My story

[MissBee]

Obviously the MM lied sometime, either during the EMR when he said he loved her or after when he denied he loved her during the EMR. Who are we to say which was the lie? A lot of MM deny that they love the OW even to themselves when they are focused on saving the marriage.

 

What? No one is attempting to say what the lie is, since we can't determine what the lie is, we're only reiterating his words. If he says he doesn't love her, then he doesn't love her until he says otherwise. There is little sense in ignoring his words and telling her he does....

 

He's called her delusional...I think that says quite a lot and we'd only be furthering that end by encouraging her to believe in something he hasn't said.

 

If BS's supposedly are hell bent on dissuading love, it seems that likewise, some OW are hell bent on encouraging the idea of love, even when the MP in question denies it.

[CALOVELY]

OP, I have to ask, why does she have to be mature about this? You sought to destroy her marriage and to remove her from the "wife" position, you still wish their marriage ends and don't care that there is a baby involved and yet you are pissed she isn't taking the high road? Should she just graciously step aside and send you a thank you card? Jesus, I have heard it all and folks, hide your rabbits.

[truthbetold]

What? No one is attempting to say what the lie is, since we can't determine what the lie is, we're only reiterating his words. If he says he doesn't love her, then he doesn't love her until he says otherwise. There is little sense in ignoring his words and telling her he does....

 

He's called her delusional...I think that says quite a lot and we'd only be furthering that end by encouraging her to believe in something he hasn't said.

 

If BS's supposedly are hell bent on dissuading love, it seems that likewise, some OW are hell bent on encouraging the idea of love, even when the MP in question denies it.

 

Oh I heart you Miss Bee. That is brilliant! OP I really hope this is sinking in.

[CALOVELY]

Posting on LS can make anyone sound unhinged. That doesn't say anything.

 

No, most people who post on LS come across as stable with cognitive reasoning. This one thinks that the wife is evil because she didn't throw a ticker tape parade for her, pack up and leave a mint on the pillow. THAT makes her unhinged and totally out of touch with reality.

To put it another way, if somebody steals things from my house and gets caught, am I supposed to invite them back and point out the silverware they missed? Give me a break.

[alexandria35]

During the EMR he said he loved her.

After the EMR he said he didn't love her during the affair.

 

One is a lie. We don't know which one. Both were his words. He's now trying to save his marriage. Pretty good motivation to lie now. So there really is no way for us to know which is the lie which is why I say to ML to go by her gut feeling.

 

Well first of all, while there may be some MM who do love their OW, I really don't think this MM was one of them. I wish you would stop encouraging the OP's delusions.

 

Secondly both of his statements could actually be true. Perhaps during the affair he had feelings which he considered love and he felt truthful in saying that. Now that the affair is no longer and he has reconnected with his wife, he no longer has feelings for the OW and he is being truthful when he says that. I used to be madly head over heels in love with my sons father. When I told him that I was absolutely speaking the truth. Once I knew him for what he really was I couldn't stand him and I can't stand him till this day and I'm absolutely speaking the truth when I say that.

[MissBee]

Well first of all, while there may be some MM who do love their OW, I really don't think this MM was one of them. I wish you would stop encouraging the OP's delusions.

 

Secondly both of his statements could actually be true. Perhaps during the affair he had feelings which he considered love and he felt truthful in saying that. Now that the affair is no longer and he has reconnected with his wife, he no longer has feelings for the OW and he is being truthful when he says that. I used to be madly head over heels in love with my sons father. When I told him that I was absolutely speaking the truth. Once I knew him for what he really was I couldn't stand him and I can't stand him till this day and I'm absolutely speaking the truth when I say that.

 

I guess it is the return of the fog debate.

 

But I agree that both could be true. Maybe at the time he did feel he loved her, then snapped out of it and now does not. That isn't love IMO...but part and parcel of the A drama and emotions. The transient emotions that are hot and on when it is a secret but when it is out and light is shone on it, they renege.

 

 

Hence, my earlier advice to ML is that people are free to change their minds. He may have meant it at the time, he may simply have been caught up or maybe he never meant it. But that's not relevant so much as she needs to respect what he has already said and stop trying to get him to say something else. Which is what it boils down to. She doesn't like what he has to say now, so believes the wife is making him do it, and she believes if he somehow talks to her in person (even though he already emailed her and was meant to her) that the story will change. I doubt it will change. Even if he admits yes I loved you...then what? He still chose his wife and therefore still won't be your friend ML.

