Starting over again, need MM to make a decision once and for all

[jolene2012]

I’m new to this forum. It’s so hard not being able to talkabout this to anyone and I think this might help me. I’m starting my life over again at age 42 andI need to either make this relationship work or stop wanting it to work and get

on with my life once and for all.

 

A little about my history so you can understand mebetter. Ever since I was a young girl, I’vewanted to be in a committed loving relationship where I have a man I can trustto love and protect me and in return I devote myself to loving him and makinghim happy. My mom destroyed my childhood when she got divorced and turned mylife upside down and I was determined to make a family for myself. My firstrelationship was with the XBF of a friend and we were close friends with agroup and alone, but he didn’t feel comfortable letting the group know we werea couple because his ex was also part of the group. I fell head over heels in love with him andafter knowing him a few years went from being sweet 16 and never been kissed toloosing my virginity in the same day. That relationship lasted on and off untilhe went away to college. The next guy Iloved I met senior year of HS. We datedfor 2 years and I became very close with his friends and family. I still keep in touch with them. At the time, my dad and 2nd wife were getting divorced and going through bankruptcy, I hadn’t seen my mom inyears and I was completely on my own at 18 working 2 jobs and trying to pay forcollege and my own apartment. I desperatelywanted BF to marry me and for us to have each other to depend on but he hadfinancial and career goals he wanted to accomplish first. He loved me, but not enough to marry me andtake care of me at that time. Then hedied in a car accident and I was devastated. I was hanging around with his/our friends drinking too much and lettingthem console me. It wasn’t unusual forme to spend an evening sitting on the couch with one of them having their armsaround me, all of us drinking and one or more of us crying. The older brother of one of our friends cameinto town and I met him for the first time and he joined our group. One nightafter everyone else left he went from holding me to kissing me and thingsspiraled out of control and I said no and he wouldn’t listen and we ended uphaving sex. To me, sex is a commitmentto a relationship and I’d just made that commitment to someone I didn’t know ifI even liked much less loved. Then Iended up pregnant. He said he waslooking for someone to marry so he could get custody of his son and he would marryme and take me back home with him and he had a good job and he’d support us andI could stay at home with the kids. Itseemed like the only reasonable option at the time. I wasn’t in love with him but I could begrateful to him for giving me that life and I couldn’t deal with the shame ofstaying in the small town where I lived and being alone and pregnant. So daysafter the wedding, there I was 1500 miles away from everyone I knew havingspent most of my savings on the Uhaul and I found out he’d lied about his job,there was no way he could afford to support me. I ended up working and supporting him while he sat around smoking potwith his friends and working less than full-time at a dead end cashier jobuntil finally I let him stay home with the kids because he was making less thandaycare cost. But I wasn’t willing toadmit I’d made a mistake and I was determined to give my baby a good life withboth parents. I had another baby, then aruptured tubal pregnancy, after which I had complications and ended up with ahysterectomy. By that time I wasdesperately unhappy and he agreed it was time to move back home and get awayfrom his friends and start over. So wemoved back home and he got a cashier job while I looked for work, but as soonas I found a job, he went back to ignoring me and the kids and spending all histime hanging out with looser druggie friends. By this time, I was open to the idea of divorcing him, but I was reallyscared about how I was going to make it work financially with paying fordaycare and I was worried about my prospects of meeting someone new. There I was 26 years old with 2 kids but notable to have any more kids. Right awaythat eliminates all the guys who don’t want to raise someone else’s kids andall the guys who want to have kids of their own and all the guys who don’t wantsomeone who’s been divorced. On top of it, I’m taller than average, so that eliminates all the guys who want to dateshorter women. And I’m reasonablyattractive, but not gorgeous, and I’m pleasant and can keep up my end of theconversation, but not particularly outgoing and all of my friends had movedaway, so I didn’t have people to socialize with.

 

That’s when I met my MM. He worked in the same office complex and we were involved in a projecttogether and became friends. He’s 12years older than I am. He had beenfriends with his wife since they were children and they married in their early20’s after his parents died and helped raise his younger siblings. They had two kids together, but after the 2nd one was born he realized that he cares about her and respects her as the motherof his children, but he’s not in love with her. He left her briefly for another woman a few years before I met him, butthis OW wanted him to move out of state with her and her kids and leave his kids behind and his wife was trying to keep him from seeing the kids and tryingto turn them against him. He had an unstable childhood that scarred him and his brothers and sisters had all been divorcedand he was really conflicted about getting divorced. If he did then he was no longer the goodexample, he was no better than them. And he couldn’t abandon his kids. So he went back to his wife and decided hewas going to throw himself into his work and his kids and as soon as they weregrown he was going to leave her and have his own life. When he met me he wasn’t looking for anotherrelationship, but we fell in love. Aftera few months, we crossed the line and made love. He told me later that he was terrified laterthat day to the point that he was shaking and throwing up. He didn’t want to leave his kids and he didn’twant to be in an affair, he just wanted everyone, including his wife, to leavehim alone and let him work until his kids were grown and he was free to do whathe wanted. He didn’t want to havefeelings for me and I complicated things. And I was shaken up too. Afterthat, I couldn’t let my husband touch me and he pushed and pushed until Iadmitted what was going on, then he went and found MM’s wife and told hereverything. She came to see me at workand she kept calling me there and stopping in and I was afraid I was going to losemy job, my boss was getting tired of the drama. She started calling the radio station and requesting cheating songs andputting all of our names on the air. My husband trashed the house and took offwith the kids and then came back and held me at gunpoint and raped me and endedup in jail. MM couldn’t deal with all ofthis and he broke things off with me. Hetold me that he couldn’t give me what I needed and I needed to find someone whocould and he would always be my friend but he couldn’t ask me to wait for him. Finally, I wrote his wife a letter and toldher that I was sorry and that I had met someone else and wanted to be happy anddidn’t want to break up her family and that I didn’t love her husband. It was a lie. I never stopped loving him and didn’t want to give him up. I felt guiltyfor making trouble for him but I wasn’t the cause of the breakdown in theirrelationship. I just wanted everyone tocalm down for the sake of the kids and for us. I did start dating someone else because he told me to and I was scaredto be alone with no friends or family to help me, but I couldn’t care about thenew guy as much as I loved MM. Datingsomeone new was a mistake. MM thought Iwasn’t serious about him. Writing thatletter was a mistake. I should have toldher that I love him and I’ll never stop loving him and there’s nothing she cando about it and let her build up her anger enough to leave him. I told him I wrote the letter and it was alie, but I don’t think he was paying attention because he didn’t remember it later.

