M30USA Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Speak God's Word for what it says and, while you may help save a lot of souls, you won't be popular or have too much support. That's what I've learned. The only people who seem to like hearing God's Word are the ones who are broken or at the end of themselves. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 As someone who isn't a Christian but believes in a supreme being (although I was previously Christian), I can say that I have had my prayers answered in life in the sense that things I wished to bring into my life were realized without me even noticing. Typically, they were non-tangible things, like strength, patience, tolerance, wisdom and understanding. It wasn't like a hands-together-praying-to-the-Lord kind of prayer, it was more like I was looking within myself and found God and spoke to him. Can't really explain it, but I feel that much of the things I can do in this life is related to an absolute Truth that exists beyond our plane of existence, but dwells within all of us. My mum says I don't "pray" enough - if only she knew . The only superficial thing I can say that I have ever prayed for was for Arsenal FC to win trophies . 3 Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Take a look at Jacob and Esau in the book of Genesis. It is written that God said, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." Now take a look at the lives of these two individuals. Esau (the one God hated) had a life filled with wealth and power. God actually granted Esau all of his wishes. However, Jacob (the one God loved) had a life of troubles on nearly all accounts. He was continually beaten down and disciplined by God. I have heard the great pastor Paul Washer say that God's curse on Esau was that "he let Esau be Esau". I remember this story in the Bible well Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Hold on now!! It was said in the bible that God was perfect. A perfect God could not possibly engage in such devilish emotions as hate. That wouldnt be perfect as it is a sinful emotion. It's in the Bible. People don't like to acknowledge it. All we hear is love, love, love in church. But it's in the Bible. The reason we have so many problems with the idea of a God "hating" is because when we as humans hate, it's done with usually selfish reasons or incomplete knowledge. If God hates, you can be sure it's righteous hate unlike ours. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 He doesnt, just like you dont know that it wasnt limited to physical salvation. You choose to believe that because a miracle failed to come up and save millions that it must be a miracle in some other way. The only difference is he can prove that no divine intervention happened to save those peoples lives and prevent thier horrible demise. You cant prove that a miracle happened after that on a non physical level. You just chose to believe it did because there was none physically. BUUUUUZZZZZZZZZ!!!!! you completely missed the question I raised. I didn't specifically ask about miracles, but whether the prayers of the Jews facing death at the hands of the Nazis was limited to physical salvation. Because while I don't actually know what their prayers were, I wonder if they prayed for the people who hated them so much, and asked God to move their hearts because while they may not have wanted to die, they understood their persecutors souls were in jeopardy. And subsequently, the "miracle" was that they looked outside of themselves. Because when you think about it, there's something very, very powerful knowing you care about someone's well-being more than you do your own ... @ M30USA ~ my prayer petitions tend to be along the same lines, usually for patience! I can't quite ask for something for me, because I've already been blessed, you know? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I cant agree there. The many verses in the bible about homosexuality and how they should be put to death does not come across as righteous to me at all. It comes across as hateful and selfish, but also intolerant. Is your God all of those things? You will notice that when the woman who committed adultery was about to be stoned, everyone looked to Jesus to see what he would say. They knew he claimed to uphold the Law of Moses (which would say the woman should be stoned), yet they also knew he came to forgive. So what did he say? He actually said they should stone her...starting with the first person in the crowd who was without sin. What a brilliant response. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I understand that story and what it was to convey, but that still doesnt bring any sense to a perfect God engaging in devilish sinful emotions. So that would mean that God is sinful also, but how can he be if he is perfect? God is not tame. We like to pretend he's this perfectly civilized, diplomatic and polished God. He is far from that. Yes, God hates. He hates sin. He hates disobedience. He hates pride. Unfortunately almost 30 years of bad theology in America has warped our view on this subject. God has been made into this lovey-dovey teddy bear who will just overlook everything we do "because he loves us". No, it's because he loves us that he will break us and soften our hearts. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 God answers my prayers according to His will and timing. There have been times He's allowed me to go through the fire for refining purposes. Not referring to anyone on this thread, just in general- it saddens me when I see those who think God should jump and then for Him to ask how high. God is not some sugar daddy that should bow to every whim. I've seen people blame God for everything under the sun, put Him on show as a cheap parlor act, and get angry dissing Him when He doesn't do what they think He should. Personally I have had MANY answered prayers, and I thank Him for the prayers He didn't answer also for my own good. I've seen the many miracles. The fervent effectual prayer of a righteous man avails much. Prayer should be taken serious IMO, and it's important to understand the mind of God and the spiritual realm and how it operates (angels and demons). Prayer in itslef deserves it's own thread as there is a lot to it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Hate is such a childish emotion. How about if someone raped or killed your wife, daughter, sister, or mother? Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I hear you on that, thats a a human emotion and is unavoidable in in a situation like that. Yet your god is not human. Also it is written that he is perfect. So is he not perfect or is perfection man description of him that was wrong? If he engages is sinful emotions he cant be perfect. So is he or isnt he? The Bible does not say God is "perfect". It says he is holy and just. There is a subtle difference. "Perfect" suggests something that is not alive...like a computer. We humans feel hate over stupid and petty nonsense. Christ felt hate when he saw greedy people trying to make profit in a place where they were supposed to be worshipping God with pure hearts. This pissed him off. But if you want to say this is a flaw, that's where I differ. Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The Bible does not say God is "perfect". It says he is holy and just. There is a subtle difference. "Perfect" suggests something that is not alive...like a computer. We humans feel hate over stupid and petty nonsense. Christ felt hate when he saw greedy people trying to make profit in a place where they were supposed to be worshipping God with pure hearts. This pissed him off. But if you want to say this is a flaw, that's where I differ. I need to correct myself. The Bible does say God is "perfect". However, my general point remains the same. