Am I in danger of becoming the OW?

[whichwayisup]

Let's hope he replies this time

 

If he doesn't, how are you going to feel? Hurt, annoyed, played? WIll you give up or email him again? Just really think about your reasons as to why you want to pursue a friendship with him.

 

I guess I'm trying to understand your reasonings to knowingly ask a MM out to dinner/coffee/lunch, to try to befriend him. If you were married how you would feel if your husband was doing this to another woman?

 

though I don't think he'd've brought it up at the dinner if he didn't intend on following through ... he could have gotten away with not mentioning it.)

 

He brought it up so it wouldn't be awkward. He knew this was on your mind. Also, some men say stuff without thinking. Like the "yeah I'll call you.." after the first or second date and deep down they have no intention of calling, it's just their way of dealing with it.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Oh, brother.

[ThatJustHappened]

Despite all your protesting (or maybe because of it), you still sound like a little girl with a crush.

[veryhappy]

This has to do with men in general: don't chase a man who doesn't want it. He didn't text you, and he expects you to email? Do you have any pride left? If he wanted to see you he'd email you himself. He's asking you to do the work so he can lie to himself that you lured him in, and he tried to fight it, so he's still a good guy.

 

You just caught up with find other. Would you kindly find a different excuse? Catching up is hardly doing it anymore.

[losingmyground]

The fact that you feel guilty and have to ask....YES!! First of all, he is married....LEAVE HIM ALONE. More often than not, the OW ends up with the broken heart when all is said and done.

[Artie Lang]

i give up. i'm done.

[BetrayedH]

I know you don't like my advice cause I've been a bit harsh, but it is disconcerting that you can't even be honest with yourself and admit that you want an affair with this man. Maybe it makes you feel a little less guilty to be afraid to own it. You want it, if you didn't you would not have started 2 different threads here on LS about some older guy who is married. You aren't fooling us about your attraction but you are trying to fool yourself.

 

 

 

You are playing with fire, so is he, I'm not sure who is the cat and who is the mouse. If you get the nerve to come back after the affair starts, I'll be the first one who says............told you so.

 

I think there would be quite a queue line.

 

How do you come here and say, "We'll be getting together again soon so, see there's definitely nothing going on here? Furthermore, I offer this recent perv hug as evidence that he is not interested."

[SoleMate]

Then he said that he was free after school most afternoons and that I should email him.

 

"Free in the afternoon?" Why does that sounds so.....dirty? Classes get out around 3:30, he doesn't have to be home 'til 6......

 

But seriously. You are highly invested in this individual, emotionally. It comes through loud and clear to EVERYONE reading this thread. Do you react the same way to your 35-year-old female colleagues who can probably give you advice every bit as well as this fellow can?

 

If you're going to chase a man, FINE! I applaud you! Just chase one whom you can ethically catch and conquer. My 2c.

[2sunny]

So earlier in the week I went to a dinner that some people at my work had organised. Another former colleague, a close friend, had invited me. There weren't many of us there: 4-5 staff and the rest were students. But this guy was there.

 

I felt a bit awkward about how things had been left, so I didn't talk to him that much. He was friendly but seemed a bit reserved. There was one point where we were standing next to each other and he put his arm around me and pulled me towards him (not in a pervy way, but more in a caring way) and asked how I was going in my new job. This side-hug didn't last too long. I think also, that if he did have ulterior motives, he wouldn't have done that in front of so many people. But anyway ...

 

It came time for me to leave - my friend was driving me home. So we were about to do the whole 'goodbye thing' when he asked, out of the blue, what had happened to catching up and if we were still going to. I was so surprised - over the course of the evening I had almost even come to terms with the fact that he apparently didn't want to even be friends. Anyway, I said to him that he had never messaged me back, and he looked a little affronted and guilty before saying that he wasn't good at texting. Then he said that he was free after school most afternoons and that I should email him. So I guess I will.