 

So MM and finally got back to being close friends who wanteach other but don’t act on it and I dated this other guy but he was verycontrolling and I ended up having to take a job out of state for a few monthsto be able to break up with him. When Icame back, I told MM this is it. I don’twant to be with anyone else but him and he needs to figure out what he’s goingto do about it. So he started spendingmore time with me. At this point, he wasfull into working 2 jobs – a very demanding day job 8-10 hrs/day M-F plus hisown business in the evenings/weekends 4-6 hrs/day during the week and most ofthe weekend. But he’d come by and see me2 mornings/ wk while the kids were sleeping and we’d occasionally eat lunchtogether and he’d call me on his drive home. We talked every day and got to know my kids (introduced as a friend) andhe would find time to help me if something broke at the house or my car diedand I was stranded and he stood by my side at my grandma’s funeral. This went on for a few years and we weregetting closer and closer. Finally, hesaid he was ready to be together. His kids were in HS and old enough to decidewho they wanted to live with. I toldeveryone I knew. My mom, my friends,everyone who had told me that I was stupid and bad for being with him and he’dnever leave her for me, I told them that he did love me and they were wrong. He rented a room at one of those long-termmotels and we were in the room before he was going to go tell her and he waspacing and really scared. His nervousnessterrified me. He wanted to make lovebefore he went and I said no, I’ll be waiting when you get back, but I couldn’tbear if you made love to me then went home and didn’t leave her. STUPID STUPID STUPID. He went and told her.She showed him the letter. He didn’tremember that I told him it was a lie and he started doubting me and told herhe’d give it one more try to work things out. He was really angry with me and told me that he’s not leaving right now,he’s going to go to marriage counseling with her before he decides what to do andnot to call him for at least a month because he won’t take my calls and not toshow up at my work because he’ll never speak to me again if I do.

 

I wanted to kill myself, but if I was gone there would benobody I could trust to raise my kids, so I spent 2 days in bed medicated, thenI went to a counselor and poured everything out. When I went to set up a 2nd appointment he said he wouldn’t take me on as a patient. I decided that loving someone that much was just too dangerous and Ineeded to break things off completely and find someone who was available andwilling to marry me and take care of me and in return I’ll love him and begrateful. I had burned my bridges with everyoneI knew so I was totally alone. I started dating but when I told men about my history, they left me. One guy seemed ok with it, but in the end hesaid he loved being with me but he didn’t miss me when I’m gone and he wasafraid to trust me that I’m too much like his ex. Then I dated a couple of guys who startedbeing controlling and yelling at me before we were even together 2 weeks. Finally 6 months after the breakup with MM Imet a nice guy. I was never stronglyattracted to him, but he really wanted to be with me and I liked him a lot as afriend. He had a nice family, nicefriends, his kids were nice, he was a good father to them. Shortly after I met him, I was laid off myjob and I was very vulnerable. Hestarted bringing groceries for us to make dinner when he came to visit and tookcare of my car. We talked about movingin together. Then he had a legal problemwhere he got behind on his child support and had a verbal agreement with his exthat he’d catch up at the end of the busy season when his customers paid him,but the support collection unit had his bank accounts frozen and he was out ofbusiness during the busy season of his work. I had been planning to put a small addition on my tiny house and hadreceived a quote from a builder. We had talked about moving in together to savemoney and he was very handy (and so am I), so he told me that we could buildthe addition in a month or so while we were both out of work and he figured outthe cost would be less than the quote I received, but he also needed a garagefor his equipment and some other things then the house would be big enough forall 6 of us and we’d be a 2 income household when we were both back to work. Things quickly spiraled out of control and hekept changing the scope of the project and telling me we had to do things andwe needed other things and he was a BF doing me a favor not an employee, so Ididn’t feel like I could be as demanding as if I had hired someone, then hebrought his parents in to help and some of his friends, and this was going onand on for months. I was back to workand so was he, so now we were only doing this on nights and weekends and thewhole place was torn apart to the point that I couldn’t get it re-financedwithout finishing the project, he still had his place and was paying for thatand not contributing to my house, but I was out of money and almost out ofcredit and he’d turned it into something that I couldn’t afford on my own. I felt like my choices were to get married sohe’d be obligated to help me pay for this huge project he’d insisted oncreating or break up with someone who had been working on my house with hisfriends and relatives for 6 months and loose the house and declarebankruptcy. So we got married. And his relationship with my kidsdeteriorated. And he had some more joblosses. Then he convinced me to let himbuy a business and ran it into the ground. And I was the one with good credit so everything was in my name. After a couple of years I finally decided Ididn’t want to do this anymore. I careabout him, but I’m not in love with him and he wasn’t who I though he was whenwe started dating. But I was trapped.

 

So I went to see MM. Our no contact had only lasted a couple of months, but he was committedto keep me at arms length and talk to me on a regular basis, but not be alonetogether. I told him that I couldn’tdeal with my marriage anymore, I loved MM always had and always would and Ineeded his help to get away because I couldn’t figure out how I could do itwithout myself and my kids ending up homeless and without any credit to handleemergencies and a bankruptcy would be very dangerous for my career as afinancial analyst, plus I didn’t know how I could get my husband to physicallypack up all his stuff and leave, he had truckloads of stuff and unfinishedprojects that took over my whole property. MM said the counseling hadn’t worked out with his wife and they wereliving separate lives – him working and her with her mom and the kids andgrandchildren. They’d moved into a biggerhouse and her mom was now living with them too and the youngest was almostgrown. He left the house before she gotup in the AM and got home from working after she went to bed and they’d stoppedgoing on vacations. The only things theytalked about were the kids and the office work she did for his business andthey still slept together occasionally, but they didn’t do anything else as acouple. He said he wasn’t able to helpme at this time, but he still loved me and wanted to start our relationshipagain and get back to the point where he’s sure that us being together is theright thing to do, but we needed to do this for at least a year for him to besure. We went back to talking most everyday and we made love when he could get away, but not every week. I had a reallyhard time being intimate with my husband after that, but I knew I couldn’t letthings happen the way they did before, so I dug my fingernails into my handwhile we were in bed and did what I had to do. After a year or so, he said he was sure that he wanted us to betogether. He had been afraid that hisfeeling for me were just infatuation and that it would fade, but he’s neverfelt this way about anyone in his adult life (he said he remembers loving agirl as strongly as he loves me when he was in grade school, but not sincethen). He never felt this way about hiswife or any other girl he ever dated. Hesaid he was going to take steps to end his marriage, and then he wants to marryme but he needed to untangle their finances first. He said he needed to get her name off thebusiness and sell some real estate that they owned and get her to go out andget a job so he wouldn’t have to pay so much alimony (she had stopped workingto help babysit the grandchildren). He did work on these things but yearspassed. He finally got the business allin his name and her as a part-time employee on the payroll. He finally sold the one property. She dug in and refused to get a job, then shegot into a car accident shortly after her medical problems with her legs, backand joints got worse and he’s been paying hundreds of dollars/month in co-pays forher medical bills. She has an insuranceclaim, but she hasn’t been able to get doctors to assign fault to the accident,she most likely has osteo arthritis and the accident made it worse but didn’tcause it. But now she can’t go out andget a job and she hasn’t been approved for disability because after severalyears now she still hasn’t had a concensus on her diagnosis and she initially wasn’tapproved because she hadn’t worked enough quarters, so she’s working in hisbusiness at home on the phone/computer. He’s at the point where he really wants to leave, but feels like he’s aterrible person for leaving the mother of his children while she’s sick and inpain. Not to mention, he’s going toloose half of his assets and be required to pay a huge amount of alimony. He had planned on retiring at 55 this yearfrom his day job and just work in his buisness, but between the stock marketcrash and her illness, he’s not financially ready and if he divorces her whilehe’s still working, he’ll have to pay alimony based on his current income andso he may have to work another 10 years to pay alimony and he’s not sure if hecan physically keep up this pace. Hisparents and all of his older siblings died suddenly of natural causes (mostlyheart attacks) before the age of 60 and I’m afraid he’s killing himself withthe stress of all of this.