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 God is not tame. We like to pretend he's this perfectly civilized, diplomatic and polished God. He is far from that. Yes, God hates. He hates sin. He hates disobedience. He hates pride. Unfortunately almost 30 years of bad theology in America has warped our view on this subject. God has been made into this lovey-dovey teddy bear who will just overlook everything we do "because he loves us". No, it's because he loves us that he will break us and soften our hearts. Being a strong-willed individual I have experienced the Divine Woodshed more than I care to communicate. Going through the fire HURTS, and brokenness can feel like weakness at first, until you've been through it a few times and have the understanding that it is actually strength. Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He. There are more but I dont feel like looking all of them up. They say God and all his ways are perfect, but by what you have said he is not. If somebody did or ordered the things God did they would be called mass murderers and monsters. In no situation in humanity is anything like that acceptable. So why is it for god? Yes, see my last post. If we are made in God's image, and we hate, why cannot God hate? Does this not mean that God created the emotion of hate? Yet, just like all other things he created within us, they have become fallen and corrupted. But when God hates, it's not corrupted. I don't know how else to explain it. Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 . People can be successful even if they are evil or dont follow god. Very, very true. But the real blessings of God are spiritual and cannot be seen. Only the person knows it, themselves, but there is usually evidence of it when others see you. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Cool man. It's too bad, though, that asking God to make us more like Christ is practically a death wish--in a fleshly, non-spiritual sense. LOL, I can't resist responding to this. My Godmother and I decided to pray night and day for God to kill our "flesh"...He answered that prayer IMMEDIATELY. It was a trip, we were weak in the body and everything. For eight straight months I could not watch any TV, radio (even Christian) nothing. I was so hypersensitive it wasn't even funny. We decided not to pray for that anymore. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 :DI can relate to this so much. I have a lot of roses in my garden and when I am pruning them I think of the many times I have had the dead and dying broken/diseased parts lopped off. Then they bloom even more beautiful and stronger...I want to grow stronger. I can tell a difference but I am certainly not where I want to be or where I should be. This is awesome because I feel so bad pruning my roses, knowing that is us (me) when being "pruned" and how much it hurts us. I don't think about the "stronger" part at the time, and usually try to avoid the pain at all costs...so this is a cool way to think about it! Thank you:D 2 Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Is it God giving you what you need or is it your own will to succeed? Its your own will. People can be successful even if they are evil or don't follow God. true. However, the difference for the believer is that he chooses to credit a source other than himself, because he understands there's something greater than himself. Non-believers stop at self-credit. To each his own 4 Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 All the things people in this thread are talking about can and are still achieved without believing in God. Is it God giving you what you need or is it your own will to succeed? Its your own will. People can be successful even if they are evil or dont follow god. In a sense I get where you're coming from. Me personally, I believe in an omnipresence that exists, but perhaps not in the same way as in Christianity. I think of God as everything, as energy around & within us, as the Universe itself. Such is my belief in a Supreme being. As such, I believe that supreme being to represent an absolute Truth that can be found within ourselves, and within nature. A nature that Man has corrupted to a degree, but that's another story. The fact is, yes we can achieve those things without believing in God, but I do not think it's because there isn't a spiritual realm from which we receive our gifts from. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 This is oozing with hate. if this is your idea of god and religion no wonder more and more people are leaving the church. your divisiveness reeks. Well, no OP, I have to disagree for this reason. Even as a believer there was one time that I really remember my prayers going no where because I was out of the will of God...I felt them literally bouncing off the ceiling. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 That's patently false. when will some religious fanats stop lying to and insulting non believers and liberals within the religion? How was QA's answer insulting and not fact? It's one of the basic teachings within Christianity. If you don't believe in Christianity, then that is your choice, it doesn't make others who do liars or fanatics. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Kathym believes in useing her religion as a divisve weapon against jews and non believers and god knows who else. she does reek. defend her hate and you are just as guilty of hate. With all due respect OP, I've read many of Kathy's posts and she is definitely not against Jews or non believers. God knows the heart of every man (woman), so in a sense I think He does hear the prayers of all, but this may not be Biblical, I will have to study this aspect. Oh Lord, my heart is filled with all kinds of mess...God shows me my heart and it's not pretty to say the least, so I'm sure hate is in there too:o Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Its calling non christians selfish. if reeks of hate and if thats a basic teaching of a religious i'll stay far away from it. she lists her home as texas and texas is chock full of fanatics and they push their religion into laws. case in point restricting abortion. another case is not allowing gays to lawfully marry. it totally reeks. my home of boston has less hate. I have to ask this...why are Christians fanatics for communicating and standing by what the Bible teaches, and opposing veiws not fanatical? 4 Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Be careful praying for a kinder heart towards your fellow man, He will put the most annoying people He knows in front of you. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 If thats what the bible really teaches it reeks of hate People who say what you're saying typically don't understand just how awful sin really is. If you understood the depths and effects of sin, you wouldn't be saying what you're saying. God hates sin because he knows what it is and what it causes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Be careful praying for a kinder heart towards your fellow man, He will put the most annoying people He knows in front of you. Very true! LOL Same with praying for God's will for your life. Careful what you ask for 3 Link to post Share on other sites
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