Starting over again, need MM to make a decision once and for all

[jolene2012]

Not to be mean, but maybe to wake you up. Didn't you say it's been 2 mos since you two were intimate? Didn't you also say the W told you he had a very high sex drive? I would guess you could draw your own conclusions. The truth is still there whether it's given thought or not. The only problem with that is with your mindset, when the truth does eventually come out you will seemingly be blindsided, but the truth has been there all along.

No, I didn't say it's been 2 months, I said that after he said he was ready to go then started getting panicky he pulled away from me and it was a period of 2 months then. Since I left, he's found time once/week.

 

Yes, she said he had a high sex drive. That was when he was 38 and was just doing occasional work outside of his job. He's 55 now and is working 80+ hours/week 6-7 days plus commuting nearly 2 hours/day, he's gained a bit of weight and has high blood pressure and is under an extreme amount of stress.

[jolene2012]

Separate bedrooms? No sex with his wife?

C'mon jolene. You cannot be this naive.

 

I'm sure the drugs were indeed "just for us." And I'll bet the farm that he had no ED in the marital bedroom . . . only in yours.

I don't have any reason to doubt about the separate bedrooms. It's a huge house. He gets up before dawn and gets home long after she goes to bed, she's having problems with back and leg pain where she was having days she couldn't walk.

 

Do I think they haven't had sex in years, no? Do I think they do on a regular basis, I doubt it, at least not when he sees me regularly, but it's irrelevant if he does or not. I have no control over that and that's not my focus.

 

Do I think he was faking it? Without going into too much detail, it's not possible for a man to fake really wanting to make love to a woman and spending lots of extra effort pleasing her while things for him are not progressing as fast as he'd like and with his high blood pressure, the dr said he was very limited in the frequency with which he could take the medication. Thankfully that problem has resolved itself. I love being with him and holding him even when things aren't as great as they used to be, but that's a really wonderful part of our relationship that I'd miss greatly if we couldn't have it.

[2sunny]

I wouldn't begin to believe a man working this much has time for all these OW.

 

And I don't believe he will make time for you in his future either.

 

Time to face reality.

 

He may not be working as much as he TELLS you - because he makes time for other women in his life... After all - he is a liar!

[Mount]

Stop dwelling on those unimportant things about HIM or HIS WIFE...etc, you have to be focus on yourself, you have to LOVE yourself. Even you are extremely damaged, you are not a garbage, and stop being this way.

 

Forget about LOVE, his love or your love, the 1st priority right now is you get yourself fixed. You are so damaged.

 

LET US DO THE MATH, you are currently 42 y/o, 42 - 17 = 25 y/o. It speaks all already.

 

I don't have any reason to doubt about the separate bedrooms. It's a huge house. He gets up before dawn and gets home long after she goes to bed, she's having problems with back and leg pain where she was having days she couldn't walk.

 

Do I think they haven't had sex in years, no? Do I think they do on a regular basis, I doubt it, at least not when he sees me regularly, but it's irrelevant if he does or not. I have no control over that and that's not my focus.

 

Do I think he was faking it? Without going into too much detail, it's not possible for a man to fake really wanting to make love to a woman and spending lots of extra effort pleasing her while things for him are not progressing as fast as he'd like and with his high blood pressure, the dr said he was very limited in the frequency with which he could take the medication. Thankfully that problem has resolved itself. I love being with him and holding him even when things aren't as great as they used to be, but that's a really wonderful part of our relationship that I'd miss greatly if we couldn't have it.

