i am about to cry, please read and advise

[Pyrannaste]

Sarah,

I was very sorry to hear it.

Your bf has acted an a**h***....sneaky, coward and totally dishonest behaviour, it sucks that you had to find it out like this.

I agree with murasaki's post.

please don't wait until he takes all the time he fancies to decide.... it would hurt like hell. Move out. possibly have him move out. Have him sleep on the couch.

Don't wait him, don't allow him to have his cake and eat it, don't make things easy and confortable for him.

If he eventually decides it is you he wants to be with, he'll try to get back together with you even if you moved miles away, and try to get your trust back.

[tattoomytoe]

well i want to know his opinion first, before i say anything to him. i asked him when he planned on telling me, seeing how it was monday when i founf out and he "made out" with her on thursday. as far as i know he kissed her. i have asked him other questions, but that is the only reply i have gotten today. i asked him last night when he was going to tell me, and what, nothing was said.

 

i do not know how he feels about me at all. i thought he loved me, but apparently he just has affection for me, which i do not know what that means, other than he cares cause he knows me BigF*ckingDeal! ....i really do not want to hear his excuses, yes we do live together, my mother said i can live with her, so i am not worried about that.

 

i asked him repeatedly what he would do if the tables were turned, he really didn't say either.

 

My gut feeling tells me he wants me to break it off with him so he will be spared that decision...but that is why i am not saying anything to him until he tells me something,....anything, i just do not know, ifeel like such a fool and an idiot. i do not even want to see him tonight.

 

then last night he went right on telling me about his day, and giving me kisses... i just kept crying. Which me crying is something VERY MAJOR, i never cry.

 

i just do not know what is what anymore, i thought i knew him and i thought he loved me.

 

it just makes me soo sick to my stomach.

[YellowLioness]

Wow, tatoomytoe... I ache for you, girl. I think people are right... you really should get out. You're a sweet person, don't let him string you along and make you cold. Pack up your pride and self respect, and end the relationship. You can decide what to do about living arrangements later. If you made a move to take control of the situation, you would feel somewhat better and less helpless. I hate to say this, but chances are Greg is not going to suddenly come around and realize that he loves you. His heart is already taken by whats-her-name.

 

Let yourself get angry. It helps to get over a**h***s.

 

 

Yellow

[YellowLioness]

p.s.

 

how can you let him still cuddle on you? I'd push him away...

[tattoomytoe]

i am trying to listen to all aspects of what's going on. and not make any rash decisions and not say anything i will regret.

[HokeyReligions]

I'm so sorry. If we are lucky enough to love, then we usually have to endure pain.

 

I went through something with my husband before we were married. He wanted to break up, but he didn't want to hurt my feelings (yeah, right) the reason he didn't want to hurt my feelings is because he didn't want to deal with me. He wanted everything quick and painless. His answer was to move out while my mother and I were out one day picking my Aunt up from the airport. We got back and all his stuff was gone. We talked and my husband had "affection" for me to. He was crying and touchy-feely because he thought a hug or cuddle would soften the blow and didn't realize that all it did was cause more pain and confusion. In our case there was no other person though to contend with and no feelings for others.

 

But maybe greg is just cowardly. You live together and he doesn't want to deal with tears and anger and hurt.

 

Get your stuff packed and ready to move. Things that you bought together -- sell them and split what you get for them. He wants this marrah girl now---and you deserve someone who wants you. I'm so sorry you are hurting.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by Olivia_19742004

Other than not being honest with her up front I don't really see what he did wrong. He has fallen for another woman. There's no comment of cheating. There's no comment of any harsh things said. He might not have told TMT because he wasn't sure. He wasn't sure if he really wanted to end a relationship that he was in for someone else. Maybe when she asked she really didn't have anything to worry about at the time. Maybe he wasn't aware that he had fallen for someone else.

 

You make it seem like he's an awful person because his heart has fallen for someone else. You make it seem like his inability to handle the situation is some black mark on his soul. He's living with a woman that he's been in a long-term relationship with and now suddenly he finds his heart is beating for someone else. I would move slowly if I were him, too.

 

We can't blame those we care about for not loving us. We can't hate them because their heart belongs to someone else. As long as they didn't abuse our trust or treat us poorly we can't damn them to eternity because they don't return the same feelings we do.

