Am I in danger of becoming the OW?

[the_entertainer1]

Hi

 

I posted a similar post in the Marriage forum, but I thought the answers I got were a little biased ... I'd like a more 'even spread' of opinions, I guess. Last year was my first year out of college and I landed my dream job. (It was only a one-year contract. I finished up two months ago and I'm in a new job now which I also like, but my old workplace wants me back when a position becomes available). There were a couple of other girls a few years older than me but the majority of my coworkers were between 35-60.

 

One man seemed to particularly help me out a bit. We worked in different departments, so technically, didn't have to really interact much. He was one of the first people I met when I started there. He'd occasionally pop by my desk and ask how I was going with my workload (I was given more than I probably should have, considering my inexperience), and help me with little things, like if I had trouble with my computer or the photocopier.

 

This guy is 50 and married with 2 kids. Everyone always goes on about how he's such a nice guy. (A number of the women have crushes on him, and I have to admit, I developed one too, despite his age). Of course, I respect the fact that he's married and I was usually quite conscious of my actions when I was around him, so he wouldn't find out.

 

Anyway, over the past year, we developed a bit more of a 'friendship', though I wouldn't exactly call it that. To me (perhaps because of the way I felt about him), things always seemed a little awkward. Like, he'd be really nice sometimes, but at other times, he'd avoid eye contact if we passed each other. Sometimes it seemed as if he'd walk in the opposite direction if he saw me coming. I'm not sure if it was a conscious effort to ignore me, but it felt really obvious to me. I didn't think I'd done anything to offend him, so the only other reason for his behaviour seemed to be that he was attracted to me and was trying to distance himself.

 

At our Christmas party last year, I drank about half a glass of champagne more than I should have (I had tried to be responsible and drink a glass of water in between my drinks, so I don't quite know why I got a bit drunk!) and because I was the youngest, he teased me about whether I was even allowed to be drinking, and that I should switch to soft drink. Even six months later, he still jokes about my alcohol consumption that night. A couple of days later we were saying goodbye for the holidays. He thanked me for my work, said I'd done a really good job and gave me a hug and a kiss on the cheek. As I'm new to the 'adult' working environment, I'm not sure if that's the done thing or not??

 

When we resumed work after the holidays, things went back to 'normal' with his seemingly 'nice one day and ignoring the next' act. He'd still continue to help me with things, and joke around and tease me a bit. I noticed, though, that sometimes he'd then touch me on the arm or shoulders if he was 'joking around'. I was fine with that - whatever, I guess it seemed harmless enough - but looking back on it, I don't think he interacted with other people in quite the same way. He's not really a 'touchy feely' kind of guy. Now, everyone would buy chocolates or lollies to share if people were working late. I noticed that whenever I gave him one, or he gave one to me, our fingers would brush. (Again, this could have been an accidentally, and I could just be reading too much into it).

 

When I found out that I was leaving my job I was devastated. It's a prestigious place with great coworkers and fantastic working conditions. I told him about a month before I finished up and he helped me to come to terms with it. Though he knew I was upset, he would always focus on the positives. I wanted him to acknowledge the fact that I was sad about leaving, but he'd always say stuff like, "at least you have another job" or "it's good experience" or "you don't want to be stuck here forever" and then "you'll get a job back here soon."

 

I guess when I found out I was leaving, I did try to flirt with him a little bit. Having said that, I'm pretty inexperienced with that sort of thing, so he probably couldn't tell! lol. And I feel so guilty about my attraction to him (because he's married) that I was still very guarded around him. I still have no desire to have an affair with him. Anyway, on the Monday of my last week, we passed each other in the corridor. He did a kind of double-take and said "come here." Then he goes, "it's your last week, you need a hug" and held out his arms. I appreciated the comfort, but I'm not sure if that's all he was trying to do? It was quite brief. Later that week, I had farewell drinks. I invited most of the staff, including him, but he couldn't make it. He did say, though, "don't worry, I'll give you a big goodbye kiss before then!" He was obviously joking, though I don't know if the 'joke' was just a cover for his true desires? (For the record, it didn't happen!!)On my last day (also the last day before we all went on holidays) he gave me two hugs. The first was in the morning and we were walking across the courtyard, side-by-side. He said something like, "no tears today!" and put his arm around me as we were walking. The second hug was the 'final' goodbye. Again, in the courtyard, and his kids were there, waiting for him to take them home. It was a long hug though, probably last ing 8-10 seconds. Even if I wasn't attracted to him, I think I just needed a hug like that from someone.

