I want to keep track of MM

[sad puppy]

Don't change your number, forget that, it's a huge hassle for you. And don't text him or whatever. Just ice him out. You sound like you've made good progress lately, mentally and emotionally, you are in a stronger place. Use it as your fuel, don't disrupt your good mojo, keep going, do not break NC. It will set you back, trust me.

 

Ice him, girl. Retain your power, and commit to a healthier, happier place in your life. It's waiting for you. Let him twist in the wind. If you break NC, he's got you and will continue to hurt you emotionally. Don't give him that power! You're doing great!

[Got it]

I have not texted/called/responded to him since Tuesday (when I was supposed to have seen him but I chose not to, since I felt weird about the need to GPS him at the time). Last night at 10pm he called and left a terse voicemail, and this morning he tentatively tried a "Good Morning" phish text message which I ignored.

He later, around 7pm, texted me, "I take it you're not speaking to me. I've called and text you"

 

Tomorrow he returns from his visit with family.

He will make a bee line to get ahold of me, but I will avoid him. This has been his tactic in the past, and honestly, I understand the power of ignoring someone, thanks to him.

I just don't see the point in attempting a conversation with him when there is NO way he'd be truthful, plus, I am beyond this. I am ready to end it.

 

I do not want to be all open and vulnerable with him, because there is no way he will be truthful and open with me, and I will just end up giving HIM information to satisfy him, and be left without any input.

 

The fact that I had ordered a GPS and was quite ready to use it on him is indicative enough of how I already know in my heart what he is up to. I have listened to what the posters have told me. I am listening to what is common sense.

 

I just don't want him to persevere in coming after me again. He has in the past.

 

I want to ignore him completely, so he can get a taste of his own medicine (his wife apparently complains that he doesn't SAY anything) and be met with silence when his head is full of questions.

 

I don't want to answer his questions, because he has never answered ours (mine, his wife's, his xOW) when it so suits him.

I also don't want to answer his questions, because that will just give him Information about how to best tackle my objections. Best I keep quiet and he has no power to reel me back in.

 

This time I won't be heartbroken, because my eyes are wide open.

 

I think this is very insightful. I agree, the day I need a GPS on someone, whether or not anything is actually going on, the day I need to leave the relationship. It isn't a healthy relationship and life is too short to have to police another human being.

[sad puppy]

Last fall, I was in your same space, wanting to end my relationship but still tethered emotionally, a poster here, Barrsitter, came along and helped me. She advised channeling my inner Madea. You know who that is, strong, black woman who just doesn't take sh&$ from anyone! Well, let me tell you, whenever we needed help, we would bolster each other by reminding each other of our inner Madea.

 

Go watch Madea on YouTube, I think there's even a video of her on dating. Trust me, it will help! You get in touch with your Madea, and you will never look at that cheater the same way! Do it, you'll see. Once you claim your strong, black woman inside of you, that cheater is toast!

[Leelou]

I just got another phishing "Good Morning" text from MM. He must be wondering what's up, and despite his better feelings, still trying to communicate with me (tho he clearly 'got' that I was not speaking to him).

 

I'm busy watching Madea, LOL!

[Leelou]

I am figuring out a prepared response if forced to 'explain' to MM - something along the lines of, "It's over. You know the reasons WHY"

 

Because I don't want to get into the reasons, and because he will avoid responsibility for any action, and will lie to confuse me and win me back. Also, if I state 'you know the reasons why' then the natural response to that is for a person to begin to mentally go through The Reasons Why... and that will include ALL the good reasons he wouldn't openly discuss with me.

 

Any ideas as to what a good rehearsed phrase could be? I don't want to explain my thinking; it's a lost cause.

This is a man who is very practiced in giving no information out, and getting everything explained from a woman, thus he gets closure, and she gets nothing but denials and gaslighting. I refuse to engage.

Thoughts?

[jwi71]

I am figuring out a prepared response if forced to 'explain' to MM - something along the lines of, "It's over. You know the reasons WHY"

 

Because I don't want to get into the reasons, and because he will avoid responsibility for any action, and will lie to confuse me and win me back. Also, if I state 'you know the reasons why' then the natural response to that is for a person to begin to mentally go through The Reasons Why... and that will include ALL the good reasons he wouldn't openly discuss with me.

