Starting over again, need MM to make a decision once and for all

[jolene2012]

You wish for people to just encourage you to keep settling? To keep changing yourself to please him more?

 

No way!!! He's a cake eater whos not leaving his W no matter what YOU CHANGE!

 

Agreeing with you isn't going to change your life for the better - please be real about how he's totally using you because YOU ALLOW HIM TO!

 

Stop ALLOWING it!

With all due respect, how do you know what he will or won't do?

 

And there seems to be pretty strong consensus that I need to change my behaviour towards and expectations from men. So if I need to change anyway, why not change to be better person for the man I already love? It might not help the situation, but I really don't think it could hurt it.

[2sunny]

You've settled long enough

 

You've waited long enough

 

 

Time to do contrary action - that's what brings different results. As long as you do things the same- nothings likely to ever change.

 

Start changing everything. Consider moving far away even.

[2sunny]

With all due respect, how do you know what he will or won't do?

 

And there seems to be pretty strong consensus that I need to change my behaviour towards and expectations from men. So if I need to change anyway, why not change to be better person for the man I already love? It might not help the situation, but I really don't think it could hurt it.

 

Because he's already married - and statistically speaking - he's not leaving he marriage.

[2sunny]

And for the record it's not a mans job to take care of you - that's YOUR job - YOU take care of YOU!

 

You sound like you are looking to use a man and want him to rescue you from yourself!

 

Do you even understand how unhealthy that is?

[truthbetold]

 

I think he's closer than he's ever been to actually leaving. His brother who was just a few years older dropped dead of a heart attack not long ago and it was a huge wake-up call. The whole money problem is still an issue, but it's not as much of an issue as it used to be. He's actually said a few times that he's resigned to the fact that she's getting half, it's the whole medical thing and her not being able to work he's still struggling with. He's totally fed up with his job, worse than I've ever seen him and he'll call me up and say "want to run away?" and I'll say, "of course" and he'll say, "God, I wish we could". He'll find a few minutes to see me, then when his work phone starts ringing he'll swear and say he wishes he didn't have to go. We'll be making love and he'll say, "I wish I could hold you like this forever" then he looks at me really earnestly and says "Soon, ok soon."

 

So he finds a "few" minutes to see you and that equates love. I feel sorry for you. Money is a huge issue if he's 55 and worried about money, he may "tell" you that he's resigned she's getting 1/2 but that's fantasy talk and probably to keep you from going off the rails (guys like that don't like when women give them grief about things so they learn what to say so they don't get grief). The bit about calling you up and saying run away....COMPLETE fantasy talk. That's what I mean about you not listening to what he's really saying and spinning your own fantasy.

 

But since that's not what you want to hear and you want to turn yourself into a pretzel for him. Okay say you become little pollyanna. Never complain, dote on him. Become light and breezy. and he still doesn't budge (hint: bc he never planned to) then what?

 

Honestly there's nothing you can do or say to change his mind. He's where he wants to be. Men are really simple creatures. All of them. Women try to complicate them, but men really do have basic needs. One of the major ones is they need to be needed so you're right about that and guess what? He sees and gets his wife needs him, you said that, he's not turning that towards you so that from your own words is what tells me he's not going anywhere regardless of how many hoops you jump and what you now do or don't do.

[jolene2012]

Well actually it might be. You trying to manipulate men into believing one thing about you when the opposite is true in order for them to take care of you???? What is that? If you are actually confident and self sufficient in other aspects of your life(and successful in your life)...then you can take care of yourself and do not need to be "taken care of". It seems as if you are on the prowl and you are using this time to self improve for the next catch instead of your empowerment.

I want to be taken care of in the sense that I want a man to feel the urge to protect me and keep me - and us and anyone in our family - safe. Physically. Financially. Emotionally.

 

To feel a responsibility to earn a decent living, not take unnecessary risk, think befoere he acts, worry about how his actions might affect me. To be concerned for my health and happiness and not expect me to be a full-time primary breadwinner and full-time homemaker and giesha on demand and life of the party all at the same time.

 

And I also would really like him to be standing by my side and saying nice things to me when life is going to hell. When I'm upset, it's his job to make me happy.

