Parents need $5k in repairs to their house

[RiverRunning]

I've written in detail about my parents lately: basically, my mom hasn't worked in almost 40 years besides little baby-sitting jobs. My dad's worked sporadically the entire year due to health problems (he's only grossed $13k so far this year) and they're barely scraping by. On top of the fact that my mom's crazy (see: narcissism thread), this is tearing their marriage apart.

 

A few weeks ago, sewage started flooding into my parents' basement. It's the main sewer line. It's going to be about $5k to do the repairs. My parents don't have the money. They were advised not to wash dishes, use the toilet, shower, or do laundry as much as possible (because it floods again and they have to bail out water).

 

I was planning on meeting with them tomorrow to go over their budget and try to keep them going as long as possible (part of this is selfish: they are so difficult and have been so verbally abusive to me that I NEVER want to feel obligated into having them move in with me. Not an exaggeration - I think I'd sooner die).

 

I think at this point, walking away from the house and letting it go into foreclosure is the best option. They've lived there 20 years and have never made major repairs until now. I tried telling my mom that it's only a matter of time before other major things start going wrong with the house. She seems to think they can hold off and in a YEAR or so, she can afford to have the main sewer line replaced.

 

She's worried she'll be sued by the city if she walks away from the house. Would it be wise to have her call the mortgage company and see what her options are? Years ago, my brother and sister-in-law were paid $1k by the bank to hand over the keys to their house...to avoid the expenses of the foreclosure process.

 

Because they're both 350+ lbs., they can't really get around to take care of the house. They've hired a co-worker of my dad's to mow the lawn every two weeks. They always need help with the smallest of things. They are spending so much money for things like that that they wouldn't have to worry about if they got an apartment.

 

along with, in many cases, their utilities, no repairs, etc.

 

What would you do in their position? I'm 24 and I've never bought a house, let alone had a mortgage or had to worry about one going into foreclosure.

 

If not for the fact that my brother is still so attached to my parents (and I do this to help him out), I'd have nothing to do with these people. It's like overseeing toddlers who constantly need someone to wipe their butts. The most basic of concepts ("Hey, try talking to your husband if you have a problem with him, all right?") seem to be monumental tasks to them.

 

It's driving me crazy.

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure they still owe at least $30k on the house. They live in a relatively low-income area (around Detroit). Many similar houses are lucky to go for $20-$30k in short sales and the like.

[Art_Critic]

I think at this point, walking away from the house and letting it go into foreclosure is the best option. They've lived there 20 years and have never made major repairs until now. I tried telling my mom that it's only a matter of time before other major things start going wrong with the house. She seems to think they can hold off and in a YEAR or so, she can afford to have the main sewer line replaced.

 

What ??????

 

Are you serious... tell them to walk away because they didn't repair the house the entire time they lived there..

That has to be the most irresponsible advice I have ever heard.

 

I would suggest honestly that you help your parents thru this..

They raised you in that house and they are your parents.

They would still have to live somewhere..

 

Have you spoken to the plumbing company that did the estimate ?

Maybe there is something that you can help with..

[hotgurl]

I've written in detail about my parents lately: basically, my mom hasn't worked in almost 40 years besides little baby-sitting jobs. My dad's worked sporadically the entire year due to health problems (he's only grossed $13k so far this year) and they're barely scraping by. On top of the fact that my mom's crazy (see: narcissism thread), this is tearing their marriage apart.

 

A few weeks ago, sewage started flooding into my parents' basement. It's the main sewer line. It's going to be about $5k to do the repairs. My parents don't have the money. They were advised not to wash dishes, use the toilet, shower, or do laundry as much as possible (because it floods again and they have to bail out water).

 

I was planning on meeting with them tomorrow to go over their budget and try to keep them going as long as possible (part of this is selfish: they are so difficult and have been so verbally abusive to me that I NEVER want to feel obligated into having them move in with me. Not an exaggeration - I think I'd sooner die).

