madjac74 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Anyhow back to the OP. IMHO if people really think god... "creator of life, the universe, and everything.." answers their prayers then they should seek medical attention. Maybe he could but they may often cancel each other out and God may get disgruntled. For example...3000 Midwestern Americans pray for rain on a 100+ degree Sunday in July but another 3000 Midwestern Americans pray that while rain would be a blessing, we have a swimming party or cookout today so please just hold off the rain till tomorrow. What is God to do? Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Maybe he could but they may often cancel each other out and God may get disgruntled. For example...3000 Midwestern Americans pray for rain on a 100+ degree Sunday in July but another 3000 Midwestern Americans pray that while rain would be a blessing, we have a swimming party or cookout today so please just hold off the rain till tomorrow. What is God to do? Lol I think God lets nature take its course most of the time. I believe God created nature to be self-maintaining in a way... the cycle of water just being one example. One of the reasons why I think people need to take better care of the planet and the environment is because it does seem to affect nature. While it's good to pray and ask God for rain (I have no problem with that and believe God says yes and intervenes in nature sometimes), I do believe God does give nature a free reign. That is why I believe God allows natural tragedies... nature is simply taking its course. I don't believe most natural tragedies are punishments, though some issues in nature nowadays I think are affected by humans' man-made inventions and wastes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
madjac74 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Lol I think God lets nature take its course most of the time. I believe God created nature to be self-maintaining in a way... the cycle of water just being one example. One of the reasons why I think people need to take better care of the planet and the environment is because it does seem to affect nature. While it's good to pray and ask God for rain (I have no problem with that and believe God says yes and intervenes in nature sometimes), I do believe God does give nature a free reign. That is why I believe God allows natural tragedies... nature is simply taking its course. I don't believe most natural tragedies are punishments, though some issues in nature nowadays I think are affected by humans' man-made inventions and wastes. So you seem like a pretty level headed follower of God...are you careful of what you pray for knowing that God may be overwhelmed and Do you think it's reckless for people to pray for everything that pops into their little heads? "Dear God If this girl goes out with me I'll never sin again..." "Dear God if he makes this field goal, I promise I'll go to church NEXT Sunday" Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 "Righteous" persons. Wow. Makes my eyes roll when I hear talk like that. How do you know? Where you there? What kind of god murders anyways? I certainly wouldn't want to follow a murdering god. And I certainly wouldn't follow a god who damns people (see: gays) because of whom they What do you know about Sodom and Gomorrah? Could you list 3 facts about it--either biblical or extrabiblical? You obviously think God was wrong for destroying them. But it's already been established on this thread that certain instances of killing are justified. So let's start by examining Sodom and Gomorrah. Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 So you seem like a pretty level headed follower of God...are you careful of what you pray for knowing that God may be overwhelmed and Do you think it's reckless for people to pray for everything that pops into their little heads? "Dear God If this girl goes out with me I'll never sin again..." "Dear God if he makes this field goal, I promise I'll go to church NEXT Sunday" I don't think a Supreme Being who is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient, who is not limited to time or space, can be overwhelmed. I think the prayers you listed above are funny but God isn't a trading machine where you promise this and He gives you that. Prayer in asking for things is simply asking, like how I asked my Dad for money as a kid. Now, my Dad expected me to live by his and Mom's rules (no being mean to my sisters, no temper tantrums, no jumping on the bed, no lying, no cheating in school, no stealing, no talking balk, no sneaking out at night, no illegal drugs, no smoking, no drinking alcohol, no short skirts, no bikinis, no boys in the house without supervision, the list goes on and on) but he would give me money when I asked and needed it for something he thought was reasonable. As you can see, my parents were very strict, but when I asked them for something they thought was reasonable, they freely gave it. For Christians, God is our Heavenly Father. Although many times He says "no" (not audibly but through obvious lack of intervention) and other times He says "wait", He does take care of His children. However, many times He allows His children to suffer. For example, the Christians during the Roman times were persecuted for being Christians. They believed in God anyways and asked for things, and when