 

During the holidays, I supervised a group of students on a school trip (yes, I'm a teacher). His daughter went on the trip, so when we returned from the trip, he was there to pick her up. When he saw me, he came over and gave me a hug. Since when did we go to a hugging relationship? It's not like we were even very good friends (not really close enough to hang out after work or anything like that). Anyway, my phone had died so he let me use his to call someone to come pick me up. He even offered me a lift home (I declined) but made sure I'd be ok. Then he just said goodbye and left with his daughter. Later that day I sent him a text message just to thank him for all his help and telling him to 'keep in touch' - I meant by email or something. He became a mit of a mentor to me and I appreciated his help and advice. He sent me back a reply that thanked me for taking care of his kids, saying that they'd all miss me, and wishing me luck at my new school. He finished with "catch up for a beer later this term." That threw me a bit. I mean, even though I really wanted that opportunity, to hang out outside of work, I never thought it could actually be a possibility.

 

I think that he's a nice man. I am attracted to him, but I respect the fact that he's married and I will not consciously do anything that could jeopardise his relationship with his family. I don't want to take things any further than where they are. I would like to catch up with him though, and I wish that we could be friends. Am I being naive? I'm mature for my age, I guess, and like the company of older people as much as I like the company of people my own age. So anyway, I replied to his message, suggesting a week around mid-term. He replied with "it's in my diary, but you'll have to give me a reminder." (A guy I spoke to about this said that it was his way of confirming I was still interested in catching up?) Anyway, It's almost time for the reminder, but for some reason, I'm a bit uneasy about the whole thing. I have a funny feeling. I mean, even if everything is platonic (which is what I desire most) it just seems weird that a twenty-three-year-old is catching up with a fifty-year-old for a beer.

 

I guess my questions are:

- Is he being a bit paternal? Do coworkers usually act this way towards each other?

- Would it be unusual for us to catch up? (I've caught up for dinner and drinks with other people from that school)

- Does he have less platonic motives? Was he just being really careful when we worked together because of the fact that we were coworkers? He doesn't seem like the 'type' to get involved with someone other than his wife.

- Am I reading too much into everything?

 

I apologise for the length of this post! I just really need some advice/perspective/guidance.

 

Thanks

Edited August 6, 2012 by the_entertainer1

[woinlove]

You describe feeling guilty and ask if you are in danger of becoming an OW. Those are not positive feelings or worries, so I'd suggest focussing on more positive things in your life, focussing on family, friends and romantic interests that make you feel great about yourself and not guilty.

 

Since he is much older, he may have noticed your attempts at flirting, but fortunately (for both of you) it sounds like he didn't pursue that and even when you asked to meet up with him, he put the ball back in your court by specifically asking you to remind him. He is a father and husband and has a life involving those commitments and your flirting and noticing any touch of his fingers, etc., is not really respecting who he is and is not being someone who honestly cares about him in a way which will positively influence his life. Seems like you have an infatuation with him as a romantic interest.

 

Your life will be more positive and richer if you focus on connections which make you feel good about yourself and where you are treating others with respect and compassion. It is natural to develop inappropriate infatuations sometimes, but you can be mature and kind, and let them pass. So don't hold onto the guilt or feel bad about yourself, just acknowledge you let your fantasies take hold a bit, let this go, and focus on connections that don't make you feel guilty or make you wonder if you will get involved in infidelity.

[sad puppy]

Before you devote any more time and energy on this guy, immerse yourself in this forum, do a lot of reading about all the pain and agony. That should keep you out of an affair or tempting one.

[the_entertainer1]

Why do you feel the need to be friends with a married man?