 

I think at this point, walking away from the house and letting it go into foreclosure is the best option. They've lived there 20 years and have never made major repairs until now. I tried telling my mom that it's only a matter of time before other major things start going wrong with the house. She seems to think they can hold off and in a YEAR or so, she can afford to have the main sewer line replaced.

 

She's worried she'll be sued by the city if she walks away from the house. Would it be wise to have her call the mortgage company and see what her options are? Years ago, my brother and sister-in-law were paid $1k by the bank to hand over the keys to their house...to avoid the expenses of the foreclosure process.

 

Because they're both 350+ lbs., they can't really get around to take care of the house. They've hired a co-worker of my dad's to mow the lawn every two weeks. They always need help with the smallest of things. They are spending so much money for things like that that they wouldn't have to worry about if they got an apartment.

 

along with, in many cases, their utilities, no repairs, etc.

 

What would you do in their position? I'm 24 and I've never bought a house, let alone had a mortgage or had to worry about one going into foreclosure.

 

If not for the fact that my brother is still so attached to my parents (and I do this to help him out), I'd have nothing to do with these people. It's like overseeing toddlers who constantly need someone to wipe their butts. The most basic of concepts ("Hey, try talking to your husband if you have a problem with him, all right?") seem to be monumental tasks to them.

 

It's driving me crazy.

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure they still owe at least $30k on the house. They live in a relatively low-income area (around Detroit). Many similar houses are lucky to go for $20-$30k in short sales and the like.

 

are they really about to be foreclosed upon? IF they only owe 30K it might be wise to stay. I would talk to a bank. Also they really need to fix the line. I just had the same problem actually last weekend.

 

You can't wait to fix it the city could condemn the house. It depends on what their house payments are etc... I am assuming they can't get a equity loan and some help through the state. Sometimes there are programs to help low income people with home repairs etc...

[hotgurl]

They might be able to pay on time. Plus how many quotes did they get. I can vary a lot.

[Radu]

I don't live in the US so i will say just general stuff i learned in the last 5months of building hell :

- get bids from several contractors, not just 1

- if possible, try to see if some of the builders are interested in repairing it on their off hs, for money on the side, not to go through a company. Technically it's not nice, but out of the money a big chunk goes to taxes, profit, etc ...

Over here it's done all the time, but then again corruption is rampant.

- if the water remains infiltrated in the basement [i assume concrete basement] you are looking at quite some nasty damage, depending on the height of the house, what it's made off, quality of construction, etc ...

- anyone buying this house on shortsale, will consider the 5k in damages to be about 7.5k in damages if not more. Nobody gives out free hand-outs, and the ppl who buy this house might be interested in turning a profit as well.

- if you have external insulation of the polystirene type, infiltrated water can get between the PS plates and the wall itself, basically your insulation will start to crack and maybe even fall off.

 

Considering what you wrote in the other threads about your dad's condition and earning power, i honestly don't believe they should keep the house unless you and your brother chip in.

It's just not possible.

Moving into an apartment is an option, and it makes actually a ton of sense.

Have you considered them moving into one, and you or your brother taking over the house, buying it from them if need be ?

[RiverRunning]

Irresponsible advice? I'm saying they should walk away because they likely won't be able to afford to have one major repair done in the next year (which, yes, could lead to their house getting condemned). I'm not even talking about the roof, which will likely need replacing within the next few years.

 

They've had a family friend do some repairs for them in the last few years, and paying him $1k (work that would likely cost $2 - $3k for professionals to do) has about wiped them out.

 

I'm suggesting that they let it go into foreclosure because: they would not have to worry about replacing the main sewer line, or indeed any other major repairs that they have neglected to do over the last 20 years; they wouldn't have to pay someone to mow the lawn (they haven't been able to afford a lawn mower).

