Wife with OCD now refusing therapy...

[xxoo]

giotto, as sad as I am to hear that things are none better between you and your wife, I am glad to hear that you are finding some peace and making changes for yourself. You deserve it!

[KathyM]

thanks... I think you are right, again. The thing is, for her to be able to experience that, it would mean another sacrifice for me. Moving out and missing out on the kids. Well, no thanks!

I understand no matter what you do, you will be making a sacrifice. I realize you don't hold out any hope that anything will change with your wife no matter what you do. I'm still suggesting you leave, because that is the only thing that has a chance of motivating her to take you seriously. I know it's a risk. Maybe you would rather make sure you are there full time for your kids, even if that means you are sacrificing yourself. I just don't think it's healthy for your kids to see you and your wife living as roommates with no real relationship. But I understand you wanting to stay for the kids. I'm just a believer in doing whatever it takes to get a marriage back on track, and temporarily separating is the only thing I can see as having any chance of working.

[giotto]

I understand no matter what you do, you will be making a sacrifice. I realize you don't hold out any hope that anything will change with your wife no matter what you do. I'm still suggesting you leave, because that is the only thing that has a chance of motivating her to take you seriously. I know it's a risk. Maybe you would rather make sure you are there full time for your kids, even if that means you are sacrificing yourself. I just don't think it's healthy for your kids to see you and your wife living as roommates with no real relationship. But I understand you wanting to stay for the kids. I'm just a believer in doing whatever it takes to get a marriage back on track, and temporarily separating is the only thing I can see as having any chance of working.

 

yes, I know, but, as you also know, I've tried everything. I'm just tired of it! She's obviously happy the way she is. Yes, moving out might hurt her, but then she might try to change just to keep me there, not because she really wants to. She's done that before. Also, she might go to therapy, but that might take years. I'm just at the end of my rope. I can't take her burden anymore. I need a break, in whichever form. The one I've chosen at the moment is the easy one. We'll see what happens. And I had a very nice night sleep last night...

[KathyM]

yes, I know, but, as you also know, I've tried everything. I'm just tired of it! She's obviously happy the way she is. Yes, moving out might hurt her, but then she might try to change just to keep me there, not because she really wants to. She's done that before. Also, she might go to therapy, but that might take years. I'm just at the end of my rope. I can't take her burden anymore. I need a break, in whichever form. The one I've chosen at the moment is the easy one. We'll see what happens. And I had a very nice night sleep last night...

I understand. I don't see how moving to the office is going to help you, but you do what you feel you have to do. I admire your faithfulness. A man like you is a rare find. It's too bad your wife doesn't appreciate that.

[TaraMaiden]

Why is your daughter in the annexe?

Has she been a naughty girl?

How difficult would it be to get internet in there?

Can't you do it remotely?

[giotto]

Why is your daughter in the annexe?

Has she been a naughty girl?

How difficult would it be to get internet in there?

Can't you do it remotely?

 

No, she's not been naughty. She is back from uni and she lives there when she is back, so my other daughter can have her own room. Moving there would mean depriving my daughter of her room and she would have to share again. It would be unfair to her to go back on our decision.

 

I can get Internet there, obviously, but because of the reasons above, I'm not going to do that. We are also just renting the annex. It belongs to other people.

 

I have genuine reasons for sleeping in my office. Because of my back problems, I can't sleep in our bed. Its mattress is not good enough. Also, my teenager son is in the room next door and he is up all night on his computer (summer holidays!) and he is noisy. I'm a light sleeper and get woken up every 5 minutes. We are getting a new mattress, but because of the noise I could not sleep there anyway. Because I can't sleep! Also, I've shared a room all my life. First with my brother and then the wife. Sleeping on my own is just fantastic.