[jolene2012]

In light of her most recent posts, I think you are correct. I also think her MM knows there is something wacky going on here and that this makes it even more unlikely that he is ever going to leave his normal life and run away with a mentally unhealthy person. I also think her crazy is part of what keeps him hooked too. Having been romantically involved with a borerline myself I can attest to being addicted to the good side (the adulation, adoration, passion, affection) while simutaneoulsy being scared to death of the bad side (twisted thinking, emotional dysregulation and outbursts, messed up drama filled life and a host of other unhealthy behaviors and actions). I also understand why she believes she can manipulate the outcome she wants. My ex bf also thought along those lines and even begged me at times to tell him what I wanted him to be so that he could be that person and I wouldn't leave. I used to try to feebly explain that I had concerns about who he really was and that him trying to be someone else wasn't going to allievate my fears. A couple of times he also told me that he would rather have a relationship that was fake and love that was fake rather than have nobody at all and when we would break up he would immediately be out on dates with someone else because he was litterally terrified of being alone. Without external validation he would spiral into a pit of despair and worthlessness. Weirdest experience of my life. His love was obsessive and controlling yet shallow and fickle at the same time. He definitely pined more for people who rejected him and who were out of his reach and that was my hold on him for a long time too, although I didn't realize it at the time. I kept him at arms length most of the time and I would completely walk away from him when he was being nuts. This drove him crazy and made him believe that he wanted me and loved me more than he really did. Frankly, I don't think he loved me at all. He was so needy and unhealthy that he wasn't really capable of honest love.

 

OP nobody here can say for sure if you have borderline personality disorder but if you do then all of your posts here start to pull together and make sense because you do talk like a person with a personality disorder. Has anyone ever told you that before? Have you ever heard anyone mention the possibility of borderline personality disorder to you? There is a wealth of information about it on the internet and I would recommend that you look into it. I'm not saying that to be mean. If you do have bpd there are treatments for it and you can get better or at least improve somewhat to where you are having a normal life. Some symptoms of bpd inexplicably inprove with age and I suspect that although you have us flabbergasted by some of your posts here you are probably much better now than you were when you were younger. I have seen my exbf improve in some areas over the past ten years too because he has gotten older but he still has a long ways to go before he would be able to have a healthy relationship and he probably never will without professional help.

No, nobody ever mentioned that before. I have been to individual counseling when did marriage counseling. No he wasn't a psychiatrist, MD, but he was the head of the mental health unit at the hospital as well as having a part-time private practice.

 

I did some reading on that and took the self-assessment. Yes, I can see that I have a couple of indicators and a couple more might sort of apply but only in very specific situations not in general. No, I don't have the number of indicators required for a clinical diagnosis. I think anti-anxiety medication would actually be more appropriate than anti-depressents because except in really extreme situations it's rare for me to be upset for more than a few hours to the level that I feel like I need to take medication. Usually if I can get to sleep, I'm fine by the time I wake up and if I'm having trouble sleeping, a couple of benedryl or a glass of wine usually helps.

[truthbetold]

Okay another question. Are you going to be okay if this doesn't work out as planned with him? Because I think that's what everyone's concern here is. And understandable if you don't like what you're reading after all, you want to hear something else. But don't mistake people's bluntness for lack of care.

 

I think everyone here is genuinely concerned for you. We want you to see you have choices and to be strong on your own. Which you keep saying you don't want, you need a man. You don't seem to leave any room for thought other than you will manipulate this to work.

 

Are you going to be okay if this doesn't turn out the way you hoped?

[jolene2012]

I wouldn't begin to believe a man working this much has time for all these OW.

 

And I don't believe he will make time for you in his future either.

 

Time to face reality.

 

He may not be working as much as he TELLS you - because he makes time for other women in his life... After all - he is a liar!

What do you mean all these OW? Me and his wife? Neither of us gets much time. I know how much he works, I see him come and go and he has long-term contracts that require him to be specific places at specific times and days. I've driven by and dropped in. I can track him down when I need to.

[Mount]

WOWWWWWWWWWWWW:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

 

That is SUPER crazy, you SHOULD let him go (poor guy), you should let yourself go.

 

 

What do you mean all these OW? Me and his wife? Neither of us gets much time. I know how much he works, I see him come and go and he has long-term contracts that require him to be specific places at specific times and days. I've driven by and dropped in. I can track him down when I need to.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Mount

[frozensprouts]

op,

i read some of your posts ( i got through what i could...there were a lot of them), and one thing seems to really stand out to me...you seem to have had a "drama filled" life, but you seem to place the responsibility for that at the feet of everyone else...