 

Why must we grasp so tightly onto love? Why must we squeeze it so much that we appear to suck the life out of it? Love while you can. Enjoy it. Cherish and remember it for the rest of your life so that one day when it's gone you will always be able to remember how good it was. How beautiful it was.

 

Love is not something you own.

 

If they were married, would your opinion change?

[meanon]

i am not going to make this decision for him, especially since it seems that he does not want to be with me anymore....but he has to tell me.

 

I think you have read the situation right, tattoo. I'm so sorry .

 

i thought i knew him and i thought he loved me.

 

You did know him and he did love you. He's changed. Don't let this sh*t and the fact that it is so hard to understand make you question yourself. You were right. Endings are awful and your bf is making a right mess of this one.

 

no crossroads to be forced on ourselves. no brakes when we can coast. not a

forced resolution crisis. lets let things find their own place. see ya soon,

 

That's a cop out, as is forcing you to make the decision. If you do not want to walk now then tell him to make a decision and to make it now. I know you shouldn't have to make the decision for him tattoo, he is a coward. Why not make it for you? Leave now, if he's made a mistake and he loves you he will know and you will too.

 

These are the worst of times but they will end. I know you are a survivor, tattoo. You'll be OK.

[brashgal]

It's very noble of you not to want to hurt him back but please protect yourself. You need to move out and leave him there on his own to think about what he's done, not stick around so if he decides he doesn't like Marrah that much after all he can come home to you.

 

I feel badly for you, this really sucks.

[Olivia_19742004]

If they were married, would your opinion change?

 

If he no longer loves her, he no longer loves her. It doesn't change things if he has a ring on his finger or not.

[CurlyIam]

I'm afraid Spockisn't talking about love, she's talking about giving up!

[Mr Spock]

No, I'm talking about love. I see so many people on this board being hypocritical when it comes to this sort of thing (NOT YOU Olivia....) I'm just curious why the majority of people aren't telling you to work it out, no matter what. If you were married, she would be the OW.

[Olivia_19742004]

I don't think she should walk away. I don't think she should do anything she doesn't want to do. If there is some love left in his heart then I think TMT needs to decide if she wants to pursue this and try and save it.

 

I just think it's unrealistic to expect someone to love you for the rest of your life and if one day they stop they're suddenly a bastard. It's like another post I read where the boyfriend realized he no longer loves his girlfriend and everyone started commenting on her wasting seven years of her life with him. How was it a waste? Seven years of a love filled relationship was waste? She was loved! And now that it's over she suddenly wasted her time? Why can't we appreciate the wonderful years we had together? Why does it have to be for eternity and if it isn't then it erases all the wonderful times we had with our loved ones?

 

It just seems to me that love has suddenly turned into something negative. That it's now something we use to control someone else. To own them and not something we share. It's not something that's beautiful anymore.

 

It's so sad sometimes. How all the beauty we experienced just disappears..

[CurlyIam]

Spock, this is not about the OW. I don't think it ever is about the OW. It'sabout keeping it clear, making it fair!

 

TMT:

 

I know you don't want to make this easy on him, but honey, how am I to say this: Girl, it's not about him, it's about you! He can be as happy as a puppy or as miserable as a worm, WHO CARES ?!?

 

It's about you not taking this kind of behaviour! About you not taking "I don't know", about you not taking him emotionally cheating you. Look into your heart: do you think he's man enough, even if he did realize he loved you, not her, to come back? He's not.

 

 

I also know a bit (much more than I need to or wish to) about giving in, about hoping, about being unsure... Sarah, you have to think and act for yourself. The minute he kissed that girl, he's out of the equation! Take it from a girl who has kissed other man while in a relationship. So cry all you can while making his suitcases! He has to go!

 

F*ck making it easy or hard! He's messing with your hear, your head, your life! And you are letting him! You are the only one guilty of this suffering. Think about this. The only way to end the hurt is to let him go. The sooner the leaving, the faster the healing!

 

What do you think?

[murasaki]

Originally posted by Olivia_19742004

I don't think she should walk away. I don't think she should do anything she doesn't want to do. If there is some love left in his heart then I think TMT needs to decide if she wants to pursue this and try and save it.

 

I just think it's unrealistic to expect someone to love you for the rest of your life and if one day they stop they're suddenly a bastard. It's like another post I read where the boyfriend realized he no longer loves his girlfriend and everyone started commenting on her wasting seven years of her life with him. How was it a waste? Seven years of a love filled relationship was waste? She was loved! And now that it's over she suddenly wasted her time? Why can't we appreciate the wonderful years we had together? Why does it have to be for eternity and if it isn't then it erases all the wonderful times we had with our loved ones?