[goodthingscome]

Pierre why can't we be friends? What research? I see a lot of posts here and elsewhere telling BSs to insist on no contact, to be their husbands warden. I don't see anyone saying that I can't be friends if we want to be. And I'm sure he wants to be. Just she has made this demand. Maybe she even threatened to destroy my career and he's staying with her partly to protect me from her.

 

I don't doubt he wants to save his marriage, he loves his children and he cares about her as a friend. He told me divorce would destroy her. He probably can't bring himself to do that and it only makes me love him more that he is so caring for others.

 

 

 

Yes it's a change in my brain and I can't help it! Nor can he! I think he just felt nervous about sleeping with me. We touched sexually but he was worried about performing as he was on antidepressants.

 

Yes I am naive. I believe in love and romance. That doesn't make me a high schooler. I believe he does love her, but is not in love with her. He loves who she used to be. He didn't know she would be so hard to live with. I do understand human mating. He is so bonded to his children he must have a very long vasopressin gene, and we definitely bonded.

 

I would have left my H for him. I was on the point of doing it when he dumped me, I would have given up everything. I might have ruined my career as his wife probably would have made a scandal. I am financially dependent on my husband and we get along as coparents and friends. He isn't being hurt because he doesn't know and we were apart for most of the time I was in this relationship.

 

OMG!! Please tell me you don't have children! What kind of parent or example are you, if you are this screwed up. I tell you what, you want someone to blow smoke up your ass? Here goes........

 

YES, he is being brainwashed as we post, he's kept in the cellar with bread and water only. The Nazi wife has all the money, car keys, phones, computers locked up. She made him write hateful emails, letters,texts etc so she could respond to your pathetic begging, oops, I means your loving inquiries as to his state of mind etc.....

 

As soon as he gets a file and can unlock the handcuffs, over power the goon Nazi wife hired to guard him, he will jump on his white steed and sweep you off your feet........

 

And you both shall live happily never after.

[goodthingscome]

During the EMR he said he loved her.

After the EMR he said he didn't love her during the affair.

 

One is a lie. We don't know which one. Both were his words. He's now trying to save his marriage. Pretty good motivation to lie now. So there really is no way for us to know which is the lie which is why I say to ML to go by her gut feeling.

 

I vote for both of the statements as a lie. How's that? In fact how do we know he ever said it? Because his delusional MOW said he did? We all know that lying is one of the top 3 requirements in the cheaters handbook, right?

 

You can "say" whatever you want, doesn't make it true, but your "actions" do. His actions are screaming IT'S OVER!!! ML just isn't listening.

[CALOVELY]

OMG!! Please tell me you don't have children! What kind of parent or example are you, if you are this screwed up. I tell you what, you want someone to blow smoke up your ass? Here goes........

 

YES, he is being brainwashed as we post, he's kept in the cellar with bread and water only. The Nazi wife has all the money, car keys, phones, computers locked up. She made him write hateful emails, letters,texts etc so she could respond to your pathetic begging, oops, I means your loving inquiries as to his state of mind etc.....

 

As soon as he gets a file and can unlock the handcuffs, over power the goon Nazi wife hired to guard him, he will jump on his white steed and sweep you off your feet........

 

And you both shall live happily never after.

 

You left out the daily whippings. Don't forget about those.

 

Funny, for someone married to such a controlling person, he sure had the freedom to cheat. Hmmmm.

[MourningLosses]

JW I never met his family as they live a long way away (making him feel isolated and unsupported in wanting to end his marriage). He talked a lot about them and wanted me to know them. I wanted them to meet me before I was the "other woman". When it all came out and he at first said he would leave her they supported that they asked after my welfare, even told him he had made the right choice. They knew the marriage was doomed.

 

I am sure you guys had a relationship. If he said you didn't, then maybe he's gaslighting you, but in terms of loving you, he can say he didn't and you cannot say it's not the truth, you aren't him, you don't know how he feels. Did he ever actually say he loved you while in the A?