 

You know, I thought it would be weird when I saw him. Like, that my feelings for him would be stronger. But it was actually the opposite. I don't think I like him like that anymore. However, I am still looking forward to the idea/possibility of catching up. His demeanour gave me the impression that he's not looking for anything 'extra', and I've come to the realisation that I'm not either - even if it was ok to 'go there'. So I guess I feel a bit more comfortable with the whole situation.

 

So unless you think I'm walking into some new, unforeseen danger, I'm going to go ahead and email him to organise something. (Let's hope he replies this time - though I don't think he'd've brought it up at the dinner if he didn't intend on following through ... he could have gotten away with not mentioning it.)

 

To answer your original question - yes.

 

Meeting him further will only bring up those "intimate feelings" again.

 

IF you are so interested in only a "platonic friendship" make sure YOU never meet him without his WIFE present! If you two are"only friends" she won't have any problem with the three of you getting together - if you two have issues with meeting with her along - then one or both of you don't INTEND to be "only friends".

 

His wife has every right to know who he's with and what you're discussing - if you need to keep it a "secret" something's TERRIBLY wrong.

[Mme. Chaucer]

i give up. i'm done.

 

If only it were the OP who posted this ...

[2_long]

Wow.

 

You admit you have no knowledge of how to deal with men or what's appropriate. Everyone here tells you this is completely inappropriate and that this guy definitely thinks you're after an affair wiith him even if you don't (or don't admit it) and you still "innocently" go off with him for a beer, coffee or whatever.

 

You cannot claim innocence anymore; you are now making a choice to have an inappropriate relationship with a married man.

[the_entertainer1]

I honestly think that most of you are too cynical, but maybe that's my relative youth speaking. I have an update. My last post said that my feelings towards him have changed. Things are no different on that front. Even if feelings of attraction were involved, it doesn't mean anything is going to happen. It's like the feeling when you get so angry you want to 'kill' someone. Just because you have those feelings doesn't mean you're actually going to murder someone.

 

Anyway, I emailed him yesterday, just saying that it was good to go to the dinner last week and that we could catch up as he suggested. I gave a couple of days for next week. He replied, confirming a day (midweek) and suggesting 5pm (after work). Then he wrote: "coffee or beer, you decide."

 

So I guess I'm meant to suggest a place. I don't want your criticism, just your advice - does the choice of beer or coffee have particular significance? I was going to suggest a bar that serves coffee ... There aren't many coffee shops around that purely serve coffee - they're all cafes, which might suggest a meal (which I don't want).

 

I'm trying to keep this 'safe', do not want him to get ideas, lol! I still think he's a good guy, and that he won't 'do anything' but I'm still wary.

[Furious]

I honestly think that most of you are too cynical, but maybe that's my relative youth speaking. I have an update. My last post said that my feelings towards him have changed. Things are no different on that front. Even if feelings of attraction were involved, it doesn't mean anything is going to happen. It's like the feeling when you get so angry you want to 'kill' someone. Just because you have those feelings doesn't mean you're actually going to murder someone.

 

Anyway, I emailed him yesterday, just saying that it was good to go to the dinner last week and that we could catch up as he suggested. I gave a couple of days for next week. He replied, confirming a day (midweek) and suggesting 5pm (after work). Then he wrote: "coffee or beer, you decide."

 

So I guess I'm meant to suggest a place. I don't want your criticism, just your advice - does the choice of beer or coffee have particular significance? I was

going to suggest a bar that serves coffee ... There aren't many coffee shops around that purely serve coffee - they're all cafes, which might suggest a meal (which I don't want).

 

I'm trying to keep this 'safe', do not want him to get ideas, lol! I still think he's a good guy, and that he won't 'do anything' but I'm still wary.

 

 

 

Beer or coffee? I think you should choose to go for the beer...lol.

[Mme. Chaucer]

So I guess I'm meant to suggest a place. I don't want your criticism, just your advice - does the choice of beer or coffee have particular significance? I was going to suggest a bar that serves coffee ... There aren't many coffee shops around that purely serve coffee - they're all cafes, which might suggest a meal (which I don't want).

 

I'm trying to keep this 'safe', do not want him to get ideas, lol! I still think he's a good guy, and that he won't 'do anything' but I'm still wary.