 

It's not about the fact that he's married, or even the fact that I have a bit of a crush on him. Basically, he's a nice guy, he can hold a decent conversation and we have similar tastes in music. Sure, I could find that in friends who are my own age (and/or unmarried) but is it really so bad that I want to be friends with him?

 

Why would you risk your career when you're looking to get back into that school for a permanent position? Are you seriously that desperate for more of the attention he's been throwing your way?

 

This is an excellent point. It really was my dream job and I want, more than anything, to get a permanent position there. I've caught up with other coworkers since I've left - would it really be that bad if I saw him too? I am well aware of the professional implications (among other things) it would have if anything did happen with this guy. And like I said, I would still rather have a platonic relationship with him.

 

You took his bait. His goal is to completely reel you in.

 

So you're saying it's a bad idea to catch up with him? Even if my intentions are platonic? His professional advice is valuable to me too. And he just doesn't seem like the 'type' of guy to actively go after someone ...

[sad puppy]

I can remember being 23 years old and if a 50 year old guy was hitting on me or showing me some kind of special interest, my skin would crawl. Yuck! Find a fun, hot, young guy - don't waste your time with this guy. I mean seriously, he's twice your age - sickening. I'm 51 right now, and not sure if I want to be with a 50 year old man - lol!

[the_entertainer1]

sad_puppy, I never thought I would be in this situation. I find it weird that I'm not uncomfortable with the attention from this older guy (yet at the same time, I am still uncomfortable with it, because he's married - I know that probably sounds a little paradoxical ...)

 

This guy is good looking for his age and looks about ten years younger than he is (still weird, I know.) I would much prefer a guy who is closer to my own age, but they mostly seem to be very immature, and only interested in going out and getting drunk all the time! It doesn't make it 'right' to get involved with a married guy, I know. And I'm not actually going to get involved. It's just an observation.

[woinlove]

sad_puppy, I never thought I would be in this situation. I find it weird that I'm not uncomfortable with the attention from this older guy (yet at the same time, I am still uncomfortable with it, because he's married - I know that probably sounds a little paradoxical ...)

 

This guy is good looking for his age and looks about ten years younger than he is (still weird, I know.) I would much prefer a guy who is closer to my own age, but they mostly seem to be very immature, and only interested in going out and getting drunk all the time! It doesn't make it 'right' to get involved with a married guy, I know. And I'm not actually going to get involved. It's just an observation.

 

Usually, no one thinks they would be attracted to and flirting with a married man twice their age with children, thinking up excuses to get together with him again, until they are actually doing those things. Denial is how most people end up doing things they feel guilty about. Your attraction and the flirting, noticing small touches, analyzing his every move - that is not the behavior of someone interested in a platonic friendship.

[alexandria35]

Am I in danger of becoming the OW?

 

What is your point in asking this question?

 

If you become secret friends with him, as in he keeps his friendship with hidden and a secret from his family and wife then you will be the OW. Sex doesn't have to happen for it to be an affair. You said you don't want to have an affair with him and you respect the fact that he is married but I don't think you really do. I think those are things you're telling yourself to soothe your conscience as you try to get closer to him, because if you were sure of yourself and you know for a fact that you don't want an affair with a 50 something married man, you wouldn't be here asking these things. It would be like me going to a forum and asking "am I in danger of having a one night stand"? As of right now I don't do casual sex or one night stands. It's not me so I know I'm not in any danger of having one. I would only ask that question if I found myself considering having meaningless sex. I would say the only reason you are asking the question is because you are considering it.

 

I think a young woman your age should be directing her attention to better things than this. I don't know if this guy is interested in an affair with you or if he's just enjoying your little crush on him. I developed crushes on a few older married men when I was your age but I steered myself clear of them because I knew no good could come of it. Much more fun to chase relationships that had some kind of potential and that I could conduct out in the open with my friends and family.

[the_entertainer1]

Your attraction and the flirting, noticing small touches, analyzing his every move - that is not the behavior of someone interested in a platonic friendship.

 

I see your point. But that's the thing. While I may want to catch up with him, it doesn't mean that I will actually let anything 'sus' happen. My sense of guilt would far outweigh anything. I could not live with being the OW. (I know, so why do I care if he likes me or not?)