the answer was no, they didn't have a hissy fit about it. Many died with dignity and child-like faith, trusting God knew why He didn't rescue them and believing an eternal life without pain awaited them. Now, in cases of healing, many Christians understand that God gives people growing wisdom in the medical field. That's why so many hospitals and medical organizations, such as the Red Cross, were started by Christians, especially Catholics. People need to use their brains too and do things, not just depend on God who made us to be able to use our brains. Since it is very likely that how humans treat the earth affects nature, then people do need to step up and use their God-given brains to take better care of the earth. We haven't been doing very well with that. It's like the oil spills in the oceans... people make a mess and other people strive to clean it up, while many animals and some people are negatively affected by the mess others have created. Fun fun Although I don't know if the drought is because of people in general not taking good care of the environment, it could have affected weather patterns. As it is, asking for rain doesn't need to have promises attached. God knows the future anyways so promising is pointless. It's the actual doing that counts, and God lets obedient people suffer as well as disobedient people. Actually, sometimes obedient people suffer more, like the Christians who suffered under Roman tyranny. Jesus says the following, which I think is interesting: "43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." Mat 5 TNIV - Introduction to the Sermon on the Mount - Bible Gateway Nature doesn't discriminate. It's simply allowed to go its course regardless of if people obey God or not. There are some exceptions, like Noah's flood and when Elijah asked God for a drought, but those are not the norm. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
madjac74 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 "43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." I've actually used this one. Although I called it "kill them with kindness". Even when they **** on your forehead, gently wipe it away and offer them some toilet paper next time or perhaps escort them to the nearest rest room. Anyhoo I have dealt with my share of persecution and it certainly does no good to get angry about it. Maybe Jesus is right sometimes 2 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 My opinion is that many non-believers want us to compromise on our presentation of Gods Word. To me being called level-headed is typically an insult from a non-believer. Not all the time. But it's usually a code phrase for watering down the Word so the world can accept it. Link to post Share on other sites
madjac74 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 My opinion is that many non-believers want us to compromise on our presentation of Gods Word. To me being called level-headed is typically an insult from a non-believer. Not all the time. But it's usually a code phrase for watering down the Word so the world can accept it. The reason I called her level headed is because she treats me with respect in explaining her beliefs and isn't so fanatical as to shove a bomb up my arse if I don't agree. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I've actually used this one. Although I called it "kill them with kindness". Even when they **** on your forehead, gently wipe it away and offer them some toilet paper next time or perhaps escort them to the nearest rest room. Anyhoo I have dealt with my share of persecution and it certainly does no good to get angry about it. Maybe Jesus is right sometimes I'm sorry you've been persecuted. It isn't any fun. I think Jesus is right. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
yessy21 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 wE ARE ALL GODS OF OUR OWN WORLD. you are either the worshiper or the worshipped. you answer your own prayers. you are the only one that can make it happen. your soul is an undiscribable energy. ive been reading on this since i was 11 years old. I wanted answers as to why my parents abandoned me and i wanted to know why i was being punished. and then i realized.... the past is out of my hands... but my future i can mold. if you really want something ... you own energy will create its path to it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 The reason I called her level headed is because she treats me with respect in explaining her beliefs and isn't so fanatical as to shove a bomb up my arse if I don't agree. Lol A bomb? Link to post Share on other sites