 

Any ideas as to what a good rehearsed phrase could be? I don't want to explain my thinking; it's a lost cause.

This is a man who is very practiced in giving no information out, and getting everything explained from a woman, thus he gets closure, and she gets nothing but denials and gaslighting. I refuse to engage.

Thoughts?

 

If the goal is to get him out of your life ASAP...then tell his W.

 

However, you don't want to - which is thoughtful of you putting her needs above your own. Not being snarky, pointing out that you ARE placing her needs in front of your own. Which is important. Stay with me a bit here...

 

The second way is to threaten it. But as you know, doing so leads to "what if he does" and not following through weakens you further.

 

Leading us back to...WHO is more important here?

 

You? The BS? Him?

 

Understanding WHO you are trying to protect is important - as it more or less decides the path to be taken.

 

If you value YOURSELF the most...you tell the W. I promise he'll disappear. Likely rather quickly.

 

If you value HIM the most...you "let him down" easy. Takes longer but he'll exit (eventually) and more or less unscathed. How? Simple...just be bored with him...roll your eyes, sigh, no sex...basically, make the time he is with you bad for him. It'll be no fun for you as well but the goal is for HIM to exit unscathed right? Bonus points as it keeps the BS "unhurt" as well.

 

If you value the BS the most...do the above.

 

So wahts the real goal here?

 

It isn't SIMPLY to end the A...its far more nuanced than that....

[goodthingscome]

Right on.

 

Leelou, if you can't accept that, look at it this way. You already know he is cheating. He's been cheating on you for 4 years by being married.

 

 

I totally agree with the first part of this post, but......

I take offense to the last comment.

It's impossible for a "married" person to cheat on an affair partner. Sorry, but marriage trumps affairs every time....... just saying

[Leelou]

If you value YOURSELF the most...you tell the W. I promise he'll disappear. Likely rather quickly.

His last OW told his wife on him (her plan was so she could get MM all to herself) and his wife responded by kicking him out of their house for a year and a half, and getting herself a new man. MM continued to see the OW on the sly, all the while biding his time with his wife until he won her back and got his wife to drop her new-found love for the father of her children!

He moved back home and continued with his OW on and off until OW dropped him and moved on to a new single man.

He found me. This was over four years ago. xOW recently texted MM to say she wanted to sex him; that her bf didn't satisfy her sexually like he did (yeah, he told me this a few months ago).

 

Anyway, he is certainly risking his M, but he will always have an OW on the side; he needs the emotional distance in his M.

I don't know how his wife puts up with him. I really don't. Unless of course, she has her own R going on the side (LOL Someone should GPS them both and rat them out to each other!)

 

If you value HIM the most...you "let him down" easy. Takes longer but he'll exit (eventually) and more or less unscathed. How? Simple...just be bored with him...roll your eyes, sigh, no sex...basically, make the time he is with you bad for him. It'll be no fun for you as well but the goal is for HIM to exit unscathed right? Bonus points as it keeps the BS "unhurt" as well.

 

If you value the BS the most...do the above.

 

So wahts the real goal here?

 

It isn't SIMPLY to end the A...its far more nuanced than that....

Their kids are grown with one child left in the house, still in HS. He is a very attentive father, more so than any man I have seen, and I don't want to hurt him and his child by telling his W on him and having her kick him out again. What for?

 

Doubtless, when he sees I am not budging in resolve, he will just go out and get a new woman, or continue with his xOW, or likely, he already has started doing one or the other, which is why I sensed his distancing these past several weeks.

 

But disregarding whether he is with some other woman or not - my question is how to handle his questions. My goal is not to weaken myself by telling him anything (he would just try to convince me otherwise), and my goal is not to get back with him.

I just don't want to get any further hurt by him than I have already, in the past.

 

He is a user, a taker, a liar, and a cheat. But he also is charming, knows what he wants, and goes after what he wants. I can't expect him to leave me alone, respectfully, immediately - he is going to want answers (this is something he should NOT get because he NEVER gives any answers to anyone!)