 

this isn't to say that you should have been subject to the bad treatment, but sooner or later , the affect of the poor choices you have made do become your responsibility...after all, no one is responsible for you but yourself.

 

If your married guy keeps waffling back and forth, that's on him, not his wife , not his kids nor anyone else. he is an adult, and if he can't at like one, then that is on him. but you keep listening to him, making excuses for him and setting up convoluted scenarios in your head to explain his behavior and put him in a good light. At some point, it does start being on you that you refuse to pay attention to the signs that are right in your fae ( this has been going on not for a few months, but years)...

 

it also seems like you have had an awful lot of bad things in your life...why is that? It almost seems as if you just don't hear the things you don't want to hear...maybe you should start listening to that part of you that knows what's best for you, looks out for you and wants to protect you. Do you really want to look back on your life and have all this pain and heartache in it?

[jolene2012]

Okay another question. Are you going to be okay if this doesn't work out as planned with him? Because I think that's what everyone's concern here is. And understandable if you don't like what you're reading after all, you want to hear something else. But don't mistake people's bluntness for lack of care.

 

I think everyone here is genuinely concerned for you. We want you to see you have choices and to be strong on your own. Which you keep saying you don't want, you need a man. You don't seem to leave any room for thought other than you will manipulate this to work.

 

Are you going to be okay if this doesn't turn out the way you hoped?

Yes, I'll be ok. I don't have any choice but to be ok, I have people depending on me and nobody to depend on, it's all on me. But I'm not going to just give up and go away without fighting for this relationship. I would like for him to resolve it without everything blowing up, but if it does blow up, I'm going to be right in there screaming back and demanding answers, not meekly agreeing to go sit on a shelf and wait while they figure it out or agreeing to get on with my life then he starts missing me and here we go again.

 

He's never been able to go more than a month or so without needing to talk to me and he's never been able to stay mad at me and keep from letting me know he wants me for more than a few months. We've gone years without sex when I was committed to other relationships, but never long without him wanting me back. If another blow-up happens, I need to figure out a way to get through the waiting, then when he wants me back, there are conditions.

 

I've been thinking about it and I can't demand that he drop everything and leave right this minute, but sometime in the near future I need to tell him that if he wants this relationship to continue, I need him to commit to spending time with me X number of times/week and X number of times/month we need to do have a meal together and/or do something fun together other than talking or sex. I know he'll have to work at scheduling things so I'm not going to make it too demanding, but something he can manage to prove to me that he's serious.

 

His wife does the scheduling and billing for the jobs and he has to account for where he (and every other employee) is every single hour so she can charge it to the appropriate client so I know he can't come up with hours and hours of time, but he should be able to figure out how to carve out some time between jobs and I'm willing to go in and help work so he can get done quicker and be with me.

 

If he can't commit to that, then I need to somehow break it off and wait and see what happens. I can't wait forever, but I also can't go rushing into another relationship until I'm sure this is done for good and I get to the point where I'm actually open to falling in love with someone other than him rather than just wanting to be in a relationship.

 

If he does commit to seeing me more (which he did the last time I was alone). Then the next step would be setting a timeline and milestones for him leaving with a consultation with a lawyer and letting me see the resulting papers being on the list. And I need to find a way to be strong and wait out his periods of anxiety as he goes through the steps.

[jolene2012]

WOWWWWWWWWWWWW:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

 

That is SUPER crazy, you SHOULD let him go (poor guy), you should let yourself go.

What is crazy about dropping in to say hi when I know he's working? It's not like I'm stalking him. When he gets wrapped up and disappears, sometimes I go and drop off a flower from my garden or a dessert or snack or a note in his vehicle and he always calls me to thank me and say how I made his day. Or if he sees me and can break away, he'll come over and talk to me for a few minutes and kiss me. He says it makes him happy when I do that and he's never asked me not to.