 

They could pay $600 a month for an apartment around here - no concerns for repairs, upkeep on the lawns and the like, or worry about their utilities (besides water). Alternatively, they have a $600/mo. mortgage, about $300 a month for their utilities, about $50 a month to have someone to mow the lawn/shovel the snow, etc. That's a minimum savings of $350 a month, Art_Critic.

 

Before I get anymore snarky responses, I have offered to handle the lawn and the snow. They refuse. I have given those people more money than they've ever deserved from me, especially considering one refuses to do anything to help herself and get a job. I'm more lenient on my dad given his conditions.

 

But 'help them through this'? Yes, because I have $4 or $5k just lying around that I can give to them.

 

I've looked around for anything in our state as far as repairs go, hotgurl. I can't find anything. I've found several resources for applying for help with foreclosures and the like, but I do think that's a band-aid that's not going to help longer term. I think that holding onto their house is unsustainable.

 

They're completely irresponsible with their money to begin with. Did I not emphasize these people were verbally and emotionally abusive the entire time that I lived with them? I don't owe them anything. I always paid for my bills and I've helped them out of more financial binds than I ever should have.

 

It's enough that I have bought them groceries several times over the last year. I'm trying to help them budget out their expenses and explore their options because my mom's automatic response is to go into "woe is me" and "Blame Dad" modes without ever sitting down and exploring her options. They both wait for somebody to come and be responsible for both of them.

 

I will avoid having them move in with me at all costs. I'm not going to have two abusers back in my home, and that would certainly break up my relationship.

 

If not for the fact that they're already falling behind on their payments (the $30k remainder means that they have 6 - 7 more years left to pay it off), if not for the fact that it doesn't seem that their income is likely to increase, but to decrease (my dad's health, mom's complete and utter refusal to work), I would not suggest letting it go into foreclosure.

They have already had their payments lowered to avoid foreclosure in the past - the bank has been steadfast in saying that nothing else as far as lowering their payments can be done. If they aren't on-time with their mortgage every month, the foreclosure process will begin.

 

As it is, I really do think they should just stop paying the mortgage and go get an apartment before their credit gets completely shot.

[darkmoon]

"they are so difficult and have been so verbally abusive to me...."

 

speaking as an abuse survivor myself, there might be a deeper reason for you to be concerned to get on with them and to be helpful - are you trying to win thier love, even now? as for me, i wish i'd left my parents lives alot sooner

[RiverRunning]

Radu, I've no interest in the house. I know that it's a matter of time before several major repairs need to be done, it's in a relatively bad area with poor schools/increasing crime, etc. My parents have neglected it a great deal. It would be a more feasible option for my brother, but he's not at all interested.

 

We're looking at a house in another area.

 

My brother lives paycheck-to-paycheck and knows that he and his wife could not afford it if something were to go wrong. Otherwise, they would have gotten a house of their own by now.

 

While my fiancee makes considerably more money than I do, as far as my own bills go, I'm not doing that well. I have student loans that will number in the hundreds for the next 10 or so years. I don't feel it's my fiancee's place to bail my parents out of water - he's not happy about how they've treated me over the years, and he's saving for other things (our wedding, buying a house).

 

If I had the money, I would do it. But given my parents' irresponsible spending, I feel that if I started paying for their house or helping them out with it, they'd just blow the money they DO have elsewhere. They have done this in the past. Not to mention that my mom especially shows no gratitude for anything I do for her.

 

I was over her house helping her just yesterday and she was calling relatives to launch into her "woe is me, no one understands, no one cares about me, no one helps me speech." She knows, I know, and the people she talks to know that this means, "My husband and my kids are good-for-nothings," and that's absolutely not true.

[Art_Critic]

You might try finding a program to help them.

This program is from last year but may still be giving help.

 

There also may be other help available

 

Home Repair Funds Available For Detroit Seniors « CBS Detroit

 

Seniors who need emergency home repairs can apply for financial assistance from the City of Detroit. City officials will accept applications for the Seniors Emergency Home Repair Program this Saturday, September 24th.

