Wife with OCD now refusing therapy...

[giotto]

As you might remember, my very first thread on LS was about my wife promising to go to therapy to solve her OCD (obsessive thoughts) problem.

 

We had a very depressing (well, for me) conversation the other evening. We are on holiday, so I was hoping my wife would be in the mood for a bit of sex. That remained just wishful thinking (no surprise, there), but she also told me that SHE has to decide when we have sex, because she can't just switch herself on, so to speak. She also said that things will never change. Her needs are more important than mine, because she is giving her body to me. She finally closed the conversation by saying that she is not going to therapy because her sister has the same thing (no idea!) and after years of expensive therapy she is no closer to getting any better. Well, I was astounded. I was so shocked I could not find the words to ask the right questions. I repeated the usual stuff... it's not just sex, blah, blah, blah. She replied that she loves me, but she would understand if I left her.

 

Now, a few months ago she promised she would go, because her illness was destroying our relationship and it wasn't fair on me. I have no idea what's changed.

 

I think I've had it. It's been going on for 10 years and I'm at the end of my tether. But I do feel guilty about leaving a mentally ill person, and the kids. What can I do? I'm pretty depressed right now. Can't see myself living with my wife, like this, for the rest of my life. I'm still only 49. But what if she gets worse? I still care very much about her. We were 22 when we got together.

[frozensprouts]

Dealing with someone with a mental illness can be really hard, and you can't make them seek treatment if they don't want to. Even if you can somehow manage to get them into treatment, if they aren't receptive to getting help, there's a good chance it won't work (I know this from a different context...you can't make someone seek help and get better if they don't want to, or if they feel they don't have a problem)...

 

OCD can be difficult to treat, and it's not simply a matter of taking meds. and getting better...there's usually a therapy component as well, and the person has to be receptive to it...it doesn't sound like your wife is at all receptive.

 

It's a sad situation, but it sounds like you have done everything you can to make it better... do you feel that you have? If s, then maybe it's time to accept that things aren't going to change and to begin the process of allowing yourself to let go.

 

I hope you can find a way to do so that works best for you, your children and wife as well.

[giotto]

thanks, frozensprouts. The whole process - from her shutting me out to admitting the problem and agreeing to go on therapy - has taken 10 years. I was very happy she agreed, because I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. This is devastating news for me and I don't know what to do. One part of me wants to stay to try and help her and I would miss the kids so much it's almost unbearable - on the other hand I feel I'm losing my own sanity. Refusing to get better and carrying on sweeping everything under the carpet is not the way I would lead my life. My attitude is 'if something is broken, try and fix it'. The lack of communication has really impacted on our relationship, with me being less than helpful at times, not knowing what was going on. It was always "there's nothing wrong" excuse, like a broken record. I had to threaten divorce to get some reaction and I was blaming myself for everything. If I decide to go, it will be very difficult for me to break the news to her. As I said before, I care about her very much and the last thing I would like to do is inflicting even more pain on her. But I don't understand how she is prepared to destroy our family for her selfishness. I know she is ill, but there is a way out. Why not try? Really depressed right now,

[frozensprouts]

thanks, frozensprouts. The whole process - from her shutting me out to admitting the problem and agreeing to go on therapy - has taken 10 years. I was very happy she agreed, because I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. This is devastating news for me and I don't know what to do. One part of me wants to stay to try and help her and I would miss the kids so much it's almost unbearable - on the other hand I feel I'm losing my own sanity. Refusing to get better and carrying on sweeping everything under the carpet is not the way I would lead my life. My attitude is 'if something is broken, try and fix it'. The lack of communication has really impacted on our relationship, with me being less than helpful at times, not knowing what was going on. It was always "there's nothing wrong" excuse, like a broken record. I had to threaten divorce to get some reaction and I was blaming myself for everything. If I decide to go, it will be very difficult for me to break the news to her. As I said before, I care about her very much and the last thing I would like to do is inflicting even more pain on her. But I don't understand how she is prepared to destroy our family for her selfishness. I know she is ill, but there is a way out. Why not try? Really depressed right now,

 

whether it's her illness that makes her not want to seek help, or it's something else, the fact remains...she is not willing to put in the hard work it will take for her to get better. She can't do it for you, she can't do it for your kids, she has to do it for herself, and she doesn't want to.