madjac74 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Lol A bomb? Dude you know what I mean but I am happy I held you to your all time shortest post! Booyah! Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) wE ARE ALL GODS OF OUR OWN WORLD. you are either the worshiper or the worshipped. you answer your own prayers. you are the only one that can make it happen. your soul is an undiscribable energy. ive been reading on this since i was 11 years old. I wanted answers as to why my parents abandoned me and i wanted to know why i was being punished. and then i realized.... the past is out of my hands... but my future i can mold. if you really want something ... you own energy will create its path to it. If I were god of my own world, I would make beautiful sparkling pegasus unicorns and make animals be able to talk and not eat other animals, and eliminate pain and suffering and diseases and old age in the world, and have hair that turned different colors depending on my whim and have lovely wings and give all people wings to eliminate the need for cars and annoying traffic and make the world to be a place much different than it is today... oh and flowers wouldn't die in this world in which I was "god" of and even though there'd be buildings, there'd be more gardens than buildings and there'd be 0 animal or people cruelty, and also I'd be queen of this world, naturally just sayin... iif I was a god of my own world, it'd be different than the one I'm living in, no offense whatsoever to God. (God knows this so I know He's big enough to handle my Lala Land, which is what my husband calls my fantasy of the ideal world.) Edited August 9, 2012 by BetheButterfly 1 Link to post Share on other sites
madjac74 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 If I were god of my own world, I would make beautiful sparkling pegasus unicorns and make animals be able to talk and not eat other animals, and eliminate pain and suffering and diseases and old age in the world, and have hair that turned different colors depending on my whim and have lovely wings and give all people wings to eliminate the need for cars and annoying traffic and make the world to be a place much different than it is today... oh and flowers wouldn't die in this world in which I was "god" of and even though there'd be buildings, there'd be more gardens than buildings and there'd be 0 animal or people cruelty, and also I'd be queen of this world, naturally just sayin... iif I was a god of my own world, it'd be different than the one I'm living in, no offense whatsoever to God. (God knows this so I know He's big enough to handle my Lala Land, which is what my husband calls my fantasy of the ideal world.) I seriously love this girl....well except for the part where I dont get to eat unicorns 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I seriously love this girl....well except for the part where I dont get to eat unicorns Yeah eating unicorns is a no-no in LaLa Land. You can fly with them though, with your own pair of wings! I would love that sigh. Can you believe Avatar is one of my fav movies because of the flying lizard-like creatures, the trees, and the ground that lights up at night, as well as the cool plants? I would also like to create beautiful flying lizards... Art and using one's creativity is so cool!!! Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 "Our Father knows what we need before we ask him, but he awaits our petition because the dignity of his children lies in their freedom." someone shared this on my FB page as part of a larger discourse on why we pray. And I think this is where it all begins: We humble ourselves when we pray, because we look past our instinctive "I can do it myself" reaction and willingly choose to petition the One who loves us best. Answers will vary, but that's okay, because the main thing is that we've reached out to connect in our relationship with God. except for the part where I dont get to eat unicorns ... heathen!!!! :laugh: 4 Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) "Our Father knows what we need before we ask him, but he awaits our petition because the dignity of his children lies in their freedom." someone shared this on my FB page as part of a larger discourse on why we pray. And I think this is where it all begins: We humble ourselves when we pray, because we look past our instinctive "I can do it myself" reaction and willingly choose to petition the One who loves us best. Answers will vary, but that's okay, because the main thing is that we've reached out to connect in our relationship with God. Agreed except for the part where I dont get to eat unicorns ... heathen!!!! :laugh:Not heathen! It's because he doesn't have a unicorn friend yet.. I don't either, but I imagined having a unicorn friend when I was little. I played with My Little Ponies with my sisters when I was young... ahh those were the days. I feel so old now lol. To Yessy21, "you are either the worshiper or the worshipped. you answer your own prayers. you are the only one that can make it happen. your soul is an undiscribable energy. ive been reading on this since i was 11 years old. I wanted answers as to why my parents abandoned me and i wanted to know why i was being punished. and then i realized.... the past is out of my hands... but my future i can mold. if you really want something ... you own energy will create its path to it." There are people who do not worship God or gods, though they might be dedicated to things like money or fame or work or family or combination. I'm not worshiped and I don't want to be worshiped, but it is true I worship God. I know I'm not God. If I were, there's a lot I would change about this world. That is maybe an indirect critique of God, but God isn't bothered by an imperfect little human who hasn't seen the big picture wanting there to be no pain or hurt or diseases in the world and wanting to create other species of animals. It is true that we can make a positive difference in our lives and other peoples' lives. We can help others and we can strive to make our realistic dreams come true. In that sense, people