 

And don't want to wait alone in hospitals - as a family member or patient. I want to feel that i can trust that if I'm sick he'll make sure I'm take care of. I've had to have multiple abdominal surgeries and neither of my husbands stuck around and was an advocate for me makeing sure I my pain was being managed and making sure I had food prepared for me and didn't have to lift things after going home. I've done that for other family members, but I haven't had anyone do that for me.

[alexandria35]

I know ya'll think that you're telling me something I've not heard before and I'm suddenly going to say, gee, staying with him is a mistake, I'm going to forget about him and throw our relationship away and get a new one like it's as easy as buying a new pair of shoes.

 

If I wanted to hear that I'm stupid and wasting my time and live's just peachy without a man, I could have called my mother.

 

I was looking for support and feedback from other women who have been in relationships with men who were unhappily married that worked out successfully and constructive suggestions from men or women for how I can change my behavior to get the results I desire. I know I've been all over the board with him from needy and clingy to dormat to bitchy and demanding to pretending I don't care and want to move on and this needs to stop. I need to find a more effective way to communicate with him and demonstrate to him that I can be the confident and self-sufficient partner that he seems to want.

 

Ok well there are a few OW on this board who did get their MM in the end but they sure as heck didn't wait around for 17 years. I think at least one ended the affair for their own good and were completely prepared to move on without the MM. When the MM saw that they were not going to accept the OW role a moment longer they went into action. And I think even these OW would advise you to either be content in the affair or move on because it's just not healthy to live your life waiting on someone else. Live your life and make yourself happy regardless of what the MM is doing or not doing. Don't make him the center of your universe or build him up as your only ticket to happiness. I think that's what they would say but I could be wrong. Maybe one of them will come along and advise you. I don't think your plan of controlling your MM through your behavior is going to work. That's called manipulation and it doesn't usually pan out.

[truthbetold]

I want to be taken care of in the sense that I want a man to feel the urge to protect me and keep me - and us and anyone in our family - safe. Physically. Financially. Emotionally.

 

To feel a responsibility to earn a decent living, not take unnecessary risk, think befoere he acts, worry about how his actions might affect me. To be concerned for my health and happiness and not expect me to be a full-time primary breadwinner and full-time homemaker and giesha on demand and life of the party all at the same time.

 

And I also would really like him to be standing by my side and saying nice things to me when life is going to hell. When I'm upset, it's his job to make me happy.

 

And don't want to wait alone in hospitals - as a family member or patient. I want to feel that i can trust that if I'm sick he'll make sure I'm take care of. I've had to have multiple abdominal surgeries and neither of my husbands stuck around and was an advocate for me makeing sure I my pain was being managed and making sure I had food prepared for me and didn't have to lift things after going home. I've done that for other family members, but I haven't had anyone do that for me.

 

What??? It's his JOB?? Bent's right, sounds like you're just prowling to act like something you're not to trap someone yet again. BC I guarantee if you let that bit out that you EXPECT others to MAKE you happy etc....wow, just wow. NO MAN especially NOT THIS MAN is going to do that!

 

Why? because YOU said it yourself. He has ZERO desire to be there for you. To caretake, he's never done that for you. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK HE'S GOING TO NOW?? Shouting probably doesn't help someone deep in delusion but as you say, can't hurt right?

[Mount]

The way you handling your life, the way of your thinking --> (leading to) you interacting with people including husband, Bf, MM, whatever, you WILL NEVER get them to treat you the way you want to be treated.

 

Read your previous post yourself, you said " you want to be strong for your MM", that is so TYPICAL co-dependency, he does not need you to be strong for him and that is you self-willing useless thinking. You are self-director of your life movie, unfortunately it has been a tragical kind.

 

What you need to do is that - let them go, including MM...etc. Once you let them go, focusing on yourself, those postive people will come to you from their willness.

 

]I want to be taken care of in the sense that I want a man to feel the urge to protect me and keep me - and us and anyone in our family - safe. Physically. Financially. Emotionally.[/b]

 

To feel a responsibility to earn a decent living, not take unnecessary risk, think befoere he acts, worry about how his actions might affect me. To be concerned for my health and happiness and not expect me to be a full-time primary breadwinner and full-time homemaker and giesha on demand and life of the party all at the same time.

 

And I also would really like him to be standing by my side and saying nice things to me when life is going to hell. When I'm upset, it's his job to make me happy.