 

This doesn't mean you stop caring about her, or that you are a bad person or that you've left her behind. You've done so much to reach her, and you can't, because for whatvere reason, she won't let you. But she is, after all, and adult and quite capable of deciding what she wants to do i her life.

 

She's not a horrible person, and neither are you. But it does sound like you two just aren't able to be together...sometimes love isn't enough... I won't tell you not to feel guilty, as you probably will anyway...but it sounds like, at the end of the day, you won't have too much of a problem with the face looking back at you from the mirror...

 

Is it possible to tell her that you are done, but that you want the family to attend counseling to make the transition as easy as possible on all of you?

[giotto]

Is it possible to tell her that you are done, but that you want the family to attend counseling to make the transition as easy as possible on all of you?

 

I will tell her, but I think she already knows. I'm not sure what I am going to do. We might just separate with me living in the house. I don't hate her and I want to help her, but I need to lift this massive weight off my shoulders, or I'll break at some point. We'll have another conversation when we get home. I just can't live like this anymore. It's not a marriage, it's just two people looking after kids. Having a lovely wife and not being able to have a proper relationship anymore is just torture. I need a clean cut.

 

I'm sure there will be some people saying 'don't give up'. But I've been trying for so long that I'm mentally and physically exhausted right now.

[frozensprouts]

I will tell her, but I think she already knows. I'm not sure what I am going to do. We might just separate with me living in the house. I don't hate her and I want to help her, but I need to lift this massive weight off my shoulders, or I'll break at some point. We'll have another conversation when we get home. I just can't live like this anymore. It's not a marriage, it's just two people looking after kids. Having a lovely wife and not being able to have a proper relationship anymore is just torture. I need a clean cut.

 

I'm sure there will be some people saying 'don't give up'. But I've been trying for so long that I'm mentally and physically exhausted right now.

 

usually, I'd be one who'd think that keeping a marriage together is important, but in your situation, it sounds like you have tried everything you can think of. But it also sounds as if you are the only one trying, and a marriage like that is not sustainable.

 

It does sound like you still have feelings for her, and that you may always have good feelings for her...the problem is that if you stay with her out of guilt, those feelings may change to resentment and anger...probably best to leave now while the feelings are still good.

 

you've fought the good fight for as long as you could...now you're tired and need to rest...as long as she isn't willing to make changes herself, if you stay with her, nothing will change for you.

[TaraMaiden]

I'm sure there will be some people saying 'don't give up'. But I've been trying for so long that I'm mentally and physically exhausted right now.

 

(((Hugs))) giotto.

I get it.

I'm so sorry.

 

Will this come as a shock to her, or will she be resigned to it, do you think?

[dreamingoftigers]

As a last possible options:

 

1) Amen Brain Clinics in the States. They do an actual SPECT scan on the brain to pinpoint what is malfunctioning. They results can be very dramatic instead if playing guess and check will pills and therapy. The goal and destination are obvious and measurable.

 

2) EFT therapy for marital issues where W might see the value in the marriage etc and volunteer again for treatment.

 

3) Proclaim a separation but really trial it out for 3-6 months before making ANY final decisions. Does she not work? What does she do with her time? IMO I have found that when one spouse picks up a lot of the slack for the other, the more lax one paradoxically starts to view the relationship as disposable.

[Els]

She finally closed the conversation by saying that she is not going to therapy because her sister has the same thing (no idea!) and after years of expensive therapy she is no closer to getting any better.

 

This stood out a little to me, as it seemed strange that she would state it that way. Are finances a problem to her right now? If you share finances, ignore the following - but if you don't, I think you should tell her that you feel it is worth the cost to just try, and you are willing to foot it.