[Mount]

Reality checking here - last 17 years it did not happen, next 71 years it won't happen. Just accept it and let him go, let the sickness /sick Love go. Set yourelf free.

 

Yes, I'll be ok. I don't have any choice but to be ok, I have people depending on me and nobody to depend on, it's all on me. But I'm not going to just give up and go away without fighting for this relationship. I would like for him to resolve it without everything blowing up, but if it does blow up, I'm going to be right in there screaming back and demanding answers, not meekly agreeing to go sit on a shelf and wait while they figure it out or agreeing to get on with my life then he starts missing me and here we go again.

 

He's never been able to go more than a month or so without needing to talk to me and he's never been able to stay mad at me and keep from letting me know he wants me for more than a few months. We've gone years without sex when I was committed to other relationships, but never long without him wanting me back. If another blow-up happens, I need to figure out a way to get through the waiting, then when he wants me back, there are conditions.

 

I've been thinking about it and I can't demand that he drop everything and leave right this minute, but sometime in the near future I need to tell him that if he wants this relationship to continue, I need him to commit to spending time with me X number of times/week and X number of times/month we need to do have a meal together and/or do something fun together other than talking or sex. I know he'll have to work at scheduling things so I'm not going to make it too demanding, but something he can manage to prove to me that he's serious.

 

His wife does the scheduling and billing for the jobs and he has to account for where he (and every other employee) is every single hour so she can charge it to the appropriate client so I know he can't come up with hours and hours of time, but he should be able to figure out how to carve out some time between jobs and I'm willing to go in and help work so he can get done quicker and be with me.

 

If he can't commit to that, then I need to somehow break it off and wait and see what happens. I can't wait forever, but I also can't go rushing into another relationship until I'm sure this is done for good and I get to the point where I'm actually open to falling in love with someone other than him rather than just wanting to be in a relationship.

 

If he does commit to seeing me more (which he did the last time I was alone). Then the next step would be setting a timeline and milestones for him leaving with a consultation with a lawyer and letting me see the resulting papers being on the list. And I need to find a way to be strong and wait out his periods of anxiety as he goes through the steps.

[jolene2012]

You do realize that most affairs start in the workplace don't you? And one of the cheating red flags is increased working hours. There are MANY affairs that take place during working hours only.

 

Regardless, surely you don't believe you're the only OW.

Of course I know that. I met him in the workplace and I've rarely been able to see him outside of when he's supposed to be working or on his way to or from work, which is most of his waking hours these days.

 

I don't have any reason to think that he's seeing anyone else but me (except for his wife of course). He's not a player. That's not his personality. And if he was trying to hide something from me he'd discourage me from going to his work or being in his vehicle alone or using his phone.

[Mme. Chaucer]

So, what kind of job do you have where you would be free to go "help him work" so he could get finished more quickly … and then have more than an hour a week to spend with you?

 

Why do you think that you, a woman who feels that she does not truly exist unless she "belongs" to and is 100% taken care of by a man, have spent all your youth and are preparing to spend "at least a couple more years" devoted to a man who has a few minutes of time and no energy or freedom for you?

[jolene2012]

Reality checking here - last 17 years it did not happen, next 71 years it won't happen. Just accept it and let him go, let the sickness /sick Love go. Set yourelf free.

Again I haven't been with him continuously for 17 years.

 

Episode one blew up just weeks after we had crossed the line from friendship and it was several years until we got back to an affair.

 

Episode 2 lasted a few years and it almost worked out but between me nagging him and having a panic attack and him thinking I was crazy, the whole letter shock when he was confronting his wife and me going off and trying to dull the pain by jumping into another relationship instead of standing my ground or waiting him out we were apart for years.

 

The latest episode started 6 years ago and it took a while for me to gain back his trust. I'm actually not sure if I really have it and that scares me. Sometimes he implied that he didn't believe I was really serious about leaving.

 

The new chapter of this latest episode - me actually being free and him needing to do something about it - started last month.

[Mme. Chaucer]

So. After all is said and done, you left your husband for this man and now you are prepared to give him approximately 2 years to leave his wife? Is that right?

