The money & children...useage & pawns.

[spooky48]

Hi,

 

I'm writing in regards to a situation that is literally killing someone at my job I know but, I've been with that person through the thick & thin of this so, I was writing what I could possibly offer as other opinions, options regarding it. I just wanted to clarify this out in the open right here in the front.

 

Ok, recently the woman I know lended money to her sister so that she & her 4 kids could fly back from Hawaii to NJ. She signed a written contract that was composed by the woman I'll call Mary (the woman I know). Mary had clear indications of the contract. E-mails too, were sent stating from Mary's sister, that she would pay back all of the money in cash on a specific date. Mary's sister sent a divorce decree too, stating that she was divorcing her husband & she was moving back to NJ w/ her kids.

 

When she moved back, she moved in w/ a man she went to High School with she met w/on FB. She took $ from him to live off of since she had no car, job or furnishings/food/clothes to return to. She stayed w/the man from early June to the first week in July. She never divorced her husband. He ended up returning to move-in w/her & the kids w/out a job, car & receives SSI b/c of arthritic hands.

 

The first week of July, Mary had called her sister 4 times & gave her 8 additional days indicating if she did not pay her back the money in the additonal 8 day agreement then, she would take her to court.

 

I assisted Mary upon going to the Superior Court where we got the correct paperwork, completed them & paid for them as Certified Mail from the USPS. A court date was assigned w/ a docket # for the 3rd week of this month.

 

However, last Friday, Mary dropped the court case upon her parents wishes. She & them, discussed that this would be the very last time she would ever loan her sister money for everything. Her Mom told Mary to disregard her sister & never loan her a penny again.

 

About Mary: She is single, in her late 30s, never married, no kids, no college loans (paid off), no debts (is not a credit card abuser), frugal, works hard & never lives above her means. All of her bills are paid on time. She rents an apt. w/ a roommate to save $ & does not have a BF. She's independent & reliable.

 

About her sister who the $ was lent to: Age 31, married at 26 to a 46 y/o man at the time. Never held a job more than 6 months, dropped out of the military, dropped out of college, married a divorced man 20 years older who has 2 teenage daughters that live w/their Mom in HA & he pays still 1/2 for child support bills including college & car (money was split). He quit his job w/ his pension spent officially as of June 2011. He has not held a job since then. He is currently living back in NJ w/ his wife & 4 kids. He still does not work but, gets SSI in NJ now. She is currently working 5 days a week & he stays home w/ the kids while collecting that SSI check. They live now in a shabby apt. & rent a minivan weekly based upon her small salary.

 

However, here's the problem w/Mary. She's the only Aunt. However, her sister gets very, very angry & refuses at times to allow her to see her children especially on their b-days & holidays. She takes the children "away" & doesn't even bring them over to her parents house. It is very, very sad & depressing. Her parents though, could call or visit them but, w/ the strained relationship w/ the husband & his ways, it's just not feasible. Bottom line, Mary stated she uses the children as pawns.

 

1) I am asking seriously here what should Mary do?

 

2) Should she refile in court to get that money back or just follow what her parents said?

 

3) What about her relationship as the children's Aunt, how should she gain some type of visitation? How should she approach her sister CALMY & RATIONALLY about seeing the kids? How do should she tell her sister to STOP using the children as pawns?

 

4) What do I tell Mary to help her in that she (her sister) might quite possibly take the kids away again, God Forbid...it would break her parents heart (since they are their ONLY LIVING Grandparents)?

 

5) What about the upcoming holidays, etc? How does Mary & her parents get over being depressed if the sister does not bring the kids over?

 

Please, advise me & help as I am very grateful. Thank you.

[Confused in STL]

As a friend I would listen to her and encourage her. It must be a difficult time for her. Invite her over to have dinner. I would not try to solve her problems for her. But I would be someone she could share this with as she seeks to find her own answers.

[Radu]

It almost seems that Mary is a saint ... almost.

 

Have these things not bothered you in this whole story ?

- Mary is a late 30's woman, unmarried who lives with a roommate, it all seems so perfect but where is her mate.

I can understand if she is Asexual Aromantic or repressed lesbian but still ...

Other than that she looks perfect ... almost golden.

- her sister married a man 20yrs older than her. I am pro-women marrying older guys, but most of the times they do it because the guy has higher value. This guy sounds like no value.

And she has 4 kids with him.

- her sister jumps from support to support

The above 2 indicate low self-esteem btw.

- Mary's parents are grandparents only through Mary's sister but at their age they still haven't learned to suck it up and go and visit them.

The deed is done, the guy boinked and married their daughter.

- Mary is an aunt by her sister, her sister is in a very bad financial situation ...

Mary has her financial life sorted out.

Her sister is living paycheck to paycheck.

- the sister moved away, to Hawaii ffs.

Far far away.

 

 

I think Mary's parents pitted the two sisters against the other [their age difference is suspect too].

I think Mary was the golden child while her sister was made to feel like ****.

So she ended up with ****.

She sabotaged herself in college, in the military, ended up with what she could get [a much older guy which could indicate daddy issues], and popped kids for him, the thing she managed to do right in the end.

Like it or not, this is the situation, they have **** financial situation ... what is Mary gonna do with those few thousands dollars ?; she can't take it with her when she dies, nobody can.

