Wife with OCD now refusing therapy...

[giotto]

There is no 'wrong' or 'right' because every situation is different - but what I can tell you, and I know it's the best piece of advice I could ever give you - is to not let your emotions make your practical decisions for you.

Make sure that whatever you do, it's fuelled by rational and logical, sensible thought.

Don't be emotionally 'pulled' into doing something, or agreeing to something, because your guilt-guitar is being played.

 

sure, there is room for sentiment, but don't be sentimental to your detriment.

 

I'll try...

[giotto]

I ended up telling her that I was sleeping in my office permanently because our "sex life" was unbearable to me and I could not take it anymore. I also said she could come and visit me if and when she felt like sex. She said ok. I know this is never going to happen.

 

I feel great relief. I don't have to put up with that crap anymore. The ball is in her court. I guess she will never have sex again in her life. I don't mind the arrangement at all. I'm not looking for a new relationship. I only want to concentrate on myself, my kids and my work. After that, I'll decide what I really want to do with my life.

 

I'm sure many of you will disagree with my decision, but I feel this the best solution at the moment.

[TaraMaiden]

Gradually, place distance between the two of you.

Begin to lead an independent life, and pull away from joint occasions and family-run affairs.... that will help you create the break.

If you don't want to do something - then don't do it.

 

Simple.

Don't let any gun be held to your head - emotional or otherwise.

If she doesn't want to be a part of your existence, there is nothing on the planet that dictates you should be a part of hers....

[giotto]

Gradually, place distance between the two of you.

Begin to lead an independent life, and pull away from joint occasions and family-run affairs.... that will help you create the break.

If you don't want to do something - then don't do it.

 

Simple.

Don't let any gun be held to your head - emotional or otherwise.

If she doesn't want to be a part of your existence, there is nothing on the planet that dictates you should be a part of hers....

 

Will do that... the thing is, she wants me to be part of her existence, but she is not prepared to go 100% on it, or at least not anymore. She's complained endlessly in the past that I didn't take part in the family life (apart from being nice to my kids and cooking for them - and her - every single day). And I have explained to her many many time that, without feeling that we are a proper couple, I don't feel we are a family either. I can't pretend. I even said this when we were having counselling.

 

The problem is that she hates conflict and she hates the guilt feeling she gets when she sees me unhappy. She knows it's her fault. But she can't give me what would make me happy: sex, intimacy, connection. She asked me once what she could do to make me happy. I told her: sex and intimacy. She said, no, not that one. She wants me to accept the status quo and be happy with the situation, so she doesn't have to bear the guilt and she doesn't have to get into conflict. If she communicated properly with me, I would have divorced her ages ago. Unfortunately, I didn't know what was going on, so I spent years trying to find out. I have now, after 15 years of searching for answers, thinking it was all my fault. Not anymore.

[TaraMaiden]

Will do that... the thing is, she wants me to be part of her existence, but she is not prepared to go 100% on it, or at least not anymore. She's complained endlessly in the past that I didn't take part in the family life (apart from being nice to my kids and cooking for them - and her - every single day). And I have explained to her many many time that, without feeling that we are a proper couple, I don't feel we are a family either. I can't pretend. I even said this when we were having counselling.

Well this time you have to say it, mean it and DO it. all the time,

This damn"Actions speak louder than words" stuff, it's true... you have to put your money where your mouth is and walk it, hun....

 

The problem is that she hates conflict and she hates the guilt feeling she gets when she sees me unhappy. She knows it's her fault. But she can't give me what would make me happy: sex, intimacy, connection.

Well, then sorry - but that's her bag of sh.it to carry - it's her doing, her guilt - and nothing, anywhere, says you have to lighten the load, if she's loading it with rocks....

 

She asked me once what she could do to make me happy. I told her: sex and intimacy. She said, no, not that one. She wants me to accept the status quo and be happy with the situation, so she doesn't have to bear the guilt and she doesn't have to get into conflict.

 

isn't this precisely what dumpers do, when they say they want to be friends, touch base, see how you are.....?

They want something to reassure them they're off the hook, but that they don't have to do anything to be let off that hook....