 

Haha! You are funny, girl. You are "wary!" :D Well, maybe you ought not to be slavering after the poor old fellow like a you-know-what in heat!

 

Well, I've been pondering and, after much thoughtful conjecture, I suggest that you find a cozy opium den in your area. That way, you can have nice comfortable seating and a quiet, oh, so relaxing atmosphere where you can get to know each other.

 

And of course nothing is going to happen! Clearly, you are a very nice, innocent young lady who is just desperately pursuing a married man for purely social reasons!

 

Or … a kind of puerile creative writer.

[truthbetold]

I admit, I can't figure you out! You seem to want to have sense about this and why you're entertaining this idea, I don't know. But to give you the benefit of the doubt I will maintain it's a bad idea.

 

It has nothing to do with being cynical for me, it has everything to know that I have good boundaries. When you first came here, you admitted you had "feelings" of some sort that you knew were inappropriate. Regardless if you got over that. Those "feelings" and the circumstance you are willing to put yourself in are exactly how something happens that people will swear up and down that they didn't mean for that to happen, or worse, it just happened.

 

Yes it's choices that lead to an affair no doubt. But those choices can be easily swayed if there's ANY attraction whatsoever and if your defenses are lowered. i.e. having a beer in this case.

 

Can you honestly picture going out and having him compliment your eyes or any other thing that will give you butterflies and maybe a certain way he'll smile or cock his head will give you butterflies, then it doesn't take much from there to flirt back, a hand on a thigh then boom! A kiss you "didn't mean to happen" and it's too late because then you swear that "you didn't mean for it to happen the chemistry was just unbelievable and too strong and couldn't stop it!":rolleyes: Can you truly say that's not going to happen? If you are so sure why are you questioning "what THIS means?" (coffee vs beer)

 

You're in way over your head and don't realize it, that's what's scary. So to reiterate, no it's absolutely not cynacism, it's absolutely knowing that you have good boundaries and won't compromise them. And it's not being paranoid, it's about being respectful to marriage on either side, just because he isn't doesn't mean you need to follow suit. He very well could be testing you to see which you pick.

[Brightmoon]

 

I'm trying to keep this 'safe', do not want him to get ideas, lol! I still think he's a good guy, and that he won't 'do anything' but I'm still wary.

 

He is the one that needs to be wary. You are playing games.

[Mme. Chaucer]

You're in way over your head and don't realize it, that's what's scary.

 

Really? What's scary to me is that "she" (the character in the story here) is frantically pursuing a married man who has no interest in her sexually, friendship-wise, professionally, or any other way, and who is not even in her life at all - makes a thread about it here entitled "Am I in danger of becoming the OW," and winds the whole tale up with the protagonist getting ready to propose beer or coffee to the man.

 

I'm scary that she thinks it's even believable, at this point.

[Mme. Chaucer]

She can sugar coat it all she wants . . . she's still behaving predatory IMO.

 

I see a boiled bunny in my crystal ball ...

[2_long]

OP with all due respect I think you're totally missing the point. You've crossed the line just by going for a coffee or beer with this married man.

[ThatJustHappened]

Really? What's scary to me is that "she" (the character in the story here) is frantically pursuing a married man who has no interest in her sexually, friendship-wise, professionally, or any other way, and who is not even in her life at all - makes a thread about it here entitled "Am I in danger of becoming the OW," and winds the whole tale up with the protagonist getting ready to propose beer or coffee to the man.

 

I'm scary that she thinks it's even believable, at this point.

 

And all the while she continues to proclaim her innocence and naivete. I think that's the part that shocks me the most.

[the_entertainer1]

I don't know why I'm back here. The majority of you were rude and condescending towards me, and though things like that are usually like water off a duck's back, you really affected me. So thanks (not!) I thought that this was supposed to be a place where people would offer support and not judge, but I guess I was wrong. But whatever. I guess it's just human nature to judge, so I can't be too critical.

 

Having said all that, I want to give you an update. In a sense, I suppose I want to prove some of you wrong, or to show to you (and to myself) that I can, very much, be in charge of my actions ...

