So incredibly Stuck

[Flagirl2]

Fair enough.

 

What is holding you back from filing for D then?

What's the hang-up here?

 

And you should really ask the MOM if he wants the same thing.

Methinks there is a hang up there - I also think you know it.

Care to elaborate?

 

He does want the same thing. He actually thinks it is more of a reality than I do. He takes things very serious and is calculated in everything he does. I, on the other hand, think it's just future faking. It all sounds wonderful, but I don't see it happening. I have told him that a few times and he got so angry with me, I do not mention it anymore.

 

What is holding me back from filing for a D? My children, my home, my comfort, fear of the unknown, fear of if this is the right decision. I'm just scared either way. I am scared to be out of the A and I'm scared to be in the A.

[Owl]

I do think he would end the M if I told him. He knows AP. I don't think he would forgive that. So, telling him would be the end of the M.

 

OK...well given what you've described...what's wrong with that?

 

Wouldn't that be a step in the direction you appear to be headed in anyway?

 

Ending the marriage would be one half of the relationships dissolved that need to be in order for you and MM to "be together". It also frees your H up to find someone he's more suited to be with (if he wants to).

 

It also creates one more place you can "be honest" in.

 

No more lies, no more hiding.

[Flagirl2]

OK...well given what you've described...what's wrong with that?

 

Wouldn't that be a step in the direction you appear to be headed in anyway?

 

Ending the marriage would be one half of the relationships dissolved that need to be in order for you and MM to "be together". It also frees your H up to find someone he's more suited to be with (if he wants to).

 

It also creates one more place you can "be honest" in.

 

No more lies, no more hiding.

 

There has to be a reason why I can't do it right now. I can't find it but it's there. I just don't know what it is. What if I'm wrong? What if my H was the one for me and I didn't give it a chance. What if I gave up too quickly just as he did?

 

And now it just hit me. If I can be honest, it's with all of you. I guess I don't make the first move in getting a D because what if my OM doesn't go through with it and there I am left. That is why I do not do it. That is what is holding me back.

[jwi71]

He does want the same thing. He actually thinks it is more of a reality than I do. He takes things very serious and is calculated in everything he does. I, on the other hand, think it's just future faking. It all sounds wonderful, but I don't see it happening. I have told him that a few times and he got so angry with me, I do not mention it anymore.

 

What is holding me back from filing for a D? My children, my home, my comfort, fear of the unknown, fear of if this is the right decision. I'm just scared either way. I am scared to be out of the A and I'm scared to be in the A.

 

Ok, you both want the same thing but no one is ACTING on it.

 

Do you know why he hasn't filed for D?

 

Have you asked him that? What was said?

 

Or has he?

 

I wonder if he thinks the same as you - that he files and you don't.

 

And as far as change goes (lifestyle, kids, home etc)...isn't that the GOAL?

 

From a material perspective, the change would be short lived. You would be single mom for awhile then, after getting M to OM, it would be back to normal from a money perspective. And really, isvthevprice of happiness measured so easily? In terms of money or cars or house or fancy doo-dads? If so, what's your price? Should be easy to calculate...

 

Except that's not it.

 

You worry about your kids. Depending on a 1000 variables, it will affect them greatly or not at all. What do YOU think? What does your IC think?

 

There is a way out. A simple one really.

 

File for D. It likely won't be a shock to anyone - kids included.

 

Are you certain you want the MOM?

[Owl]

There has to be a reason why I can't do it right now. I can't find it but it's there. I just don't know what it is. What if I'm wrong? What if my H was the one for me and I didn't give it a chance. What if I gave up too quickly just as he did?

 

And now it just hit me. If I can be honest, it's with all of you. I guess I don't make the first move in getting a D because what if my OM doesn't go through with it and there I am left. That is why I do not do it. That is what is holding me back.

 

OK...this may be fair for YOU...but larger picture, is this fair to your H? To the family that you've admitted you're not really "with" even when you're home?

 

Why CAN'T you do it right now? Because you're afraid of change? Because of what you might lose?