 

The program provides grants of up to $12,000 for low-income seniors 65 and older or physically disabled persons 55 and older. The grants will help with roof, furnace, electrical, plumbing and structural repairs at their homes.

 

You’ll need to obtain a pre-screening application starting at 9 a.m. Saturday at Cobo Center. The forms must be submitted by 1 p.m. that day.

 

For more information about the Senior Emergency Home Repair Program,

 

[RiverRunning]

"they are so difficult and have been so verbally abusive to me...."

 

speaking as an abuse survivor myself, there might be a deeper reason for you to be concerned to get on with them and to be helpful - are you trying to win thier love, even now? as for me, i wish i'd left my parents lives alot sooner

 

I'm sure on some level, I am. Mostly, as evidenced by some of the comments in this thread, it's a bid to avoid being scorned as a 'bad daughter' by my entire family. It amazes me how sacred the "they're your parents" bond is and how you should be crawling all over their feet unless you wanted to be shamed, regardless of how they treat you, in this culture.

 

Then again, I've learned that I will never get my mom's approval and I will always be bad and awful, no matter how much I do for her.

 

Mostly, I don't want to become a scapegoat because I sat back and let them lose their house. Then it's, "RiverRunning didn't do ANYTHING to help her parents, and now they're out on the streets!"

 

My parents and my family expect my involvement to a much greater degree than they expect my brother's. I'm expected to do the proverbial butt wipe, I guess.

[RiverRunning]

You might try finding a program to help them.

This program is from last year but may still be giving help.

 

There also may be other help available

 

Home Repair Funds Available For Detroit Seniors « CBS Detroit

 

This is a great resource - unfortunately, they live on the outskirts of Detroit, so they wouldn't be eligible even if this is still going. I'm still looking around. I can't find anything for their city (it's a small city) that suggests any kind of repairs.

 

It's all geared toward foreclosures/rent payment.

 

I am finding some older programs in the general Wayne County area, so I'll try to pass those on.

 

Thanks, guys.

[Art_Critic]

the link I posted is a yearly deal where they have a drawing and spend the money from the grants that way...

 

There have to be other programs for people like your parents who are disabled and or on SS.

 

 

 

Detroit Senior Emergency Home Repair

 

The Senior Emergency Home Repair in Detroit, Michigan, provides home repair grants to low-income seniors who are homeowners and age 65 and older or disabled and age 55 or older. The grants pay for emergency repairs that remove health and safety hazards and correct serious housing code violations. Applicants must live in the property to be repaired. The maximum grant amount is $12,000, and eligible repairs include electrical systems, furnaces, plumbing, roofs and structural repairs. The city of Detroit holds an annual drawing to select applicants for the grants. The Housing Services Division provides grant applications.

 

Senior Emergency Home Repair Program

 

Housing Services Division

 

65 Cadillac Square, Suite 1700

 

Detroit, MI 48226

 

313-224-3461

 

detroitmi.gov

[Art_Critic]

This is a great resource - unfortunately, they live on the outskirts of Detroit, so they wouldn't be eligible even if this is still going. I'm still looking around. I can't find anything for their city (it's a small city) that suggests any kind of repairs.

 

It's all geared toward foreclosures/rent payment.

 

I am finding some older programs in the general Wayne County area, so I'll try to pass those on.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

Oh... ignore my last post then....

 

Maybe it is possible to find a plumbing company that can help rather than charge them out the butt for the repairs...

[Radu]

What you just wrote RR ... yeah, in those conditions it's just not plain worth it if the houses in the area sell for 30k.

I suspect the roofs there are either tiles or lindap [corrugated colored metal].

The former is more expensive, and if there is a need for a total replacement [and from what you said about the house maintenance ... it could be], than it might even double the overall repair cost.

 

The downside to the apartment ideea is that rents can go up, they don't generally tend to go down, so look into that as well.