 

And don't want to wait alone in hospitals - as a family member or patient. I want to feel that i can trust that if I'm sick he'll make sure I'm take care of. I've had to have multiple abdominal surgeries and neither of my husbands stuck around and was an advocate for me makeing sure I my pain was being managed and making sure I had food prepared for me and didn't have to lift things after going home. I've done that for other family members, but I haven't had anyone do that for me.

[2sunny]

I want to be taken care of in the sense that I want a man to feel the urge to protect me and keep me - and us and anyone in our family - safe. Physically. Financially. Emotionally.

 

To feel a responsibility to earn a decent living, not take unnecessary risk, think befoere he acts, worry about how his actions might affect me. To be concerned for my health and happiness and not expect me to be a full-time primary breadwinner and full-time homemaker and giesha on demand and life of the party all at the same time.

 

And I also would really like him to be standing by my side and saying nice things to me when life is going to hell. When I'm upset, it's his job to make me happy.

 

And don't want to wait alone in hospitals - as a family member or patient. I want to feel that i can trust that if I'm sick he'll make sure I'm take care of. I've had to have multiple abdominal surgeries and neither of my husbands stuck around and was an advocate for me makeing sure I my pain was being managed and making sure I had food prepared for me and didn't have to lift things after going home. I've done that for other family members, but I haven't had anyone do that for me.

 

And that's why you've picked the wrong guy... He's already made those lifelong promises to a woman he KEEPS staying with.

 

His actions show he's staying married but stealing a few minutes every now and then to be with you.

 

His words tell you (his lies) that he's making empty promises so that you get the idea he will leave when he actually won't - it's designed to keep you "waiting" - which is actually working because you believe his words and not his actions.

 

When you want to tell what someone is really doing - trail heir ACTIONS not their words. He's still with his wife - that's what his actions show.

 

There's no motivating factor for him to D - he gets the security of his life he's always known - and a few minutes with you when he can squeeze you into his nusy schedule.

 

That wold totally suck!!! You deserve more! Never settle!!!

[Athena]

I want to be taken care of in the sense that I want a man to feel the urge to protect me and keep me - and us and anyone in our family - safe. Physically. Financially. Emotionally.

 

To feel a responsibility to earn a decent living, not take unnecessary risk, think befoere he acts, worry about how his actions might affect me. To be concerned for my health and happiness and not expect me to be a full-time primary breadwinner and full-time homemaker and giesha on demand and life of the party all at the same time.

 

And I also would really like him to be standing by my side and saying nice things to me when life is going to hell. When I'm upset, it's his job to make me happy.

 

And don't want to wait alone in hospitals - as a family member or patient. I want to feel that i can trust that if I'm sick he'll make sure I'm take care of. I've had to have multiple abdominal surgeries and neither of my husbands stuck around and was an advocate for me makeing sure I my pain was being managed and making sure I had food prepared for me and didn't have to lift things after going home. I've done that for other family members, but I haven't had anyone do that for me.

Well, is he capable of being ALL of this?

 

Does he think the same way as you do?

 

Does he WANT to do all this for you? Yes or no? Clearly your previous men did not, does this man?

[2sunny]

Sounds like you intend to use a man to have an easier life.

 

Whatever YOU want for yourself needs to come from YOU - not him.

 

He has his OWN responsibility to take care of HIM - it's not his job to provide you with what you should get from yourself.

[jolene2012]

I don't know if he's capable of that or if he wants that. Some, yes. All, probably not. I would like him to be, but I don't need him to be. But in order to give him up and be with another man, the new man would need to do all of that to win my love, not just commitment.

 

With him, I can be happy just to be able to share his life. I can't accept being the OW forever, eventually I need to be the one he comes home to at night, that's not negotiable, but I've struggled with this for a long time and when I compare being with someone else who can give me the life I'd like to have and do the things I want him to do or being with MM and just getting to love him and share the time he's willing to give me, all of that other stuff isn't worth giving up the man I love.

 

We haven't been in a continual affair for 17 years. We've been in love for 17 years. The last breakup was 11 years ago and instead of waiting for him to go through the motions of marriage counseling and trust that he would come back, I was so humiliated and angry that I had told everyone that it was finally happening and it didn't that I ran out and was determined I was going to find someone who was willing to marry me and I was going to be grateful to them and have the kind of relationship people keep telling me I need to find. The one who is loved, not the one who loves.