 

In the mean time, my life went to hell even more after Idecided I wanted to leave. My daughterdeveloped a serious medical condition and was in the hospital for a while. She recovered and the condition is undercontrol, but she had PTSD from the experience and went a bit out of control andended up pregnant by a looser who lied to her and put their child in danger. She’s stable now and has a beautiful child, fullcustody, a college degree and an entry level job with lots of upward potentialand a nice boyfriend who is good with her son but she’s needed lots of helpfrom me, financial support as well as moral support to get there. My son went into a spiral of depression afteran unrequited love relationship with a girl and committed suicide and I feellike if I had been able to provide a better family for him that wouldn’t havehappened. My father became disabled and was physically and financiallydependent on me for a while, but is finally mostly living independently. Last fall, I finally went to marriagecounseling with my husband and did not admit to the affair, but was honest withhim about all of the reasons I’m not in love with him. We started untangling our finances and soldthe house and bought another house in his name only. Last month, we had a fight over more hugeexpensive improvement projects he wants to spend money on, but it got methinking that I have a window of opportunity where I can leave and as long as I’mcareful with my money I can move into an apartment and be out of debt within 5years and start over and I need to take this opportunity before he gets me financiallytrapped for another 10 years. So I had afriend come and help me move my personal stuff out of the house while he was atwork one day and filed for divorce. I tookmost of the debt and gave him enough stuff and cash so he won’t try to go afterfor alimony and we’ve filed for divorce and he says he still wants to be friends.

 

A few months ago, MM said that this is it, by Fall he’sgoing to figure out how he can leave, he can’t take living like thisanymore. But then he started pullingback and wasn’t calling me every day and we hadn’t made love in 2 months and hetold me that he just doesn’t know what he’s going to do. He loves me and wants to be with me that’snot the issue, but his blood pressure is through the roof and he’s makingmistakes at work that could be physically dangerous and he’s so upset he can’tsleep. After a few weeks of that, I toldhim that I don’t want to keep living like this, but if he needs more time, thentake more time, but we have to decide this once and for all. It’s been 17 years now and we can’t keepliving like this. When I moved out I gotan apartment right around the corner from his work and he’s been coming to seeme at least once/week and calling me every day, and he helped me move somestuff, but he hasn’t made arrangements for taking a vacation day and usspending real time together, but I know it’s not that he’s spending time with her or someone else, it’s just that every minute of the day he’s busy.

 

So I don’t know what to do now. When I pressure him, he pulls back, but whenI pull back, he comes after me. I know Ishould just pull back and wait for him to come closer, but it’s so hard. I want him to get up earlier and come overevery day before work and leave his employees to work alone for a bit in theevening and let me fix him dinner and find a way to get away on the weekend,but the more I try to plan things and offer solutions to the problem, he says I’mpushing him and trying to control him and he gets upset. I’m trying to step back and look at this fromhis side and I can see how it would be really hard to leave someone who’s beena part of your life for 40+ years and loose the respect of your friends andchildren and give up probably a half million dollars in assets and have to workyears longer than you want to pay alimony to be with anyone. I don’t see how I could possibly be worththat. I know people will say, leave himand find someone else, but the thought of having to go out and find someoneelse is so depressing, I don’t know if I’m even capable of loving someone elseand every time I’ve done that in the past I get trapped in a relationship I don’twant to be in and end up depressed and hurting and damaging my relationshipwith MM.

 

I’m tempted to find a way to let his wife know we’re stilltogether and see if finding out for a 3rd time and knowing he’s beenin love with me for half the time they’ve been married is enough to make hertake the initiative and leave him, but I can’t think of how to do it withouthim finding out it was me who told her. If he found out I told her, I have nodoubt he’d break things off with me again, but I don’t know if it would beforever or if he’d get over being mad. I don’t think she’s in love with him, Ithink she enjoys the lifestyle he provides her and she’s made a life forherself that doesn’t include him very much.

Edited August 5, 2012 by jolene2012
text didn't past well from word

[whichwayisup]

He isn't going to leave his wife and kids for you. He is happy enough with it just being an affair.

 

Right now this whole situation is full of drama, pain and it's not healthy for you.. For so many reasons.

 

Look, you had a rough childhood, bad hurts etc., do you really want to be a part of the reason why his kids lose their security and home life with both of their parents? You know firsthand what it can do to a child from your own experiences..

 

End it and grieve the loss. After you heal and when the timing is right, you will find a single guy who can give you everything - Love, care, respect and most of all - A relationship you can be proud of, and be involved in every part of his life. This guy is married and his a family already. He isn't leaving..He's going to marriage counselling, trying to fix things and reconnect with his wife.

 

Get counselling to help you cope with this all.

[imperfectangel]

Honestly I couldn't read it all but I thi I it's clear this is not a healthy relationship if he wanted you he would be with you

 

Own your life decide what you want for you and go for it

 

No one is worth all this

[jolene2012]

He isn't going to leave his wife and kids for you. He is happy enough with it just being an affair.