 

So, what exactly is your question?

 

How are you planning to make the most of your life during this 2 years?

 

I mean, THIS IS YOUR LIFE, right now. It's not like it's going to "start" if this (sorry, I can't help myself - but you're the one who gave the lowdown) loser leaves his wife to be with you. Your life is happening.

[jolene2012]

So, what kind of job do you have where you would be free to go "help him work" so he could get finished more quickly … and then have more than an hour a week to spend with you?

 

Why do you think that you, a woman who feels that she does not truly exist unless she "belongs" to and is 100% taken care of by a man, have spent all your youth and are preparing to spend "at least a couple more years" devoted to a man who has a few minutes of time and no energy or freedom for you?

I work a mostly 8-5 job, flexible a bit if I need it to be. He works his salaried day job from between 6 and 7:30AM to between 4 and 5PM depending on workload. He also runs a business and has employees working all hours of the day at different sites, but the largest group works from around 4 to around 10 and he sometimes has a spot on the crew and sometimes is a floater for whoever called in that day. His wife does the scheduling and sends him a daily update of changes to the schedule. Then he also does some side projects for friends and former clients doing a different type of work, but that's sporadic and he schedules it himself. That's the work I can help him with evenings and weekends or with the 2nd job if he lets the crew go home early and I help him finish.

 

Why am I willing to do it? Because it won't always be this way. He's retiring from the day job, sooner rather than later, then he'll have a lot of free time and he plans to sell the business sooner or later and once we're together I'll be helping him with it and hopefully at some point quitting my job. He can't wait for retirement and he tells me he wants me to be the one with him once he has the time to relax and enjoy himself.

Edited August 7, 2012 by jolene2012

[jolene2012]

So. After all is said and done, you left your husband for this man and now you are prepared to give him approximately 2 years to leave his wife? Is that right?

 

So, what exactly is your question?

 

How are you planning to make the most of your life during this 2 years?

 

I mean, THIS IS YOUR LIFE, right now. It's not like it's going to "start" if this (sorry, I can't help myself - but you're the one who gave the lowdown) loser leaves his wife to be with you. Your life is happening.

I didn't exactly leave my husband for him. I left my husband and HOPE I will be able to be with him, but I left my husband because I reached the point quite a while ago that nothing he's capable of doing can make up for the things he did and didn't do in the past and I finally had a window of opportunity where I could leave without financially destroying both of us. If things don't work out with him, I'm not going back to my husband.

 

I'm going to spend the waiting time with my family and friends but also work on saving money, getting out of debt, possibly taking on some contract work to earn more money while I have the time, lose weight and do what I can to make myself as attractive as possible. Hopefully for him to enjoy, but also to put me in the best possible position if I have to start over.

[veryhappy]

You gave too many details about his schedule. Someone who knows him would recognize him easily. You need to keep in mind you have a real life to protect (and i hope your real name is not Jolene... )

 

Talk therapy with a psycologyst doesn't involve medication. You need to see a psychiatrist for medication. You can address it at the first therapy session that you don't want medication and if the person is not okay with it, look for someone else.

 

I believe you are settling for too little. When you talk about the number of times he'd see you is it the time you'd continue the affair until he can be with you(2 years)? If yes, start negotiating at the high end. He'll bring your numbers down anyway. What are you going to do if he doesn't follow through with the time commitment you ask of him?

[MissBee]

 

MM loves me, but he doesn't seem to feel the desire to protect me and worry about me and he doesn't want that from me and it's scary. He sympathizes with my problems but he doesn't step in and get involved and try to fix them. When I'm lonely or scared he doesn't drop everything and run over and try and make me feel better and I can't get him to do what I want him to do by crying. When I cry or beg him to do something, he's supposed to do it to prove that he loves me. I know he loves me, but when you love somebody, you're supposed to be in charge of taking care of them emotionally and when they're sad or scared it's the love's job to fix it, but he doesn't do that all of the time. And when he has problems he gets angry when I try to solve them. He tells me he's not like the guys I married he doesn't need me to take care of him, but it's a woman's job to take care of a man emotionally and make a good home for him and solve all of his problems and how can I show him how good I am at that when he won't let me. He loves me but he doesn't need me and that scares me because if he doesn't need me and doesn't want to take care of me then what motivation does he have to be with me?