 

If she still says no, then you know it was just an excuse and she just isn't interested in working on your marriage anymore. If she says yes, then perhaps she genuinely was afraid she couldn't afford it.

[Radu]

I've read your threads and i know what you've done for her.

 

I think you should leave her because she thinks her needs are more important than the needs of the marriage.

She also doesn't give pardon the expression '2 sh*ts' about the marriage, or else she would be desperate to go to therapy.

I don't think there are any needs, it's just an excuse, a way to rephrase 'i'm a scared little girl and i don't care about the love you game me all of these 10yrs, i get my way'.

 

You also mentioned a while back that you think she is using the 'leave me if you don't like it' angle as a way to keep you in check.

If that's the case she will go into hysterical bonding the moment she sees you are serious.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Radu

[KathyM]

I would recommend a temporary separation--and with you living separately from her, not in the same house. Maybe if she gets a feel for the reality of living without you, she will be motivated to do something to improve the situation. Right now, she doesn't value you enough to try to change. She needs to feel the loss that her stubbornness will cause. Then minimal contact with her, and only to arrange to pick up the kids to spend time with them. I think she needs to feel the loss, in order to start to value a relationship with you again. That doesn't mean you go out acting like a single dude at this point. Just move out and let her experience what life is truly like without you. Maybe this will jolt her into an awareness of how much she and the family needs you there, and she'll realize she needs to do what it takes to bring you back. I hope it works out for you.

[giotto]

thank you very much for the responses... I will reply in the morning since I'm a bit tired right now and my mind is not that clear...

[KathyM]

I have an alternative for you that you may want to try before doing any drastic step of separation. For the next two months, I want to suggest that you work on building back the positives in your marriage apart from sex. One such positive is touch. Give her a hug and kiss in the morning before going to work and upon arriving home at night. Stroke her hair, hold her hand, put your arm around her lovingly while on the couch. Offer her a NSA massage at night. Another positive I'm suggesting you add is talking--say something nice to her before you leave in the morning. Call her on your lunch break to tell her a funny joke, or tell her about something interesting you heard. Visit with her when you get home from work to ask how her day went, and talk about your day. Be sure to keep it positive. Plan a fun date with her this weekend, and every weekend for the next two months. Don't press her for sex unless she instigates it. Maybe she'll see such a drastic change in your attitude towards her that she'll bring up the subject of sex herself since she sees how much you are trying. I know a couple who literally brought their sexless marriage back from the dead when one of the partners tried these marriage building tactics, and now their sex life is wonderful. This is meant to build your marriage and hopefully get your wife to value it more and develop the attitude that she wants to please you. Somewhere along the line, she has decided pleasing you is not important. This is a way that you may be able to at least build back her affection and value of you, and by that, she may be more inclined to make more of an effort to please you as well. It should get the dialogue going at least, and maybe when she sees the effort you are making to improve the marriage, she will feel compelled to make an effort herself. Oftentimes, when one partner changes, the other one feels compelled to change as well. Try this for two months. NSA. No demand for sex. Just give her these "gifts", and see what the result is. At the very least, if you do end up leaving eventually, she will see it as even more of a loss, and then be more motivated to do what it takes to get you back. Two months is not much time to invest in this one last attempt to fix your marriage.

[Kelemvor]

I thought about a long post... then thought better of it.

 

Separation. Used as a wake up call. It will be difficult for both of you but will force her hand and then you will truly know if the marriage is worth it to her. Quit feeling sorry for her or seeing her as psychologically handicapped. We all have our hang ups. Who knows what a shrink would say about me if I gave them the chance. If she still does nothing during the separation then that speaks volumes and you can divorce knowing that it probably was inevitable and certainly in your best interest after prolonged efforts to repair the relationship.

 

Honestly, I think that's your best avenue. I think you've tried the whole spectrum of touchy/feely/coaxing route long enough. Enough is enough. Some women don't get that until it's in ammonia capsule form in front of their nose.