 

Right now this whole situation is full of drama, pain and it's not healthy for you.. For so many reasons.

 

Look, you had a rough childhood, bad hurts etc., do you really want to be a part of the reason why his kids lose their security and home life with both of their parents? You know firsthand what it can do to a child from your own experiences..

 

End it and grieve the loss. After you heal and when the timing is right, you will find a single guy who can give you everything - Love, care, respect and most of all - A relationship you can be proud of, and be involved in every part of his life. This guy is married and his a family already. He isn't leaving..He's going to marriage counselling, trying to fix things and reconnect with his wife.

 

Get counselling to help you cope with this all.

The kids are all grown up now and the youngest is graduating from college. His grandchildren are small but they live with their parents and I don't think it's going to destroy their lives if grandpa gets divorced.

[jolene2012]

ROFL! And you believed that bullsh*t?

 

The guy folded like a deck of cards and agreed to go to marriage counseling because he didn't REALLY want to leave the wife he supposedly DOESN'T LOVE.

 

That "letter" story is NONSENSE. It's the most RIDICULOUS thing I've ever heard. I can't believe you fell for that hogwash.

 

 

Just keeping it real, here. You honestly think your parenting is better than anyone else's? A woman whose been sneaking around with a married man for YEARS and who wants to kill herself and ends up in bed for 2 days medicated is HARDLY Mother of the Year. Sorry. I thad to be said.

My kids were staying with relatives when this happened, they didn't know anything about it. I pulled it together before they came home. I may not be the best mother in the world, but I wasn't going to see them end up in foster care or with their dad's druggie welfare recipient relatives living in the projects. That was 11 years ago.

[jolene2012]

Jolene, your whole post is so very sad. Your whole adult life is full of dysfunctional relationships from picking the wrong men. Your man picker is broken, hon and your mm is not going to save you.

 

Jolene, I see a woman who doesn't value herself very much, that's not a dig, just a observation.

 

You are a strong woman, because you have survived a lot but yet you need to stop looking for some man to take care of you. You've got to take care and value yourself, love yourself more than you love him. You really need to break this pattern you have of picking bad men, learn to not need a man, learn what a healthy relationship is and learn that love is not what you've experienced so far.

 

Let your mm go, he is not going to leave and it wouldn't be good if he did, believe it, go back to therapy, find out why you keep picking **** for brains in these men. Be alone with yourself, work on you.

 

Stop wasting one more minute of your life on him, he is not the answer.

 

(BTW, paragraphs help.)

sorry for the paragrahs, this didn't post well copied from word.

 

I can't just walk away knowing he loves me and I love him and it's money and duty keeping us apart, I should be able to get past those things. It needs to either happen or end.

 

If I didn't believe he loved me, I'd be gone. I know he loves me, but I can also see how it's hard for him to give up hundreds of thousands of dollars and risk loosing the respect of his children. Knowing what I do about his older son, I think he'd understand, but I don't know about the younger one (well mid-20's not that young).

[jolene2012]

What is your motivation to tell her? So that she leaves and you can have him? I think it's important to decide how you think you'll feel about "winning" by default before you do it, because that is so filled with potential scenarios that could blow up in your face it isn't even funny.

 

She's forgiven him twice before right? So... why will this time be different?

 

If she does decide she's done and kicks him out... is that how you want him? Are you ok with knowing that it was only because she didn't give him an option that he came to you?

 

Or if she kicks him out and he doesn't come to you how will that feel?What if he's so pissed off that he never forgives you for it?

 

It could work out the way you want it too... but I think it's important for you to think of all the ways it could play out.

 

I'm not an advocate of telling the wife though, that's his place to do, not yours.

I don't necessarily want to tell her, I'd like to find a way for her to find out that we're back together without knowing that I was the one who caused her to find out. Then if she confonts me, I'm not going to lie about my feelings for him or my intentions towards him. I'm not sure if she'd leave him or not. The first time I think she stayed because the kids were young and she though I was going to be out of the picture and he'd be too scared to try again and her lifestlye would have taken a big hit without him, they were just starting to do well financially. The 2nd time, I think she was thinking that she'd stayed that long and the kids were in HS, might as well give him one last chance. I don't know if she'd go this time because there's the issue of how she's going to pay for her healthcare, but at least she'd know what's going on and he could be open about them really living separate lives.

 

If he knew I let her find out, that's a huge risk, I'm terrified he might never forgive me. I'm ok with having him come to me because she kicked him out rather than him getting up the nerve to leave her.

 

The motivation would be to just push action on this. He wants to do it, but he's scared. He's not a planner and he's a procrastinator, but when problems happen, he deals with them. This is really high stakes for him and I totally understand why he's scared. Honestly, I think it would be much better for him financially if he retires from his day job first, but he's worried about leaving that until he feels like he has enough money to still have a good retirement and take care of both of us. I know in my head that it would be better to let him have a couple more years to get things in order and wait until her health issues are resolved that she is either working or disabled and not in limbo. But emotionally, I'm having trouble with it.

[sad puppy]

He's never gonna leave - ever. You just said you'll give him "a few more years". So be it. You just committed to continue the affair. Problem solved. You'll be upset, unhappy, and miserable. Done.

 

Why are you even posting? If you willfully choose to live a lie, to be deluded about reality, then you choose the consequences.

[jolene2012]

jolene he may love you, he really might, but you are missing my main points here. Your mm is not the main problem here, your long history of dysfunctional relationships, your man picker being broken, your false belief that just having him will fix all that is broken and he will take care of you. You think because you have invested so many years, that you must have him, I get that, but he won't leave. Another thing, this is your life, you've allowed him to make the call all these years, and still you are leaving it up to him. What about you? Isn't it time YOU DECIDE what is best for you?

 

Love, dysfunctional love is not enough jolene, even if you get him, it won't be OK. You have been a victim all your life in relationships, but you've allowed it hon, you've got to figure out why. You can't have a healthy relationship with anyone until you address you, you are your greatest enemy right now. Please......think about this, think about you, take the focus off of him, just for long enough to give it some deep thought.

You're right, I don't know if he'll ever be able to bring himself to leave. I know he wants to be with me and if she wasn't there he would be, but unless she leaves or dies, I don't see him actually leaving while things are the way they are.

 

Once he retires from the day job and he's not running ragged 24/7 and he has the time to do the things he wants to do, I can see him leaving. But I don't know when that's going to be. It was supposed to be this year, but I'm not sure where things stand financially at this moment, I think it's at least a few years away. Then there's his health. He has high blood pressure and a family history of dying before 60. I'm scared we're running out of time and might never get to be together if we wait for things to be perfectly in order.