 

You know, it's kind of funny. I wasn't even attracted to him at first. It was only after a few months, when his behaviour seemed to be 'hot and cold' for no apparent reason, that I considered the possibility that it might be because he was attracted and trying to distance himself. He was just really inconsistent in his behaviour towards me - I couldn't think of any other reason why. So then when I considered that he might like me, my attraction towards him began to develop. It's probably just my inexperience telling me all the wrong things! lol.

[the_entertainer1]

Oh alexandria35. I love your response. (That sounds sarcastic, but it's not meant to be!) I have a few questions though (it's my thinking process).

 

Am I in danger of becoming the OW? What is your point in asking this question? If you become secret friends with him, as in he keeps his friendship with hidden and a secret from his family and wife then you will be the OW. Sex doesn't have to happen for it to be an affair.

 

I think I see your point. Are you saying then, that people who are married can't be friends with non-married people of the opposite sex? Why does it have to be a 'secret' friendship? Is there any indication that this could turn into a secret friendship? And would the reason behind it be more about avoiding suspicion rather than hiding anything (as nothing has really happened that needs to be hidden). I guess it just looks more suspicious if it is a secret, even if everything is 'above board.'

 

You said you don't want to have an affair with him and you respect the fact that he is married but I don't think you really do. I think those are things you're telling yourself to soothe your conscience as you try to get closer to him, because if you were sure of yourself and you know for a fact that you don't want an affair with a 50 something married man, you wouldn't be here asking these things.

 

I've met his wife a couple of times and know his kids quite well. I honestly do not want to interfere, distract or draw him away from that. Growing up, my own family life has been very stable and I actually admire that in his family too. Then why do I care so much, right?

 

Maybe I've thought about an affair, but I would never actually let it happen - I couldn't live with the guilt and secrecy. I'm not going to make a move on him, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't make a move on me. If he tried something, I'd probably run in the opposite direction. What I'm saying is, I think my attraction mostly just plays out in my head.

 

Much more fun to chase relationships that had some kind of potential and that I could conduct out in the open with my friends and family.

 

So true ... I would much rather do that, to be honest.

[alexandria35]

Oh I think married people can have friendships with the opposite sex but it all has to be appropriate and above board.

 

You said you are attracted to this man and you have tried to flirt with him a little bit. That right there is enough to make a friendship with him inappropriate. Do you have other 50 yr old married men as friends? The reason you want the friendship with this man is because of your attraction to him, otherwise I don't think you would even give him the time of day. This is an older married man with kids who you don't even work with anymore. Meeting alone with him for drinks is inappropriate. I understand getting attracted to someone who isn't appropriate or available. It can feel fun and exciting to entertain the idea as a little fantasy but once you start meeting up with this person alone and possibly in secret you have crossed a line and broken boundaries. I remember getting the occasional crush on a married man when I was young. I would fantasize about them, flirt a bit and have fun. However the moment the married guy would reciprocate my interest I would immediately get turned off. I would be disgusted with them for showing a willingness to cheat because in my fantasies they were good decent men who wouldn't cheat...LOL, how funny is that? Lucky I felt that way though because it's what kept me from ever getting involved with a married man.

 

I don't think you want to be an OW or that you're bad for having a little crush on an older married man, but you don't need to act on it and having a private little get together for drinks is acting on it. It's pushing the line a little further out and feeding your feelings which will grow stronger. Chalk him up to an attractive guy that made going to work a little more fun because of the attraction and leave it at that.

[stillafool]

It's not about the fact that he's married, or even the fact that I have a bit of a crush on him. Basically, he's a nice guy, he can hold a decent conversation and we have similar tastes in music. Sure, I could find that in friends who are my own age (and/or unmarried) but is it really so bad that I want to be friends with him?

 

Most women who are friends with MM are also friends with their wives. Are you and his wife friendly? Have you been invited to their home for functions? If not, you are basically co-workers. Nothing more.