If the area is expected to get a major improvement in investment, you may be looking at a higher cost on the apartment than on the house.

 

Aren't there push-mowers still in use there ?

The kinds who didn't have engines.

Those shouldn't be very expensive and your mom can probably use it.

[darkmoon]

I'm sure on some level, I am. Mostly, as evidenced by some of the comments in this thread, it's a bid to avoid being scorned as a 'bad daughter' by my entire family. It amazes me how sacred the "they're your parents" bond is and how you should be crawling all over their feet unless you wanted to be shamed, regardless of how they treat you, in this culture.

 

Then again, I've learned that I will never get my mom's approval and I will always be bad and awful, no matter how much I do for her.

 

Mostly, I don't want to become a scapegoat because I sat back and let them lose their house. Then it's, "RiverRunning didn't do ANYTHING to help her parents, and now they're out on the streets!"

 

My parents and my family expect my involvement to a much greater degree than they expect my brother's. I'm expected to do the proverbial butt wipe, I guess.

 

i see two forty/fifty something people expecting one person (you) to parent them and at their age if they are running their lives like Calamity Jane would, then they always will...other family members, older ones than you should help, aunts uncles have probably already refuse to help them with money as they are bad payers back, don't fall into the trap of feeling obligated to butt-wipe, you know yourself they'll have selective hearing and be mean if they feel like it

Edited August 3, 2012 by darkmoon

[RiverRunning]

Radu, I think there's a chance they could get into a senior co-op apartment (my dad's 59, and I know there are some in the area that start accepting people at 55). My dad's not officially on SSDi yet - he has applied for disability, but technically he's not on it yet. Otherwise, it would probably be easier to find some stuff.

 

The good thing about co-op apartments is that the rent is adjusted according to your income and ability to pay.

 

Alternatively, rent can go up. But I have noticed (from years of wanting to gtfo my parents' place) that the rent isn't going up drastically. They should still be able to afford it.

 

Although I couldn't find it directly on the Habitat for Humanity site, apparently they sometimes get volunteers to help do repairs. I gave my parents the Detroit office's number. If they can't help, maybe they can refer my parents to somebody who can.

[Radu]

Then sacrifice the house for their future and yours.

 

It's the only possibility.

And when i say house, i mean that in a generous way, it's a toxic asset.

It eats money, gives off nothing but stress and it will show no real serious improvement unless you spend the whole sum.

The sad part is that if your mom had worked even a basic job, they would have kept it, and probably in good shape too.

 

However, if you are going to sacrifice it, at least do it smart.

Don't say this to them.

Do not pay for any improvements, it's money lost.

Try to time letting the payments go with when you can get an apartment for them, maybe even put a bit of money aside to help with the transition but nothing more.

See if there is anything of value in the house for which you hold no emotional attachement [good for sale].

See if you can get some volunteers to come and repair the house with repairs that only affect the good of their occupants. This is a dangerous one, if they get too comfortable, they won't go.

 

RR, to do this you will need to be a heartless manipulating b*tch, i doubt anyone here will blame you for it.

[darkmoon]

how come the stupidity of two adults rests on one young person's shoulders?

[MuscleCarFan]

how come the stupidity of two adults rests on one young person's shoulders?

 

This.

 

Considering how toxic your parents are RiverRunning, they don't deserve help plain and simple.

[SoleMate]

I'm not even sure it is your problem, but to the extent it is, then I think the idea of walking away from a deeply-underwater (both figuratively, based on loan to value, and literally, due to sewage) uninhabitable house, which they are completely unable to maintain, deserves careful consideration.

 

Whatever happens, don't throw YOUR money or credit into their sewer sump. That house could potentially absorb $50,000 of cash on repairs and still be underwater, in both senses......

[durentu]

do not accept the guilt or obligation. You brother has made his choice, and so did your parents. You are not obligated to be their bail out plan. In fact, letting them crash faster is better off for everyone.