 

At this point, I'm not worried about him taking care of me. I can take care of myself financially and I'm willing to keep working to make up the money he has to pay out in alimony. I just want to be with him in whatever way I can. I know he's kind of ADD and it's hard for him to focus on our relationship when he has all of this other stuff going on, but I just want to be by his side. At home or working alongside him or whatever. I don't have any illusions that he's going to change his personality for me, I just want to be able to be near him.

 

Because when I'm with him things are ok. Even when he's mad at me, if I can just get him in the same room and get him to look into my eyes, he can't stay mad at me and I can't stay mad at him. There's something we have that I've never felt about anyone else and he says he hasn't either. I don't know how to describe it, but when we look into each other's eyes, everything is ok in that moment. It's like there's a string attaching us together and everything else fades away. Yes, we have incredible passion and even though we're both much older and heavier than we were 17 years ago, the passion keeps growing and not fading. But this connection is something in addition to and separate from passion. I can live without it, but those relationships have no meaning. I do it because I have to, not because I want to. I'm tired of walking away from him and trying to get into the relationship I'm "supposed" to have. I want to just be able to be with the man I love.

 

I'm even ok with just staying his mistress for a while if he could just cut back on working so we could have time together, but he's working so hard so that he can afford for us to be together, so I don't know.

[Athena]

MM is afraid of commitment to you. On the other hand he doesn't want to lose you. He is Okay with things as they are, he is just managing to cope with all the financial strains on him and expectations, and the bonus of having his secret woman on the side helps him cope, and also helps him punish his wife and keep her at a distance.

 

You have been through an awful lot of drama in your life and I am sorry for you. However, you have brought on a lot of this misery by continual bad choices. It is time to rethink your thinking because so far nothing good nor normal has ever come of it. If your long-term plan has always been to get MM for yourself, trust your Track Record of poor decision-making to figure out that THIS goal is likely to be a very bad choice too. Okay?

 

Most people do not go through half of the drama that you have through, do you know this? Most people lead relatively drama-free lives. If they make one or two or even three bad decisions and pay for these mistakes, they pretty soon figure out from their errors, and self-correct. You do not appear to see what your poor decision making leads you to. You have to begin with your thinking.

 

BTW, I have not ever heard of a counselor refuse to take on a patient, what was the reason for that? Are you suffering from bipolar or some other mental illness?

Most counselors see hope for their clients, but that counselor refused to get involved with you -- what was their line of thinking? They clearly saw something very, very wrong with your thinking and choices, something that signified (at least to the educated, experienced counselor) that you were not willing/able to mend your thinking.

 

You have the unfortunate talent for attracting disaster after disaster. To the point where it is shocking to a regular person. Most people do not take such huge gambles and consistently make such bad choices for themselves. Stop and think about all this for a moment, will you?

 

Why would you throw good money after bad? Why would you continue to chase a MM and pick loser after loser your entire adult life, just on a whim of your emotions?

You really need to go back to square one and begin to learn How To Make Decisions. Research this. I know there's a book called 10-10-10 by Suzy Welch, it is a clear straightforward decision-making process for reclaiming your life using three questions when faced with any dilemma: What are the consequences of my decision in 10 minutes? In 10 months? And in 10 years?

 

You have certain fears, goals, needs and desires which are hidden/damaged by your erratic decision-making process -- you have to focus on yourself and figure out yourself in order to live accordingly.

[jolene2012]

He's never gonna leave - ever. You just said you'll give him "a few more years". So be it. You just committed to continue the affair. Problem solved. You'll be upset, unhappy, and miserable. Done.

 

Why are you even posting? If you willfully choose to live a lie, to be deluded about reality, then you choose the consequences.

I'm posting because I'm trying to figure out if I should let this drift and give him space - and if so, how to do it - or if I should push the issue and force something to happen.

 

I'm not going to walk away from him unless he tells me that he doesn't love me and he loves her and wants to be with her. If I believed that, I'd be gone.

 

But I believe he does love me but there are all of these obsticles in the way. I'm a problem solver, I spend my professional life and my personal life, picking things apart and trying to fix them. People come to me for advice. Except him. When I try to get all of the details to solve the problem for him, he gets insulted that I'm implying that he's not capable or gets angry that I'm pushing him to do something that he's not ready to do yet. When I have a complicated problem, I think about all of the different pieces and bounce back and forth moving each piece forward until everything comes together at the same time. He works as hard as he can at one thing until it's done, then moves to the next item on the list. I try to keep telling him that while you're waiting for X to happen, you can be working on Y, then it'll all be done sooner, but then he gets mad and says he's working 80+ f-ing hours/week and dealing with everyone else's problems, he doesn't have time for this and hangs up on me.

[jolene2012]

MM is afraid of commitment to you. On the other hand he doesn't want to lose you. He is Okay with things as they are, he is just managing to cope with all the financial strains on him and expectations, and the bonus of having his secret woman on the side helps him cope, and also helps him punish his wife and keep her at a distance.

 

You have been through an awful lot of drama in your life and I am sorry for you. However, you have brought on a lot of this misery by continual bad choices. It is time to rethink your thinking because so far nothing good nor normal has ever come of it. If your long-term plan has always been to get MM for yourself, trust your Track Record of poor decision-making to figure out that THIS goal is likely to be a very bad choice too. Okay?

 

Most people do not go through half of the drama that you have through, do you know this? Most people lead relatively drama-free lives. If they make one or two or even three bad decisions and pay for these mistakes, they pretty soon figure out from their errors, and self-correct. You do not appear to see what your poor decision making leads you to. You have to begin with your thinking.

 

BTW, I have not ever heard of a counselor refuse to take on a patient, what was the reason for that? Are you suffering from bipolar or some other mental illness?

Most counselors see hope for their clients, but that counselor refused to get involved with you -- what was their line of thinking? They clearly saw something very, very wrong with your thinking and choices, something that signified (at least to the educated, experienced counselor) that you were not willing/able to mend your thinking.

 

You have the unfortunate talent for attracting disaster after disaster. To the point where it is shocking to a regular person. Most people do not take such huge gambles and consistently make such bad choices for themselves. Stop and think about all this for a moment, will you?

 

Why would you throw good money after bad? Why would you continue to chase a MM and pick loser after loser your entire adult life, just on a whim of your emotions?