 

It just seems to me that love has suddenly turned into something negative. That it's now something we use to control someone else. To own them and not something we share. It's not something that's beautiful anymore.

 

It's so sad sometimes. How all the beauty we experienced just disappears..

 

Perhaps I've missed the point you're trying to make Olivia, but I think that you're misreading what other people on this thread have been saying: it's not that he no longer loves her that makes her boyfriend a jerk, it's the way he has handled it. Lying low and refusing to admit there's a problem because that would interrupt your cushy little life is dishonest and immature and cowardly. And yes, it's something lots of people do, so Sarah's boyfriend isn't an unprecedented monster -- he's just behaving like a jerk. OK, so he's not the most self-aware person and didn't really appreciate the fact that his feelings for Sarah were changing. The minute he started feeling something for someone else the light bulb should have come on, and he should have sorted out his feelings for Sarah before allowing himself to develop a blossoming romance with another woman. That would have been the decent thing to do. And he shouldn't have told his buddy Ryan, as he had to have known it would go up on the webpage and Sarah would hear about it. And now he shouldn't be jerking her around, giving her hope that maybe this is just a passing phase.

 

If Sarah had known for the last couple of months that things weren't so great with her boyfriend, she would have had time to think about it herself. They could have talked about things, explored the problems and decided whether or not things could change for the better. She might not have liked what he was saying and feeling, she might not have wanted the relationship to end, but she wouldn't feel betrayed and stunned. There are kind, thoughtful ways to break up with someone, and there are selfish, weasley ways to break up with someone. Waiting until you have an escape route from the relationship is cowardly. "Gosh, I'm sorry, I realize I just don't love you anymore because I love her now. Don't know how that happened, it just did! I still think you're great though." That's never the whole story, but in presenting his changed feelings as a fait accompli, Greg denied Sarah the truth about his emotions. They didn't change overnight -- he just didn't have the wherewithal or decency to communicate with her. The person who has disrespected the love they once shared is Greg, not Sarah.

[Olivia_19742004]

Maybe I just have a more forgiving nature but I don't think making a mistake makes someone a jerk. The way I see it is TMT's boyfriend met someone he had a connection with. He didn't intend to have this connection. He didn't go looking for someone. It just happened. He found himself wanting to spend time with her and wanting to be around her and he started to realize that his feelings for TMT have changed.

 

When he realized this he confided in his friend Ryan and I don't necessarily think he knew it would be posted on Ryan's web page. Maybe when he confided in Ryan he expressed he didn't know how to handle the situation because he didn't want to create emotional distress in the house. Maybe when he confided in Ryan he wasn't sure what he wanted to do because he now realized the person he has been living with may not be the one he finds himself thinking of. It can be quite as shocking to the one realizing this as it is to the other person in the relationship.

 

Maybe it's just me and I don't see the bad in everyone right away. I see a lot of confused people in the world that don't know how to handle every situation. They don't know the right way to do things and when their heart confuses things they make mistakes.

 

Maybe I'm completely wrong and he is a bastard. But when TMT stated he hugged her and said he was sorry and asked her if she thought they were meant to be I didn't see a bastard. I saw a confused person that isn't sure where is heart is taking him.

[joseph]

Hey nice posts murasaki, you hit the nail on the head! And stole the words right out of my mouth..but thats okay.

Hopefully Olivia can understand your freshly stated point.. and realize that we realize that love does come to an end, and when it does; it must be dealt with accordingly.

Im not raggin on ya 'Liv, just see our point also.

[Olivia_19742004]

At this point I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree We could probably debate this for days.

[Mr Spock]

Does no one remember the quote "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned?"

[murasaki]

Originally posted by Olivia_19742004

Maybe I just have a more forgiving nature but I don't think making a mistake makes someone a jerk. The way I see it is TMT's boyfriend met someone he had a connection with. He didn't intend to have this connection. He didn't go looking for someone. It just happened. He found himself wanting to spend time with her and wanting to be around her and he started to realize that his feelings for TMT have changed.

 

Has he asked for forgiveness? Moreover, meeting someone with whom you have a connection doesn't mean you have to fall for them -- people make choices. At a minimum, this guy chose to go out with Marrah when just a couple of days before Sarah had quizzed him about the text message from Marrah and had asked him if she had reason to be concerned. And there were other judgement failures that I've already cited. I'm sorry but to overlook his dishonesty (to himself most of all perhaps) is not merely forgiving -- it's bending over backwards to put him in a good light.