 

If she communicated properly with me, I would have divorced her ages ago. Unfortunately, I didn't know what was going on, so I spent years trying to find out. I have now, after 15 years of searching for answers, thinking it was all my fault. Not anymore.

No. Your responsibility just lies in having taken it for so long, without any decisive action on your part, which in her eyes, has been a virtual acceptance, and complicit agreement to the status quo.....

As you say - not any more.

[giotto]

Can I just say that I tried the separation thing, without getting anywhere? I was still in the phase where I wanted to be with her, so I caved in and we got back together, with the usual promises. At the time I didn't know the reason. This time I'm doing it for me. I have no desire to get back together. If she still wants sex, she can ask me. Maybe she will realise what it feels like. I doubt it, though. I still think she is a great mother and she has many positive qualities, but being a good wife is not one of them.

[TaraMaiden]

Can I just say that I tried the separation thing, without getting anywhere? I was still in the phase where I wanted to be with her, so I caved in and we got back together, with the usual promises. At the time I didn't know the reason.

If there's no clear definite reasoning in your mind, no plan, and no procedure, then no, you're right, it's not going to work....

 

This time I'm doing it for me. I have no desire to get back together. If she still wants sex, she can ask me. Maybe she will realise what it feels like. I doubt it, though. I still think she is a great mother and she has many positive qualities, but being a good wife is not one of them.

We've al got great qualities. Hell, Mother Teresa, Gandhi, Genghis Khan and even Hitler, doubtless all had 'positive qualities' but it didn't make them automatically 100% compatible with their nearest and dearest.... Sometimes, even the most wonderful people drive us nuts. I must even get on your nerves sometimes.... Strange, yet true....

 

[denise_xo]

Hi giotto,

I'm glad you're taking some steps for yourself. You really have tried everything. I would push for divorce if I were you, although I understand that you have a lot of practical issues to solve with regard to that. Part of that process might have to be that your wife reconsiders her working hours to fit the new reality.

 

Good luck to you and all the best.

[giotto]

Hi giotto,

I'm glad you're taking some steps for yourself. You really have tried everything. I would push for divorce if I were you, although I understand that you have a lot of practical issues to solve with regard to that. Part of that process might have to be that your wife reconsiders her working hours to fit the new reality.

 

Good luck to you and all the best.

 

Thanks... but she can't change her shifts right now. She would have to find a new job. I don't want that. Although we have problems, she loves her job and I wouldn't want to deprive her of something she loves.

[KathyM]

As long as you are still living under the same roof and still providing her with your services, then nothing will change. You moving to the office is not going to change anything. Living as roommates and having an affair behind her back is not the honorable way to go, and will be teaching your kids the wrong lesson. I suggest you move out temporarily and let her know you can't live as roommates, and that you want a wife, not a roommate, and that when and if she realizes she wants an actual marriage as well and is willing to do the work to repair your relationship, then she'll know where to find you.

[giotto]

As long as you are still living under the same roof and still providing her with your services, then nothing will change. You moving to the office is not going to change anything. Living as roommates and having an affair behind her back is not the honorable way to go, and will be teaching your kids the wrong lesson. I suggest you move out temporarily and let her know you can't live as roommates, and that you want a wife, not a roommate, and that when and if she realizes she wants an actual marriage as well and is willing to do the work to repair your relationship, then she'll know where to find you.

 

I'm not trying to get her back. I'm done. I'm doing it for myself. And I'm not going to have an affair. If there is the possibility, we agreed I would tell her. I don't see why I should move out. And I love my office!

[Radu]

If there's no clear definite reasoning in your mind, no plan, and no procedure, then no, you're right, it's not going to work....

 

 

We've al got great qualities. Hell, Mother Teresa, Gandhi, Genghis Khan and even Hitler, doubtless all had 'positive qualities' but it didn't make them automatically 100% compatible with their nearest and dearest.... Sometimes, even the most wonderful people drive us nuts. I must even get on your nerves sometimes.... Strange, yet true....

 

 

Your sarcastic self is not exactly ... endearing.

[TaraMaiden]

Can you put your clothes and own stuff in there?

Does it have its own shower/bathroom?

Can you lock it and leave independently?

 

I'm thinking 'annexe' here... you know, like the little parent apartments people have in their gardens or attached to their properties, but they have independent entrances....

