Is my mother narcissistic or is it just me?

[Radu]

All i can think is ... 'sick f*cks'.

 

They actually believe that the kid is theirs.

 

I remember reading that BPD's love their kids generally untill they start to develop independent personalities of them, untill they get into their teens, i think they just view her as a blank slate they can write ... NEED to write.

[freestyle]

My Dad tried making some of his "jokes" to her when she was an infant.

 

He's always thrown me under the bus to others unless he can brag about me in a way that he can take credit for.

 

I nipped it right away.

 

It's a big reason for supervised visits, but there are more reasons as well.

 

He's already been pushing for her to be babysat at their house. No way.

When she was in foster care they did put in for custody of her. I allowed that in preference to having her potentially remain in foster care if SS was going to rule against us. (I'll get into reasons why but only if anyone truly believes it's

relevant and/or hasn't read some of my other posts).

 

After social services cleared my husband and I (as well as putting ongoing terms for him) my patents still kept their application for custody in. I made it very clear that I would come up with the capital to continue with the trial even if I had to involve my other family. (I also would have quit school and panhandled, I would've done anything for my kid )

 

They dropped it after that, it would have cost at least $30,000 and they had no grounds to challenge our guardianship.

 

I refuse to have them run over my parenting efforts whatsoever.

As far as I am concerned they can play a very restricted role in her life. They can give her presents and tell her that she's pretty and boost her self-esteem etc. If I ever hear the words "spoiled brat" "lazy" "fat" or "shut-up" they will become my child's first example of how not to tolerate abuse. They will vanish like they vanished me for years. I have no guilt or problem with that. I have had years of experience knowing that if they get the smallest increment of an inch, soon we will have travelled six time zones.

'

 

Actually I do recall the foster care situation, so no need to explain it to me.

I've read enough of your posts over the past couple of years to grasp what your situation is.

I'm very happy you've been reunited with her---she's so adorable, from what I can see in your avatar. There's a sparkle of intelligence in her eyes, so I expect she's going to take after you.

 

And she's very lucky to have a mother who will protect her emotionally.

You go, girl.

[dreamingoftigers]

I'm pretty sensitive to the teenage things. Always have been.

 

I wonder what I would have been like as a parent without EMDR.

 

I'm not sure I could've seen the damage I would have been doing.

 

And yes, my father seems to believe that whatever he can buy or provide for SHOULD be his.

[freestyle]

All i can think is ... 'sick f*cks'.

 

They actually believe that the kid is theirs.

 

I remember reading that BPD's love their kids generally untill they start to develop independent personalities of them, untill they get into their teens, i think they just view her as a blank slate they can write ... NEED to write.

 

Agreed--I've read the same thing about BPD's. I think it applies to NPDs as well--

 

No matter what our age, the rest of us are merely props on their stage, to prop up their self-aggrandizement. If we fail to mirror the false self that they wish to present to the world, if we become a threat to their facade, their charade---we will be abused & belittled, coerced, or intimidated, until we play our part as expected.

[dreamingoftigers]

'

 

Actually I do recall the foster care situation, so no need to explain it to me.

I've read enough of your posts over the past couple of years to grasp what your situation is.

I'm very happy you've been reunited with her---she's so adorable, from what I can see in your avatar. There's a sparkle of intelligence in her eyes, so I expect she's going to take after you.

 

And she's very lucky to have a mother who will protect her emotionally.

You go, girl.

 

Thank you,

 

She is a bright little charming girl

Quite often she catches me by surprise.

 

She seems to have a mix of both of us, she definitely looks just like him. Often people are surprised she looks like him but is a cute little-girl version of his look. It's hard to envision if you haven't seen the two.

 

Her vocabulary is just, wow!

 

I can't wait to hear her read. I love how she is so determined to do so much too.