 

If Mary could empathise with her sister's situation she would help her out ... not give her a handout but suing your sister when you are secure for just a few thousands dollars when the sister lives paycheck to paycheck to feed 4 kids ... is just plain ****ing wrong, can't you see that ?

 

It's a messed up family OP, though they may look normal on the surface, them waters run deep.

 

Neither of the 2 sisters asked to be born into this but now they are grownups, they can make their own decisions ... they can challenge their views of things.

Those 4 kids though ... what the hell did they do to deserve this ?

[spooky48]

Thanks for both of your responses.

 

What should Mary do now though? Just asking...

[Radu]

Are you Mary ?

 

Those 4 kids are innocent, they did not deserve this.

If she asks for her money through the Court system, they will ultimately pay, even though she is right to ask for the money.

[spooky48]

Are you Mary ?

 

Those 4 kids are innocent, they did not deserve this.

If she asks for her money through the Court system, they will ultimately pay, even though she is right to ask for the money.

 

No but, I do not think she should just wipe-away the debt her sister owes to her but, at the same time, they're living here in NJ and the sister constantly threatens Mary about filing a restraining order or a complaint if she puts one foot on her property. She's using them as pawns.

 

Let's be straight-honest here, Mary was screwed over but, you have to feel sorry & pity for her sister & her family at the same time. Should Mary just write-off the debt ? Mary told me she did. Then, she told me her parents advised her to & to see the nephews & niece when they are over their parents house & NOT to call or e-mail her. It is totally unfair to Mary, how is she supposed to see the kids? She can't just get in the car & drive states away & the sister never e-mails or calls. Holidays, are strained b/c the sister will not come over & bring them, she takes them to other places. However, the grandparents & Mary save the gifts & cards to give them usually after the holidays & birthdays. Mary is often called WAY after they aren't there.

 

I want to tell her to refile but, she sees how her sister is suffering w/ financial problems, an ex-wife, 2 bratty teens, and a bum of a husband who isn't working. Maybe it's best she just write-off the debt knowing that they're back & the Grandparents can still go see them.

 

As for Mary seeing the kids, she's just going to have to suffer in seeing them when she can or else what can she do? The sister WOULD be so harsh to possibly file a restraining order or complaint disallowing her from seeing her nephews & niece. We all know so, sad but true...

[2sure]

Loaning family money is risky exactly for the reasons you describe. Even if you have legal recourse - it costs you something else to force the repayment.

 

Mary clearly did not trust her sister when she loaned her the money.

Mary knew that her sister was coming to NJ & bringing her children to live with a man she met on line.

Mary decided to not file for repayment because her parents told her not to. Note that her parents didnt give the sister the money.

 

Mary is not without information. Mary is not surprised any of this is happening. Mary should not have loaned her sister the money and supported her sisters decision.

 

I get Mary is a saint. Then let her be.

Those of us that are not saints, dont let people repeatedly take advantage of us.

 

Mary should have hung onto her money , taken a vacation from her little shared apartment, to Hawaii , banged a hot guy, and said Hi to her sisters kids while she was there.

[xxoo]

Never loan money to family that you wouldn't give as a gift.

 

Mary should let the loan go, never loan money to her sister again, and tighten her boundaries. Mary can not control her sister, and should not try to do so. Her sister will use her children as she sees fit, but children grow and figure things out on their own. Trust that it will all work out.

[Radu]

The question is, what is her goal in all of this ?

Mary's i mean.

 

Does she want the money back or access to the kids ?

 

If it's the former, she needs to file.

 

If it's the latter, she can use the money as a bargaining chip in the negociations.

2 problems i can see with this :

- will her parents stand by and let her do this or will they intervene and give money to her sister to pay off the debt ?

- is her sister mature enough to understand that at some point Mary has power over her, or will she just not care about the potential damage to her children and say '**** it' and not play along ?

 

If Mary's parents will sit this one out and her sister is nuts, but only so far as repercusions start hitting her, than she has a good chance to negociate access to the kids in exchange for money ... not verbalized off-course, since that would make her seem a 'bad mother' to herself.

 

If Mary's parents will get involved, and i suspect they will because it does seem the golden child dynamic here, then using the money as a bargaining chip won't work because they will always bail her out.

 

---

 

The enemy here is not Mary's sister, but her parents.

There is only so much she can do, but those parents are NOT healthy.

And quite frankly, Mary's sister is raising 4 kids, has a husband who won't work, and is living paycheck to paycheck. I honestly doubt it that she could survive a visit from Social Services.

Also keep in mind that this loan has a stature of limitations, i hope she talked to a lawyer about it.

[spooky48]

To follow-up, I told Mary to just continue living her life the way she is but, do not lend her sister $ again. I thought her parent's idea of writing it off as one last debt & never lending $ again is the best advice.

 

As for her seeing her nephews & niece, I told her to either see them during the holidays IF they visit their grandparents (the parents then would call Mary to state they're over) or just to try & be cool about it. Maybe during later on, she could feel more comfortable in either e-mailing or calling her sister to arrange a time to meetup. If not (which is probably the case), just continue to pray for them in that their health, safety & welfare is properly taken care of.

 

If there's any other suggestions ANYONE here has about her seeing her nephews & niece, please, feel free to write or PM me.

 

Thanks.