 

One last thing. Didn't have a great childhood because of my violent father and very cold mother. My brother was a nightmare too. I've experienced rejection for most of my early life, until I met my wife. My marriage turns out to be a massive rejection exercise too. To be honest, it's just too much now. I don't want to be emotionally involved with anybody, apart from my kids, obviously. If people don't care about me, so be it. I'm not going to put up with it anymore. I'm nearly 50. Long enough!

[giotto]

I understand. I don't see how moving to the office is going to help you, but you do what you feel you have to do. I admire your faithfulness. A man like you is a rare find. It's too bad your wife doesn't appreciate that.

 

thanks... I think she does appreciate me, but... I don't know! I suspect she is not in love with me anymore, regardless of what she says. She does say she loves me, but she has a funny way of showing it to me! She did say in the past that she didn't love me like the first years of our relationship. She said that love changes. I was shocked! Didn't change for me! She said it like it was a given. She also said that many couple our age don't have sex anymore. I really don't know where she is getting this info from... I was incredibly in love with my wife, but it's all gone now. Shame. I never thought it would happen to me.

[KathyM]

thanks... I think she does appreciate me, but... I don't know! I suspect she is not in love with me anymore, regardless of what she says. She does say she loves me, but she has a funny way of showing it to me! She did say in the past that she didn't love me like the first years of our relationship. She said that love changes. I was shocked! Didn't change for me! She said it like it was a given. She also said that many couple our age don't have sex anymore. I really don't know where she is getting this info from... I was incredibly in love with my wife, but it's all gone now. Shame. I never thought it would happen to me.

That's too bad. Sexual intimacy is how men feel loved in a marriage, and when you take that away, it creates an emotional distance between the partners which affects other aspects of the marriage. Unfortunately, your wife is right about the fact that many married couples in their 50s rarely have sex. Almost 47% of married couples in their 50s only have sex a few times a year, or not at all.

[giotto]

Almost 47% of married couples in their 50s only have sex a few times a year, or not at all.

 

She is not even getting that, now... Regarding the intimacy, you are completely right. She took it away from me, without telling me why. I suppose she was too busy managing her own problems. That lead to me putting her under pressure, which made it even worse. I guess that was the biggest mistake I made, but it's difficult to know what to do when you are rejected and you wife doesn't tell you why! It was like talking to the wall. Too bad!

[CarrieT]

Almost 47% of married couples in their 50s only have sex a few times a year, or not at all.

 

Please cite where you get that statistic.

 

I believe it to be incorrect as reported by Kinsey which offers the following statistics:

 

Not in the past year: 20.6%

A few times a year to monthly: 25%

A few times a month to weekly: 38.3%

2 to 3 times a week: 9.5%

4 or more times a week: 0%

[Radu]

Please cite where you get that statistic.

 

I believe it to be incorrect as reported by Kinsey which offers the following statistics:

 

Not in the past year: 20.6%

A few times a year to monthly: 25%

A few times a month to weekly: 38.3%

2 to 3 times a week: 9.5%

4 or more times a week: 0%

 

20.6+25 is 45.6% ... pretty damn close tbh.

[KathyM]

Please cite where you get that statistic.

 

I believe it to be incorrect as reported by Kinsey which offers the following statistics:

 

Not in the past year: 20.6%

A few times a year to monthly: 25%

A few times a month to weekly: 38.3%

2 to 3 times a week: 9.5%

4 or more times a week: 0%

I got my statistic from the same source that you did--the Kinsey Report. 45.6% of people in their 50s have sex a few times a year or not at all. I said almost 47% instead of almost 46%, since that is how I remembered it. Whether it's 46% or 47% doesn't change the fact that almost half of married people in that age range are having sex very infrequently. A few times a year or not at all (a few meaning anywhere from once a year to the maximum of 12 times a year).

[CarrieT]

I got my statistic from the same source that you did--the Kinsey Report. 45.6% of people in their 50s have sex a few times a year or not at all. I said almost 47% instead of almost 46%, since that is how I remembered it. Whether it's 46% or 47% doesn't change the fact that almost half of married people in that age range are having sex very infrequently. A few times a year or not at all (a few meaning anywhere from once a year to the maximum of 12 times a year).