 

Part of the issue at that time was that my kids needed a father and I wanted us to be part of a family and we were running out of time. There are no time pressures at this point. I don't need him financially. I don't need him to help me raise a family, that's done. I don't have a house at this point and I can afford to hire someone to fix my car and the next house I buy. My daughter will be there for me if I get sick. This time around, I can stop demanding that he do things because I need him, it's just about wanting him.

 

For the last 10 years, we've both been married to other people and neither one of us has been able to have more than a few minutes at a time. The only free time I had was my lunch hour or if I could claim to have to run an errand on the way home. He doesn't get a free lunch hour, he's expected to stay at the project site supervising during that time, so seeing each other has been a logistical nightmare. MM didn't feel the need to step in and take care of me because he felt the guy I was married to should be doing that. I think also knowing that I had someone else took some of the pressure off of him to be there for me and when I was at the point where I couldn't leave my marriage without his help, he knew I was there waiting with no other choices and there was no pressure for him to act more quickly.

 

In the years that I was just waiting for MM and didn't have anyone else, he did step in and take care of me much more. He did things around the house, my kids knew him as a friend from work and he helped them with a couple of school projects, he stood by my side at my grandma's funeral, he called me every few hours when I was going through cricices, but he wasn't physically there.

 

I moved close to his work 3 weeks ago and filed the divorce papers 1 week ago. MM said he he figured my husband would be looking for me and checking up on me and having him find out about us while I was negotiating the settlement (how much I have to give him, not how much he has to give me) would be dangerous for me and he didn't want to start coming over much until that was all settled.

 

The situation we've been in for the last few weeks is different than ever before in our relationship. The things he's been saying more recently are different. A few weeks ago I told him I saw a guy from high school at my class reunion and I was excited about going to a party at his house and MM had this huge wave of jealousy which he's never displayed before. I was quick to reassure him that this party was a huge open invitation for all former classmates, friends and relatives and that my old classmate is married and I know and like his wife. But jealousy seems like a good sign.

 

I know him well enough to know that he's struggling with something and something is going to change soon, I'm just not sure what. MM's one activity outside work is a guy's outdoor club with guys he's known forever. He used to come back from their outings in a great mood, but lately he's pulling away from them and won't say anything positive about it. He used to look forward to going to visit his younger siblings every year, but he didn't go the last 2 years.

 

No, He's not poor and he's not going to be poor if he gives her half, but he's not going to be able to retire right away either and he's been working towards retirement at 55 for the last 25 years. He could have retired 6 months ago if he was staying with her, but he's still working.

[alexandria35]

I don't think anyone is going to be able to deter you from the path you are on. You have set yourself up to be unable to do anything else except pursue this affair. You will accept your MM as he is but any other guys will have to be perfect prince charmings and if they are not you will deem them a waste of time. So you are effectively closing the door on all other possibilities and you are narrowing in on this MM. You said early in this thread that you think his wife will have to die or leave herself in order for their marriage to end, so I just can't wrap my head around what you're doing, but you will do whatever it is you want to do.

 

Jealousy doesn't mean anything other than jealousy. It's not a sign of something else and it has nothing to do with love. I have seen several OW talk about their MM's insane jealousy and these MM still wouldn't leave their wives. They were just jealous guys. Probably got jealous over any guys hitting on their wives too. You are taking so little and trying so hard to twist it into so much. He had a moment of jealousy, doesn't enjoy a particular activity anymore and he's not going to visit his younger sibling so that must mean he is leaving his wife. Really?

 

I find it odd that you feel like you have more time to waste on this now that you are older and self sufficient. I was the the opposite. The older and stronger I got the less time I wanted to waste. You have had a lunch time affair with this guy for the past 10 years and you think he is going to walk away from his wife, family, and money for something that has been such a tiny small fraction of his life? I think what you said early on is true. The only way you're going to get this guy is if his wife finds out and ends the marriage herself.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Ok well there are a few OW on this board who did get their MM in the end but they sure as heck didn't wait around for 17 years.

 

Yes, and as you go on to mention and I did too, earlier: there are those who have found a way to be completely "happy" in their role as the other woman.

 

I don't know why those women aren't advising you.

 

I think you have exactly 2 choices:

 

1) stop complaining about the relationship you have chosen and learn how to be "happy" in it the way it is.