[giotto]

 

Will this come as a shock to her, or will she be resigned to it, do you think?

 

I'm up and feel fresher this morning! It was her birthday yesterday, but I felt obviously rather muted about it and she probably picked up the vibes...

 

Regarding you question: no, it won't be a shock to her, since she has stated very often that she would understand if I left. What I don't understand is the fact that she is prepared to sacrifice the marriage like that. I can only think that she doesn't care about me that much, beyond affection, despite her claims of "love". Maybe she has a strange concept of love!

 

I've been falling out of love too... there's only a certain amount of rejection I can take. I was raised by a very cold mother and a violent father. That was enough rejection for me. Seeing my wife turning really cold towards me has been devastating. Maybe it's me?

[giotto]

As a last possible options:

 

1) Amen Brain Clinics in the States. They do an actual SPECT scan on the brain to pinpoint what is malfunctioning. They results can be very dramatic instead if playing guess and check will pills and therapy. The goal and destination are obvious and measurable.

 

2) EFT therapy for marital issues where W might see the value in the marriage etc and volunteer again for treatment.

 

 

At the moment she's stated very clearly she doesn't want any therapy and things will never change. She said it like that...

 

3) Proclaim a separation but really trial it out for 3-6 months before making ANY final decisions. Does she not work? What does she do with her time? IMO I have found that when one spouse picks up a lot of the slack for the other, the more lax one paradoxically starts to view the relationship as disposable.

 

She does work, although she makes one third of what I make. I offered to pay...

[giotto]

This stood out a little to me, as it seemed strange that she would state it that way. Are finances a problem to her right now? If you share finances, ignore the following - but if you don't, I think you should tell her that you feel it is worth the cost to just try, and you are willing to foot it.

 

If she still says no, then you know it was just an excuse and she just isn't interested in working on your marriage anymore. If she says yes, then perhaps she genuinely was afraid she couldn't afford it.

 

As I said, finances are not a problem. I offered to pay for therapy. She said ok, then she changed her mind. Don't know why. I think she feels safe like this. She has developed her defence mechanism and doesn't want to disturb it, to the point that she is prepared to let her husband go. I understand it in a way, but if I had the same and really loved my wife, I would do anything in my power to save the marriage. This is why I think our marriage is not that important to her anymore.

[giotto]

I've read your threads and i know what you've done for her.

 

I think you should leave her because she thinks her needs are more important than the needs of the marriage.

She also doesn't give pardon the expression '2 sh*ts' about the marriage, or else she would be desperate to go to therapy.

I don't think there are any needs, it's just an excuse, a way to rephrase 'i'm a scared little girl and i don't care about the love you game me all of these 10yrs, i get my way'.

 

You also mentioned a while back that you think she is using the 'leave me if you don't like it' angle as a way to keep you in check.

If that's the case she will go into hysterical bonding the moment she sees you are serious.

 

well, you've described it quite well. She is not a malicious person, just very selfish and too self-absorbed. She's had a difficult childhood with her parents. Her sister is the same, to the point that her husband left her 10 years ago.

 

But the 'I would understand if you left' statement is a very clever escamotage to keep me in check. Because I don't want to leave the family. So, I'm stuck!

[giotto]