 

He did nothing BUT say he loved me for a year. Told me it was a certainty he would leave her. It was just logistics and the fact the baby was newly born. His new year resolution was to separate from her. I questioned how this was possible when they spent every waking minute together except when he was at work, and that's when he went silent. I pushed too hard I guess, I questioned why he hadn't come to see me (I know it would have been difficult to get her to agree to a trip but in the past he threatened her that I'd she objected it was all over between them).

 

He told me he loved me more than he had ever loved anyone, that everything before was just an historical accident.

 

Alice- I think it's so easy to lie in email. I want to look into his eyes and see if the emotion matches the words. If he really doesn't live me it should be easy. It should also be easy to apologize for lying to me.

 

I NEVER wanted to destroy the wife CALOVELY. I hoped she would move on an find someone who truly loved her and that we could share the children civilly even though we would never be friends. I hoped she would admit what he and his family could see, they just weren't meant to be.

 

What's so funny about caring about someone as a person but not beig in love with them? I have been like that about my husband for a long time.

 

My child is just fine. Loved MMs children, just loved them. She wrote poems to them and played with them. I have always protected all the kids from knowing there was any pain involved. Only the wife would have an interest in spilling her pain over the kids. I only wanted to protect them and him.

[whichwayisup]

During the EMR he said he loved her.

After the EMR he said he didn't love her during the affair.

 

One is a lie. We don't know which one. Both were his words. He's now trying to save his marriage. Pretty good motivation to lie now. So there really is no way for us to know which is the lie which is why I say to ML to go by her gut feeling.

 

Love or not, he still threw her under the bus. Love or not, he still has chosen to his wife and decided to stay married. His actions now say he wants and loves his wife MORE.

 

She needs to know if he loved her or not, well, obviously he did at some point but he may have fallen out of love with her. He changed his mind. People have a right to end things and move on...Affairs end. They aren't forever, just like some marriages..They end and aren't forever.

[jwi71]

JW I never met his family as they live a long way away (making him feel isolated and unsupported in wanting to end his marriage). He talked a lot about them and wanted me to know them. I wanted them to meet me before I was the "other woman". When it all came out and he at first said he would leave her they supported that they asked after my welfare, even told him he had made the right choice. They knew the marriage was doomed.

 

I kinda figured as much - that you hadn't actually met them. Turns out that's its distance so that makes sense.

Have you spoken to them or communicated online (chat, skype, facebook, etc)?

What direct contact have you had with them as distance is clearly an issue?

 

If the answer is none...we have a problem.

 

What I would like for you to do, when the emotions subside a bit, is eliminate all the hearsay. Just for grins. Well not really, you're not stupid and I know you know where I'm going here...

 

So, given that MM lied to you, we should discount all he says. We can't really trust it - there is always so demonstrable degree of doubt. And moreso than in conversations/relationships with single men (truly single, not lied to about single). Essentially, the breadth and depth of his dishonesty involved here is to such a degree that he has contaminated all the hearsay.

 

So...what do you know about his M and his family that doesn't come from him?

 

I think, and maybe I'm wrong, its close to nothing.

 

Yes? No?

 

Ultimately, when that brain regains control, is to see what you know.

You have already been blindsided. More than once I bet.

[MissBee]

I vote for both of the statements as a lie. How's that? In fact how do we know he ever said it? Because his delusional MOW said he did? We all know that lying is one of the top 3 requirements in the cheaters handbook, right?

 

You can "say" whatever you want, doesn't make it true, but your "actions" do. His actions are screaming IT'S OVER!!! ML just isn't listening.

 

That's what it boils down to. People say a lot of things...but it comes down to walking the walk versus talking the talk.

 

Even if MM said he loved her and even if he secretly does, he currently is telling her to leave him alone and he has chosen to be with his wife and has chosen to supposedly allow his wife to control him....so what is the big consolation in that?

 

ML he loved you at the time. But the A has run its course and now it's over and he does not want to be friends. I'm sorry. You have to mourn it and focus on your life and heal and work on your marriage/divorce your husband.

[MourningLosses]

I emailed his brother when I could get no reply from him. He replied to me with perfect politeness and no harshness. The difference is he's not under her influence. I wasn't asking them to be mean to his wife. I don't expect them to say those things to me. But clearly he wasn't going to treat me badly just because he was married and unhappy first.

[alexandria35]

I emailed his brother when I could get no reply from him. He replied to me with perfect politeness and no harshness. The difference is he's not under her influence. I wasn't asking them to be mean to his wife. I don't expect them to say those things to me. But clearly he wasn't going to treat me badly just because he was married and unhappy first.