 

How do you deal with a persistent person who is adament on getting his questions answered? I feel I will be weakened again if I deal with him on his terms and play his game of answering, truthfully, all of his questions while he in return lies, covers up his actions, gaslights, and then walks away. I just don't want to interact.

 

Do you still think the best answer is to tell his wife?

Do you say that so that his life (and his family) is thrown into a tailspin and he has too much stress going on in his life to bother me?

I just don't think it's the right way to go about ending this.

 

In a way, his wife, after twenty years, knows he is a serial cheater. She obviously chooses to trust him and stay with him.

I have no right to tell on him and get him into trouble, and disturb the harmony and living conditions of that entire family.

Likely he is cheating on both his wife, and me, with his ex or another woman, and he will always seek a woman on the side.. so, why bother to expose him now for the little benefit it will give me (to get rid of him), when there is too much unnecessary drama.

 

I see the best thing is for me to quietly withdraw from his life. He will move onto the next woman, and one day when SHE (new OW) is sick and tired of him, SHE may tell his bs on him, by which time the last child will be grown and out the house.

 

Why choose now, as a time to expose him? It's not kind for him, his child, or his family.

I need to just quietly leave.

Will he let me?

[truthbetold]

His last OW told his wife on him (her plan was so she could get MM all to herself) and his wife responded by kicking him out of their house for a year and a half, and getting herself a new man. MM continued to see the OW on the sly, all the while biding his time with his wife until he won her back and got his wife to drop her new-found love for the father of her children!

He moved back home and continued with his OW on and off until OW dropped him and moved on to a new single man.

He found me. This was over four years ago. xOW recently texted MM to say she wanted to sex him; that her bf didn't satisfy her sexually like he did (yeah, he told me this a few months ago).

 

Anyway, he is certainly risking his M, but he will always have an OW on the side; he needs the emotional distance in his M.

I don't know how his wife puts up with him. I really don't. Unless of course, she has her own R going on the side (LOL Someone should GPS them both and rat them out to each other!)

 

 

Their kids are grown with one child left in the house, still in HS. He is a very attentive father, more so than any man I have seen, and I don't want to hurt him and his child by telling his W on him and having her kick him out again. What for?

 

Doubtless, when he sees I am not budging in resolve, he will just go out and get a new woman, or continue with his xOW, or likely, he already has started doing one or the other, which is why I sensed his distancing these past several weeks.

 

But disregarding whether he is with some other woman or not - my question is how to handle his questions. My goal is not to weaken myself by telling him anything (he would just try to convince me otherwise), and my goal is not to get back with him.

I just don't want to get any further hurt by him than I have already, in the past.

 

He is a user, a taker, a liar, and a cheat. But he also is charming, knows what he wants, and goes after what he wants. I can't expect him to leave me alone, respectfully, immediately - he is going to want answers (this is something he should NOT get because he NEVER gives any answers to anyone!)

 

How do you deal with a persistent person who is adament on getting his questions answered? I feel I will be weakened again if I deal with him on his terms and play his game of answering, truthfully, all of his questions while he in return lies, covers up his actions, gaslights, and then walks away. I just don't want to interact.

 

Do you still think the best answer is to tell his wife?

Do you say that so that his life (and his family) is thrown into a tailspin and he has too much stress going on in his life to bother me?

I just don't think it's the right way to go about ending this.

 

In a way, his wife, after twenty years, knows he is a serial cheater. She obviously chooses to trust him and stay with him.

I have no right to tell on him and get him into trouble, and disturb the harmony and living conditions of that entire family.

Likely he is cheating on both his wife, and me, with his ex or another woman, and he will always seek a woman on the side.. so, why bother to expose him now for the little benefit it will give me (to get rid of him), when there is too much unnecessary drama.

 

I see the best thing is for me to quietly withdraw from his life. He will move onto the next woman, and one day when SHE (new OW) is sick and tired of him, SHE may tell his bs on him, by which time the last child will be grown and out the house.

 

Why choose now, as a time to expose him? It's not kind for him, his child, or his family.

I need to just quietly leave.

Will he let me?

 

Whoa! Will he LET you??? really???