 

Agreed--I've read the same thing about BPD's. I think it applies to NPDs as well--

 

No matter what our age, the rest of us are merely props on their stage, to prop up their self-aggrandizement. If we fail to mirror the false self that they wish to present to the world, if we become a threat to their facade, their charade---we will be abused & belittled, coerced, or intimidated, until we play our part as expected.

 

As someone who was diagnosed as BPD and fully symptomatic, I can honestly say that BEING BPD is as much Hell ad living with someone with BPD. It is so hard feeling like you are a burden to everyone AND that you try your best but aren't worthy of love. Then when you want to kill yourself because you feel horrible all of the time and that it really won't get any better, people shame you and call you a coward. But then you figure that they only want you to live so that they don't fell guilty about you dying. Since your self-worth is so low, you feel guilty over causing them guilt about your death.

 

You see people loving and respecting each other around you everyday and craving that attention, but you can't see AT ALL the things you are DOING that are blunting that from happening in your life. You tell people often that you care but can't follow it up and feel that people are having constant expectations for you to perfect that you can NEVER reach. You feel like your feelings don't natter to those around you because really they overwhelm everyone around you and they can't validate you NON-STOP.

 

When you start a new relationship, your partner validates you. Then as time goes on they try to suggest altering something and you hear pure rejection. Criticism or even IMPLIED criticism hits like a ton of bricks.because you know to not be SEEN as perfect means REJECTION. you argue against it, and they it seems you are REJECTED further.

 

The world is so blank and white (because your frontal lives aren't working in balance due to the trauma imbalance on the right side). It literally feels like "oh finally, finally someone loves me. Truly, truly loves me!" to "he didn't make my half of the bed and is 15 mins late getting home, why doesn't he love me? Why is he leaving me like this? Ill wait forever but why does he want me to suffer? Why doesn't he care that this hurts me?"

 

And yes, it hurts. It's a crippling, crippling hurt. Having a mild argument with your mate means you take a day off work and lie in bed because it's so overwhelming. It feels like the whole world is gray and black and that it's all over and nothing will make it better.

 

You don't see anyone else in pain as much as you ever, so you know that there is something wrong with you, but you think it's too deep for anything to ever help. Probably because your parents told you, told you, told you that it's because you are weak, lazy, crazy and miserable, and if you'd just listen to them everything would've been fine.

 

I'm so glad I had EMDR.

I TRY not to get exasperated when people are in pain because I know that very few people could tangibly grasp and understand the level of pain I was in. The good part is that my youth and therapy prepared mr for the pain in my marriage, which I realized that I was going to survive despite the ridiculous emotional battering it put me through. The pain showed me a much bigger picture than I wouldve been able to see otherwise.

[Radu]

 

When you start a new relationship, your partner validates you. Then as time goes on they try to suggest altering something and you hear pure rejection. Criticism or even IMPLIED criticism hits like a ton of bricks.because you know to not be SEEN as perfect means REJECTION. you argue against it, and they it seems you are REJECTED further.

 

The world is so blank and white (because your frontal lives aren't working in balance due to the trauma imbalance on the right side). It literally feels like "oh finally, finally someone loves me. Truly, truly loves me!" to "he didn't make my half of the bed and is 15 mins late getting home, why doesn't he love me? Why is he leaving me like this? Ill wait forever but why does he want me to suffer? Why doesn't he care that this hurts me?"

 

And yes, it hurts. It's a crippling, crippling hurt. Having a mild argument with your mate means you take a day off work and lie in bed because it's so overwhelming. It feels like the whole world is gray and black and that it's all over and nothing will make it better.

 

You don't see anyone else in pain as much as you ever, so you know that there is something wrong with you, but you think it's too deep for anything to ever help. Probably because your parents told you, told you, told you that it's because you are weak, lazy, crazy and miserable, and if you'd just listen to them everything would've been fine.

 

I'm so glad I had EMDR.