 

And what did his brother say to you?

[whichwayisup]

I emailed his brother when I could get no reply from him. He replied to me with perfect politeness and no harshness. The difference is he's not under her influence. I wasn't asking them to be mean to his wife. I don't expect them to say those things to me. But clearly he wasn't going to treat me badly just because he was married and unhappy first.

 

His brother is going to be polite because this isn't his problem..He doesn't want to get involved in this dramatic situation. It serves him no purpose to be rude or to be mean to you.

 

You truly hate MM's wife, don't you..You think she's manipulated and fooled him into staying, like he has no say, and she's held a gun to his head.

The man has made a decision, yes, with the help of his wife, but he still chose her over you. I know that hurts but his actions are showing you who he's loyal to.

[MissBee]

JW I never met his family as they live a long way away (making him feel isolated and unsupported in wanting to end his marriage). He talked a lot about them and wanted me to know them. I wanted them to meet me before I was the "other woman". When it all came out and he at first said he would leave her they supported that they asked after my welfare, even told him he had made the right choice. They knew the marriage was doomed.

 

 

 

He did nothing BUT say he loved me for a year. Told me it was a certainty he would leave her. It was just logistics and the fact the baby was newly born. His new year resolution was to separate from her. I questioned how this was possible when they spent every waking minute together except when he was at work, and that's when he went silent. I pushed too hard I guess, I questioned why he hadn't come to see me (I know it would have been difficult to get her to agree to a trip but in the past he threatened her that I'd she objected it was all over between them).

 

He told me he loved me more than he had ever loved anyone, that everything before was just an historical accident.

 

Alice- I think it's so easy to lie in email. I want to look into his eyes and see if the emotion matches the words. If he really doesn't live me it should be easy. It should also be easy to apologize for lying to me.

 

I NEVER wanted to destroy the wife CALOVELY. I hoped she would move on an find someone who truly loved her and that we could share the children civilly even though we would never be friends. I hoped she would admit what he and his family could see, they just weren't meant to be.

 

What's so funny about caring about someone as a person but not beig in love with them? I have been like that about my husband for a long time.

 

My child is just fine. Loved MMs children, just loved them. She wrote poems to them and played with them. I have always protected all the kids from knowing there was any pain involved. Only the wife would have an interest in spilling her pain over the kids. I only wanted to protect them and him.

 

ML have you checked out the site I recommended yet? You should.

 

ML, maybe you should read about affairs. It seems as though you cannot wrap your head around the concept that sometimes an A is a fantasy and the MM promises the world and then some then never delivers. I get you are probably shell shocked...but hopefully you eventually come to realize that this happens a lot. Your MM seems absolutely no different and the only one shocked is you.

 

It tells a lot that you believe you're the one at fault and had you not pushed him, he'd have chosen you and magically the wife would go away and find another love and you'd share the kids. This was the best case scenario fantasy...but that isn't the reality. You STILL have said nothing about your marriage at all. How did you plan to end it before you and MM got together once and for all? It's not a case that his promises were true but you screwed up...chances are they weren't.

 

Please read that site and read up on affairs with an open mind and critical thinking and realize your story reads like many others....full of empty promises.

Edited August 9, 2012 by MissBee

[whichwayisup]

In a year or two from now you should re-read your thread. You'll probably be shocked at your thread and be in a different place, different frame of mind. How you feel now is not how things are. I hope that makes sense.

[CALOVELY]

JW I never met his family as they live a long way away (making him feel isolated and unsupported in wanting to end his marriage). He talked a lot about them and wanted me to know them. I wanted them to meet me before I was the "other woman". When it all came out and he at first said he would leave her they supported that they asked after my welfare, even told him he had made the right choice. They knew the marriage was doomed.

 

 

 

He did nothing BUT say he loved me for a year. Told me it was a certainty he would leave her. It was just logistics and the fact the baby was newly born. His new year resolution was to separate from her. I questioned how this was possible when they spent every waking minute together except when he was at work, and that's when he went silent. I pushed too hard I guess, I questioned why he hadn't come to see me (I know it would have been difficult to get her to agree to a trip but in the past he threatened her that I'd she objected it was all over between them).