 

 

 

 

I've caught up with other coworkers

since I've left - would it really be that bad if I saw him too? I am well aware

of the professional implications (among other things) it would have if anything

did happen with this guy. And like I said, I would still rather have a

platonic relationship with him.

 

You already do have a platonic relationship with him. Catching up with co-workers can be done by dropping by the office at some time and chatting with everyone. Notice how you called everyone else co-workers but yet you want to be "friends" with him. What's the difference? Intent.

[stillafool]

There are plenty of young men who are into more than drinking. They are building careers, involved in healthy things. If you want a 50 year old man that is your business but try to find one who isn't married and doesn't work where you do.

[Artie Lang]

my crystal ball shows me you"ll end up in the sack with him, if you don't initiate clear boundaries with this man.

[veryhappy]

 

 

I've met his wife a couple of times and know his kids quite well. I honestly do not want to interfere, distract or draw him away from that. Growing up, my own family life has been very stable and I actually admire that in his family too. Then why do I care so much, right?

 

Maybe I've thought about an affair, but I would never actually let it happen - I couldn't live with the guilt and secrecy. I'm not going to make a move on him, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't make a move on me. If he tried something, I'd probably run in the opposite direction. What I'm saying is, I think my attraction mostly just plays out in my head.

 

 

If you don't want to interfere, stick to playing it out in your head. Don't meet with him. If he brings it up, make an excuse. The smallest steps you will take to test the water and spend time together will end with you being the OW. Are you in danger of becoming the OW? Yes, you are.

[Brightmoon]

You seem quite infatuated with him. Do you want to enter into an affair with this guy.... and be the other women??

 

No harm in being infatuated as long as you acknowledge to yourself and don't act on it.... you'll get hurt if you do.

[jwi71]

It's hard to say if you are now or will become his OW.

 

So the litmus test I would apply is this:

 

Does he act or speak differently around d you in the presence of his W and kids?

Do you sense he "dials it back" in their company?

 

If so, then one can make a case that he IS grooming you as OW.

If not, the I'd have fewer concerns.

 

However, all of this *should* be moot. You control you, no one else does.

If you don't want to wear that mask - don't wear it.

 

The very fact you seek anonymous opinion to this should tell you enough.

 

Back off, you're here because you sense the danger yet have plausible reason to continue.

 

I suspect many A's begin and morals end as this....

[the_entertainer1]

The litmus test I would apply is this:

 

Does he act or speak differently around d you in the presence of his W and kids?

Do you sense he "dials it back" in their company?

 

To answer your questions:

I've never been in a situation where I've been with him and his wife at the same time. We had a parent-teacher interview to discuss their son, but he didn't attend, only his wife. When in the presence of his kids (and sometimes other staff), his behaviour varied. It seemed really inconsistent initially, which made me wonder about his intentions in the first place. For example, if I was having a conversation with one of his kids, he'd come and talk to his kid but not say anything to me. But then he gave me a hug in front of his kids (but it was my last day at work, so I guess it's kosher).

 

There were only one or two times when we were ever completely alone (this was by chance, too) and he seemed to clam up a bit in those instances. He didn't really talk to me much when we were in big groups, either. We mostly conversed if if it was just the two of us (almost always with other people around the general vicinity though).

 

Anyway, I think everything will be fine. We're both professionals. I don't know how he feels about me, apart from the fact that he likes me as a coworker. In any case, I won't overstep the mark and I don't think he will either - he's a decent man. So yesterday I sent him a message, saying hi and asking if he was still keen for a beer next week.

 

He replied with "Sure. I hear you are also coming to the work dinner." (Another ex-colleage, a friend of mine, invited me but unfortunately I can't make it. I already let them know.)

 

So I responded by saying that I couldn't make it and suggested that the days later on next week would be best for me (in terms of the beer).

 

He wrote back with "I'll let you know." Usually if a guy says "I'll let you know", I'd assume that he's not interested in catching up. But this guy is a very busy guy and has family commitments too. It seems plausible that he'd have to check his schedule before committing. Besides, he's the one who suggested the beer in the first place. If he didn't want to, why would he have suggested it Couldn't he just as easily have said that he was busy next week? Or am I just hoping that's the case?