[giotto]

Your sarcastic self is not exactly ... endearing.

 

lol... I don't think Tara Maiden ever got on my nerves, I must say...

[KathyM]

I'm not trying to get her back. I'm done. I'm doing it for myself. And I'm not going to have an affair. If there is the possibility, we agreed I would tell her. I don't see why I should move out. And I love my office!

So trying to get your marriage back on track is off the table, huh? *shrugs* Sorry to hear that. I think if your wife experiences life without you, she would appreciate you more and be more apt to try to get you back and do what it takes to get you back. But I do have to say that I respect you for being an honest and honorable man. And for being such a good dad to your kids. I hope it works out for you. I just think your wife would appreciate you more if she experienced having to live without you.

[TaraMaiden]

Your sarcastic self is not exactly ... endearing.

 

 

giotto and I go back a long way. and I know what he's been through, having had the same experience myself.

 

It wasn't sarcasm, it was humour.

 

Sarcasm would have been if I'd told him he gets on my nerves sometimes.

 

Which, he doesn't, I might add.

[giotto]

Can you put your clothes and own stuff in there?

Does it have its own shower/bathroom?

Can you lock it and leave independently?

 

I'm thinking 'annexe' here... you know, like the little parent apartments people have in their gardens or attached to their properties, but they have independent entrances....

 

We do have one of those, funnily enough. But it's got no Internet connection and my daughter is using it. My clothes are not in our bedroom and I can use the family bathroom. Our bedroom has its own bathroom, so she uses that. My little daughter has been keeping her company. In fact, I've been sleeping in my office for the last few weeks, since I have back-ache and the mattress in my bed here is much better. So, no big change.

 

After spending time in a marital bed on holiday with her, I was reminded how awful really is to be in the same bed as your wife and having to behave in a total asexual way. It's just not right.

[giotto]

So trying to get your marriage back on track is off the table, huh? *shrugs* Sorry to hear that. I think if your wife experiences life without you, she would appreciate you more and be more apt to try to get you back and do what it takes to get you back. But I do have to say that I respect you for being an honest and honorable man. And for being such a good dad to your kids. I hope it works out for you. I just think your wife would appreciate you more if she experienced having to live without you.

 

we did separate in the past and we got very close to divorce. Didn't change anything, because she is not prepared to change. When we got back together, she promised she would go to therapy, to fix herself and our marriage. On holiday she tells me nothing will ever change and she is not going. So, well, that's it for me!

[jimloveslips]

You've had some great replies (I haven't read them all or your answers to them) but one thing that did seem to keep cropping up was your preoccupation with sex, or rather the lack of it.

 

This sounds so unreasonably bullying, to be expecting a physical release from someone who is evident experiencing severe mental problems.

 

I don't believe in god so this is in no way an accusation that you are abandoning your faith, but you made a commitment to this person, and your kid(s).

 

I'm unsure how you wifes illness is affecting your kid(s) - to be honest that would be a far great concern for me than how it affected my life if I was in the same situation...

 

Now this may conflict with your religious views but I see no reason why you can't be as happy (as anyone can possibly be) with your life living it as essentially separate from your wife, yet within the same household. I don't know your resources so maybe that is not possible, but I see no reason why you can't attend to your kid(s) needs as a loving father, and indeed to that of your suffering wife and still be happily fulfilled emotional and physically with someone else. How you go about this is entirely your own affair (no pun intended).

 

You need to get out and have a little fun, break the cycle of entrapment your situation is imposing.

 

 

You can step aside and take the easy way out, but I think the example you would be setting for your children is a deplorable one, and what's more I don't think you would ever be truly happy if you made that decision.

 

I hate to say this as it is so trite, but life really sucks, but there are always people worse off than you who don't give in, and they are better people for it.

 

If you wife is so seriously ill, you need to make medical decisions on her behalf, (there are so many factors here that are unknown - I assume your wife has a doctor who is fully cognizant of her choice to refuse therapy?) some that may be as difficult as what you are going through now, but abandoning her will shame you, not amongst your peers or neighbors (who knows what lives each of us endures?) and frankly who cares what they think anyway, but you and your kid(s) will know.