 

He told me he loved me more than he had ever loved anyone, that everything before was just an historical accident.

 

Alice- I think it's so easy to lie in email. I want to look into his eyes and see if the emotion matches the words. If he really doesn't live me it should be easy. It should also be easy to apologize for lying to me.

 

I NEVER wanted to destroy the wife CALOVELY. I hoped she would move on an find someone who truly loved her and that we could share the children civilly even though we would never be friends. I hoped she would admit what he and his family could see, they just weren't meant to be.

 

What's so funny about caring about someone as a person but not beig in love with them? I have been like that about my husband for a long time.

 

My child is just fine. Loved MMs children, just loved them. She wrote poems to them and played with them. I have always protected all the kids from knowing there was any pain involved. Only the wife would have an interest in spilling her pain over the kids. I only wanted to protect them and him.

 

I cannot believe what I just read. You never meant to destroy her yet you literally said you hoped she would become so insecure that she would drive him away. In other words, you want this woman to suffer on a daily basis worrying and getting sick about what has happened to her marriage that she becomes so paranoid that her husband flees to your waiting arms. On top of that, you have your kids play with hers and you think this wouldn't cause her any pain? My God woman, do you have any compassion AT ALL?

 

This is sick, just sick. Now you are pissed that she didn't take the high road? Why the hell should she, did you?

[MissBee]

And what did his brother say to you?

 

I'd like to know as well....

 

I also am curious about what the brother said to MM about it.

 

Maybe the whole family is on high alert thinking ML is a bunny boiler and are prepping for a drawn out battle with ML climbing Mount Everest to get MM to admit he loves her....

[whichwayisup]

I cannot believe what I just read. You never meant to destroy her yet you literally said you hoped she would become so insecure that she would drive him away. In other words, you want this woman to suffer on a daily basis worrying and getting sick about what has happened to her marriage that she becomes so paranoid that her husband flees to your waiting arms. On top of that, you have your kids play with hers and you think this wouldn't cause her any pain? My God woman, do you have any compassion AT ALL?

 

This is sick, just sick. Now you are pissed that she didn't take the high road? Why the hell should she, did you?

 

This is why I hope she comes back in a year so she can read her thread again. Just to show how unhealthy this situation is and how her thinking and processing isn't so clouded and unclear. This isn't normal. This is addicted obessesd love feeling that can explode into something really bad when push comes to shove..

[MourningLosses]

We thought meeting each others family would bring some reality into our dopamine laden brains. That's why we introduced the children. I was reluctant to meet his newborn but he insisted. The older kids just loved each other. They could have told their mother, they're old enough. We didn't ask them not to. It was just chance that they never did. Fate if you like.

[CALOVELY]

I emailed his brother when I could get no reply from him. He replied to me with perfect politeness and no harshness. The difference is he's not under her influence. I wasn't asking them to be mean to his wife. I don't expect them to say those things to me. But clearly he wasn't going to treat me badly just because he was married and unhappy first.

 

So you are stalking his family. Better get a lawyer on retainer because you are going to need one. The more I read your story the more I think his wife is a God damned saint. Count your blessings that she is only crap talking about you. You cheat with her husband while she is pregnant, collude with him to get rid of her, bring your kids to play house with her kids, hope to drive her crazy enough that she throws him out, wants her to slink away and find a "new man" and then when you don't think enough pain has been inflicted, you drag her brother in law in to it. Honey, I'd be serving jail time if you did that to me. She DID take the high road.

[MissBee]

We thought meeting each others family would bring some reality into our dopamine laden brains. That's why we introduced the children. I was reluctant to meet his newborn but he insisted. The older kids just loved each other. They could have told their mother, they're old enough. We didn't ask them not to. It was just chance that they never did. Fate if you like.

 

Did he introduce you as his gf? Did you kiss or hold hands and act romantic around them?

[MourningLosses]

No, of course not MissBee. We just told them we were friends.

 

The first time I actually invited the whole family, her included. But she was 3 days out of hospital after the birth so obviously she wasn't going to go. She wasn't pleased but she didn't like to deny the older kids a playtime away from the new baby. So she let him go. But he said after that we couldn't do it like that so we used to take the kids after school to the park or something. She was either home with the baby or had gone back to work.

 

Point is we never lied to the kids but no we didn't say we were planning to live together. Obviously.