You really need to go back to square one and begin to learn How To Make Decisions. Research this. I know there's a book called 10-10-10 by Suzy Welch, it is a clear straightforward decision-making process for reclaiming your life using three questions when faced with any dilemma: What are the consequences of my decision in 10 minutes? In 10 months? And in 10 years?

 

You have certain fears, goals, needs and desires which are hidden/damaged by your erratic decision-making process -- you have to focus on yourself and figure out yourself in order to live accordingly.

I don't know why the counselor wouldn't take me. He was a counselor that my kids had gone to after their dad kidnaped them. I answered his questions nonstop for the full hour plus, then he said time was up and I had to go and when I tried to schedule another appointment he wouldn't return my calls. I'm not bi-polar or anything like that. Depression runs in my family, and I occasionally need to take antidepressents when things are really bad, but I don't need them to function on a day-to-day basis.

 

I don't intentionally pick loosers. Men that I'm attracted to and really want never want me back and I end up settling for men who pick me and are nice to me and I trust them and believe what they say, then I get into a situation where I find out they've lied or misrepresented themselves, but by then I'm stuck and marriage seems the only way out. MM is different from the guys that have been willing to date me. He's very confident and successful and attractive and well respected.

[Mount]

I agree. Net (it might sound harsh), everyone is where he/she choose to be right now.

 

Jolene, so far in none of your posts are you acknowledging that there are issues within yourself that has caused you to seek out a life full of dysfunctional relationships, including this affair.

 

All your focus on him, whether you should wait longer for him to pick you or not. It's him, him, him.

 

Your mm and this affair is not your biggest problem, there are issues within yourself you need to address, but you are terribly shortsighted about your dysfunctional history and you seem hell bent on not even looking at it and continuing it. You've spent most of your adult life waiting on him, 17 years of your life is a long, long time, to keep going through men who hurt you, use you. You are allowing it, when does it stop?

[hermione08]

Whatever the reason, that guy shoudn't be a counselor. The least he could have done was to explain the reasons why he couldn't take you on and recommend another doctor.

Pathetic behaviour.

As for your MM, he clearly won't leave his wife. Are you sure you want to spend your life waiting for his wife to leave him or die, so that you can be together?

[Athena]

I don't intentionally pick losers. Men that I'm attracted to and really want never want me back and I end up settling

That's because men who are healthy, attractive, normal, balanced and sensible ALSO are attracted to the SAME type of person, and want nothing to do with high drama, erratic lifestyle, dangerous living, and crazy behaviors. If you want those type of sexy, attractive, healthy men, YOU HAVE TO BECOME THE SAME.

 

(...) for men who pick me and are nice to me and I trust them and believe what they say, then I get into a situation where I find out they've lied or misrepresented themselves, but by then I'm stuck and marriage seems the only way out.

Wow, so when you see men have been lying to you and misrepresenting themselves, you turn around and MARRY them AS A WAY OUT?!

 

MM is different from the guys that have been willing to date me. He's very confident and successful and attractive and well respected.

 

He's very successful and well-respected? It's all a facade... and now that explains to me WHY he wont divorce his wife and move on with you -- because he very much wants to keep that facade in place.

 

Anyway, you answered some of my questions, but you appear to have missed my main point -- you need to focus on changing your thinking and learning new skills in a healthy decision-making process. Do not think you can continue with your old goals and thinking in place, and get a happy outcome.

[alexandria35]

I agree with LadyGrey that you have let yourself be a victim in all of your relationships, but in a sense you were also a victimizer. You didn't really care about any of the other guys you have been with, you were just using them to get your emotional/financial needs met. I can't believe you actually married someone just to get renovataions done on your house.

 

Grow up and stop waiting for your happiness to come from a man. Find your own happiness and live the life you want right now. Your situation with the MM is lame and it's not going anywhere.

 

You say his wife has already found out about you twice but I have my doubts about the second time. That was when you were together in a motel and he went home to tell his wife he was leaving and then just stayed there right? I don't think she heard anything about you that time. I think he went home, maybe lamely tried to tell her he was thinking about leaving, she said lets go to marriage counselling and he said okay and your name never even entered the picture. Then he told you that bull crap story about some letter you had sent years ago. Who knows if his wife even received that letter, maybe he intercepted it when you sent it and he had it all along. You said he was incredibly stressed and nervous that day and I think he was just looking for any reason at all not to go through with the plan to leave his wife and family. He quite possibly didn't have any conversation with his wife that day at all? He just went home and thought up a reason to give you to not follow through.

 

He is not leaving. All that's happened over the last 17 years is that he got even more entangled and attached to his family. Both emotionally and financially. You say that his leaving won't destroy his grandchildrens lives and that's true but he's not leaving is he? Because he doesn't want to and he's not going to. First it was his kids, then her medical problems, now his medical problems. Next he will be telling you he can't leave because the dog has seperation anxiety. You know he's not leaving and that's why you have resorted to thinking about taking desperate measures like telling his family about your affair so the BW will kick him out. He doesn't want to leave. If his BW tried to kick him out, he would be on his knees begging for forgiveness and offering to take whatever actions are required to let him stay which would include going total no contact with you. Sounds like your relationship with him mostly consists of phonecalls and 1 or 2 hours a week of face to face time, yet you call this relationship serious? Sounds more like you give him a bit of stress relief from his day to day chores and when you ask for more he gets mad and hangs up on you.

 

Having to get another woman to dump your man so that you can have him all to yourself is a pretty pathetic way to get a man. Still I'm all for the truth coming out and everyone knowing what's what, so I say go ahead and tell on him.

[truthbetold]

I'm posting because I'm trying to figure out if I should let this drift and give him space - and if so, how to do it - or if I should push the issue and force something to happen.

 

I'm not going to walk away from him unless he tells me that he doesn't love me and he loves her and wants to be with her. If I believed that, I'd be gone.

 

But I believe he does love me but there are all of these obsticles in the way. I'm a problem solver, I spend my professional life and my personal life, picking things apart and trying to fix them. People come to me for advice. Except him. When I try to get all of the details to solve the problem for him, he gets insulted that I'm implying that he's not capable or gets angry that I'm pushing him to do something that he's not ready to do yet. When I have a complicated problem, I think about all of the different pieces and bounce back and forth moving each piece forward until everything comes together at the same time. He works as hard as he can at one thing until it's done, then moves to the next item on the list. I try to keep telling him that while you're waiting for X to happen, you can be working on Y, then it'll all be done sooner, but then he gets mad and says he's working 80+ f-ing hours/week and dealing with everyone else's problems, he doesn't have time for this and hangs up on me.