 

2) gtfo

[Mme. Chaucer]

I want to be taken care of in the sense that I want a man to feel the urge to protect me and keep me - and us and anyone in our family - safe. Physically. Financially. Emotionally.

 

To feel a responsibility to earn a decent living, not take unnecessary risk, think befoere he acts, worry about how his actions might affect me. To be concerned for my health and happiness and not expect me to be a full-time primary breadwinner and full-time homemaker and giesha on demand and life of the party all at the same time.

 

And I also would really like him to be standing by my side and saying nice things to me when life is going to hell. When I'm upset, it's his job to make me happy.

 

And don't want to wait alone in hospitals - as a family member or patient. I want to feel that i can trust that if I'm sick he'll make sure I'm take care of. I've had to have multiple abdominal surgeries and neither of my husbands stuck around and was an advocate for me makeing sure I my pain was being managed and making sure I had food prepared for me and didn't have to lift things after going home. I've done that for other family members, but I haven't had anyone do that for me.

 

Well, the man you've been wasting your time with is already doing all of this … for and with his wife. Do you really think he is going to suddenly abandon HER financially, emotionally, and physically, and leave HER to wait in hospitals alone after all of this time?

 

Even though he evidently has no discernible moral code, I doubt that And if he did … what kind of a man would that be?

 

You already said he stays married out of "duty." All the things you mention are part of that duty.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Often the reason I don't step in (as a happy OW) sometimes is because when I do, people like to try and convince me I'm wrong for being happy instead of focusing on the OP.

 

You can be happy in your relationship but you have to be ok with the limitations and content with the strengths of it.

 

I appreciate you stepping in.

 

I have my personal perspective about affairs, but my bottom line for everything pretty much always goes back to personal accountability, being true to ones innermost self as much as possible, and being honest with oneself and with those we love.

 

The OP is not even touching on any of these.

 

It is really sad.

 

OP, you need to turn your life around, IMO. It's not about the married man.

 

You're a GRANDMA.

 

What if you focussed on getting your life in order the way you'd like it to be - in a way that would be possible for YOU to accomplish without needing someone else to make it all happen?

 

What do you think that would look like?

 

I mean, independent of ANY relationship with ANY man. Just you, what you do, who you are, how you spend your time?

[alexandria35]

Often the reason I don't step in (as a happy OW) sometimes is because when I do, people like to try and convince me I'm wrong for being happy instead of focusing on the OP.

 

You can be happy in your relationship but you have to be ok with the limitations and content with the strengths of it.

The OP doesn't sound like she is... so I have a hard time advising her to be happy with what she DOESN'T want, because that wouldn't be supportive either.

 

I think she needs to decide what she wants, and what is her "line in the sand" and what exactly it is she needs from him, then if she's getting it, and it works for her then that's fantastic. If she doesn't, then it's time to reassess the situation and consider changes as needed.

 

Mostly I agree with you (I have a hard time calling an affair fantasitc...lol) as this poster has expressed that her ultimate goal is to have the MM leave his wife and be with her. She's not happy with the way things are but she is holding on in the hopes of being happy some day. I have seen most OW say the key to happiness as the OW is to enjoy the situation as it is in the moment without focussing to much on what the ultimate outcome will be. This poster is looking for advice from OW for what she can do to make him leave. I think everyone agrees that there is nothing she can do to manipulate him into leaving and that this shouldn't be her focus regardless of weather she's in the affair or not.

 

OP sorry for talking about you like you're not here but I think you should do some reading on these boards and see what all the OW have to say about their affairs. Some are happy with their affairs just the way they are, some are no longer in an affair because their MM did indeed leave for them. To the best of my knowledge nobody made their MM leave by stragedy. The closest I have seen is when the OW ends the affair and the MM comes running to them however even in that scenario the OW was truly done with the affair and moving on, she wasn't trying to force him to leave. MM can tell when they are being pushed and manipulated and it doesn't work. So like LFH says, you either have to find happiness as things stand right now or respect yourself enough to not accept that which is not making you happy.

[jolene2012]

What kind of man would he be if he DOESN'T leave her for me?

 

We broke vows to be together. This wasn't a drunken fling or a heat of the moment thing. We CHOSE to be together. He made love to me and that's a COMMITMENT to a relationship. This has to work out or he has to decide it was all a mistake and he loves her and wants to be with her.