 

When he realized this he confided in his friend Ryan and I don't necessarily think he knew it would be posted on Ryan's web page. Maybe when he confided in Ryan he expressed he didn't know how to handle the situation because he didn't want to create emotional distress in the house. Maybe when he confided in Ryan he wasn't sure what he wanted to do because he now realized the person he has been living with may not be the one he finds himself thinking of. It can be quite as shocking to the one realizing this as it is to the other person in the relationship.

 

So when you're confused and shocked you run right to the local gossip columnist and tell them before you even bother to tell the person most involved? Sure, maybe it was an "accident" that it ended up on the website, and maybe it was a "coincidence" that the aunt with whom Sarah is friends saw the message in the "five minutes" it was up. It's possible.

 

Maybe it's just me and I don't see the bad in everyone right away. I see a lot of confused people in the world that don't know how to handle every situation. They don't know the right way to do things and when their heart confuses things they make mistakes.

 

Yes, everyone makes mistakes, and no that doesn't make them bad. But adults have to take responsibility for their mistakes, instead of just compounding them. "I'm so sorry I didn't realize that my feelings for you had changed, but I've fallen in love with someone else, completely from out of the blue. I know this is hurtful for you to hear and I want to make this as smooth and easy for you as possible." That would be taking responsibility. Not, "no, you're imagining things, there's nothing between me and Marrah. ...Yeah, I'm going out tonight with my buddy to see a band. No, I don't think anyone else will be there, not that I know of anyway ... Oh, you saw the website, man, everyone must have been logged on right when Ryan put that up, sorry about that. I don't know what to say. Who knows what will happen. Yeah, I did go to that show with Marrah and we ended up making out, but I didn't plan it to happen I swear. It just did! And I didn't tell you the truth about her coming along because you admitted that you were jealous of her, you kind of forced me to lie a bit there, heh heh. But I have so much affection for you."

 

Sarah is the one posting about her pain & her confusion. I don't see the point in trying to defend Greg. Whether or not he is at heart a bad guy is beside the point. What matters is that right now his behavior is hurtful to Sarah. She needs to protect herself as much as she can. Who knows for how much longer Greg will be operating in a mental and/or emotional fog? Should Sarah just wait around, taking further hits, in a miserable limbo while Greg takes his good old time figuring out what he wants?

 

This may well be the result of lack of thought, lack of self-awareness, and just general human error. Entirely possible. Greg's errors. Up to Greg to fix them if and how he chooses. I have a lot of compassion and empathy for people, and I know how they can get themselves in fixes -- it's happened to me more than once! But I'm not going to advise a woman who's hurting like Sarah is that she ought to stand by her man -- especially since he's given her every indication that he is no longer her man.

 

Maybe I'm completely wrong and he is a bastard. But when TMT stated he hugged her and said he was sorry and asked her if she thought they were meant to be I didn't see a bastard. I saw a confused person that isn't sure where is heart is taking him.

 

And you could be right. But it seems to me like the most important thing for Sarah to do is to get herself as far away from this amiguous crap as she can. As you pointed out when you first posted on this thread, you can't command someone to love you. If Greg is confused, he needs to step back and figure things out. Sending mixed signals to someone he has already greatly hurt is not kind. He needs to get a grip and see that, romantic as his dilemma might seem (romantic if you like angst, that is), he should be thinking about other people and the effect his indecisiveness is having on them. Namely, on Sarah. But he's not doing that. Yet another mistake. How many mistakes should Sarah tolerate before she accepts that Greg isn't going to act in her best interests?

 

If he wakes up and starts taking responsibility for his actions, he'll cease to be a jerk in my book

[Olivia_19742004]

Like I said we could debate this all night, Mura. I see it differently than you do. I'm not trying to convince you to see it my way, I'm just giving a different perspective. You can give a rebuttal for everything I say but in the end it's just our opinion. It really doesn't mean all that much because TMT is the one that has to decide what to do. TMT is the only one that can determine what type of person he is and what her role will be. We're all just on the outside looking in and in no way can we see the entire picture. I don't look into his eyes. TMT does. That's where her answer is.

[joseph]

LOL! glad to see you put a stop to the bleeding, we could go on all night..but let's not...if TMT needs help lets provide it; rather than our debates on her board, hehe, although it is rather amusing.