I TRY not to get exasperated when people are in pain because I know that very few people could tangibly grasp and understand the level of pain I was in. The good part is that my youth and therapy prepared mr for the pain in my marriage, which I realized that I was going to survive despite the ridiculous emotional battering it put me through. The pain showed me a much bigger picture than I wouldve been able to see otherwise.

 

 

I have a problem with the bolded part and to a less extent others [but the bolded one is big], did EMDR really help with that ?

 

PS: I sent you a PM about EMDR.

[dreamingoftigers]

I have a problem with the bolded part and to a less extent others [but the bolded one is big], did EMDR really help with that ?

 

PS: I sent you a PM about EMDR.

 

Yes! Totally! It helped (although not erradicated) the issue.

 

Since with BPD, you mostly live with fight or flight activated, Your brain is constantly looking for/on guard for stimulus that you are going to be rejected/abandoned. So many things can give clues for that. If there are no clues for that, than one's own fear predicates caution.

 

Caution about abandonment for borderlines is no small thing. Often it means sitting your mate down and going, " you're leaving, aren't you!? You looked at the vacation advertisement in the mail and your going to go to Hawaii and leave me, aren't you!?"

 

By doing this the borderline thinks: well he can see how scared I am to lose him so if he loves me, he won't leave me.

 

The guy thinks: WTF, she's crazy, now I want to run away to Hawaii, but I'm not sure it'll be far enough!

--------------------

 

Once you become desensitized to the initial trauma (through something like EMDR) you don't have to search for that "evidence" anymore because it isn't as much of a threat. At the VERY LEAST, it stops the brain from going right to the former traumatic imbalance (because EMDR processes it, TA-da) and then you can THINK about your behaviour I stead of just reacting in impulsive anger or fear.

[freestyle]

Thank you,

 

She is a bright little charming girl

Quite often she catches me by surprise.

 

She seems to have a mix of both of us, she definitely looks just like him. Often people are surprised she looks like him but is a cute little-girl version of his look. It's hard to envision if you haven't seen the two.

 

Her vocabulary is just, wow!

 

I can't wait to hear her read. I love how she is so determined to do so much too.

 

 

 

As someone who was diagnosed as BPD and fully symptomatic, I can honestly say that BEING BPD is as much Hell ad living with someone with BPD. It is so hard feeling like you are a burden to everyone AND that you try your best but aren't worthy of love. Then when you want to kill yourself because you feel horrible all of the time and that it really won't get any better, people shame you and call you a coward. But then you figure that they only want you to live so that they don't fell guilty about you dying. Since your self-worth is so low, you feel guilty over causing them guilt about your death.

 

You see people loving and respecting each other around you everyday and craving that attention, but you can't see AT ALL the things you are DOING that are blunting that from happening in your life. You tell people often that you care but can't follow it up and feel that people are having constant expectations for you to perfect that you can NEVER reach. You feel like your feelings don't natter to those around you because really they overwhelm everyone around you and they can't validate you NON-STOP.

 

When you start a new relationship, your partner validates you. Then as time goes on they try to suggest altering something and you hear pure rejection. Criticism or even IMPLIED criticism hits like a ton of bricks.because you know to not be SEEN as perfect means REJECTION. you argue against it, and they it seems you are REJECTED further.

 

The world is so blank and white (because your frontal lives aren't working in balance due to the trauma imbalance on the right side). It literally feels like "oh finally, finally someone loves me. Truly, truly loves me!" to "he didn't make my half of the bed and is 15 mins late getting home, why doesn't he love me? Why is he leaving me like this? Ill wait forever but why does he want me to suffer? Why doesn't he care that this hurts me?"

 

And yes, it hurts. It's a crippling, crippling hurt. Having a mild argument with your mate means you take a day off work and lie in bed because it's so overwhelming. It feels like the whole world is gray and black and that it's all over and nothing will make it better.

 

You don't see anyone else in pain as much as you ever, so you know that there is something wrong with you, but you think it's too deep for anything to ever help. Probably because your parents told you, told you, told you that it's because you are weak, lazy, crazy and miserable, and if you'd just listen to them everything would've been fine.