 

You are right - my apologies.

[giotto]

She doesn't want to have sex?

 

She has a sister with the exact same problem?

 

They don't get along with her parents?

 

If this isn't an indicator of childhood sexual abuse, I don't know what is.

 

it wasn't sexual abuse... just not very well functioning parents. I can't go into details, but there were good reasons, and not the ones you are talking about.

[Radu]

it wasn't sexual abuse... just not very well functioning parents. I can't go into details, but there were good reasons, and not the ones you are talking about.

 

I suspect that your plan to completely withhold affection will unnerve her.

Maybe even have her long for it.

[giotto]

I suspect that your plan to completely withhold affection will unnerve her.

Maybe even have her long for it.

 

I think she won't like it. She doesn't like sleeping on her own. Some days ago, before the holiday, she asked me when I was going back to the bedroom. She even said she suspected I was having an affair! No, she'll hate it, but she can't have her cake and eat it too! Personally, I can't have just half intimacy, the bit she enjoys. For me, it's all or nothing. Sleeping next to your wife thinking she is out of reach is just torture. The problem has become so big that I can't solve it. I have to have a clear cut.

 

On holiday, because of the hot weather, my fingers swell up a bit and I had to take my wedding ring off. When I do that, she always jokes about it... like, uh, is our marriage over? You've taken your ring off! She knows I'm unhappy, but she doesn't care. At the end of the day, this is what it boils down to.

[giotto]

Does she let you touch her at all?

 

Maybe you could trick her.

 

You know, when you're not in bed sometime, just give her a foot rub, or a back rub, a non-sexual massage, just get her used to being touched by you.

 

thanks man... yes, but she thinks I want sex anyway. Doesn't work.

[giotto]

I've had these thoughts going around in my head lately... if she's ill, shouldn't I - as her husband - be there to support her? Am I being too harsh? Selfish? Shouldn't I help to find the right recovery path? Even if she doesn't want therapy, that's her right, isn't it? She is ill, so she should choose the best way of dealing with it. Is it right to make her suffer even more? Shouldn't I just accept it? Don't know what to think anymore.

[denise_xo]

I've had these thoughts going around in my head lately... if she's ill, shouldn't I - as her husband - be there to support her? Am I being too harsh? Selfish? Shouldn't I help to find the right recovery path? Even if she doesn't want therapy, that's her right, isn't it? She is ill, so she should choose the best way of dealing with it. Is it right to make her suffer even more? Shouldn't I just accept it? Don't know what to think anymore.

 

There's a difference between choosing the best way to deal with something, and choosing to not deal with it at all. You can support her, but you can't do it for her. A relationship consists of two people, so she should also be supportive of your needs.

 

Having followed your threads for a while, I personally think she needs a little 'earth quake' to wake her up and take charge of the situation.

[TaraMaiden]

I've had these thoughts going around in my head lately... if she's ill, shouldn't I - as her husband - be there to support her?

 

Is she 'ill'...?

what 'illness' does she have?

Does she acknowledge she's ill?

does she know treatment is available?

Has she sought treatment herself for this illness?

What is her attitude to it?

Does she see the destructive element as far as her marriage is concerned?

 

 

Am I being too harsh? Selfish? Shouldn't I help to find the right recovery path?

Have you never discussed this with her?

Have you ever suggested a recovery path?

Have you never been supportive of the idea?

Is this something you haven't considered doing before?

 

Even if she doesn't want therapy, that's her right, isn't it?

Absolutely. Everyone has a perfect right to deal with their own issues as they want.

Of course, if these decisions impact other family members, you have to find the fine line between entitled independence, and selfish apathy...If the addressing of issues - or otherwise - has a serious chronic impact on other aspects of your interaction with close family members and loved ones, then you have to consider what really to do for the greater good. There comes a time when a personal illness, stops being 'personal'....