 

Those things...change, loss...became inevitable when you began the affair. You engaged in activity that WILL result in pain, turmoil, confusion for everyone involved. It's not if...it's when.

 

What I really think you need to do is to face that pain. See it. Feel it. Know that you created it.

 

It will get you over your longing for MM like nothing else can. It will FORCE you to change your focus, to fix the things that are broken in your life...or let them go to heal on their own.

 

Change is scarey...I get that.

 

But right now, your focus is solely on yourself, and what you're feeling for MM.

 

And that's not how you live life.

 

Not fair to you, to your family, to your H. Not fair to MM's wife and family either.

 

Either way....whatever way...you need to make change.

 

Or else...accept that you've chosen to be right where you're at right now. And deny anyone else their chance to have a say in what they would want as an outcome of this situation.

 

I won't push this further...I'll stop posting now to your thread. But I think this is a thought you really should spend some time on, and not dismiss out of hand because it hurts.

[Flagirl2]

Ok, you both want the same thing but no one is ACTING on it.

 

Do you know why he hasn't filed for D? He said it is happening any day now and I need to prepare myself.

 

Have you asked him that? What was said?

 

Or has he?

 

I wonder if he thinks the same as you - that he files and you don't. I don't think. He has never asked me to file first. I think he realizes his marriage is more over than mine. He always says that it is happening with or without me.

 

And as far as change goes (lifestyle, kids, home etc)...isn't that the GOAL?

 

From a material perspective, the change would be short lived. You would be single mom for awhile then, after getting M to OM, it would be back to normal from a money perspective. And really, isvthevprice of happiness measured so easily? In terms of money or cars or house or fancy doo-dads? If so, what's your price? Should be easy to calculate...

 

Except that's not it.

 

You worry about your kids. Depending on a 1000 variables, it will affect them greatly or not at all. What do YOU think? What does your IC think? I think my youngest would be effected, but I think she would be Ok. My IC is the one that thinks for right now, I should remain in both relationships as it is keeping me "happy" for right now.

 

There is a way out. A simple one really.

 

File for D. It likely won't be a shock to anyone - kids included.

 

Are you certain you want the MOM? I THINK so!!

 

I tried to answer these questions in bold. Thank you for posting them. They are giving me a lot to think about.

[Flagirl2]

Owl, THANK YOU! You have given me a lot to think about. I am finally thinking, not just going through the motions of my life waiting for something to change. I need to ask and answer these questions you have all posed to me. I really appreciate you words.

 

I guess I have some work to do on finding the answers to all these questions I should have been asking all along.

[whichwayisup]

My Therapist thought I should continue the A as it is giving me what my M is not and keeping me happy. When I saw her, I was physically ill. I had lost about 30 pounds and was skin and bones. She was concerned about my physical health so thought the A happiness kept me eating.

You need to find a new therapist.. She is doing MORE damage to you by encouraging you to stay. That's wrong. Why isn't she helping you get stronger by teaching you better coping skills so you can end this A for good and figure out what to do with your husband and marriage? I suggest finding a marriage counsellor who can help you fix things with your H or end things with your H. Cheating and using MM as a patch is not working. You know this now.

[veryhappy]

I doubt her therapist is encouraging her to continue. She probably just pointed out the good from the affair. A therapist is not supposed to tell you what to do with your life anyway, so I'd be suspicious to hear a therapist is pushing in one direction (except if it's religious counseling or similar, where you know what you're getting). I wouldn't be surprised if the therapist just acknoledged the good, and Flagirl was the one translating that into "the therapist told me to continue". My point is: chaces are the therapist is fine.

 

Flagirl2, being honest with us isn't the point (although we are obviosly hoping we're not wasting our tme here and you are honest). The point is to be honest with one of the parts involved in the triangle, either your H or your AP. You are both afraid and unsure, and you need to solve the uncertainty first. If your MM doesn't listen to you and your fears that you don't see yourself able to go through with it, how do you think him not listening will evolve in a full blown relationship? I'd try to make the AP listen, and if he doesn't listen...getting together is just the beginning. What will you do after that?