 

When it comes down to it (and I think I've said this before) I don't really care if he's "interested" in me or not (though I'm still curious, and would like to know, lol), but I would like to stay on friendly terms with him.

[veryhappy]

You won't overstep the mark, and you are only developing a beautiful friendship over beer? You might be able to make yourself believe that, but please allow us to shake our heads in disbelief.

[the_entertainer1]

Maybe I'm being naive. I'm very inexperienced when it comes to men (lol!)

 

I don't know if I can express this next idea properly ... it's kind of like I'm becoming aware that I might be walking into this situation without realising the possible ramifications.

 

Are you saying that even if I'm convinced that I won't overstep, he might have other ideas?

[veryhappy]

I'm saying that your mind makes you believe you're only doing this to be friends, but deep down inside you are hoping for more, testing the boundaries, wondering where it could go. I also think you are hoping for him to cross that line and you might actually not want to do it yourself.

[woinlove]

You are attracted to this married man, have noticed the slightest physical contact, think about him even though you no longer work with him, and now you are taking steps to meet with him under the guise of friendship. Part of you wonders though if you will become an OW so you came here asking that. I think you should just be honest with yourself, and drop the talk of friendship because you know you are attracted to him and want to know whether he is attracted to you.

 

Read more stories here. It is very common for an OW to say I didn't plan on starting an affair, I didn't look for this, it just happened, or it happened before I noticed and then it was too late. Usually in relationships with single men there is no such talk of "I didn't know it was happening". This is how people delude themselves when they want to do something but they don't want others to think they want to do that and/or don't want to admit to themselves that they want to do that.

Edited August 9, 2012 by woinlove

[2_long]

Since you're not experienced in dealing with men I'll let you know that it is totally out of line for a married individual to go out for a beer alone with a member of the opposite sex.

 

You may not be completely aware of your own intentions but believe me your man thinks he's you're interested if you're asking him out. His "maybe" is likely him deciding whether or not he wants to go this route.

 

You have no idea what's going on in his life, whether he's had affairs before, feels vulnerable and likes the attention of a young woman or anything else. You are entering very dangerous territory and you don't seem to know the rules.

[sad puppy]

First of all, I'm not buying your "I'm so innocent routine". You keep referring to "oh, I drank a little bit too much champagne", and "I don't have much experience with men", ... However, your initial post was quite lengthy, with a title referring to yourself as a possible OW, so you are CLEARLY considering cheating with this man.

 

And, now, you have asked this married man out for a beer. You keep discussing how you have a crush on him, blah, blah, blah, but then are saying how you don't really care if he's interested or not. I call BS.

 

If this guy is smart, and he values his marriage, he will stay away from you. And the reason, he did not jump on your "oh so innocent invitation for a beer" is because he probably reads your signals and sees your highly inappropriate behavior as a threat to his marriage. He, also, is probably not buying your little innocent routine.

 

Why don't you do the right thing and back off from this guy. No good can come of it. And drop the innocent routine, any woman that invites a married man out for a beer, is far from innocent. You might think it's all fun & games to chase after this guy, but there are very serious consequences to this behavior. What is wrong with you that you would willingly mix up your professional & emotional life? It is a huge risk to your professional reputation.

 

Just drop it. And quite frankly, you seem sort of evil to me, portraying yourself as so young, and clueless all the while actively trying to make something happen with this guy. I imagine you act all flirty, and young, and innocent all the while sending signals to him that you are "available". Please, you are heading for a nightmare.

 

NOT having a beer with this guy is the best thing that could happen.

[sad puppy]

Maybe I'm being naive. I'm very inexperienced when it comes to men (lol!)

 

I don't know if I can express this next idea properly ... it's kind of like I'm becoming aware that I might be walking into this situation without realising the possible ramifications.

 

Are you saying that even if I'm convinced that I won't overstep, he might have other ideas?

 

What is your problem? He did not jump on your beer invitation. So, here you are thinking yourself the paragon of virtue but asking is it HE that might have other ideas? My God, you are reading into behavior that is not even there. YOU are the one with other ideas, not him.