 

 

Last time I wrote here, things were up to me to choose between "coffee or beer" after he had suggested a day and time. I emailed back and suggested coffee. I wasn't sure if beer had other connotations or not, but I wanted to play it safe. Anyway, he didn't reply. I feel like that was a purposeful decision on his part, but I didn't really understand his lack of response, seeing as he had suggested a time and everything. It led me to the conclusion that he might have preferred a beer. But anyway ...

 

I didn't hear from him for a week. I chose not to follow it up. Even though I'd been looking forward to catching up with him, I didn't want to look desperate, or like I was chasing him. The fact that someone here said I was behaving in a "predatory" manner really hurt me. I still don't think I was, as it was HIM giving the 'signals' and initiating things in the first place, not me.

 

On the day that we'd planned to meet, I was a little sad. It's hard when it appears that someone you thought you could rely on (even in a professional/collegial sense) lets you down. I just got on with my day though, and although there was a tiny flicker of hope, I resigned myself to the fact that he wasn't interested.

 

I got the surprise of my life then (almost literally!), when he called me that afternoon, about 45 minutes before we'd arranged to catch up. I hadn't contacted him or anything. He said something like, "now, we were meant to be catching up today, weren't we?" He said something with his kids had come up (he was a little more specific, but those details aren't relevant here). Given the timing, it was apparent to both of us that nothing was going to happen that day. Then, he asked if I was free the next day, or the next week. I was free the next day, so he said "let's make it then instead", and we worked out a time and place (cafe) to meet.

 

So we met the next day. I was a little nervous and didn't really know what to expect from him. He bought me a coffee and we chatted for a while. It was friendly, platonic, and the conversation flowed easily. Apart from my initial nerves, it didn't feel 'inappropriate' either. Despite the age gap, we actually have a lot of similar interests. Anyway, after we'd been there for about 20 minutes, another (former) coworker (his best mate) walked in. (He and I got on reasonably well, though we were never particularly close.) Their kids are involved in a lot of stuff together, and this teacher was supervising them, along with some other kids, at a venue just down the road from the cafe where we were - he'd been 'nominated' to collect coffees for the other staff who were supervising. Anyway, the guy I was with called his friend over, and asked if he was going to join us. The new guy didn't seem too surprised to see me (though it probably would have surprised other people from our work), which makes me think it might have been set up ... Anyway, he bought us another round of coffees and sat with us for about ten minutes before leaving to go back.

 

The two of us stayed and chatted for another twenty minutes or so before he said he had to get going. As I said before, the conversation flowed easily. However, the whole interaction seemed to be lacking a little. There was none of that playful banter that we'd previously had. And the fact that he didn't hug me was a little odd, given that he's greeted me that way the last few times we've seen eachother. I might be reading too much into it, but to me, it felt like he was trying to be *overly* platonic. I didn't flirt with him.

 

All up, we were there for about an hour. As we were leaving, he said that we would catch up again, and also that I should let him know about how I go with my job applications.

 

I came away from it feeling good - happy that I'd seen him and happy with the friendly nature of the encounter. However, I was still a little disappointed that the banter seemed to be missing. But even though he's a nice guy (and good-looking, lol) I think I've realised that perhaps I was more attracted to the *idea* of him. Anyway, I'm confident that we can remain friends, and after his behaviour, I guess he feels the same way.

 

So to 'prove my point' on a few counts:

- I hadn't intended to pursue him, and I didn't.

- We had coffee, not beer, in a public place.

- His friend, and my former coworker, saw us, and even joined us for a while, so there was no 'secrecy'.

- There was no flirting or physical contact.

- Things felt comfortable, not awkward, and he suggested catching up again.

- Things were very platonic.

- I'm happy with this outcome.

 

There is one thing which has been puzzling me slightly though ...