 

I hate the phrase "What doesn't kill you..." (and I'm a Darwinian!) but there is a corollary to it: What you don't take on, weakens you.

 

You'll regret not doing more, to help you wife, to help your kid(s), and in so doing help yourself...

[TaraMaiden]

It's like sleeping next to a nun. Or in my case, monk.

 

"Awkward" doesn't cover it.

 

Forget 'elephant in the room'.... how about 'elephant right here in bed, with us'....?!

[giotto]

You've had some great replies (I haven't read them all or your answers to them) but one thing that did seem to keep cropping up was your preoccupation with sex, or rather the lack of it.

 

This sounds so unreasonably bullying, to be expecting a physical release from someone who is evident experiencing severe mental problems.

 

I don't believe in god so this is in no way an accusation that you are abandoning your faith, but you made a commitment to this person, and your kid(s).

 

I'm unsure how you wifes illness is affecting your kid(s) - to be honest that would be a far great concern for me than how it affected my life if I was in the same situation...

 

Now this may conflict with your religious views but I see no reason why you can't be as happy (as anyone can possibly be) with your life living it as essentially separate from your wife, yet within the same household. I don't know your resources so maybe that is not possible, but I see no reason why you can't attend to your kid(s) needs as a loving father, and indeed to that of your suffering wife and still be happily fulfilled emotional and physically with someone else. How you go about this is entirely your own affair (no pun intended).

 

You need to get out and have a little fun, break the cycle of entrapment your situation is imposing.

 

 

You can step aside and take the easy way out, but I think the example you would be setting for your children is a deplorable one, and what's more I don't think you would ever be truly happy if you made that decision.

 

I hate to say this as it is so trite, but life really sucks, but there are always people worse off than you who don't give in, and they are better people for it.

 

If you wife is so seriously ill, you need to make medical decisions on her behalf, (there are so many factors here that are unknown - I assume your wife has a doctor who is fully cognizant of her choice to refuse therapy?) some that may be as difficult as what you are going through now, but abandoning her will shame you, not amongst your peers or neighbors (who knows what lives each of us endures?) and frankly who cares what they think anyway, but you and your kid(s) will know.

 

I hate the phrase "What doesn't kill you..." (and I'm a Darwinian!) but there is a corollary to it: What you don't take on, weakens you.

 

You'll regret not doing more, to help you wife, to help your kid(s), and in so doing help yourself...

 

she is functioning perfectly well with ADs. They control her OCD very well. She likes sex and she she has no problem orgasming. She just has a mental block about it. She should get CBT to sort het OCD out, but she is afraid. I don't know what her doctor is suggesting. Possibly nothing. She is happy on them. So, she is fine, I'm not.

[giotto]

I even ended up taking ADs myself, to alleviate my depression and reduce my libido. Yes, I've done that! That's how much I wanted to stay in this marriage. I'm off ADs (over 5 years) and it's about time I start thinking about myself.

[KathyM]

we did separate in the past and we got very close to divorce. Didn't change anything, because she is not prepared to change. When we got back together, she promised she would go to therapy, to fix herself and our marriage. On holiday she tells me nothing will ever change and she is not going. So, well, that's it for me!

See, there was your mistake--you got back together with the promise of therapy, but there was no follow through. She did realize she missed you and how much she wanted you back, but when she got you back, it was business as usual. You should have gone through therapy and made sure progress was made before getting back together.

[giotto]

See, there was your mistake--you got back together with the promise of therapy, but there was no follow through. She did realize she missed you and how much she wanted you back, but when she got you back, it was business as usual. You should have gone through therapy and made sure progress was made before getting back together.

 

you are absolutely right... I tend to believe people when they promise things to me. Because I stick to them. Another mistake.

[giotto]

So trying to get your marriage back on track is off the table, huh? *shrugs* Sorry to hear that. I think if your wife experiences life without you, she would appreciate you more and be more apt to try to get you back and do what it takes to get you back. But I do have to say that I respect you for being an honest and honorable man. And for being such a good dad to your kids. I hope it works out for you. I just think your wife would appreciate you more if she experienced having to live without you.

 

thanks... I think you are right, again. The thing is, for her to be able to experience that, it would mean another sacrifice for me. Moving out and missing out on the kids. Well, no thanks!