[Cupcake]

I've read a lot of post where married couples go through this sort of thing. Because of the commitment, it is worth it for them to "work" things out. Unfortunately, it's a lot more difficult to just walk out of a marriage. Certainly, many marriages have failed because the problems just couldn't be solved or changed.

 

TMT already tried to "work" things out when she questioned her man about the text message from the OW. He lied to her. If he meant any good to her, he would have expressed his confusion to her. There's no trouble in saying you're confused to someone you love. Certainly saying he's confused would have come across better than coming straight out and telling her that he has been making out with the OW now that she discovered the truth on her own.

 

She already gave him the benefit of the doubt that Ms Olivia keeps suggesting. In fact, TMT is still giving him that benefit by "waiting" for him to make a choice. But he just responds all causal as though it's no big deal. Even now, he's just stringing her along. May be he does not want to break up with TMT. May be he likes having his cake and eating it too. Either way, he's taking advantage of her OBVIOUS true love.

 

Love is honest. Love is not selfish or blind. Clearly, Greg doesn't love TMT. He may have loved her at some point. He's not a bad person for not loving her now. But he is a bad person for the way that he is handling it. One of them needs to be mature and end the misery because they are NOT married. And I don't see why TNT would even consider marrying him right now. He needs to figure out what he wants. And she needs to get away from him while he's doing that because her standing back, waiting, and tolerating him F*cking other women is going to destroy her self-esteem.

 

There is nothing to forgive. Greg isn't sorry for being with the OW. He's only sorry for hurting her.

[RoboHobo]

TMT, I'm sorry your thread has turn into more of a debate than a support for you, but I know that everyone here is only trying to decide what is best for you. People are all different and have different ways of dealing with problems, this is one of the most wonderful aspects of humanity. What everyone seems to agree to is that some sort of change must happen soon.

 

The problem is that he doesn't seem willing to make a decision here. It's understandable, he's probably confused and hurting too. Right now you need to put yourself first. If you allow yourself to stay in your current situation you are going to completely fall apart. Waiting in limbo, as someone put it, is a very apt description. You need to get out of it, things will never get better if you don't. You must confront him soon, if not immediately. If he still doesn't make a decision then you make one. He needs space right now to clear his head and gather his thoughts and emotions. To be honest so do you. Seeing him so often is going to make you both very sentimental which is a beautiful drug that clouds the mind.

 

Please don't misinterpret what I'm saying. He isn't a bad person, but he hasn't been treating you the way you deserve to be treated. Maybe you will end up staying together eventually, and maybe not. Either choice is fine. It's hard and painful of course, but it'll fine because a choice has been made. Don't let yourself be fooled either, the problem isn't the other person it's Greg's head. Either which way he is going to have to sort that out for himself before he can have a successful relationship.

 

In the meantime, for what it's worth, everyone here is behind you 100 percent and will support you through it all the way.

[tattoomytoe]

well yesterday i told him was going to stay at my folks, he said he made the decision to stay with me. But later on he is still hiding the fact that he is getting messages from her.

 

the kiss was at her house, there where two other ladies from his work there, they were watching a movie and the other girls "took a walk" . Such BS.

 

anyways here is the email i sent him today:

 

hello my love. i have really been thinking about you, a lot, these past days. wondering what you are doing, where you are, what you are thinking.......and it all hurts my heart so much. i wish i could write you a happy note, but i cannot.

 

maybe i am the one who needs time away from us. maybe i need to gain some perspective. i cannot when i am with you. i am second guessing everything that you do and say to me. and the hardest, i guess is that i know you still talk to her, like her, more than likely still have" feelings" for her, you still want to spend time with her, you still work with her, god knows you probably still text her on the phone. and i cannot be there and be around and deal with all this ****ed up ****.

 

so i will get some things tonight, maybe i can sell you the big furniture and some stuff...i do not know yet, but you shouldn't have any trouble finding a roommate, you have lots of friends. i am going to leave the kitties there for a few days, if you could watch them, there litter is fairly clean, i took it out earlier this week.

 

i just am very confused.

 

try to have a good day....maybe she will be there and you two can talk.

 

tonight i will sleep elsewhere. he says it was a mistake he wants to work it out...i just cry every night. but he still wants to be friends with her and hang out with her. i just cannot handle that.

 

thanks everyone for all your help and kind wonderful words!