 

I know he cares about his wife, but if he was in love with her, he couldn't be in love with me. If he was in love with her and committed to her but having sex with me with no intention of leaving her for me, then that makes him a horrible person.

 

I don't believe she's in love with him. The many times she talked to me, never once did she say she loves him or she can't live without him or he's her life or please don't take away my happiness. She said things like "take him if you want him but that house and those kids and all of the money he has is mine and if he leaves, I'll make him pay for it for the rest of his life." And, "his problem is that he's just too highly sexed, that's why he's with you, he just needs more than a person should expect".

 

It's sad to find the love of your life after you've made a commitment to someone else, but it happens sometimes. Sex without love and commitment is wrong. The minute he made love to me, his relationship with his wife and mine with my husband was over and ours began and the rest of this is just wading through all of the crap that has to be sorted out.

 

I just need to figure out how to get him to take action one way or another and to control myself and have faith and patience while I wait. If I had a friend I could talk to about this, I could call her when I had the urge to call him and I could vent about when I was scared or angry, but I can't tell my friends about it this time and it's really hard to deal with having a relationship that you can't talk to anyone about.

[jolene2012]

Being able to be with someone I love IS what I want in life.

 

Yes, there are things I want to accomplish. I want to design and build a house. That's my dream but if I'm living in it alone, what's the point. I have things that fill my time that I like to do, but those are just time fillers.

 

I HATE having a career and I would love to not have to go to work every day. Without someone else, my only option for achieving that is to save as much as possible for retirement, which I'm starting to work on, because I may never have someone willing to be with me.

 

If I could picture my ideal life it would be having a man to pour out all of my love and affection on every day and be able to stay home and keep a perfect house for him and make all his favorite foods so he would tell me I'm a good cook and please him in bed so he'd say I'm incredible and be his assistant in his business so he can think I'm helpful and clever.

[Mme. Chaucer]

What kind of man would he be if he DOESN'T leave her for me?

 

Exactly the kind of man he has consistantly proven himself to be, for SEVENTEEN YEARS!!! What more proof could you need?

 

We broke vows to be together.

 

Okay … so that proves that you both are the type of person who break vows. Maybe it proves weakness or lack of impulse control.

 

 

He made love to me and that's a COMMITMENT to a relationship.

 

When you write things like this, I sort of doubt that you're for real. He also "makes love" with his wife. Plus, he is MARRIED to her. I guess that "commitment to a relationship" might even trump yours.

 

In your own words:

 

When I moved out I gotan apartment right around the corner from his work and he’s been coming to seeme at least once/week and calling me every day, and he helped me move somestuff, but he hasn’t made arrangements for taking a vacation day and usspending real time together,

 

Spending an hour or two with you ONCE A WEEK???? And your idea of "real time together" would consist of A VACATION DAY??? Which he won't take???

 

Get real.

 

I know he cares about his wife, but if he was in love with her, he couldn't be in love with me. If he was in love with her and committed to her but having sex with me with no intention of leaving her for me, then that makes him a horrible person.

 

Nonsense. He might be a "terrible person," but more likely, he's just your basic, weak loser.

 

I don't believe she's in love with him. The many times she talked to me, never once did she say she loves him or she can't live without him or he's her life or please don't take away my happiness. She said things like "take him if you want him but that house and those kids and all of the money he has is mine and if he leaves, I'll make him pay for it for the rest of his life." And, "his problem is that he's just too highly sexed, that's why he's with you, he just needs more than a person should expect".

 

Really … you think that what the woman who is on the other corner of this sick and pathetic triangle is going to bare her heart … to YOU? I doubt it.

 

Sex without love and commitment is wrong. The minute he made love to me, his relationship with his wife and mine with my husband was over and ours began and the rest of this is just wading through all of the crap that has to be sorted out.

 

Evidently, you'll be spending your "golden years" wading through crap, just like you've spent the rest of your years. THAT is what's sad.

[SoleMate]

MM loves me, but he doesn't seem to feel the desire to protect me and worry about me and he doesn't want that from me and it's scary.....When I'm lonely or scared he doesn't drop everything and run over and try and make me feel better and I can't get him to do what I want him to do by crying. When I cry or beg him to do something, he's supposed to do it to prove that he loves me. I know he loves me, but when you love somebody, you're supposed to be in charge of taking care of them emotionally and when they're sad or scared it's the love's job to fix it, but he doesn't do that all of the time......