 

YOU do have choices here you know. YOU can't let anyone suck you back into anything YOU CHOOSE not to have in your life. If you don't invite drama, it won't follow you around.

 

You end it by saying you're done. End of story, there's nothing else to say. He's a serial cheater who respects no one. Someone like that doesn't deserve a respecful ending. If you can't just say "I'm DONE" , then I guess a part of you still needs the drama for some reason. I'm done followed by silence is all he needs to know. If he tries to badger, then you tell him if he doesn't leave you alone you'll condsider it harrassment and will follow through as needed.

 

Gah, guys like him make my skin crawl and I've known a few. You shouldn't be flattered or feel sorry o want to let him down easy. You should be if you're really done with him.

[Got it]

I would limit any response as it isn't up for debate or discussion and this will include any threats. The only threat I would tell him is that his communications towards you are unwanted and if he continues you will file a restraining order against him. Don't contact me again.

[veryhappy]

Too much drama if you tell the wife. It's your choice, and if you have to and want to you can. You seem to not be interested in that, so why even consider it?

 

Whatever you tell him it needs to not be open ended. No explanations, no further questions. Just repeat "I'm done. Leave me alone." I think saying "I'm done." is stronger than "It's over" and makes it about you believing it's over, rather than the affair, which he could argue against. If he becomes a nuisance, you can pull out the "leave me alone or I'll tell your wife" card, but be prepared to follow up on the threat at that point.

 

I'm so happy to see you moved mentally from the place you were a few days ago.

[Athena]

restraining orders are a little too strong

[Got it]

Why? if the goal is to get someone to stop contacting you letting them what legal action one will take usually does the trick.

[Leelou]

I wouldn't need a restraining order, as MM is not in the least bit dangerous, and I wouldn't think it's right to bring in police to settle a personal dispute where no violence or threats were made!

 

MM texted again this morning, "Hi" and I wrote "Hi" and "You're back?" and he said "yes late last night. Why have you not been answering my texts these past few days?" So I ignored him. He left a voicemail saying he wouldn't call me again, until I call him.

 

Funny how a MM has dignity and pride and won't send repeated messages... he must sense what's up.

 

Anyway, I wasn't feeling too great, but one day at a time!

 

Do I have to say the words, "I'm done" if he never contacts me again? I suppose not, hey?

He catches on quick.

 

On the other hand, I did wonder briefly what he was up to tonight. Oh well. Time is all I need to recover.

[whichwayisup]

Next time he texts and says something like "I get the feeling I've been dumped" or something hinting along those lines, DO text back and say, " yes, you're correct and it's for the best..Especially for me. Please don't contact me again, I need to heal and can't hear from you anymore. Thanks."

[Leelou]

Are you done?

 

If you are done, then tell him, short and not so sweet.

 

If you aren't done, then don't do it, because if you don't mean it, it will just start a cycle of back and forth.

 

Do you know what NC is and what purpose it serves?

 

A good place to read up on NC is the website, baggage reclaim. You might also find other info there that might help you.

Thanks, I will do that- go read up on NC, I've actually been wondering what good it does, and if it is THE ONLY WAY..!

 

Yes, I'm done.

I don't want the A. I don't want the MM. I don't want him. I'm done.

[sad puppy]

Very good, Leelou, you're making solid progress. Yes, baggage reclaim is a great site, very empowering. You're shifting in your attitude. Once you make up your mind, it is actually way easier than you would think. Really! Once you distance yourself from their drama and sweet words, with a firm, clear head, you shall see, it's easier than you think.

[Leelou]

 

A good place to read up on NC is the website, baggage reclaim. You might also find other info there that might help you.

I bought the No Contact e-book from this site, and it has been very good to read!

 

MM is bringing out the big guns today -- texted he misses me, 3 hrs later no reply from me, then he texted he loves me, still no reply from me..

 

Is this normal stuff for them to reel u back in?

[sad puppy]

Yes, of course that is their typical behavior as the woman is their ego feed. Drop him like a rock. Retain your power. Screw him. Send the message loud and clear - you are not be trifled with and if he wants to stay married, so be it. Stay married, bucko. But he can't have you!

[2sunny]

I bought the No Contact e-book from this site, and it has been very good to read!