 

quick and painless.

 

They and they alone are responsible and accountable for their decisions. It sucks, but that's how it works.

[pink_sugar]

I agree with the above poster. I know it's hard for you, I am 23 and still dealing with this. But considering you are an adult and how they have treated you, you owe them nothing. It's not your concern, plain and simple. Walk away. If you want them out of your lives, you need to start with not allowing this to affect you. It's their business, not yours. If you brother wants to have a relationship with them, great. You don't have to.

[RiverRunning]

I've gone over the possibility of no contact for more than a year. At the moment, it's just not feasible - for a litany of reasons, among them that my mom is interwoven herself as the family martyr so much that if I just stopped seeing them altogether, I would likely lose several other family members in the process. One of these is my 6-year-old cousin, who for obvious reasons has no control over whether or not he sees me himself. Putting up with my parents is worth having the right to see him - I couldn't let him go.

 

As awful as it sounds, they're both in such horrible health that I really don't expect them to be around for another 5 or 10 years. I know folks who didn't grow up in an abusive upbringing will find it horrible to see me say, "And I think I will be relieved when it happens," but it's the truth.

 

You're all right on this issue. I'm meeting with my family this morning to discuss possibilities, but I am not sinking a dollar of my own money into the house. I know it's a lost cause.

 

I've decided that after this, I'm going to make myself scarce as much as possible. I will go back to just running errands with my mom here and there, but beyond that, no relationship of any meaning.

 

The moment she starts bickering about my dad or wants to go on and on and on about her problems...I'm gone.

 

So, as terrible as it sounds, I still need them a little bit - even if it just means getting to see the rest of the family and avoiding having them hate/disown me if I turn my back on my parents.

 

Narcissists are pretty darn clever people. It's not that other people in my family are bad - it's just that they're ignorant about her ploys. They really do believe she is this ever-giving, generous woman who would get trampled down by her indignant, unworthy kid. And, again, because the "She's your mother!" mantra is so alive in American culture, I'd probably endure a lot more abuse from other relatives.

 

Alas, at the moment, being in contact seems a necessity. But you're all right that it doesn't have to be my problem. I can't completely divorce myself of worry - no matter how they treated me, especially later on, these people did provide my basic necessities growing up. On some small level, I will probably always care about them, even if I think they are truly awful people.

 

I am just practicing my lines: "Nope, you can't come live with me, guys! Sorry!" if it comes down to it.

 

My line of thinking through this whole thing has mostly been, "How much help should I give them to ensure they aren't on the streets...and then begging to stay with me?" Most of it is a self-protective measure. It is much easier and less threatening to me to give them advice on where to get help than it is to have to turn them down, which would circulate again through the family like wildfire.

[Radu]

From your description of them, i think your dad is in the worst shape.

Your mom, while overweight has less of a problem as estrogen cleans the arteries.

Narcissists live just for themselves, you will be surprised at how little stress affects them and how good they are at exteriorizing the stress on others.

NPD's i think tend to live long, and the f*ckers prosper too !

 

I think you got a good plan going, also i found it very odd that americans have this emphasis on 'but she's your mother', this respect upwards when you :

- can't wait to kick your kids out of the house at 18

- see adult children living with parents as a huge red flag

- stick them often in homes where there is the scent of death

Kinda boggles the mind about what this 'nuclear family' is supposed to be.

[lemontwist]

Have they checked if their homeowners insurance would cover any of this? Policies/regulations vary quite a bit between states, but depending on the cause of the break and where it is in the line, their policy may cover some of the damage to their home (or the damage in getting to the line to fix it). May also want to check with the city/county or a township trustee's office.

How much equity do they have in the home? Walking away from it is rarely the best option.

 

It's unfortunate that they are putting this stress on you... hopefully they appreciate your researching and budgeting help. Proposing solutions without risking your own money is probably the best thing you can do for them right now.