 

Jolene,

 

Lots of people have given you advice, but I thought I'd comment on what I see here.

 

You have said in post after post that you "know" he loves you...you're saying here, you know he loves you but he doesn't protect you or worry about you and he doesn't drop everything to fix your problems. How do you know he loves you? How has he shown this? You've told all about how he HAS NOT. It seems like you're trying to convince yourself that he loves you.

 

The person who brought up codependency seems to have it right. In your mind love is fixing someone's problems and needing them to need you. That a dysfunctional form of love. Love isn't about solving people's problems and needing them to need you. It's not about crying to manipulate them into doing what you want. It isn't about constant "proving". It seems like you need A LOT of validation and that you're a bit emotionally manipulative and pushy. I'm really not trying to be rude to you btw...I'm just saying that based on what you're saying, where MM keeps getting angry because you keep pushing yourself on him to "fix" his problems and pretty much act like a mom to him and he tells you to not do it and you keep doing it. This isn't a healthy way of interacting. None of it.

 

As others have said, you need to work on your own issues, as no matter who you date it will be the SAME story. I don't think you come from a fulfilled, healthy, loving place where you can give and receive love in a drama-free nurturing way. It all seems to be means to an end, manipulation, control, dependency, traumatic bonding and just high levels of drama. MM has his own issues, no doubt, which is why he is with you as well...but it seems like even he can't really handle the level of neediness and manipulation you act out and expect. This is a train wreck and I don't think you know how to stop it. I think you need to reach out to a new counselor and really dive into working on yourself because otherwise....in the next coming years you will be reciting the same story.

 

Here's an excerpt on codependency. Perhaps you can recognize some of this in your relationship pattern

 

“Codependency, by definition, means making the relationship more important to you than you are to yourself,” she tells WebMD. “It’s kind of a weird phrase, and it doesn’t sound like it means a one-sided relationship. But that’s what it is. It means you’re trying to make the relationship work with someone else who’s not,” Tessina says.

 

.........

 

One partner may have trouble controlling other impulses, or simply not show much interest in the partnership.

 

The other partner - who is the codependent one - then works all-out to try to “fix” the problem.

 

“For example, if someone is with an alcoholic, that being the most typical case, taking care of that person or kowtowing to them solves something in their own personality. They have a hard time leaving it,” says Daniel Bochner, PhD, a psychologist in Savannah, Ga. and author of The Emotional Toolbox.“They get locked into trying to save their partner or the relationship over and over.”

 

Codependency can also arise when a partner is self-absorbed or uninterested, Tessina says. This may happen “in a relationship where only one of you is ever asking to get together or making moves toward the other one.”

 

“Probably the most significant theme is a sense of control. The other person plays the out-of-control person, and so they get to be the person who is in control and thus is respected,” Bochner tells WebMD.

 

“They can be the better person, the smarter person, the person who’s recognized as having it all together. They’re defining themselves as strong enough to deal with it, when actually they need to realize that maybe they should be taking care of themselves instead of proving their strength,” he says.

 

Simply being in a relationship - even one that’s not ideal - may also be comforting, Wetzler says. “A lot of times, people have low self-esteem and say, ‘I’m no good, no one would want me, and therefore I have to put up with this.’ These negative thoughts are very common, and they have a big impact on why people stay in relationships that may not be good for them.”

 

Signs of a Codependent Relationship

 

[MissBee]

Sigh... trust me. I have a close relative who knows much of this who is a psychiatrist. I also have a different relative who is bi-polar. I know I am not bi-polar. I'm also not crazy.