 

You do give off a little bit of a cake eater vibe; the dynamic seems reversed from most affairs'. You are the one stalling and he's the one pushing. If you don't want him, that's fine too. Maybe it's just an exit affair and you don't really want either of them.

 

If you feel there's something left in your marriage and want to make it work, end the affair and go to MC. Just based on what you say, it's just comfortable for both you and your H and maybe neither of you wants to be bothered to change things at this point. What would you feel if your H had a passionate affair with another woman? Jelousy, relief?

Edited August 7, 2012 by cutedragon

[whichwayisup]

I doubt her therapist is encouraging her to continue. She probably just pointed out the good from the affair. A therapist is not supposed to tell you what to do with your life anyway, so I'd be suspicious to hear a therapist is pushing in one direction (except if it's religious counseling or similar, where you know what you're getting). I wouldn't be surprised if the therapist just acknoledged the good, and Flagirl was the one translating that into "the therapist told me to continue". My point is: chaces are the therapist is fine.

 

Flagirl2, being honest with us isn't the point (although we are obviosly hoping we're not wasting our tme here and you are honest). The point is to be honest with one of the parts involved in the triangle, either your H or your AP. You are both afraid and unsure, and you need to solve the uncertainty first. If your MM doesn't listen to you and your fears that you don't see yourself able to go through with it, how do you think him not listening will evolve in a full blown relationship? I'd try to make the AP listen, and if he doesn't listen...getting together is just the beginning. What will you do after that?

 

You do give off a little bit of a cake eater vibe; the dynamic seems reversed from most affairs'. You are the one stalling and he's the one pushing. If you don't want him, that's fine too. Maybe it's just an exit affair and you don't really want either of them.

 

If you feel there's something left in your marriage and want to make it work, end the affair and go to MC. Just based on what you say, it's just comfortable for both you and your H and maybe neither of you wants to be bothered to change things at this point. What would you feel if your H had a passionate affair with another woman? Jelousy, relief?

 

My Therapist thought I should continue the A

 

To me, as the original poster quoted, this is the T telling her to continue the A. Unless OP can tell us she put her own spin on what the T told her, I have to believe what was encouraged.

[woinlove]

I doubt her therapist is encouraging her to continue. She probably just pointed out the good from the affair. A therapist is not supposed to tell you what to do with your life anyway, so I'd be suspicious to hear a therapist is pushing in one direction (except if it's religious counseling or similar, where you know what you're getting). I wouldn't be surprised if the therapist just acknoledged the good, and Flagirl was the one translating that into "the therapist told me to continue". My point is: chaces are the therapist is fine.

 

Flagirl2, being honest with us isn't the point (although we are obviosly hoping we're not wasting our tme here and you are honest). The point is to be honest with one of the parts involved in the triangle, either your H or your AP. You are both afraid and unsure, and you need to solve the uncertainty first. If your MM doesn't listen to you and your fears that you don't see yourself able to go through with it, how do you think him not listening will evolve in a full blown relationship? I'd try to make the AP listen, and if he doesn't listen...getting together is just the beginning. What will you do after that?

 

You do give off a little bit of a cake eater vibe; the dynamic seems reversed from most affairs'. You are the one stalling and he's the one pushing. If you don't want him, that's fine too. Maybe it's just an exit affair and you don't really want either of them.

 

If you feel there's something left in your marriage and want to make it work, end the affair and go to MC. Just based on what you say, it's just comfortable for both you and your H and maybe neither of you wants to be bothered to change things at this point. What would you feel if your H had a passionate affair with another woman? Jelousy, relief?

 

Flagirl said her therapist told her she thought Flagirl should continue the affair. Not all therapists are competent, so unless Flagirl corrects that information, I would assume that is what her therapist did. I agree with wwiu that a good therapist would be helping Flagirl get stronger and to learn better coping skills. Sounds to me like Flagirl needs and deserves a better therapist.