 

I'm so glad I had EMDR.

I TRY not to get exasperated when people are in pain because I know that very few people could tangibly grasp and understand the level of pain I was in. The good part is that my youth and therapy prepared mr for the pain in my marriage, which I realized that I was going to survive despite the ridiculous emotional battering it put me through. The pain showed me a much bigger picture than I wouldve been able to see otherwise.

 

Do you fully agree with the BPD diagnosis of yourself?

 

I'm asking because I've read that PTSD, and C-PTSD are often misdiagnosed as BPD. Many of the symptoms overlap.

 

I'm wondering because my understanding of BPD is that it's been called, the disorder that exists to deny itself---that the bulk of people with BPD simply can't admit that they have any problems (and subsequently go untreated)

 

That any introspection, or critical examination of one's own behaviors has no place in the world of a BPD--it would result in extreme self-flagellation.

 

So I guess I'm surprised that someone with that diagnosis would be so candid, and open about it as you are. (that's intended as a compliment, BTW) It could be that I'm not as informed as you are.

 

And BTW--I'm very sorry for the extreme pain you've felt. What I've read about people with BPD, it's like having third degree burns on their emotions.

It's not something I would wish on anyone. Good for you, for going through the therapeutic process to begin healing, and ending the cycle of abuse.

[Radu]

How do you identify the initial trauma if it took place more than 20yrs ago and you were 7 ?

[dreamingoftigers]

Do you fully agree with the BPD diagnosis of yourself?

 

I'm asking because I've read that PTSD, and C-PTSD are often misdiagnosed as BPD. Many of the symptoms overlap.

 

I'm wondering because my understanding of BPD is that it's been called, the disorder that exists to deny itself---that the bulk of people with BPD simply can't admit that they have any problems (and subsequently go untreated)

 

That any introspection, or critical examination of one's own behaviors has no place in the world of a BPD--it would result in extreme self-flagellation.

 

So I guess I'm surprised that someone with that diagnosis would be so candid, and open about it as you are. (that's intended as a compliment, BTW) It could

be that I'm not as informed as you are.

 

And BTW--I'm very sorry for the extreme pain you've felt. What I've read about people with BPD, it's like having third degree burns on their emotions.

It's not something I would wish on anyone. Good for you, for going through the therapeutic process to begin healing, and ending the cycle of abuse.

 

It's somewhat spectral as well. A lot of BPDs know that they have something wrong. Some are even proud of it in a weird way. Some use it as a ticket.

 

In my case, I fit the symptoms to a "T." I know a lot of BPDs are in denial because frankly they DO believe, and I can fully see why, especially now, that it IS everyone else hurting them. The sad part is that at the impressionable parts of their lives IT WAS. So it's not just paranoia, it just happens that they have the same fun-house glasses stapled to their faces when they were kids. It's pretty hard to convince someone that people aren't all warped looking if they have been staring through those glasses their while lives and can't a get a person truly close enough to touch them!

 

As for me, I ended up hospitalized 3 times all around 8 years ago (suicide attempts). In my case I felt that my suicide was perfectly justifiable and reasonable (in my context, it was). However, I also realized that the average person did not end up in a hospital 3 times. I was also quite a brat. I was brought into hospital more than 3 times. The last hospitalization happened after I had been brought in 3 times that WEEK. I was able to talk myself out of it twice, saying I would "never do it again, it wasn't worth it" only to get out and attempt again. The third time that week, I asked them to take me to a different hospital, it turned out the assessing doctor from night 1 was there for a shift, and had me stay until the more specifically evaluated me.

 

At that point it became pretty hard to deny there WASN'T a problem. But there were government - run options. Unfortunately the waiting list was 18 months. I didn't have 18 months. I ended up on the street. But that time I also realized I wasn't very good at committing suicide, so I gave up on myself completely being able to get anything "right."