can most definitely answer their own prayers in a way. My LaLa Land is not realistic, at least not right now. It would be very interesting if somehow someday the earth actually became LaLa Land, but I don't foresee that happening at all. You know what Quankanne? I have often wondered if in Heaven, if God will allow people to create living beings, or create some sparkly unicorns with wings for me? Possibly, I won't even remember my desire for a real life unicorn friend. I know I'm not the only one with that desire though. I know my hubby wishes he could make one for me because the idea amuses him, but instead he just bought me a cute little unicorn stuffed animal which was so sweet. I think though that in Heaven, I will be so amazed by God that my ideas of wanting to create my LaLa Land will fly away... Back to Yessy21, I am sorry about the hurt you have experienced as a child. Parents are supposed to love and protect and nurture their children, and it's not your fault at all that they didn't. I am glad you are growing and find strength in what you believe. Edited August 9, 2012 by BetheButterfly Link to post Share on other sites
madjac74 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Even if I had a unicorn friend I'd stare at him and secretly want to slow roast him over an open pit. If he loved me, he would say "Yes Madjac but first let me season my skin with fresh herbs and spices...and then do your laundry and bring you a beer before you roast my unicorn arse and eat me with roasted potatoes" 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 If I were god, I don't think I'd be as merciful. I probably would have even destroyed me for some of the crap I've done. Link to post Share on other sites
madjac74 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 If I were god, I don't think I'd be as merciful. I probably would have even destroyed me for some of the crap I've done. Maybe he already knows you've done that to yourself... Just like I did. And like a good friend it's better to just be there for you rather than beat you up over what you did wrong. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) Anyway, back to my conversation with YellowShark. Here's some info about Sodom and Gomorrah that you might not have known: 1) Everyone is aware of the homosexuality and sodomy that went on, but may not realize the extent of it. Genesis records that there were orgies in the streets. The citizens were literally pounding down the doors of Lot's house to violate his daughters. They even wanted to violate the 2 angelic beings who were visiting Lot. The angels had to literally strike them blind as they broke the doors down. 2) The reason the 2 angels visited Sodom was to find out if the city was "as bad as they heard" from the heavens. This implies it was beyond just normal bad. And the angels concluded it was. Abraham actually pleaded on behalf of the city (much like you and I might have) and this is where God told him there wasn't even a single good person there. Edited August 9, 2012 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) Even if I had a unicorn friend I'd stare at him and secretly want to slow roast him over an open pit. If he loved me, he would say "Yes Madjac but first let me season my skin with fresh herbs and spices...and then do your laundry and bring you a beer before you roast my unicorn arse and eat me with roasted potatoes" You would eat your friend??? You sound like my husband lol. If I could and my family and my hubby would let me, I'd be a vegetarian! However, my hubby loves eating meat! I confess I actually like to eat lamb stew. I also love chicken enchiladas. I also enjoy spaghetti with meatballs (cow). I am such a hypocrite I know. Why does some meat have to taste so good? If I could make my ideal world, I would make meat taste so horrible nobody could stomach it... I regret to inform you however that you are not allowed to visit LaLa Land, because I must protect the unicorns. Hope you understand. I'm going to go eat now. I'm hungry for some reason,and no I'm not going to eat any meat... not right now. A peanut butter and honey sandwich on whole wheat bread is what I'm going to eat, or whole wheat and hummus. Decisions decisions. Edited August 9, 2012 by BetheButterfly Link to post Share on other sites
madjac74 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Anyway, back to my conversation with YellowShark. Here's some info about Sodom and Gomorrah that you might not have known: And how exactly do you know it? Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 And how exactly do you know it? Same way we know about the life and wars of Alexander the Great. Historic verification. But I will assume you won't accept biblical sources so here's some outside supporting evidence: Archaeologists have recently identified where Sodom and Gomorrah were. In addition they have found within the geological strata a layer of calcite over the entire area. Calcite is not found on earth, but only in meteorites. Link to post Share on other sites
Lostinlife4now Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Yes, I pray and have had prayers answered. I pray the rosary and the things of which I sent up to him for an intention have all been answered in a positive way! Thank you Jesus! 3 Link to post Share on other sites
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