 

You claim to hear him but are you LISTENING to him? He's telling you he's not leaving. YOUR mind is twisting and turning all sorts of other pretty scenarios of the whys and how it can be fixed. HE doesn't want it to be fixed he's not leaving. It's clear to the rest of us bc we're not involved.

 

It's not clear to you bc you are spinning up what YOU WANT to hear, not what is ACTUALLY being said.

 

I agree with all the others. A man is not going to fix your problems. You said that you don't want to find someone else when you really want him. How about trying life WITHOUT a man for a while? Your story does read like monkey swinging from vine to vine, you just cannot be alone and that's not healthy. And the fact that you married these guys and DO NOT see that YOU made a bad situation WORSE? yeesh.

 

I get it, you're here to only find out if you should wait some more and give him space, or push for a decision. What you're failing to grasp is you cannot control another persons thoughts, actions you can only control yours. He already is doing what he wants (actions) of staying married. You're just refusing to listen and see that.

[Mount]

Why I am seeing here that it is the typical co-dependency symptom. The person that having co-dependency issue always needs outside drama to suppress her/his depression or low-self esteem...?:sick:

 

 

 

Originally Posted by jolene2012

I'm posting because I'm trying to figure out if I should let this drift and give him space - and if so, how to do it - or if I should push the issue and force something to happen.

 

I'm not going to walk away from him unless he tells me that he doesn't love me and he loves her and wants to be with her. If I believed that, I'd be gone.

 

But I believe he does love me but there are all of these obsticles in the way. I'm a problem solver, I spend my professional life and my personal life, picking things apart and trying to fix them. People come to me for advice. Except him. When I try to get all of the details to solve the problem for him, he gets insulted that I'm implying that he's not capable or gets angry that I'm pushing him to do something that he's not ready to do yet. When I have a complicated problem, I think about all of the different pieces and bounce back and forth moving each piece forward until everything comes together at the same time. He works as hard as he can at one thing until it's done, then moves to the next item on the list. I try to keep telling him that while you're waiting for X to happen, you can be working on Y, then it'll all be done sooner, but then he gets mad and says he's working 80+ f-ing hours/week and dealing with everyone else's problems, he doesn't have time for this and hangs up on me.

[Athena]

I'm not bi-polar or anything like that. Depression runs in my family, and I occasionally need to take antidepressents when things are really bad, but I don't need them to function on a day-to-day basis.

You may think you're not bipolar or anything like that, but I'd like to suggest you get checked out for this possibility.... especially since you DO suffer from 'occasional depression' which is a KEY part of bipolar, btw -- you have 'highs' and you have 'lows' (depression).

The highs are when you feel successful and strong and powerful, sexual, spend money, have your exciting life, and your lows are your occasional depressive episodes.

Your cycles may not run in hours or days, but in months and years. I don't know, but you sound way too dramatic and crazy living to be normal and regular. If you are found to be bipolar and get on mood-stabilizing drugs, you may find your disaster-type life settles on a more even keel.

 

Could you research bipolar? Could you book an appt with a psychiatrist? Clearly there is something VERY VERY WRONG with your life choices, I have to tell you honestly, that despite my knowing thousands of people in my life, I have NEVER heard of ANYONE with as many disasters in their life as YOU (kidnapping, rape under gunpoint, devastating marriages, affairs, losing home, child's suicide, etc etc). You can't see this because you cannot be objective; it's your life and all you know, but truly, from an outsiders opinion, you are a magnet for crazy living, and likely, it is mental illness of some kind. I don't say this to point an accusatory finger at you, but to try guide you into getting appropriate help.

 

Will you seek some type of medical professional opinion?

[EmptyHeartGirl]

I'm posting because I'm trying to figure out if I should let this drift and give him space - and if so, how to do it - or if I should push the issue and force something to happen.

 

I'm not going to walk away from him unless he tells me that he doesn't love me and he loves her and wants to be with her. If I believed that, I'd be gone.

 

But I believe he does love me but there are all of these obsticles in the way. I'm a problem solver, I spend my professional life and my personal life, picking things apart and trying to fix them. People come to me for advice. Except him. When I try to get all of the details to solve the problem for him, he gets insulted that I'm implying that he's not capable or gets angry that I'm pushing him to do something that he's not ready to do yet. When I have a complicated problem, I think about all of the different pieces and bounce back and forth moving each piece forward until everything comes together at the same time. He works as hard as he can at one thing until it's done, then moves to the next item on the list. I try to keep telling him that while you're waiting for X to happen, you can be working on Y, then it'll all be done sooner, but then he gets mad and says he's working 80+ f-ing hours/week and dealing with everyone else's problems, he doesn't have time for this and hangs up on me.

 

If this is the case then be prepared to continue to be the OW because he WON'T tell you those things at least not right now. I would suggest getting used to being his convenient option. Your life will revolve around him and when he has time for you. His wife will always be his priority, and if you think you can change this by forcing his hand you will only make it worse because he has and will choose HER.

[whichwayisup]

I'm not going to walk away from him unless he tells me that he doesn't love me and he loves her and wants to be with her. If I believed that, I'd be gone.

 

His actions are telling you what's what..

 

He is still married and he is back at home. Actions..speak louder than words.

[jolene2012]

I agree with LadyGrey that you have let yourself be a victim in all of your relationships, but in a sense you were also a victimizer. You didn't really care about any of the other guys you have been with, you were just using them to get your emotional/financial needs met. I can't believe you actually married someone just to get renovataions done on your house.

 

Grow up and stop waiting for your happiness to come from a man. Find your own happiness and live the life you want right now. Your situation with the MM is lame and it's not going anywhere.

 

You say his wife has already found out about you twice but I have my doubts about the second time. That was when you were together in a motel and he went home to tell his wife he was leaving and then just stayed there right? I don't think she heard anything about you that time. I think he went home, maybe lamely tried to tell her he was thinking about leaving, she said lets go to marriage counselling and he said okay and your name never even entered the picture. Then he told you that bull crap story about some letter you had sent years ago. Who knows if his wife even received that letter, maybe he intercepted it when you sent it and he had it all along. You said he was incredibly stressed and nervous that day and I think he was just looking for any reason at all not to go through with the plan to leave his wife and family. He quite possibly didn't have any conversation with his wife that day at all? He just went home and thought up a reason to give you to not follow through.