 

The EMDR came by fluke much later. It was to help me deal with my husbands infidelity. The truth was, I thought because I wasnt actively suicidal that I wasn't BPD anymore. I thought I was just traumatized BY HIM

 

Ha ha. In a screwed up way it's a good thing he traumatized me. Or else I still would be traumatized. I got into EMDR researching options for my husband who I thought was the only screwed-up one in our marriage. After one session and more research, I knew it was the answer for me too. Which was good because I was sick of wanting to die.

 

How do you identify the initial trauma if it took place more than 20yrs ago and you were 7 ?

 

Your history helps to determine what may be triggering for you, then as the process starts, your brain just spits it out. It's like reliving your past like a movie. Very intense though.

 

There is no way you'll question what traumatized you.

[Radu]

I think i get that part now, i am re-reading my last PM to you and it feels a bit like that.

 

I think it applies to some posts in this thread as well, not necessarily all mine.

[dreamingoftigers]

Relating this back to the whole thread:

 

Broken parents tend not to make whole kids.

 

This doesn't mean that what they did was justified or that we were or are inherently broken. It means that we've been exposed to heavy stressors that can cause major perceptive issues that we are not entirely aware of even though we might see 80% of it.

 

So since we've had broken parents, it is probably best to get ourselves evaluated for lingering serious issues.

 

I've got to run around after my little kid so she doesn't become a neglect case. So I'll probably post later.

[Sugarkane]

Has anyone else had zero help with therapy? Why is there no specialists in this area. My parents always blame me for being sheltered and naive, so why did they bring me up that way? My dad always blames everything on his own abusive parents. I always wondered why he didn't completely cut them off? It's really His own fault for turning into them.

[Sugarkane]

People don't believe me what an Ahole he really is.

[dreamingoftigers]

My mother blames her crap on her parents too and my Dad's crap on his parents.

 

but then in the next breath says: "we've NEVER been mean to you." "we're nothing like our parents." "don't say I'm anything like my mother." "you're crazy, no one has ever been abused in this house." "It's not like you're perfect." "you're father is just stressed out." "he's tired." "his feet hurt." "you are never nice enough to him."

 

And my all-time favorite: "well, I guess you just can't feel the LOVE."

[Sugarkane]

My mother blames her crap on her parents too and my Dad's crap on his parents.

 

but then in the next breath says: "we've NEVER been mean to you." "we're nothing like our parents." "don't say I'm anything like my mother." "you're crazy, no one has ever been abused in this house." "It's not like you're perfect." "you're father is just stressed out." "he's tired." "his feet hurt." "you are never nice enough to him."

 

And my all-time favorite: "well, I guess you just can't feel the LOVE."

 

Mine say exactly the same things. Yet if I'm tired and stressed out I'm not allowed to verbally abuse people.

[dreamingoftigers]

I really liked Toxic Parents just for the fact that it made their games and BS crystal clear. Older book but just great for defining things.

 

I remember sorting that one with my Mom:

 

Okay: "so when we are stressed we can yell and freak out at everyone or we can't? Which is it, because it isn't one set of rules for Dad and another for the rest of us." So dumb.

[bluegreen]

Their evilness is never ending and only as long as you fight back they circle around you and are afraid of to attack directly so they satisfy them self's with hurling insults that are sadly more fitting into their own images.

You are no good lousy lazy looser = Yeah But am looser who is in college while you mom'e dear have to whine beg and cry for someone to "drive" you to grocery store make an appointment for you or call phone company to fix a problem cause you refused to learn how to do that on your own

how knowing that and more makes me a looser in her eyes its beyond my understanding I can make a book of the examples like this.

 

Have you ever noticed when they finally spent all the trash and poison that comes out of their mouth how "Old" pathetic and sad sight they are and how each time you like them less and feel more of nothing for them ?