I have an alternative for you that you may want to try before doing any drastic step of separation. For the next two months, I want to suggest that you work on building back the positives in your marriage apart from sex. One such positive is touch. Give her a hug and kiss in the morning before going to work and upon arriving home at night. Stroke her hair, hold her hand, put your arm around her lovingly while on the couch. Offer her a NSA massage at night. Another positive I'm suggesting you add is talking--say something nice to her before you leave in the morning. Call her on your lunch break to tell her a funny joke, or tell her about something interesting you heard. Visit with her when you get home from work to ask how her day went, and talk about your day. Be sure to keep it positive. Plan a fun date with her this weekend, and every weekend for the next two months. Don't press her for sex unless she instigates it. Maybe she'll see such a drastic change in your attitude towards her that she'll bring up the subject of sex herself since she sees how much you are trying. I know a couple who literally brought their sexless marriage back from the dead when one of the partners tried these marriage building tactics, and now their sex life is wonderful. This is meant to build your marriage and hopefully get your wife to value it more and develop the attitude that she wants to please you. Somewhere along the line, she has decided pleasing you is not important. This is a way that you may be able to at least build back her affection and value of you, and by that, she may be more inclined to make more of an effort to please you as well. It should get the dialogue going at least, and maybe when she sees the effort you are making to improve the marriage, she will feel compelled to make an effort herself. Oftentimes, when one partner changes, the other one feels compelled to change as well. Try this for two months. NSA. No demand for sex. Just give her these "gifts", and see what the result is. At the very least, if you do end up leaving eventually, she will see it as even more of a loss, and then be more motivated to do what it takes to get you back. Two months is not much time to invest in this one last attempt to fix your marriage.

 

My answer to your post will be very brief, because I've tried everything. She is very black and white about it. Basically, take me as I am or you can go, because I'm never going to change. I could do what you say, but it doesn't work with her. It never did.

[Radu]

On the former page you mentioned both how your mom and dad were and questioned if it is something about you, and not her.

 

It could be, in the sense that you attract these ppl, may i suggest after the divorce to find yourself a cheerfull, bubbly girl of about 35 ?

 

 

PS: My parents were serious introverts and cultivated a mentality of 'standtall, have faith in yourself, ppl will accept you as you are'. You can see why your wife's example scares me, what if i end up like her and what if i end up picking a girl like her ?

[giotto]

I thought about a long post... then thought better of it.

 

Separation. Used as a wake up call. It will be difficult for both of you but will force her hand and then you will truly know if the marriage is worth it to her. Quit feeling sorry for her or seeing her as psychologically handicapped. We all have our hang ups. Who knows what a shrink would say about me if I gave them the chance. If she still does nothing during the separation then that speaks volumes and you can divorce knowing that it probably was inevitable and certainly in your best interest after prolonged efforts to repair the relationship.

 

Honestly, I think that's your best avenue. I think you've tried the whole spectrum of touchy/feely/coaxing route long enough. Enough is enough. Some women don't get that until it's in ammonia capsule form in front of their nose.

 

Tried that. We actually separated for a while last year. When I was ready to pack my bags, we compromised. It only lasted about a month and then it was back to normal. When I mentioned it, she claimed I was being aggressive again. She hates conflict. At the time of the separation I didn't know what exactly was wrong with her. Now I do and it's even bleaker, if possible!

 

As a catholic, the guilt of leaving her would devour me, that's why, despite what some of you said in their post, I can't leave the house. I think we will end up living separate lives until the little one (11) flees the nest. It's a shame, because I thought things were getting better. But obviously she was just telling me half truths to keep me quiet...

 

Sorry about the ranting. The thing is I was really hoping that she would go to therapy at some point, but this strong refusal now leaves me with no options.

[giotto]

On the former page you mentioned both how your mom and dad were and questioned if it is something about you, and not her.

 

It could be, in the sense that you attract these ppl, may i suggest after the divorce to find yourself a cheerfull, bubbly girl of about 35 ?

 

 

PS: My parents were serious introverts and cultivated a mentality of 'standtall, have faith in yourself, ppl will accept you as you are'. You can see why your wife's example scares me, what if i end up like her and what if i end up picking a girl like her ?

 

I agree with you. I would say 'you go for what you know'. I suppose she was a bit like that when we met, but we were young and she was funny, affectionate, loving. Then the OCD started, half way through our marriage, but before that she was already showing signs of not coping very well. But the biggest problem in our relationship has been the total lack of communication. I had no idea what was going on, so I put pressure on her (for sex, mainly) and made things 300 times worse. Had I known, things would be different, but then I would probably be divorced by now.