Jolene, just in this one little snippet, we see many examples of thinking that has us all very concerned for you and trying to help you. Your understanding of the facts is completely wrong, the way we see it, and we're getting our info from you!

 

1) MM doesn't love you in any meaningful way. A man who truly loved you would do whatever it takes to get you in front of a competent psychiatrist. He would also not keep you trapped in a harmful A for 17 years. A's are bad for OW generally, but this A is even worse for you than is typical as it has allowed you to dodge meaningful treatment for your serious issues and kept your focus on affair drama instead of your own mental health, well-being of your children, and life choices, all of which DESPERATELY need serious work.

 

2) No, it is not you lover's job to notice that you're sad and then fix it. The primary owner for managing and repairing your emotions and your life is YOU.

 

3) Whatever you need from anyone, such as MM, it is not healthy to use the pattern of crying to express your needs. If you were in an acceptable relationship with a decent person, you should be able to use words and reasoning to honestly tell him what you need, knowing that an honest and loving partner will do his best to fulfill your reasonable requests. It's not totally clear how the "cry to (attempt to) meet needs" pattern developed, but now that it clearly exists, it is a problem which YOU must address.

 

And BTW, don't wait for MM to "make his choice". He's already made it, long ago. The real question is, when will you acknowledge it?

 

Jolene, please listen to the many caring people who have posted to this thread. Please.

[Mount]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

 

It may sound impolite, I have to say there has something extremely wrong with the thinking of OP, and sadly it is neither fixable or changable.

 

If people did not know the OP is already at very mature age, they would think the current post was written by a 13, 14 years old teenage, too naive to be true or supposed to be exist.

 

 

What kind of man would he be if he DOESN'T leave her for me?

 

We broke vows to be together. This wasn't a drunken fling or a heat of the moment thing. We CHOSE to be together. He made love to me and that's a COMMITMENT to a relationship. This has to work out or he has to decide it was all a mistake and he loves her and wants to be with her.

 

I know he cares about his wife, but if he was in love with her, he couldn't be in love with me. If he was in love with her and committed to her but having sex with me with no intention of leaving her for me, then that makes him a horrible person.

 

I don't believe she's in love with him. The many times she talked to me, never once did she say she loves him or she can't live without him or he's her life or please don't take away my happiness. She said things like "take him if you want him but that house and those kids and all of the money he has is mine and if he leaves, I'll make him pay for it for the rest of his life." And, "his problem is that he's just too highly sexed, that's why he's with you, he just needs more than a person should expect".

 

It's sad to find the love of your life after you've made a commitment to someone else, but it happens sometimes. Sex without love and commitment is wrong. The minute he made love to me, his relationship with his wife and mine with my husband was over and ours began and the rest of this is just wading through all of the crap that has to be sorted out.

 

I just need to figure out how to get him to take action one way or another and to control myself and have faith and patience while I wait. If I had a friend I could talk to about this, I could call her when I had the urge to call him and I could vent about when I was scared or angry, but I can't tell my friends about it this time and it's really hard to deal with having a relationship that you can't talk to anyone about.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

If people did not know the OP is already at very mature age, they would think the current post was written by a 13, 14 years old teenage, too naive to be true or supposed to be exist.

 

Maybe it's just a very "creative" grandma?

[Mount]

Are we having a tea party here or working on scratch book for our dream wedding day WHEN WE GROW UP?:o:o

 

Being able to be with someone I love IS what I want in life.

 

Yes, there are things I want to accomplish. I want to design and build a house. That's my dream but if I'm living in it alone, what's the point. I have things that fill my time that I like to do, but those are just time fillers.

 

I HATE having a career and I would love to not have to go to work every day. Without someone else, my only option for achieving that is to save as much as possible for retirement, which I'm starting to work on, because I may never have someone willing to be with me.

 

If I could picture my ideal life it would be having a man to pour out all of my love and affection on every day and be able to stay home and keep a perfect house for him and make all his favorite foods so he would tell me I'm a good cook and please him in bed so he'd say I'm incredible and be his assistant in his business so he can think I'm helpful and clever.