 

When I first started this thread, some of his actions towards me (I didn't write them all down here) had made me feel that he had some sort of more-than-platonic feelings towards me. I was confused about that, and my own feelings that developed as a result. Perhaps paired with my imagination, it worried me that by meeting him, I could be encouraging something. I guess how people might think it is inappropriate, but I still can't see why married people can't be friends with other people of the other sex. Yet, his behaviour yesterday indicated that he did not think I was encouraging something, and indeed, that he was not encouraging anything either. (Which was a relief - it made things much simpler and less 'scary'.) I'm sure I wasn't reading too much into his initial behaviour though. So, why the change?

 

 

p.s. I know I include a lot of depth - I'm a details person, it's just the way I am. I'd write about a bus trip in the same way, lol.

[OpenBook]

There is one thing which has been puzzling me slightly though ...

 

When I first started this thread, some of his actions towards me (I didn't write them all down here) had made me feel that he had some sort of more-than-platonic feelings towards me. I was confused about that, and my own feelings that developed as a result. Perhaps paired with my imagination, it worried me that by meeting him, I could be encouraging something. I guess how people might think it is inappropriate, but I still can't see why married people can't be friends with other people of the other sex. Yet, his behaviour yesterday indicated that he did not think I was encouraging something, and indeed, that he was not encouraging anything either. (Which was a relief - it made things much simpler and less 'scary'.) I'm sure I wasn't reading too much into his initial behaviour though. So, why the change?

 

Because it worked! Better than he thought. Some MM like to prove to themselves from time to time that they've "still got it" by sending out little "feeler" signals to random women they find attractive. It doesn't mean a damn thing, and it's all about HIM, not you. It totally sounds to me like the minute he realized you responded to his little feelers and became interested in him, he turned it around to make it seem like he was simply kindly taking an interest in your career and helping you out with a little mentoring.

 

If I were in your shoes I wouldn't read anything into it. No harm, no foul. Yes he might have found you attractive, but that doesn't mean anything, it's not significant. He's not going to take it anywhere with you. No reflection on you whatsoever; he's simply already taken. End of story.

[BetrayedH]

It's funny to read your post and have you protest so much about how innocent the whole situation is. The whole post screams from top to bottom about how disappointed you are that he gave you signals before and isn't now. There was nothing platonic about this meeting. You very clearly want more and keep getting disappointed. He is married and you need to learn boundaries.

[woinlove]

Because it worked! Better than he thought. Some MM like to prove to themselves from time to time that they've "still got it" by sending out little "feeler" signals to random women they find attractive. It doesn't mean a damn thing, and it's all about HIM, not you. It totally sounds to me like the minute he realized you responded to his little feelers and became interested in him, he turned it around to make it seem like he was simply kindly taking an interest in your career and helping you out with a little mentoring.

 

If I were in your shoes I wouldn't read anything into it. No harm, no foul. Yes he might have found you attractive, but that doesn't mean anything, it's not significant. He's not going to take it anywhere with you. No reflection on you whatsoever; he's simply already taken. End of story.

 

I agree with OpenBook's assessment. Or, if I recall correctly, you were the one who first sent out signals and flirted and he responded. But, OB's analysis still applies, he likely wanted to know he still had it and responded enough to know that you really had a thing for him, and then he turned it around after he knew for sure you were interested in him. Either way, he's not taking it anywhere.

[the_entertainer1]

if I recall correctly, you were the one who first sent out signals and flirted and he responded.

 

Pretty sure that I'm the one who recalls correctly, seeing as I was the one who was there. Whatever, I don't need to waste my time debating that with you.

 

But, OB's analysis still applies, he likely wanted to know he still had it and responded enough to know that you really had a thing for him, and then he turned it around after he knew for sure you were interested in him. Either way, he's not taking it anywhere.

 

OK, I accept that. And I'm fine with it. I guess all I wanted was an explanation for the change. I think I mentioned before that I'm not very experienced in this department. Yes, perhaps I was a little disappointed that it was so platonic compared to before, but it doesn't mean that I actively want or encourage *more*. I mean, the main topic of conversation was work. As I have stated so many times before, there is a big difference between thoughts and actions, and I think that the outcome of this meeting, along with both our choices not to flirt, proved that.