 

Flagirl, you should continue to feel completely stuck in a miserable pattern. It is possible you need medication, but it may just be unlearning bad behavior and thought processes and learning more useful ones. A good therapist can help with that.

[alexandria35]

I doubt her therapist is encouraging her to continue. She probably just pointed out the good from the affair. A therapist is not supposed to tell you what to do with your life anyway, so I'd be suspicious to hear a therapist is pushing in one direction (except if it's religious counseling or similar, where you know what you're getting). I wouldn't be surprised if the therapist just acknoledged the good, and Flagirl was the one translating that into "the therapist told me to continue". My point is: chaces are the therapist is fine.

 

 

But flagirl hasn't even been able to point out any good in the affair. She said it's consuming her life, she is not present for her kids, she is addicted. When she went to her therapist she was skin and bones and had lost 30 pounds and she was in the affair, so clearly the affair isn't doing anything good for her physical or her emotional health. Everything here points to this affair being very very bad for her. Why do you keep saying it's good for her health?

[Artie Lang]

it sounds like your marriage has been lacking for some time.

 

did the affair begin under the same circumstances?

 

by "physical dependency," do you mean sex?

 

 

re: working together

 

this is exactly why people are told they need to remove themselves from the immediate vicinity of their AP. it's obvious you can't keep your hands off each other- you need to make a move.

 

 

if you really want to put in an effort to salvage your marriage, you need to come clean.....a fresh start with everything on the table.

[Flagirl2]

Thank you all for your input so far. I do appreciate the positive and negative feedback.

 

My Therapist did actually say to continue the affair. I am getting my needs met by my AP that my H is not fulfilling and that is keeping me happy. Those were here words. So, we continued with sessions with me telling her of the ups and downs with AP, the fights, etc. She continued to still encourage the A. Then we moved on to try and find out what is wrong with me. I stopped going. I didn't think she was helping me at all. I went to her to help me get over my MM. We never really touched on that.

 

Artie, yes, the A started pretty much under the same circumstances. Me and MM both admitted that we loved each other during the time we were a part but some how we were able to stay a part. I don't think it's going to be possible this time. We are too attached. It's not physical dependency. We talk more by phone, email, text than we are physical. We are physical, yet, but it is much more than that. The dependency is to be constantly talking and wanting to be with each other in any capacity.

 

Yes, my M has been lacking for some time. I can't remember the last time we were physical.

[woinlove]

Thank you all for your input so far. I do appreciate the positive and negative feedback.

 

My Therapist did actually say to continue the affair. I am getting my needs met by my AP that my H is not fulfilling and that is keeping me happy. Those were here words. So, we continued with sessions with me telling her of the ups and downs with AP, the fights, etc. She continued to still encourage the A. Then we moved on to try and find out what is wrong with me. I stopped going. I didn't think she was helping me at all. I went to her to help me get over my MM. We never really touched on that.

 

Artie, yes, the A started pretty much under the same circumstances. Me and MM both admitted that we loved each other during the time we were a part but some how we were able to stay a part. I don't think it's going to be possible this time. We are too attached. It's not physical dependency. We talk more by phone, email, text than we are physical. We are physical, yet, but it is much more than that. The dependency is to be constantly talking and wanting to be with each other in any capacity.

 

Yes, my M has been lacking for some time. I can't remember the last time we were physical.

 

I'm sorry your IC was not useful. It is a big, important and positive step to seek out counselling and try to get help, and so it makes me angry to hear about incompetent therapists. Please, don't let it stop you from trying to find a better therapist, maybe trying to get a personal recommendation from someone you trust.

[Flagirl2]

I stopped going because she was divulging into things with my mother and my mother making me feel guilty. Which, yes, is the case and that is an issue I have but I did not think, at the time, that that was relevant to my AP and my M. She thought that my guilt issues are the reason that I couldn't leave my M. And that very well could be the case.

[Artie Lang]

if you feel you're "too far gone"- as far as the marriage is concerned -you need to divorce your husband. you can't keep stringing him along this way. you need to get out of this marriage.....like right now! whether you tell him the truth is up to you.