 

MM is bringing out the big guns today -- texted he misses me, 3 hrs later no reply from me, then he texted he loves me, still no reply from me..

 

Is this normal stuff for them to reel u back in?

 

Yes - and if you don't respond he may likely send you "some emergency" to get you all worked up enough to have you respond. I've seen men and women say they're in the emergency room just to get an ego feed response.

 

Don't fall for his drama!

 

You're doing great! Stay strong!!!

[2sure]

This is what Serial Cheaters DO.

They are serial cheaters more because they like the full game of it...not because they require so much variety. They need continual new validation. If you reject him, he will go after you more because your validation of him will be new again. If you continue to validate him, it becomes worthless because it's a given...so he seeks out new. It's not that he is bored...he is a bottomless pit.

 

So yeah, of course he is lying and cheating. Don't even pretend he isn't.

And he will turn on all his charm and lies for you now.

 

What works? Make every communication from you be negative. If you ignore him, he will always reappear. But if he always receives negative Responses from you that do not validate him..he will go away. Negative as in " You just seem to be looking so much older so suddenly, I think it's all just too much for you." Trust me...he won't keep coming around to hear that.

 

Don't assume his wife should know by now.

[Leelou]

This is what Serial Cheaters DO.

They are serial cheaters more because they like the full game of it...not because they require so much variety. They need continual new validation.

This is VERY helpful, thank you.

If you reject him, he will go after you more because your validation of him will be new again. If you continue to validate him, it becomes worthless because it's a given...so he seeks out new. It's not that he is bored...he is a bottomless pit.

yes, in retrospect, this is what happened after we broke up twice before he'd come after me, then after several months his interest would peter out slowly to less and less time, effort, etc.. "a bottomless pit" -makes sense!

 

What works? Make every communication from you be negative. If you ignore him, he will always reappear. But if he always receives negative Responses from you that do not validate him..he will go away. Negative as in " You just seem to be looking so much older so suddenly, I think it's all just too much for you." Trust me...he won't keep coming around to hear that.

I'm lol'ing to this smart advice! Ha ha.. I don't think he would be able to take it. ha ha ha. Oh my gosh, I am almost daring myself to implement this technique just out of curiosity and a lil Psych Research Study of my own. Edited August 9, 2012 by Leelou

[2sure]

Lol back. It was easy for me , I was divorcing my serial cheater. But really, its what works. I read all of his emails...they can't stand up to the criticism.

[Leelou]

Be strong and good luck keep us posted on the break up. I wish I was as strong as ow.

I officially ended it today, as opposed to just ignoring him with NC.

 

You don't have to go into great amounts of details either, make your point and tell him that it's best for you that the A ends. Make it about YOU not him. Tell him to please respect your wishes and to back off/leave you alone so you can heal.

I used this advice, thanks. I have not seen him since I first posted here. I texted him. I kept it about ME, not him. I made my point about it being best for me that the A ends, and I told him to leave me alone so that I can heal.

 

He replied that he was shocked and devastated and asked me not to throw us away. Please.

 

I wrote back to confirm this was the end, and I am done.

 

And that is that. Now I have to focus on fixing myself.

I hate that I have gone against my moral core, but I did, and now I am not sure how to go about fitting in what I've done with who I thought I was inside. It's messed up.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Leelou

[woinlove]

I officially ended it today, as opposed to just ignoring him with NC.

 

 

I used this advice, thanks. I have not seen him since I first posted here. I texted him. I kept it about ME, not him. I made my point about it being best for me that the A ends, and I told him to leave me alone so that I can heal.

 

He replied that he was shocked and devastated and asked me not to throw us away. Please.

 

I wrote back to confirm this was the end, and I am done.

 

And that is that. Now I have to focus on fixing myself.

I hate that I have gone against my moral core, but I did, and now I am not sure how to go about fitting in what I've done with who I thought I was inside. It's messed up.

 

Good for you, Leelou. What you write here, about how you feel about yourself, gives context to your other threads on character. You can come out of this stronger, knowing yourself better, and confident that you will make better decisions in the future. You've already taken important steps along the path, by ending things and recognizing what you need to work on, to understand better. Stay strong and good luck to you.