 

He is not leaving. All that's happened over the last 17 years is that he got even more entangled and attached to his family. Both emotionally and financially. You say that his leaving won't destroy his grandchildrens lives and that's true but he's not leaving is he? Because he doesn't want to and he's not going to. First it was his kids, then her medical problems, now his medical problems. Next he will be telling you he can't leave because the dog has seperation anxiety. You know he's not leaving and that's why you have resorted to thinking about taking desperate measures like telling his family about your affair so the BW will kick him out. He doesn't want to leave. If his BW tried to kick him out, he would be on his knees begging for forgiveness and offering to take whatever actions are required to let him stay which would include going total no contact with you. Sounds like your relationship with him mostly consists of phonecalls and 1 or 2 hours a week of face to face time, yet you call this relationship serious? Sounds more like you give him a bit of stress relief from his day to day chores and when you ask for more he gets mad and hangs up on you.

 

Having to get another woman to dump your man so that you can have him all to yourself is a pretty pathetic way to get a man. Still I'm all for the truth coming out and everyone knowing what's what, so I say go ahead and tell on him.

I didn't marry a guy to get renovations done on my house. I decided to settle for a relationship with someone I liked as a friend and thought would be a good partner and renovating my house was the best option for us to be able to live together. When things started spiraling out of control, I wanted to break things off but I couldn't because of the financial consequences and also because I had allowed him to do me the favor of working on my house even though he turned the project into far more than what I wanted and wouldn't stop. Once I accepted that gift from him, which turned out to be way more than I thought I was agreeing to, I was obligated to continue the relationship whether I wanted to or not until or unless he did something so terrible that it justified me breaking up with him. What kind of a person would I be to allow someone to do things for me and then change my mind and break up with him? It's not like I could give the gift back. I started daing him, he was nice to me and I though we could have a good life together so I committed to the relationship by sleeping with him then agreeing to move in with him. Once I make that commitment, I can't take it back until I've done everything I can to force it to work.

[jolene2012]

You may think you're not bipolar or anything like that, but I'd like to suggest you get checked out for this possibility.... especially since you DO suffer from 'occasional depression' which is a KEY part of bipolar, btw -- you have 'highs' and you have 'lows' (depression).

The highs are when you feel successful and strong and powerful, sexual, spend money, have your exciting life, and your lows are your occasional depressive episodes.

Your cycles may not run in hours or days, but in months and years. I don't know, but you sound way too dramatic and crazy living to be normal and regular. If you are found to be bipolar and get on mood-stabilizing drugs, you may find your disaster-type life settles on a more even keel.

 

Could you research bipolar? Could you book an appt with a psychiatrist? Clearly there is something VERY VERY WRONG with your life choices, I have to tell you honestly, that despite my knowing thousands of people in my life, I have NEVER heard of ANYONE with as many disasters in their life as YOU (kidnapping, rape under gunpoint, devastating marriages, affairs, losing home, child's suicide, etc etc). You can't see this because you cannot be objective; it's your life and all you know, but truly, from an outsiders opinion, you are a magnet for crazy living, and likely, it is mental illness of some kind. I don't say this to point an accusatory finger at you, but to try guide you into getting appropriate help.

 

Will you seek some type of medical professional opinion?

I saw another counselor privately when I did marriage counseling. I've known him for years, he was the next counselor who saw my kids after the last one stopped returning phone calls. He didn't think I was bi-polar, he thought that I was under an enormous amount of stress, that I was depressed because I was surpressing my anger instead of expressing it, that I have abandonment issues and that I'm not good at recognizing the subtext in what people say vs what they do and that I seem to be a magnet for men wanting me to take care of them.

 

Once I was able to get things organized to the point that I could finally leave my husband, it felt like a huge weight has been lifted off my chest, but now a few weeks have gone by and I feel like I've just jumped off a cliff. I don't want him and I think I'm better off without him emotionally and financially, but I'm scared. There's nobody out there who's responsible for me.

 

MM loves me, but he doesn't seem to feel the desire to protect me and worry about me and he doesn't want that from me and it's scary. He sympathizes with my problems but he doesn't step in and get involved and try to fix them. When I'm lonely or scared he doesn't drop everything and run over and try and make me feel better and I can't get him to do what I want him to do by crying. When I cry or beg him to do something, he's supposed to do it to prove that he loves me. I know he loves me, but when you love somebody, you're supposed to be in charge of taking care of them emotionally and when they're sad or scared it's the love's job to fix it, but he doesn't do that all of the time. And when he has problems he gets angry when I try to solve them. He tells me he's not like the guys I married he doesn't need me to take care of him, but it's a woman's job to take care of a man emotionally and make a good home for him and solve all of his problems and how can I show him how good I am at that when he won't let me. He loves me but he doesn't need me and that scares me because if he doesn't need me and doesn't want to take care of me then what motivation does he have to be with me?

[Athena]

I saw another counselor privately when I did marriage counseling. I've known him for years, he was the next counselor who saw my kids after the last one stopped returning phone calls. He didn't think I was bi-polar, he thought that I was under an enormous amount of stress, that I was depressed because I was surpressing my anger instead of expressing it, that I have abandonment issues and that I'm not good at recognizing the subtext in what people say vs what they do and that I seem to be a magnet for men wanting me to take care of them.

 

Big difference between a Counselor and a Psychiatrist!!! You need a medical professional, not a 'counselor' who can chat to you about things. You need a definitive medical rule-out or diagnosis. A counselor is NOT qualified to do this, you do realize this? It is out of their job scope! It's like telling me your great-aunt Sally said you're not bipolar, you're just stressed, etc etc.... go to a shrink!

[truthbetold]

*sigh you are NOT listening to anything anyone has said. I could go over your last two posts (btw YOU are responsible for you) it's scary how you turn over control of your life to men. (when your last H decided to remodel your house and you said it went further than YOU wanted, why didn't YOU speak up? All you would have had to say is um, this isn't what I was anticipating and I'm not going to be responsible for all of this)

 

However you keep repeating you KNOW he loves you. But then pretty MUCH everything that follows "should" be showing you he does NOT love you. He doesn't want you to care for him, he doesn't want to be responsible for you, heck he doesn't even want to be the shoulder you cry on. So why do YOU "think" he loves you? He sees on average of once a week, so he calls every day. You said he's not there when things are tough and doesn't want to be. So what in your mind is telling you there's love there?

 

Because if you say that when you're together everything just all melts away and there's no problems etc...that's not real lving that's fantasy. You're an occassional escape for him from what YOU are telling us, not anything I'm reading into. So again, what in the heck makes you so insistent that he loves you? Because I don't see it, I really, really don't.

 

You asked what the motivation is for him? NONE! That's not what you want to hear, I get that but it's the truth. He knows how much he'd be taking on to join your life, that's why he's staying put.

Edited August 5, 2012 by truthbetold