[TaraMaiden]

giotto, you HAVE to leave.

your staying there simply means that you are giving tacit approval for this existence to continue, and that's simply not fair on you.

Catholic or no Catholic, staying, is completely irrational.

I married my ex- in a full RC Nuptial Mass. Whistles, bells, communion - the lot. We still divorced, and we had 2 younger kids at the time.

It really is for the best - if your child is only 11 - you really want to subject all of you to another 7 (at the least!) years of this?

 

What does this teach your child?

There are times when really, you need to evaluate and rationalise things logically, without the Religious Guilt card...I mean, really - it's not serving you well, is it?

 

Look at it this way:

It's like you've had your hand through a hole in a high fence, holding onto a rope, which at the other end, is attached to a skittish stallion - but you have to hold on, whatever happens.... then the rope goes still, and slack.

 

You've known for ages and ages, that the stallion made a run for it, looong ago.

 

Why are you still holding the rope?

[giotto]

giotto, you HAVE to leave.

your staying there simply means that you are giving tacit approval for this existence to continue, and that's simply not fair on you.

Catholic or no Catholic, staying, is completely irrational.

I married my ex- in a full RC Nuptial Mass. Whistles, bells, communion - the lot. We still divorced, and we had 2 younger kids at the time.

It really is for the best - if your child is only 11 - you really want to subject all of you to another 7 (at the least!) years of this?

 

What does this teach your child?

There are times when really, you need to evaluate and rationalise things logically, without the Religious Guilt card...I mean, really - it's not serving you well, is it?

 

Look at it this way:

It's like you've had your hand through a hole in a high fence, holding onto a rope, which at the other end, is attached to a skittish stallion - but you have to hold on, whatever happens.... then the rope goes still, and slack.

 

You've known for ages and ages, that the stallion made a run for it, looong ago.

 

Why are you still holding the rope?

 

Good analogy, Tara... The fact is: I don't want to leave the family, because my children are not the problem and I don't see why I should be punished for that. I will probably suggest a separation and sleep in my office, like the last few weeks, but I'm determined to stay put. I will end our relationship. I know that many will say it's not ideal and silly, but I don't think I can make that big step as yet.

 

Also, because I didn't know what was going on, I feel that I have somehow contributed to this mess, albeit unintentionally. But what can you do if your wife is not telling you what's going on? I'm very tired of having to deal with the unknown, feeling it's all my fault, feeling that my needs are not important, not feeling appreciated. Her needs have always been number one. It's been horrible, believe me.

[TaraMaiden]

This isn't a family.

this is a guy, living under the same roof as a woman he clearly has little connection with, with children they both had.

 

A Family is defined as:

 

fam·i·ly (fm-l, fml)

n. pl. fam·i·lies

1.

a. A fundamental social group in society typically consisting of one or two parents and their children.

b. Two or more people who share goals and values, have long-term commitments to one another, and reside usually in the same dwelling place

 

and that's from an on-line dictionary.

What you're doing, is precisely what my ex- H and I did. We were two adults with children in common, living under one roof.

to all intents and purposes, to everyone else, we were almost akin to the Brady Bunch. And we lived the lie. And every single waking moment, we knew it was a lie.

And it hurt.

 

You know what?

Kids are resilient. People don't give children, in situations like these, enough credit.

It's important how you speak with them, relay information to them, and include them in discussions. It's important you acknowledge how mature they are and connect with them appropriately.

but they're not dumb.

We related well with our children, and my daughter's question to me, made me realise how stupid WE had been, as over-protective adults.

"Mamma, I'm just wondering why the hell you didn't do this sooner...."

 

You have to take responsibility for your own reluctance, and really examine where the impetus lies, because I promise you, as one who has been in a situation far too similar to yours for comfort - we had to do the same.

sometimes, we become so accustomed to the status quo, we don't want to break it, because you know what?

It's inconvenient.

 

Don't for chrissakes, settle for 'convenience'.

 

Really; huge regret.