 

I know I've not had successful relationships with men and part of that stems from the fact that I didn't have parents who I could trust to take care of me and being responsible for taking care of other people and knowing that if I fail it's not just my life that's ruined but everyone else who's depending on me scares me so I look for a man to be my lover and my parent and my best friend and my savior and it seems that no matter how much I'm willing to give a guy or how hard I'm willing to work for him, men don't seem to want to take care of me and be everything to me and take responsiblility for my happiness.

 

I hope as you typed this and re-read you see the flawed logic in this. Adults shouldn't be looking for their partner to be their parent, to take care of their every single need and be responsible for their happiness.

 

Babies and kids are completely dependent on their parents and do need a parent to be their everything. However, they eventually grow up and in healthy families, they grow up to become self-sufficient adults who look for a partner who is on their level and not a adult-child to raise or one to raise them.

 

It makes sense based on the situation with your family why you're trying to act out how you thought your parents should have acted towards you with these men (who don't want it). You seem to be crying out for these men to be your father and mother and basically you're replaying that broken parent-child relationship hoping for a different outcome....hoping some knight in shining armor will rewrite it and make up for it. But unfortunately, as you've seen, it doesn't work that way. It's counterproductive and all you get is more and more of the same, so you keep emptying yourself into these men, hoping maybe they will magically do the same for you. Not gonna happen. You have to heal your childhood wounds so that you can grow up and have an adult relationship, where your partner is not a parental substitute. You have to be whole and responsible for your own happiness and then, you first off won't keep looking for a man to do something he cannot possibly do, and two you'll attract better men and a relationship that can add to your life. Right now you're using men and these relationships as some salvation...it's not working hon. Time for something new.

Edited August 7, 2012 by MissBee

[Mount]

Thank you:love::love: MBee.

 

To OP again, your life is so wrong, twisted, was destructive and is continuing to be destructive till THE END if you don't let the MM go, let the sickness love go. And stop mothering other men, any men, aren't you not aware it is kind of sickness, not something like you said " I need to be strong for him...." that is so Bullsh^t.

 

Jolene,

 

Lots of people have given you advice, but I thought I'd comment on what I see here.

 

You have said in post after post that you "know" he loves you...you're saying here, you know he loves you but he doesn't protect you or worry about you and he doesn't drop everything to fix your problems. How do you know he loves you? How has he shown this? You've told all about how he HAS NOT. It seems like you're trying to convince yourself that he loves you.

 

The person who brought up codependency seems to have it right. In your mind love is fixing someone's problems and needing them to need you. That a dysfunctional form of love. Love isn't about solving people's problems and needing them to need you. It's not about crying to manipulate them into doing what you want. It isn't about constant "proving". It seems like you need A LOT of validation and that you're a bit emotionally manipulative and pushy. I'm really not trying to be rude to you btw...I'm just saying that based on what you're saying, where MM keeps getting angry because you keep pushing yourself on him to "fix" his problems and pretty much act like a mom to him and he tells you to not do it and you keep doing it. This isn't a healthy way of interacting. None of it.

 

As others have said, you need to work on your own issues, as no matter who you date it will be the SAME story. I don't think you come from a fulfilled, healthy, loving place where you can give and receive love in a drama-free nurturing way. It all seems to be means to an end, manipulation, control, dependency, traumatic bonding and just high levels of drama. MM has his own issues, no doubt, which is why he is with you as well...but it seems like even he can't really handle the level of neediness and manipulation you act out and expect. This is a train wreck and I don't think you know how to stop it. I think you need to reach out to a new counselor and really dive into working on yourself because otherwise....in the next coming years you will be reciting the same story.

 

Here's an excerpt on codependency. Perhaps you can recognize some of this in your relationship pattern

[MissBee]

well no s***. I'm not confident or self-sufficient when it comes to love, but I think that's the kind of woman he wants and what people say nice guys who take care of women instead of expecting women to take care of them want.

If this doesn't work out and at some point i need to move on, I need to be able to figure out the way I'm supposed to act towards men so that they'll think I'm confident and self sufficient and want to take care of me.

