amounts to the SAME thing).

 

But if I'm in an A...I'd even have less tolerance, time and energy to invest in a a man who's making me feel insecure and who I feel is a liar and I have to spy on. What's the reward in that? I'd just pack up my troubles and keep it pushing.

Thank you Miss Bee, I just saw both your posts. Makes sense to me.

[dreamingoftigers]

Weren't you a BS before?

 

Why would you go down this dark road?

[Fitz]

Most people would prefer to know the truth.

 

But LOL away, Fitz.

 

 

Let's be clear here: you are not interested in the truth.

 

You are interested in having control.

 

And if peace of mind is what you seek, then the difference between the two has to be well understood.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Fitz

[Leelou]

Weren't you a BS before?

 

Why would you go down this dark road?

Yes.

 

I chose this road a few years ago. It took me out of hell.

 

I've walked a long way since.

 

Let's be clear here: you are not interested in the truth.

 

You are interested in having control.

 

The difference between the two should be understood.

I suppose that's got something to do with it -- I felt I had NO control before, esp. when lied to. But with KNOWING where I stand, when the truth comes out, I feel I can rightly choose, and not be controlled.

Gaslighting is de-stabilizing. I was gaslighted. So now I am sensitive to being lied to.

Control comes hand- in- hand with knowing what's going on. Yes. I get it.

 

PS: I'm not trying to control the MM by finding out the Truth - I would simply exit the relationship, not control him in any way. I would REMOVE myself from him.

I don't want to control him.

I want to control my own life.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Leelou

[veryhappy]

Great to hear you are considering canceling your plans. Now check if you can still get a refund for the stuff you got...

 

If you see him a couple of times a week, I don't think it's a problem of how muh you see him. You just don't trust what he's saying.

[frozensprouts]

OP,

it sounds like your feelings for this guy may be causing you to make some really "crazy" choices...is that really who you are and who you want to be?

[Leelou]

OP,

it sounds like your feelings for this guy may be causing you to make some really "crazy" choices...is that really who you are and who you want to be?

I feel okay today, not driven to find out. I have read everyone's comment and know that spying is not good for ME.

 

If one acts on a fleeting obsessive feeling, one 'grows' it. I knew it was 'crazy' when I ordered the GPS which is why I did it with 1 day delivery, because I knew I'd change my mind.

I've never spied on MM before, so why start now, at the end? It's not worth it.

 

WWIU wrote, " I feel bad for you because this is what your life has resorted to..Wanting to spy on him. On a guy who is showing you in action that you aren't much to him."

 

Yes. This spoke to me. Just not worth it.

[skywriter]

Leelou,

 

I understand the statement about feeling sad that this is what your life has resorted to, however I understand why you feel the need to do this.

 

The feeling of being gaslighted is emotional cruelty.

 

I say, if doing this is a means to an end of a deadend relationship, then I'd definitly do it.

 

You can weigh pros and cons all day.

 

I stopped my A for just that reason. I wasn't the only OW. I had no solid proof, just a gnawing gut. Well, I take tht back, I did have a girlfriend that he knew as well. She informed me that he was calling, texting, and speaking inapporpriatly with her.

 

I also suspected another girlfriend of being involved with him, from watching him around her and how they interacted, (lots of flirting and touching).

[Leelou]

Leelou,

 

I understand the statement about feeling sad that this is what your life has resorted to, however I understand why you feel the need to do this.

 

The feeling of being gaslighted is emotional cruelty.

 

I say, if doing this is a means to an end of a deadend relationship, then I'd definitly do it.

 

You can weigh pros and cons all day.

 

I stopped my A for just that reason. I wasn't the only OW. I had no solid proof, just a gnawing gut. Well, I take tht back, I did have a girlfriend that he knew as well. She informed me that he was calling, texting, and speaking inapporpriatly with her.

 

I also suspected another girlfriend of being involved with him, from watching him around her and how they interacted, (lots of flirting and touching).

Thank you for understanding the need to KNOW for sure, to have "solid proof" instead of wondering back and forth, back and forth. I know when I end it, he's going to argue that he never did anything. Then I can't 'prove' anything back to him. He's going to try convince me none of it is true.

 

It's what we allow, in the end.

 

It's going to be tough. But relying on *an end result* (like GPS tracking, or in your case - confirmation from a third source of your MM attempting to flirt and pick up your friend) only removes the responsibility of Making A Decision based on the Whole picture, instead of just one tiny aspect of the affair or MM.

All the reasons for ending it are there, yet it sometimes feels hard to end it, until we feel ready to.

 

Yes, having proof that he may be seeing someone else would make it easier for me to say he's just lying scum, can't be really that interested in me, is using me, or did enjoy me but now is bored and subsidizing the R with new ow ... whatever.

Too much thinking.

 

Enough.

 

Just end it.

 

It's wrong anyway. Every which way.

The fact that I could *prove* he is lying (both to him and to myself, so could feel justified) is by using a GPS, which would show how he lies to me, but do I actually need new updated info on him lying to me recently? As other posters have pointed out, a serial cheating MM IS nothing but a liar.

 

I swear all the messing around that people do in affairs just feeds the fire. Time to end it.

[canuckprincess]

I've been seeing MM for 4+ years and see certain patterns of emotional distancing and then coming back.

I've wondered if he's been seeing his ex-OW or has a new OW at times, or whether he just has a need to distance.

 

Due to my kids being home from college for the summer, MM and I have cut down a lot on getting together but I still wonder if he's seeing someone else. When I ask him, he withdraws further (I see less of him) even though he denies having anyone else.

Lately, we still go out on dates a couple of times a week, but don't get sexual as much.

 

I want to check for myself whether he's seeing someone else on the side, or not.

 

I bought a GPS tracking system and want to put it on his car soon. I have the distinct feeling he goes out without me and I want to know if he's seeing someone else, or just going to a bar on his own, or with guys. This system will give me some information.

 

I am tired of not knowing 'the truth'. Instead of hiring a PI to investigate for me, I ordered this GPS unit, and even ordered some disguises for myself, if I need to don some to see what MM is up to. I could, I guess, hire a rental car if I need to follow him into a bar to see who he is meeting up with.

 

I want to see what he is up to.

 

What do people on this board think?

 

 

I must agree you can't play warden, that's what the bs does not the ap. I would never go to that existent for any man whether it was my xh or my mm. If you behave like most bs do it will be a complete turn off for him. Remember he shares more with you then his wife they always do. So have a little faith in yourself. Dont behave like a wife or he will have no choice then to treat you like a wife which means lying and cheating.Just tell him if he cheats on you your done, be strong.

[skywriter]

(((Leelou))),

 

I am so sorry for how you must be feeling. I realise, that those not ever having been an other, it should be obvious...

 

What did you expect?

 

I was ignorant to A dynamics it was like, hold my hand and lead me along....

 

When you finally realise , "oh my, I'm one of possibly others." That feeling in your stomach is so raw and utter disgust at yourself for having been so gullible.... and it stings, and lingers everytime you think of him, you and him, something he said or said he had to do. It just plays and repeats.

 

I have to say though, we are often armed with a natural alarm, inborn with an excellent receptor. We just have to choose not to ignore it.

Edited August 2, 2012 by skywriter