 

 

btw, your counseler is a total D-BAG! that is the most horrible advise i've ever heard. she's done a great disservice to her patients, if this is her recommendation concerning infidelity. FIRE HER!!!

[Artie Lang]

i just don't see how she recovers. it's clear she has checked-out of the marriage. how much longer is she going to string her husband along? the whole situation is wearing on her.

 

plus, her counselor is no help.

[scatterd]

I know you want your OM and have no connection with husband but I have to also wonder if you are not able to get connected because of the Affair. If your husband knew that would make you both work on your marriage or move on. Your husband also deserves to have choices with true information. Not telling and living this way would make anyone unhappy and loose weight. The only way your life will change is when the truth is told. At one point you both will be discovered any way. Your children would be happier to have their parents content and happy also even if you are not together. If you are still able to work and make it out in the world now is better then later. What if you became ill and had no way of getting out later. It sounds like you are staying for the security of what your husband offers. He would be crushed to know that. Leave because you want to improve your life. I hope you decide to come clean and have a new beginning. I wish the best for you and your family

[Artie Lang]

look, i'm all for her to "dig deep" but how much longer does her husband have to suffer within this sham of a marriag? is she gonna wait till Christmas to give him the gift that keeps on giving?

 

she's made up her mind concerning the state of her marriage.....end it, and start working on yourself in IC with a capable counselor.

[scatterd]

I also think it is unfair to her husband. Thats why I want her to come clean this would give her husband a choice and also improve her life. She wants to be with the OM and the only way that will happen is if she gets out.

[Flagirl2]

I am being unfair to my H. Yet, I don't want to hurt him. That is why I stay. I know he wouldn't be shocked to his core if I told him I was leaving, but he would be devastated, which I do not understand as he has given up on making things better as well. He is a good man, with a kind heart who deserves someone to give him more than I can. I just do not want to hurt him. Sometimes, I almost wish he would find someone else. I Hope for that. It's the coward in me.

[SoleMate]

To get out of this mess, do the following:

 

1) Fire the therapist who told you to continue the affair. That is terrible advice. There are other ways to boost your nutritional status that do not cause the collateral damage of an affair.

 

2) See a new mental health professional and ask to be evaluated for depression. I see many signs of it in your story.

 

3) Ask your mental health professional to help you end the affair.

 

3a) If needed, ask a job counselor and/or employment lawyer for how to rebuild your career.

 

4) Ask your mental health professional to help you rebuild your marriage. (Your husband is a good man who loves you and wants the M to work, so he's obviously a better bet than a MM who "traps" you in a workplace affair and is cruel to you during your times of better decision-making, aka NC.) Loveshack can also help with this, as can Willard Harley.

 

You can see the pattern.....I think you need competent professional advice to replace your own foggy thinking and the cr*p advice of your "therapist". It will be worth it. Good luck!

[scatterd]

{I am being unfair to my H. Yet, I don't want to hurt him. That is why I stay.}

 

You may not know this but when you cheat your partner can feel that something is going on. Your Husband is already hurting and a good man does not deserve to be lied to. If you do not want to hurt him then stop your affair and come clean. Let him decide what he wants to do. I am wondering why you think you need to protect him when you are not by cheating. Do you know for sure what you want? Do you want to be with the other man or are you confused? Find a new counselor that will help you and I would start finding one now. You are going to need one. We can help with support but a professional can help you with deeper issues.

[woinlove]

Perhaps you should consider returning to her then and continue your therapy. She seems to understand where the core of your issues lie.

 

I think the counsellor telling her to stay in the A even though she wants to end it is irresponsible. Secret affairs, here involving 2 MP and multiple children, are risky and one cannot predict what the fallout will be if the secret is discovered - a lot of people, including children, could be damaged by the fallout. The counsellor may not care about that risk, but, to me, that shows just how irresponsible and incompetent she is. I would not return to a therapist who wanted me to continue in high risk behavior after I told her I wanted to end it.