 

 

I'm actually pretty confident and self-sufficient when it comes to other parts of my life. I'm well respected in my career and I'm the person friends, family and co-workers seek out to help them solve their problems.

 

I REALLY recommend a book called: Loving Him without Losing You: How to Stop Disappearing and Start Being Yourself by Beverly Engel.

 

It is a terrific book that may help you, as it describes what you're talking about. Basically, women who are seemingly confident, successful and assertive in their job, with their family, with strangers but when it comes on to romance they exhibit the complete opposite traits! An excerpt from the back of the book reads:

 

Do you frequently find yourself putting your lover’s needs ahead of your own? Do you tend to lose yourself in your romantic relationships? Have you ever neglected your career, your friends, or even your health while in the midst of a love affair?

 

If you answered "yes" to any of these questions, you are not alone. As with millions of women who are otherwise strong and independent, the dream of a loving, intimate relationship may often seduce you into sacrificing crucial parts of your identity—whether it’s your social life, your time alone, your spiritual practice, or your beliefs and values.

 

Among the strategies in this book are the SEVEN COMMITMENTS Disappearing Women must make in order to maintain their sense of self in relationships:

 

Learn to go slow

Be yourself and tell the truth about yourself

Maintain a separate life

Stay in the present and in reality

Don’t go changing to try to please him

Cultivate equal relationships

Speak your mind

 

 

I highly suggest you read this book, as it may shed some light on your situation and make you realize you're not alone, but the reality is books are written about your behavior because it IS misguided. I learned that you cannot play act and simply learn what a man wants and try to PRETEND to be that way. You attract people that are a match for you and your issues. If you don't fix your issues, but simply try to pretend to be self-sufficient and confident, so that a nice man will want you...well you've seen how it works out. It's not something you can ever pretend. It seems though that you're not willing to do the work to TRULY become that way but simply want steps on how to pretend to be that way. It doesn't work. I really believe when forming relationships we make conscious and subconscious choices...hence, you'll find that knowing nothing about a person, people with issues often still end up having a knack for picking each other. The kind of men you want can't be tricked...it will feel off if it isn't genuine. You can't currently sustain such a relationship and so none comes your way. You have to focus on yourself and truly becoming different before you can attract differently.

Edited August 7, 2012 by MissBee

[2sunny]

YOU need to be throng for YOU! STop going at this backwards!

 

Take your power back = YOU'VE handed TOO MUCH of YOUR power to your MM!

 

I'm sure HAe can see how unbalanced your life is and has always been.

 

All the drama is from YOU - YOU can change that - but you must look within - instead of looking to a man - any man - to fill the void within you.

 

You aren't offering your healthy self - so why would that be something a man might desire.

 

You seem to know his marriage - but what you really know is ONLY what he allows you to understand. Selective sharing of info so that the listener gets a certain version that works to HIS advantage.

 

His wife has been sick. You think he's gonna leave her? Not likely!

 

She schedules his day? IF he planned to leave her - he wouldnt have her in that position! Even IF he wanted to see YOU MORE - he would never have HER scheduling HIS day! He doesn't make time for you because he's MAKING time with his wife!

 

You are delusional. He is never leaving her.

 

He may have said he wants more time with you when he retires - BUT I didn't see you say he intended to BE with you - much less marry you.

 

Wake up and open your eyes!

 

Tell him now - IF he intends to divorce to file and show you the papers when it's FINAl! If he doesn't file now - he never will. He's had 17 years to consider it... He doesn't need MORE time. I'd give him a deadline of one week - you don't need to wait any longer to be strung along.

 

Never see or speak to him again if he doesn't file right away. I think he's just wasting MORE of your time - but the bottom line is YOU are ALLOWING this unhealthy affair to continue with your delusional perspective.

Edited August 7, 2012 by 2sunny

[2sunny]

I'm 42. I'm determined to be in a position where I don't have to work full-time anymore by the time I'm 55.

 

You're determined to make that happen for yourself - or are you looking for the man to provide that for you too?

 

Please be clear with your answer.