[freestyle]

so they satisfy them self's with hurling insults that are sadly more fitting into their own images.

 

You just described projection.

 

NPD's absolutely can't accept that there could be any faults with their own behavior, so they project their own attributes to others, and bash them for it.

 

They get a temporary boost from this, it helps prop up their false sense of self, my making them feel superior.

 

It's very difficult for those of us who end up in their crosshairs.

 

Verbal abuse of that nature is never acceptable.

 

The trick is to NOT internalize what they say about us, or others.

 

When they're criticizing and fault-finding without foundation, it's about THEM, not us.

 

It will get easier to shake off the insults, the more you come to understand that---they'll lose some of their power to hurt.

 

One boundary you can set, is to refuse to participate in a conversation when you're being insulted---just walk away. Engaging, or defending will only escalate the conflict---Cluster B types thrive on that kind of drama.

[bluegreen]

It has been slow painful process for me to learn that but it gets easier even by grain sand day by day she had power to leave me shaking and sobbing out loud now I rip her apart with skill learned from best = her.

You are right I have to learn to turn back leave smile and not respond so far I have not managed that and she is so pathetic that any kind of attention even negative one its better then being ignored it eats her like a cancer not to be looked at talked to or attended.

[dreamingoftigers]

This is the best way I've ever seen it put.

 

My parents are classic for this behavior.

 

You just described projection.

 

NPD's absolutely can't accept that there could be any faults with their own behavior, so they project their own attributes to others, and bash them for it.

 

They get a temporary boost from this, it helps prop up their false sense of self, my making them feel superior.

 

It's very difficult for those of us who end up in their crosshairs.

 

Verbal abuse of that nature is never acceptable.

 

The trick is to NOT internalize what they say about us, or others.

 

When they're criticizing and fault-finding without foundation, it's about THEM, not us.

 

It will get easier to shake off the insults, the more you come to understand that---they'll lose some of their power to hurt.

 

One boundary you can set, is to refuse to participate in a conversation when you're being insulted---just walk away. Engaging, or defending will only escalate the conflict---Cluster B types thrive on that kind of drama.

[bluegreen]

Unfortunately for us every word of that its true as gold and it makes me sick to know that and explaining this to friends and s/o its ground open and please swallow me up humiliating I will despise her all my life for that if not for anything else she had done to me ...

[freestyle]

It has been slow painful process for me to learn that but it gets easier even by grain sand day by day she had power to leave me shaking and sobbing out loud now I rip her apart with skill learned from best = her.

You are right I have to learn to turn back leave smile and not respond so far I have not managed that and she is so pathetic that any kind of attention even negative one its better then being ignored it eats her like a cancer not to be looked at talked to or attended.

 

Unfortunately for us every word of that its true as gold and it makes me sick to know that and explaining this to friends and s/o its ground open and please swallow me up humiliating I will despise her all my life for that if not for anything else she had done to me ...

 

 

 

bluegreen--

 

 

If I may ask, what are the circumstances that have you dealing with this?

 

Do you still live at home?

 

Also--I'd like to suggest starting another thread, if you'd like to have more support & focus for your situation. I'm not implying that you're thread-jacking, not at all---You're right on -topic here, as far as I'm concerned.

 

You just sound like you could use some support, and you'll probably get more attention with a new thread.

[bluegreen]

It does seem that way right

Yes I do am still in school and even tough am an adult its no other family except me and her plus all cultural mix up and add this lousy economy to it and that's my mess.

Hopefully I will clear it up by the time I get my degree and I know it would be easier to get a roommate and get the h.... out of there but I fear jumping from water to a fire so to say situation so somehow I'll muddle trough this until then.

 

And you are also right some days are really harder then others and its easier to notice on my as person or my comments ...

[Sugarkane]

I find that theres not enough info on this subject out there as I would like. Plus societies belief that only children can be abused. And societies belief that you should keep in contact no matter how toxic they are aswell. I find a lot of conflicting information.