 

She is ill, so she should choose the best way of dealing with it. Is it right to make her suffer even more? Shouldn't I just accept it? Don't know what to think anymore.

 

this is why people have been advising you to 'get away' form the immediate environment - because the constant closeness is going to muddle your viewpoint. Talk about not seeing the wood for the trees.

Ask yourself what her own role in the suffering, she's taken.

How much of it is self-imposed and driven by her own desire to move on from what ails her?

where is it written that you - have to take responsibility - for HER own inaction?

[giotto]

There's a difference between choosing the best way to deal with something, and choosing to not deal with it at all. You can support her, but you can't do it for her. A relationship consists of two people, so she should also be supportive of your needs.

 

 

yes, but I was think more on the lines of "we are married, so I shouldn't give up". Maybe I'm giving up too easily? I suppose these are my old guilt feelings...

[giotto]

I don't think this is impacting much on the other family members. It's just me, really. We have discussed it ad nauseam. But, as I said above, maybe I'm giving my marriage up too easily? How can she fix herself now if I withdraw all support? Ok, I do feel terribly guilty about this. It must be this...

 

Is she 'ill'...?

what 'illness' does she have?

Does she acknowledge she's ill?

does she know treatment is available?

Has she sought treatment herself for this illness?

What is her attitude to it?

Does she see the destructive element as far as her marriage is concerned?

 

 

 

Have you never discussed this with her?

Have you ever suggested a recovery path?

Have you never been supportive of the idea?

Is this something you haven't considered doing before?

 

 

Absolutely. Everyone has a perfect right to deal with their own issues as they want.

Of course, if these decisions impact other family members, you have to find the fine line between entitled independence, and selfish apathy...If the addressing of issues - or otherwise - has a serious chronic impact on other aspects of your interaction with close family members and loved ones, then you have to consider what really to do for the greater good. There comes a time when a personal illness, stops being 'personal'....

 

 

 

this is why people have been advising you to 'get away' form the immediate environment - because the constant closeness is going to muddle your viewpoint. Talk about not seeing the wood for the trees.

Ask yourself what her own role in the suffering, she's taken.

How much of it is self-imposed and driven by her own desire to move on from what ails her?

where is it written that you - have to take responsibility - for HER own inaction?

[TaraMaiden]

Have you stopped to think that once you withdraw 'all support' - that's when she'll decide it's time to fix herself?

Maybe you haven't been supportive.

Maybe you've been 'enabling' her condition.

 

while you're there and taking it on the chin - why should she do anything, if you seem to be living there, complicitly accepting matters as they stand? Why make that effort, when you're obviously not complaining by doing anything to precipitate it...?

 

Actions, actions, actions.

 

they hablano mucho.

[giotto]

Have you stopped to think that once you withdraw 'all support' - that's when she'll decide it's time to fix herself?

Maybe you haven't been supportive.

Maybe you've been 'enabling' her condition.

 

while you're there and taking it on the chin - why should she do anything, if you seem to be living there, complicitly accepting matters as they stand? Why make that effort, when you're obviously not complaining by doing anything to precipitate it...?

 

Actions, actions, actions.

 

they hablano mucho.

 

ok, ok, you have a point. Still, can't help feeling guilty about it... I suppose withdrawing the support might shock her into action. Maybe... I still don't think it will work... it will just make her more miserable.

[TaraMaiden]

Guilt is a huge disabling factor.

it stops people moving in the right direction because it hangs around your neck like a mill-stone.

It's natural you should feel that way - but simply because you feel guilt, it doesn't mean you're taking the wrong steps.

I understand the guilt - but you've been dancing to a tune, played by another piper, for so long, that finally choreographing your own steps, now seems disloyal and alien.

 

Just reverse it.

how loyal has she been?

How far has she met you, towards the middle, to try to rectify the situation?

It's give and take - but who's been giving - and who's been taking?

 

So why is now 'taking back' something to feel so much guilt over?